Morrowind/Elder Scrolls leveling system

That would require them to actually make a good world with shit to do that would make you want to play the game, rather than just stringing the players along with "epic" stories

I love playing Daggerfall and Morrowind while ignoring the main story.

There's always lots of other shit to do, other smaller stories, but not a whole lot that would just keep you playing the game on it's own
And again, we're talking about modern bethesda, they can't even really do that anymore
The only thing they're good at anymore is marketing and branding, and based on Fallout 4, even they know that

They just need better writers and quest designers. Maybe bring back the old writers. Even Todd who used to design some of the quests and Imperial lore in Morrowind and Oblivion doesn't do it anymore. Kirkbride should be the lead writer again and Rolston should be the lead quest designer.

That's just it though, why hire better writers when the marketers they have already sell assloads of games
Who cares how good the games are if a better product wouldn't make them more money

because then the most efficient thing to do is no longer to level up by using your skills and playing the game but rather to kill ordinators with ranged weapons from rooftops and sell them to the scamp/mudcrab and become mega powerful in just a few hours

The only games that the main character in TES isn't a random bloke are Skyrim and Redguard, and Redguard has you playing Cyrus, who is a character of his own. Yet there is supposed to be a prophecy involved in each one, and Morrowind makes a very big deal about its prophecies. Notably the fact that the whole "you are a reincarnated dead guy" thing could be very well be bullshit, but even if it is, you're still the one who pulled it off.

i think the morrowind code patch fixes this

Just the neat little things that you can do as a mage in morrowind make it a good game which is nice since everything else is shit

mostly just flying

The scamp and mudcrab are easter eggs tho.

Yeah I dislike the "chosen" crap too. Probably the only thing I dislike about Morrowind other than the RNG combat. And regarding redguard, I wish they'd remake it or make a similar game. The engine was outdated as hell but I had fun playing it.

I was thinking having to read all the books in a series or by an author, visit certain locations or use a specific weapon on a creature or on someone trained in the use of another weapon as directed in a training manual or told in a short story.

Books are great for helping to explore but with skills it's just a static message and a passive activity with no involvement from the player. You can't learn a new weapon technique or a speechcraft skill that only applies to a certain race or faction.

For this to work you'd have to have a skill tree not a number that goes up. For example blocking against a spear, sword or projectiles would all be different.

You mean the boring activity of grinding is made worse because there is a limit on what trainers can teach you every level so you end up spamming shitty spells and weapons to maximize weapons.
Grinding hasn't been a problem in WRPGs for a long time. I guess the fact that Bethesda brought it back is kind of impressive.

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Only in Skyrim.

In oblivion too.
Have you actually played any TES game apart from Morrowind?

Completely agreed, in every TES game I always make a personal mod that reduces cost of training significantly, removes training cap per level, and makes you gain no skill XP for performing skill actions otherwise. I think this kind of system is great because it makes you think carefully about how you spend your gold and gives you a lot more options of how to level rather than grinding.

My favorite leveling system in any game is the one in the "souls" games since it also has the added bonus of giving you incentive to stay at a certain level for multiplayer purposes and there's a nice risk/reward with wandering around with a shit ton of souls whereas in TES there's no reason not to hoard your dosh until you find a trainer.

I actually didn't like how the leveling system in Morrowind worked.
Every TES has a kinda shit level system to be honest.

There was a mod that fixed it, but it tended to crash the game because it overhauled how the game handled leveling up massively.
Having that mod finally work in a stable manner is one of the biggest reasons why i want OpenMW to be succesful.

If OpenMW gets finally finished we might get

-a better leveling system
-a completely reworked combat system
-shit tons of new features and graphical settings

Without the game shitting itself and/or requiring 5 million external tweaks.

Fixing combat in a Bethesda game is a pipe dream, it's something humanly impossible.

Can you not read?
He's talking about OpenMW

Which will play exactly like Morrowind. And Morrowind combat is shit and unfixable.

The less "other RPGs" take after morrowind the better.

It's unfixable in vanilla because the animation system wouldn't support extensions. A new engine solves that.

Leveling by repeatedly using the skill is a shitty gimmick mechanic.

The main problem isn't even the animations, it's the fact they decided to take the mechanics of a dungeon crawler in the vein of Wizardry, stick them in real time, add combat moves on top and have everything rely on to-hit chances and stats.

It's an inherently flawed setup that tries to be many things but fails at most of them. One solution I can see is to completely remove the to-hit chances, but then you run into the problem that the game was never designed to facilitate any kind of combat that isn't about gluing yourself to an opponent and spamming the attack button.

That's why I keep saying there is no fixing it, or at least no fix that won't break something else in the process.

Don't go telling those morons that locking yourself in a bedroom and casting a shitty spell over and over to become a master of this school of magic is a terrible game design.

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Stop clicking like a retard and manage your stamina.
For god's sake.

Where did he say he finds morrowind combat hard or too complex?

A fix is going to mean a complete rebuilding of the combat system, yeah. I don't know what it might look like.

Morrowind is full of those. Most of the mechanics in the game are awful.

This. Bethesda is trash kill youself

You don't understand what OpenMW is and what modders can actually do within OpenMW compared to Morrowind.
Please read up on it and inform yourself.

openmw.org/faq/

They'll try to ape Dark Souls (like they did in Skyrim), it will fail. They will try to up the difficulty, damage dealt and received and number of enemies, it will fail (like in Skyrim), they will try to "fix" the AI, and that too will fail (like in Skyrim).

Just go look up any and all combat mods for Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyirm, after 10+ years nobody has yet figured out a way to make the combat not shit, because there is no fixing it, and the game isn't really built to handle any other kind of combat anyway.

Give Holla Forums a call once your lord and messiah OpenMW is actually fully done and has "fixed" all of that shit.

morrowinds skill system was broken, Alchemy was an OP skill, basically gave you infinite money because crafting resources respawn and the ability to over buff skills so that nothing costs money anymore.

I really hope that OpenMW removes that exploit because its a pretty bad one. Other than that though I agree with OP.

But I felt that Neocron 1s leveling system was a better derivative of Morrowinds system because it levels up not through combat but through just doing that skill over and over (so its possible to go to the shooting ranges and level up for hours, there was no incentive to grind).

Star Wars Galaxies is also a close contender for a great system. Its a shame the combat skills were all grind based.

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inb4 "since when it's cool to hate on morrowind

OpenMW isn't a project to "fix" Morrowind.
Please inform yourself using the link that i provided.

I swear, it's like everyone on Holla Forums is 12 and doesn't understand jack shit about technology.

wew lad, so is fucking Unity. I don't see people falling over themselves to make free games with Unity, nor do I imagine OpenMW will be anything but be a stable platform for Morrowind modding.

It's a free engine. Are you really so stupid that you think this is somehow special or unique?

OpenMW does nothing different from the vanilla engine, other than being more stable and being tweakable in ways the original engine isn't
It's not meant to fix mechanics
It's about giving people the openings to go in and fix whatever they want to fix

What comeback is needed when you only talk about
?

Okay fam.

dumb as stumps

You people are LEGIT fucking dumb, aren't you?

If I were dumb I'd play morrowind.

Seems to me you're the imbecile here. Three separate anons keep telling you that having a free engine based on the Morrowind one isn't some magical fixall for the game and you still keep spregging out and using tumblr-tier "arguments" and insults.

Yes, it's pretty neat there will be a new free engine for people to use, but no, it's not going to magically make Morrowind not play like shit.

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I don't think you understood my post.
I'm trying to explain to these retards that OpenMW is not meant to fix whatever "exploit" any person thinks is broken
It's meant to be an opensource replacement for the vanilla engine, so that there is opportunity for people to tweak whatever they want, and not be limited to just fiddling with resources and assets.

Not according to their site :)
see

It's not magical, but it will have the potential to fix so much more than what was possible in vanilla. It's just about people wanting to put the work in.
Are you pretending to be dense about what a new engine like this will mean?

Do you know what an exploit is?

Yup.
I also know what a "fix" is.

thankyou.

Yeah the rest of these people are morons, the very goal for OpenMW was to improve on the actual game. They got normal maps, specular maps. They're talking about adding new features. That is out of the scope of just an open source engine for Morrowind, they are actually fixing the game, they even state their intent to fix the combat system eventually.

That's not their intent at all. It will be up to a modder to "fix" the combat. The engine is merely meant to facilitate such a "fix".
They've added engine support for normal maps and specular maps. It's up to modders to add these.

Which "broken exploits" does the website state OMW is fixing?

Some of their videos they showcase a few fixes to bugs, but then also note that some "purists" bitched about the fixes and so 1.0 will have the vanilla bugs intact, after 1.0 they will be pushing fixes. That's what I got from their in development videos. They have in fact fixed a lot of bugs and note that but will leave them broken for release. I suspect this is where everyone's getting confused because they are actively leaving fixes out from the initial release, that's not to say they haven't fixed anything, they have fixed things like the condition stacking bugs I mentioned (I recall in the video the voice over dude mentions they have a fix for it and it works but its not true to the original mechanics of the game and so will be left out until after 1.0 .)

The point is though we are eventually getting a fix to that exploit, because they already showed it in one of the videos and then explained why they took it out.

I think its safe to say we're both right. OpenMW will be fixing things, but they're leaving those fixes out for 1.0.

As much as I absolutely adore Morrowind, it is simply far too easy to make vast amounts of money without much effort. Thankfully there are some excellent mod packages (MCP for example) which include various toggle-able fixes to the little avenues in the game which you can exploit if you have the know-how to make yourself incredibly rich and powerful very early on.

Of course, part of the fun is the ability to play around with the incredibly open system in the game, but these mods do a good job of closing the loopholes without ruining the fun of the game.

I said the same thing 10 times in 10 different ways. Fuck. Well better get checked for Autism.

No, I'm being realistic. Saying "mods will fix it" is easy, the reality is far different. It's not merely the character that needs fixing, but NPC and critter animations, combat behavior, stats. Trying to make the combat not shit has a domino effect on a massive number of other systems.

bugs =/= exploits

That's great man. None of what you mention is relevant to the discussion. Saying it will probably never be fixed is not the same is them being impossible to fix.

actually this is both. The games supposed to cap your abilities at 100 (the skills in the game cap at 100 afterall) but the game doesn't do the same for Potion/effect buffs. So its both. Its a bug because it was only implemented for skills, its an exploit because you can do some seriously crazy shit with it.

Besides its not like you can't do it with the spell crafting system, as the spell crafting system is similarly broken but its weighed better, you need money to turn it into an exploit. Whereas with the effects stacks you can do it from the get go so long as you've got the equipment which is cheap and can be acquired from the first trade outpost in the first town.

Also I was a QA. So fuck you. This is both a Bug and an Exploit.

The only people who say this are people for whom Morrowind was their first RPG, and before which only played real-time FPS and action games. The combat system in Morrowind is actually perfect for what the game is supposed to be, which is an RPG in the vein of Arena, Daggerfall, and the many others which came before them.

The problem is that it came with a revolutionary 3D world which looks like the same kind of world that FPS and action games take place in - that is, a real-time world where you should expect bullets and sword to hit things in their path and for other collisions and events to play out as you might expect to see them play out in real life. But this isn't what Morrowind was trying to achieve, and so the criticism that it's combat system is shitty misses the mark. It would be a shitty combat system if Morrowind was an action/adventure game. It's easy to be convinced, especially by the nature of the games which followed in the TES series, that that is what it's trying to be. In reality, Morrowind is a bridge between the visual immersion provided by 3D action/adventure games and the classical mechanics of Western pen-and-paper RPGs. Arena and Daggerfall tried to be this bridge too, but didn't succeed to nearly the extent that Morrowind did because the graphical capacity to construct an immersing 3D visual world wasn't there at the time.

It's fundamentally the same reason why the lockpicking system is actually better in Morrowind than in Oblivion and Skyrim. What was forgotten in the latter two games is that playing a Role-Playing Game means playing a role. The introduction of the lockpicking minigame destroys this, because it hands takes the skill away from the character and over to the player. A player who becomes very good at the minigame can pick master level locks with shitty picks right from the beginning of the game. The problem with this is that, as good as you might be at the lockpicking minigame, your character is supposed to be shit at lockpicking, as represented by his low skill level. This is why the RNG elements in Morrowind are better than their replacements in Oblivion and Skyrim - they make it a better RPG. Your character should not be able to pick the toughest locks until his skill - which is not your skill but his - is high enough. And just as a character who is shit at lockpicking should fail many attempts at it and break a load of picks at the beginning, so should a character who is shit at swordfighting miss his opponent repeatedly as he fumbles around with the weapon.

Oblivion's attempt at improving this system makes it worse, because now all you need to do to make your character hit an enemy successfully is point your cursor over them. Now the only thing left which your character's skill level influences is damage, and you end up with a system which tries to look superficially more 'realistic' but ends up shattering immersion even more, because the same sword swing animations hitting the same part of the enemy NPC's body do more damage the higher your skill level is.

You were QA and are conflating bugs and exploits?

wew

Too many retards in the thread. Don't bother.

Trips of truth.

Nailed it. Too many people here don't get that having level ups and stats doesn't make the game an rpg. They also don't get that making Oblivion and Skyrim action games is one of their biggest flaws, especially with how easy they are. Retardedly easy player skill checks are about the anathema of progression.

On a slightly different note, I can not fathom for the life of me how anyone who has ever played a decent action game can look at Oblivion or Skyrim's combat and think, "You know, this gets the job done."

No shit fucknuts. It's why Fallout is superior, it doesn't let twitch reflexes have any impact on the gameplay.

Instead of writing a whole fucking article treating detractors like stupid children for "not getting it", how about you stop pretending the game isn't designed like shit? If they had wanted a proper cRPG they shouldn't have made it real time and in the first person.

TES were never even RPGs to begin with, they're glorified dungeon crawlers that faggots like to masturbate over and pretend let them play a role. LARPing in a virtual world is not roleplaying. Bethesda fanboys are the biggest blight to the genre next to biodrones.

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I forgot that I used better training mod.

It's fairly disgusting that bethdrones can only ad hominem critics by implying they aren't "true" RPG fans, that TES is their first RPG and they have nothing to compare it with.

I do compare it to infinitely superior titles with better mechanics, role playing opportunities and writing. The only thing Morrowind has going for it is muh atmosphere. Other than that, the writing is dry, the quests unimaginative, the combat shit, the roleplaying paper thin, there is no semblance of balance and the game is just one long session of munchkining with a layer of tedium on top.

Pot calling the kettle black. Past level 15 Morrowind loses any semblance of difficulty, it's even easier than Skyrim or Oblivion in some regards.

They're all shit games, Skyrim at least can be modded to eke some modicum of enjoyment out of it.

I never said that. In fact, no one in this thread did. All people have stated is that the combat is shit in every Bethesda game and inherently impossible to fix, but I guess strawmanning because your opposition is right is what one has to expect from Morrowind fanboys.

It doesn't change the fact that combat is boring as fuck, and basically just a formality. You hit things and you sidestep to avoid projectiles. Sometimes you switch between melee abd magicka to get a spell effect you need but because of how clunky this is, theres never any point

They're not unacceptable, he just needed three paragraphs to tell me Morrowind is an RPG, and therefore I should not expect it to play like an action game. No shit.

They needn't be. What they must do is separate the player from the character, especially in terms of skill, which no Bethesda game does to a satisfactorily degree. You can still game the combat by using your own reflexes to dodge blows. That's anathema to what an RPG is supposed to be about.

They're not. They take one aspect of RPGs, combat and combat mechanics, and build a game around it.

Next you'll tell me Deus Ex is an RPG because it borrows some elements of RPGs as well.

Call it playacting then. Role playing assumes the game has some system in place to recognize what the player is trying to do and react to it appropriately.

"Role playing" to TES fans is pretending to be a hunter in Skyrim, when the game really has no mechanics in place to properly simulate hunting, nor is any NPC in the game going to, for example, praise you for a particularly difficult catch or marvel at your hunting trophies. It's all in the player's head.

Furries like you are not people. You need to remember this in your daily dealings.

What's the matter? Can't handle smug cartoon pics?
Hang yourself mate.

Nice retort. What, no more smugness? Guess you have nothing intelligent to argue with, or more likely, you have no user more intelligent to do the thinking for you so you can greentext about it.

Fuck off cunt
The dungeon crawling in TES is nothing like Wizardry. Its Ultima Underworld lite at best. Generic golden box shit at worst.

Dues Ex is an RPG. Not because of the leveling system, but because of the way you can choose how and why the character acts, both through dialog and your approach to levels.

Dialog options that amount to more than "Yes" and "Yes with more angst" are pretty much the hallmark of what makes a game an RPG. You can technically have one without dialog at all, but that would be really tricky to pull off.

You dont get any attribute point multipliers when leveling through trainers.

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Wrong symbol, I meant to bold that…

That still doesn't make TES games RPGs in the proper sense.

Next up: Reasons why Halo is an RPG too.

What if after you close the book there is a quiz and if you get the questions right you go up a lvl in that skill? Then you would have to actually read the book and learn something about the game mechanics?

:'(

In the scamp house there is a box with 4 pieces of Orc Armour in a crate and you can steal it and the Orc in the room will yell at you but not do anything, free Orc Armour.

nope, but i would be happy to explain why FFVII is NOT one.

wut

When you rest to level up you get this screen, the multiplier next to the attribute can go as high as x5. The only way to get these is to actually level up the skills asociated with the attribute by using them. If you use a trainer to level a skill you wont get any

I don't remember that being true

Morrowind's system was GOAT
Oblivion's system was shit
Skyrim didn't have a system

That and you have to keep training skills after you level up but before you rest to get the multiplier up even more.

I feel the opposite I fucking hate the oblivion/morrowind leveling system. I hate having to either play as a jew or grind. I prefer XP and point allocation systems, like fallout.

Except that's not true, you just have to level up major and minor skills to gain attributes upon leveling.
It doesn't matter the way you do it.

Try leveling with a trainer only, you wont get any multipliers.

I have done it, and I definitely got multipliers.
My guess is that you have been training miscellaneous skills.

I remember training stuff like acrobatics and axe and just getting a measly +1 to everything. I cant find shit about it on the wiki though so I guess you are right

TES in general has a shit system, and morrowind is no exception. In fact, Skyrim actually has the best leveling of the three (maybe the whole damn series), though it's still shit.

Morrowind and Oblivion have two key problems. The first is power leveling which exists to punish players for playing the game normally. If you don't minmax your skill ups you will get shafted in attribute points. The best way to play either of those games is to sit in town grinding controllable skills until you reach end game levels.

The second problem is the "Omnigod" syndrome. Neither game makes any effort to prevent a player from mastering every skill on the same character. This is pretty much the antithesis of systemic roleplay, as your character is no longer an individual with strengths and weaknesses, but simply a generic mary sue capable of absolutely everything.

Skyrim technically fixes both issues. While you can still max out skills, Perks are far more limited, though IIRC later patches added a system that allowed infinite leveling, I didn't play it that late. As for attributes, it "fixed" that issue by removing attributes entirely. Obviously it's far from an ideal or even a complete solution in either case.

In my experience, the BEST leveling is done through the mod "Oblivion XP". While balance can be a little wonky, the mod rewards "playing the game". You gain experience points for pretty much anything you would want to do, from the standard grind to reading books or picking nirnroots or even feeding as a vampire. Skills and attributes are both strictly limited by the number of points you can acquire before max level, therefor forcing you to make a build rather than just doing everything, and there is no penalty for doing things in whichever order you want.

Oblivion XP also gets rid of one of the major immersion breaks and nuisances, which is skill grinding. No longer do you castsummon skeleton 1,703 times to level conjuration, which otherwise wouldn't actually gain much exp through normal use.

lemme guess.
On Dishonored ?

As long as attributes allow for it, there's no reason why a character can't be good at every skill. It just takes an assload of time. Just like in the real world. As long as a person is physically capable, they can become good at anything they set out to get better at. It just takes a lot of time.

The problem with later games is that character skill means nothing. So you're a master of everything from level one as soon as you figure out the minigames. Morrowind didn't have this probem because they were actual RPGs. If you want to get good at everything, you'll be playing for hundreds of hours. Daggerfall put another obstacle in our way with the disadvantages in character creation.

Maybe there's no logical reason, but it's replacing roleplaying with grind. Limitations are what make a character interesting.

I don't think so though. Through the normal progression in the story and guilds, you can pick one build and get it to a point where it is effective against the end boss. You're only grinding if you choose to be god of everything, which is a lot of extra work for the sake of novelty, as it should be. I have never had to grind outside of story with any character in Morrowind except for this one time I made a weird merchant character who basically did nothing but collect cromberries around the ascadian isles and sell magicka potions.

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I disagree.
You shouldn't be able to become the master at everything, because games takes place in a limited timeframe. And because it's immersion breaking.

Starting as a nobody and becoming a master swordsman over the course of 2-3 months? Bullshit?

Starting as a good swordsman and becoming a master over a year or more? OK.

we're in a day and age where most people refuse to even roll their stats for d&d. while i agree with you, expecting that in games now is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Has 890e70 even played an Elder Scrolls game before? He sure does like talking shit about things he clearly has no clue about.

There are a LOT of skills that require pure grinding to work. Enchanting, Alchemy, and Sneak are all absolutely useless until you specifically grind them. Most of the magic skills other than Destruction don't naturally get cast enough even in a build that relies on them to level naturally either. Security, Armorer, Mercantile and Speachcraft would all be bad as well except for the fact that nobody even cares about those skills to begin with.

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So don't level up every skill when you play it, fucking retard. Literally just a case of 'wahh someones doing thing i dont like'.

Enchanting, alchemy and armorer do require grinding you're right. They are crafting skills that don't directly help you on quests and allow you to become OP if you do grind them up. But I'll give you that one. They are grinding skills. No way around it.

Mercantile, Speechcraft and sneak however, you can bypass grinding with certain easy-to-get items. A few telvanni bug musks with some kind of charm-enchanted jewelry will work on pretty much all quests where you need to persuade someone, granted you have high enough personality.

Chameleon makes a big difference with sneak and items enchanted with it are everywhere. If you wanted a character with an aversion to magical trinkets, then yeah you'd be doing a bit of grinding. But then again: roleplaying. I magic-hating character would have to work a little harder in a place like Tamriel, where magic is a part of every day life.

The point is that if I want to make a sneak-based I'm going to need to crouchwalk next to a sleeping guy for an hour because sneak is absolutely worthless until you grind it to at least 75. You can "replace" sneak with items, but then you aren't makeing a sneak character.

You can't even level sneak by trying to use it in a worthless state, because you don't get any experience if you are detected. You literally cannot raise it without grinding or buying it, which basically means you can't roleplay a sneaky type properly at all. As soon as you start walking into a wall that roleplay is dead.

Correction, it was oblivion with the sleeping people, for morrowind you just needed to be under a bridge or something. same issue though.

>Implying Deus Ex isn't an RPG.

See what I said in previous post:

When the chameleon charms are so cheap and prevalent, refusing to use them is a handicap you place upon yourself. There is no reason why a person living in Tamriel would not have some magic items. You are still playinga sneaking character, even if you choose to use stat-boosting items. Many RPGs work like this. The only reason you have to grind is that you are placing an arbitrary handicap on yourself by refusing to use items that were meant to be used.

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Wut. Abusing trainers is how you cap levels and stats. You make a custom high level damage skill spell, then you cast it on yourself, talk to a trainer and level up that skill for super cheap because you suck shit at it, rinse and repeat until you've leveled up as much as you want and gained as many stat boosts as you want.

The only thing that really bugged me about the elder scrolls series, is that enemies are leveling up with you.

Not in Morrowind, they don't. (with a few not really noticeable exceptions).

It was only across-the-board in Oblivion. Morrowind had very little (but some) level scaling. Skyrim had more, but within certain pre-defined limits. Oblivion's was universal, and thus retarded.

There's not even a fix for it in mod form. Oblivion simply doesn't have any sort of progression built in to the world design, so literally the best thing mods can attempt to do is randomize enemy levels, which is arguably much worse.

Do you guys think morrowind would be better without any scaling at all? Personally I thought the level scaling was just right, didnt have tombs full of ancestral ghosts when you are a god of destruction but still has plenty of places where you will get your shit pushed in if you wander into them as a steel wearing pleb

I think it was alright. Honestly I think too much of Morrowind was stuck on the (unscaled) low-end. Not that it needed more or less scaling, just more dangerous areas.

Will they introduce weapon hitboxes? Because without those, a game's melee combat will NEVER be good.

No, I thought it was fine.

I feel that they got the balance right. If you were low level, you weren't likely to get your shit slapped just walking out of town but if you accidentally wandered into a Daedric ruin your day was going to get fucked.

I played Oblivion with OOO. That changed the game so drastically. You know Umbra, the bitch with the giant sword? She was almost unkillable at anything except for high levels. I remember tackling her at a lowish level, and I had to CONSTANTLY backpedal, because she would 1-shot me, and her health regen almost matched the damage I dealt to her. I think it took me about 20 minutes of constant backpedaling and pelting her with spells and arrows before she died. It was terrifying. On the plus side, her Umbra sword obviously outleveled a lot of the shit in the mod, so for a while, I became death incarnate.

I did that too. OOO is absolute shit though. It is literally designed to make the game MORE grindy and tedious.

Is there a better mod to remove scaling, then? I felt like replaying it lately, but of course you have to mod it until it crashes.

Isnt umbra in oblivion like one the few non scaled enemies? I remember having to backpedal just like in vanilla

No. That's why I never replay Oblivion. Or use console to make it less tedious, but also not enjoyable as a game, but a walking experience. Which is why I don't play it in that case either.

No, there is not. OOO doesn't remove scaling either though, there's still a LOT of level scaling even with that mod on.

Like I said , Oblivion isn't designed with any sort of logical area progression. Theres really nothing modders can do to make certain areas higher level without just making it feel completely random and arbitrary. The one mods that attempt it (such as oblivion unleveled) do literally that, they randomize the level for each zone

gee I wonder who could hide behind this post

he meant that you don't get attribute multipliers when you train skills from a trainer, but he's a faggot and that's wrong. you get attribute multipliers whenever you level a major/minor stat, regardless of if it's from a book, a trainer, or actually using the skill.

of course, the system is kinda bullshit and does reward min/maxing because you dont get the max stats for leveling one skill for your whole level, the multipliers have a cap, so you have to train multiple skills per level. but you could also say that this system encourages you to go out and level normally, which does generally use multiple skills, vs just sitting in town and grinding one skill to max. but that depends on your viewpoint as the player. personally i dont grind skills until the late game and choose major/minors i'd raise while adventuring, so i get nice, spread out multipliers, and it's not a problem for me.

Morrowind greatly encourages grinding out Endurance as soon as possible, as health gain from end is non-retroactive.

This. It's why The Lady is one of the best signs for almost any character. It's a huge health boost that most other signs can't compete with.

yes, i agree the way hp works is trash. but i've always picked heavy armor as a major, and stolen a bunch of heavy gear from the seyda neen census office first thing in the game, so i usually get the max multipliers for endurance when leveling early anyways. if you dont wear heavy armor, i supposed you'd have to pick spear or something and grind it out, which does sound awful.

which also brings up the point that you actually have to pick one major/minor skill for each attribute at the start or never get above a x1 multiplier, which is a total beginner's trap if you didn't know that. once again though, it can be played around if you know that by picking the right skills. but the first time you're gunna be fucked if you tried to make a specialized character.

This, always play spear. Fuck you Todd, where are my spears in Skyrim?

Our engine can't handle them

Holy fuck you're all retarded. This is how the leveling system works in Morrowind

>Every time any skill increases, it provides a +0.5 bonus to its associated stat (capping at +5). It doesn't matter whether it was raised or trained.

If you want to powergame and stay at level 1 (to avoid scaling in either Morrowind or Oblivion), then you make your choice skills like Destruction not major or minor and you'll never level up, but have high skills.

If you want to powergame and have high stats, then you'll want to play naturally until it's time to level up, and make note of which skills have actually increased, then pay a trainer to improve your non major/minor skills to round off the bonuses to +5 (or just blow loads of money on a trainer to begin with and chase the juicy +5's from the start)

This is so overpowered in Morrowind that in Oblivion, they changed it to only allow 5 trainers per level, so you can't just buy your way to heroism. The optimal increases are to get +5 END/+1 LCK every level, and another +5 to another stat of your choice

I grinded out heavy armor on mudcrabs, no joke. I faced away from the mudcrab, used autorun into a wall to drain stamina (so they hit more often) and healed up with potions or spells when needed. It was tedious.

Is there a mod to add skyrim leveling system to fallout nv?

Yes, but why would you want to?

i honestly thought it was just major/minors i read it in a faq a long time ago. i am the faggot.

You did it wrong dumbass.

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Just to try something different

Doesn't matter how much, it's the mechanic in itself. Also because of that mechanic i actually felt really fucking stupid one time, and i probably was. The first elder scrolls game i came across was Oblivion, i was more of a consolefag before i started playing on PC later.

Anyways, i played through entire Oblivion on Level 1, and i mean the entire fucking game, like 500 hours of quests, everything i did was done on level 1. The first few hours i didn't knew why i leveled, i thought i must be doing something wrong or it's some bug, so i just kept playing without thinking about it much, i didn't look online for a solution because it was fun either way, and after a while i completely forgot about it and went on without even looking at my stats once, this was the second RPG i've ever played so the only thing i cared about was items and skills, rather than stats.

Some months later i visited a highschool friend who also played the game and we talked about it, he wanted to show me something and turned on the game, where i saw he was like level 58. I told him about how i am still level 1 even though i beat the game and he laughed like shit, asking me if i ever went to sleep in it. I said no and he laughed even harder, i knew about sleeping ingame but i never bothered with it, i thought i will probably get robbed or some shit and i didn't want to lose my items. Well, after i got home i tried it out, and i went straight to level 80, became a vampire and got visited by the dark brotherhood in the same night. I was angry and confused as fuck at first, but then i just felt really fucking stupid.

Second playthrough was a piece of cake then, because i practically played 500 hours of hardcore mode before, where deadras could nearly onehit me and i survived only because of potions and evading like hell.

Umbra is both the name of the npc and the weapon she has, she also has her own set of ebony armor and starts at lvl 20. Shes in Vindasel.

No wonder you couldn't kill her, she doesn't level with you. tbf she isn't an example of how bad the scaling system is because she isn't subject to it.

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There isn't 500 hours worth of quests in oblivion. Not by a long shot.

There probably is if you try to do every dungeon at level 1.

user, you're the retard if you think what I said was wrong.
Miscellaneous skills do not contribute to attribution bonuses.

He never said they did.

who the fuck even thought of this garbage?

RPG are all garbage

This leveling up system is pure cancer

You should learn new skills and thats it, only the player skill should determine how gud his character gets

RPGfags should all be roasted alive for contaminating all of gaming with their gay casual bullshit

>Every time any skill increases, it provides a +0.5 bonus to its associated stat (capping at +5)

I hate that shit. Just like in Pokemon I have to track stats in an excel spreadsheet mid-game

It's like inventory management but permanent and more obfuscated. At least in an MMO, you can usually fix it or roll a new character easily but not in a single player RPG where the bonuses start at level 1.

i exclusively play flight sims for this reason

thats an old pasta

Oh. Never mind, then.

If you never use fast travel, search for quests based on the textinfo rather than map points and basically fight 5 times longer against enemies than you should, often one by one because you would get raped by groups and sneak nearly all of the way, going 100% through each place you find and open each thing you come across for items, you can. I probably know half cyrodiil like the back of my hand. I've played that shit like a total autist. I have at least 200 hours on skyrim and morrowind too.

That's why everyone hated me in MMORPG guilds too, because i love to go through everything in a game i play slow as fuck, but on the contrary i never understood what's so fun about rushing through a game. Because of that for example i also played through whole Guild Wars or TERA alone, even dungeons. I think my longest boss fight in TERA was 3 hours of evading and slashing.

Copy the text and search for it online, you won't find a duplicate. If there is a story like this than there is someone else who is also stupid like me.

They do

The game has hard level scaling so you won't actually have any problems at level 1. You won't fight more monsters than rats and scamps but the game is laughably easy if you are a stealth archer

No they don't, only Major and Minor skills contribute to your leveling and attributes.

They do.
Miscellaneous skills just don't contribute to levelling. Have you actually played the game?

They do. How do you think I grinded endurance? Neither heavy armor, nor spears were tagged, only medium armor was. But I grinded heavy armor by the way of mudcrabs until I hit 5x multiplier, then leveled some strength-related major/minor skills for a nice healthy +5 on strength and endurance and +1 luck on every level up.

Of course I have, you're talking about someone who's maxed out every attribute including luck in Skyrim and has killed every Dragon in Oblivion. Noone knows the game better than me.

Kek

You will not increase in level from misc skills but you do receive stat bonuses. This is what makes optimization possible

Yes I have. Just went in-game to confirm, apparently I am fucking retarded.

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Here's a pro-tip from me. The Oblivion sigil stones found in Skyrim can give two enchantments at once to any equipment, making the double enchantment perk from the enchantment tree obslete. They had the same effect in Oblivion, and was the only way to get two enchants on a piece of equipment.

maybe you told that story before back on 4chan or something and I just remember it.

Yet it offers more than Oblivion and Skyrim ever did.
You can get as crazy as you want with Morrowind, be creative for a change.

You probably just manufactured the memory. Or you have deja vu.

lel
Most later game enemies have a hard coded reflect making damage dealing spells worthless and you can kill every single enemy spamming LMB with a chitin spear. "Being creative" involves using exploits to make OP shit which doesn't matter because at that point combat is a non issue as you can literally regenerate more health than enemies can hit you for.

Does Reflect work against AOE spells?

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Morrowind provides a lot of options with regards to spells anyway. Just one avenue becoming unavailable isn't as much of a problem as in Skyrim.

What was better about Morrowind leveling system in detail? Never got into Morrowind and I simply don't know.
I am going to play it anyways as it is only TES game that doesn't crash each 10 minutes but I am still curious.

The leveling wasn't amazing or anything. In fact, it has a lot of problems, the biggest of which is that it encourages powergaming, even though it clearly wasn't designed to be used that way.

In addition to unlimited training sessions as in the OP
Axes, short blades, spears, unarmored, medium armor and enchant.
You have 5 major and 5 minor skills. Major skills advance 25% faster than minor skills, but they both contribute to leveling. Non-class miscellaneous skills advance 25% slower than minor skills and don't contribute to leveling.
I think there's some, but you can't just breeze through the main quest at level one like in Oblivion. Autistic stat-maxing isn't required either.
Since most of the game is dice-rolls, statistics dictate almost everything. Guilds also require you to actually have skills related to them; you can't advance in the Fighter's Guild without combat skills, and you can't become archmage without casting a single spell.

i agree with a lot of this, but I would like to add that people who say it's combat is shit clearly have not played games like gothic or other earlier rpgs.

Enchanters make bank. Why would they ever teach others when they can make much more money selling their services?

Genius.

Fixed it for you. Games don't exist in a bubble and not liking something is not it being bad. Get your head out of your ass.

You really can't have an argument if you refuse to listen to the other party.

Fallout has shit combat too, you don't see Fallout fanboys deny this fact.

Maybe TES drones should stop being so sensitive and put some lotion on their vaginas.

Oh hey I remember your arguments from a while back.

Good to see you're still an autist.

Ok so I am reading on both Morrowind and Oblivion. Besides Oblivion being one giant cluster fuck it what really makes it better are exploits.

I think I am starting to understand why people love this so much. This game is equivalent to +str gear in Diablo 2.

Don't play dumb. With old Fallout games you don't see casuals who don't play RPGs shitpost terrible arguments against the game (combat being the usual strawman) because they feel the need to virtue signal by retroactively claiming everything Bethesda made is shit.

Nigger, it's a simple statement of fact. The only problem here is Morrowind fanboys lacking the emotional maturity to admit the game has faults, the main of which is the combat and the completely broken mechanics and difficulty.

Bethesda hasn't made a good game outside of Morrowind, and even that one is arguable.

Noone is saying the game has no faults, try shitposting in another thread

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Isn't it fun when they balance single player game by restricting what you can do in it?

What is your problem with them? Care to elaborate?

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FO3 had superior combat to Morrowind. At least you could speed up the agony by playing it like an FPS or simply abusing VATS. As for leveling and difficulty, say what you want about Gothic, but at least it didn't allow you to munchkin the shit out of it, you have to specialize.

It's set up like an action game (first person, real time, combat moves) yet it wants to play like an RPG with to-hit chances and stats. Suffice to say it ends up playing like ass, and that's ignoring how clunky it all is. It's this weird hybrid that never really works as intended and just ends up being shit.

Leveling is retarded, the game encourages power gaming and sheer grinding but isn't built around it, it's hilariously easy to break the game without even really trying.

It doesn't exist. Even if you don't spend a few hours just slogging through tedium to max your stats by the time you hit level 15 any semblance of challenge is already gone.

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You're thinking of Daggerfall.

Also Morrowind doesn't encourage grinding. You're just playing it wrong. I had this same argument with someone else this morning.
No, really, you are playing it wrong.

If you're this attached to how a game looks, try Uncharted 4. It also pretends to be an action game and all the reviews say it's beautiful.

No, the game wants you to power game. Sure, you don't need to grind, there's a dozen other ways you can abuse gameplay mechanics to overpower your character and render all the fighting a superfluous chore, but my point still stands, the game is broken.

You're basically saying that the right way to play the game is figuring out ways to kick balance in the nuts and spend the rest of the game being bored out of your mind.

No I'm not. Check IDs.

For the most part, that's how Daggerfall played as well. It's not perfect, but it doesn't ruin the game. Most certainly I wouldn't say you can't mix the two.
You ever touch that difficulty slider? Unofficial patches?

Most people wouldn't know the ways to powergame through the first playthrough. Morrowind has high difficulty areas and quests that will kick your ass if you're unprepared and low difficulty areas and quests that let you get money and level up.

You're never forced to do anything in the game and I personally believe that most people go with the path of least resistance the first time they play.

Do you have actual brain problems?

Nevermind, found my answer.

Oblivion's combat can become pretty passable in one of two ways:

With OpenMW we will be able to do stuff like add in actual hitbox based animations instead of calculating targets based on a cone in the direction you're facing, add in a system for hit reactions that scale off of damage, and add in plenty of variables for custom spells like velocity, cast/charge speed, or gravity.

AOE spells are a good way to commit suicide when fighting multiple enemies.

Why would I bother when just spamming attack using a chitin spear is not only faster but also more reliable?

No it doesn't
The game level gates you hard. You cannot take quests until you are the appropriate level and dangerous enemies don't spawn until you are the appropriate level not to mention doing quests is probably the worst way to make money.

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The only scaling enemies are the animals that end up with Blight, what scaling are you talking about?

This isn't true. Unless you're talking about skill level requirements for guild ranks.

What about enemies that are resistant to chitin? I'd like to watch you beat the game with a chitin spear. Have you played it before?

The assassin's gear is level scaled. You can kill them very easily on lower levels as they have shit gear beyond their light armor. At higher levels the assassins get glass and daedric weapons along with retardedly broken throwing weapons.
The cliff racers are a self admitted bug on developers part and even then they are not difficult to fight at all so I don't know what you are talking about.
Red mountain does not spawn anything beyond ash slaves and ash zombies at level 10 and those are trash tier enemies.

Tribunal has quest NPCs scaling with your level. Overworld spawns are also level scaled and so are daedric temple spawns.

Crassius Curio literally refuses to give you quests if you aren't at the proper level.

No such thing unless you mean ghosts in which case a useless enchantment will make you hit them just fine.

Seriously, have any of you fucks actually played the game you sing praises to?

so you are talking about guild ranks. How long ago did you play this game? It isn't just ghosts you need enchanted weapons for. I doubt you could beat the game just spamming chitin spear at every enemy. I'd like to see you do it. Can't you record it?

Caius Cosades*

Which quest from Caius? I'm looking on uesp and see nothing about it. I can't recall ever being denied a quest from Caius because I was too low a level. What do you gain from this shitposting?

i have seen the assassin spawn with a glass dagger first thing in the game, and you're skimming over the fact that even if he had a shit weapon, you're a level ONE potentially who probably doesnt even have a full set of armor yet, you got jumped in your sleep, and the guy has the second best light armor in the game along with a decent health pool.

if you dont know why cliff racers are horrible at low levels when they can hover right outside your hitbox and you can barely hit with your weapons to begin with, and the chances of you having ranged attacks at that point is next to zero, then that's your problem.

red mountain always spawns those enemies outside, so i dont see your point. the point is that pretty much any area controlled by the sixth house is going to spawn magic wielding fuck off enemies that will destroy you in the early game. red mountain was used as an example because it's huge and everyone goes there early game and gets their shit kicked in when they go inside.

I killed the assassin quite easily at level 1 with no weapon because I had the steed sign so I made him run around for about 5 minutes until he had no stamina then each time I punched him he would get knocked out for about 10 seconds, which let me get a lot of free hits on him. And right when he got back up I'd punch him again and he'd fall down.

uesp.net/morrow/quest/mq_sixthhouse.shtml

What do you gain from your retarded shitposting?
This is easily verified by doing it yourself.

And I have seen dragons from Skyrim spawning in sedya neen. What exactly do you have to gain from lying?

You are supposed to clear out the bandit lair right outside Sedya neen before moving out. Your shit character builds only make a good argument for your stupidity and nothing else.

Level 10 isn't early game,its fucking end game. You storm the sixth house base at level 6. Ash slaves have shitty spells that don't even do more than 20 damage and ash zombies are standard melee enemies. None of them are difficult to deal with and those are the only ones that will spawn at early levels.

You can beat the game using just Hand to hand. Are you really surprised that something marginally better has the same result?

Levitation.

Someone should make one of these for Morrowind.

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