This is something I've thinking latelly, so I hope some answers will be nice

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get gud fagget

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Please tell me that was a joke. If it was fair enough, but if it wasn't then I need to leave this board.

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Video games aren't art, and digital copies of data aren't collectible. So this comparison you've been wracking your brain on is worthless.

Hey user let me tell you a secret

There's hundreds, thousands of pieces of music that are 500% better than any of the shit you've listened to in your life, but only 4 people know about them.

There's an astounding amount of wonderfully crafted statues and marvelous painting stored in some forgotten attice somewhere, out of sight, that in some cases the artists themselves threw away after one look at them because he was too harsh with himself and hated everything he created, fading away unappreaciated by everyoner, including himself.

"popular" doesn't mean "best".
The things that you know are popular due to a series of circumstances or the right person in the right position of authority declaring that thing to be a masterpiece, and the reputation of that piece of work being considered "the best" simply because everyone knows about it.

Life is a series of coincidences and domino effects mixed in one big clusterfuck.
So yes, there's amazing games just 3-4 people know about and no one else ever will.
That's just how shit works everywhere, on everything.

People that actually care dig in deep and try to find good shit among the forgotten treasures buried in this chaos, Holla Forums started out as a board that had specifically this mindset, unfortunately it got lost somewhere along the way.

give me one reason why flappy bird is bad.

there's not a single definition of art, and digital art can be art.
otherwise 3D animation, photography, special effects couldn't be art neither.

Check it out:

I only stay because I hope for it to get better.

It's just an idle game, no real depth whatsoever. Only one button, same shit repeats every time until you get a highscore. If you like such a game then you're a lost cause an should leave

It's the bare definition of games.
It has a goal, a lose condition, some skill and a challenge.

It's a game, and is a better game than many skinner boxes filled games, like farmville or even loot shit in other videogames.

So, it has more in common with arcade games from the 80's than modern BS AAA garbage.

Maybe you should read on game design then.

Watch this video.

you're an idiot if you think game design is its own thing rather then being made up of everything a video game composes and no game development is not the correct term with what you are trying to mean

to be a "genius" at it you must know all that there is to know about what makes a video game good, this can only be done via making video games and seeing what works and what does not

comfirmed for retard who never reads a book on game design.

You trying to get deep on me? It's a simple game yet it has little worth as anything else than pure time wasting. Hell even playing with a yoyo has more potential, pong at least had some illusion of challenge, flappy bird is just fighting against the shitty psychics and marathoning until you get a simple highscore to brag about.
And pertaining to your OP, it lacks good art, music, story and even gameplay

Oh good thing these nu-devs have been to game schools and have learned game design to make nu-games.
Where would we be without them and game design books?

Because that would require a different genius for each thing or a godlike perfect super genius that should rather spend their time creating real-life waifu-slaves.

The Russians beat you to it 30 years ago.

Watch the video.

Games can be anything from tic tac toe to FFXV, and everything in between.

It's a game, and even while it was a fad, it proved that smaller games could be popular.

Dunno why the anger, I tried, it was a fun time waster, it was fun.

But is a good game, unless you've been deceived by modern AAA industry.

I've never been into those faggotry.
I simply read about game design with some pdfs from the internet.

you going to actually make a point or just be a bitch nigger here?

a game is simply nothing more than an activity that has a goal, a challenge and a lose condition, nothing else.

It can be flappy bird, tic tac toe or some modern FPS.

Popular =/= good lad
It's not a good time waster either unless you're autistic. It's a game yes, albeit a shitty one. If you would considering anything barebones to be good then you are no better than those who think a rock over a broken table is "art"

give me a proper definition of why flappy bird is bad.

sure, it may be short and maybe boring after a while.

but why do you assume is a bad game?

then you over looked my point, those aren't necessarily good games

Then it'll get refunded on steam

Ugh goddamnit, anons.

He meant Sonic and Mario.

There, you happy now? faggots.

Because it lacks good music, good art, good story and good gameplay, and to top it off it's lifespan is incredibly short if you're not autistic. It's gameplay it's barebones, only one button to float and that's it. Produces no sense of reward whatsoever, only a petty highscore, and you feel like you've accomplished nothing. At least in pong you could feel somewhat good after beating the AI/Opponent, in pacman being able to get through the level alive. In flappy birds it's just endless, no real goal other than getting a highscore. That is not a good game, it's a shit one that only shit eating casuals or people with their heads up their asses praising it for being "simplistic" would find worthwhile

I'm sure there's lots of 80's games on steam right now.

a good game is one that you enjoy, because is like music, there's not a definitive answer as to what makes a game good.

some people may enjoy tic tac toe, others may think is shit.

Sure, SMB last 5-4 minutes if you speed run it.

ergo you need to know what works and what doesn't work when making a game, which can only be achieved via making them

I bet OP is the kind of fag who comes up with shit about a painting that is just a white canvas with nothing on it and tries to sound deep.

I mean look, the guys talking like you could compare flappy birds and mosart in terms of artistic excellence.

games don't need music.
games don't need story, in fact, story makes games worse (movie games).

it has the barebones of gameplay.

so you're only good complain is that is not complex enough.

But for many people is entertaining enough, some people play it for hours (world record scores).

I've made my own.

I don't like modern BS art.

But modern BS AAA games tries to focus on the skyner boxes of video games (story, loot, rpg and level mechanics, graphics, music) to even understand what is gameplay.

Games == gameplay.
Games != story, music, graphics.

show and tell then

It sounds like you're describing Touhou. It's brilliantly designed and the games are fairly short. These are games made by a true master game developer.

en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki
nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=788435

Lad, flappy bird is the antithesis of what you described as a perfect game in your OP, it should be shit even by your standards. I confirm my suspicions that you are just retarded

Not how this works

I've done nothing amazing, really.
this is some channel with some videos I've made.

yeah, touhou is the first master of game development.

It's just one example.
is a perfect one that shows how gameplay can make a game popular even if it's barebones on anything else.

It was just one example.

lmao kid

We're not talking about playing tag in the schoolyard. Videogames most definitely include and can be judged on their lack of story, music, and artstyle based on its genre and era.

Boiling all that off and simplifying it to 'gameplay only' denies videogames their complexity and value. A game with good gameplay, art style, music and story will always be better than a game with only good gameplay and shit/no anything else.

You seem to insist on going the "Popular = Good" route. You said flappy bird was a good game, so it's not a mere example

I don't imply that.
Flappy bird is just one example that gameplay is the definitive point over if a game can be popular, since many believe that smaller games today can't be popular without skinner box BS.

You did not imply it. you downright said it

have you actually completed them?

Have you already forgotten?

Oh, then I do reafirm my point, is a good game, if you know what makes a game good (if you ever made one).

Need to get better, learn programming and the other shit.
Just entered college to study SE.

You said in your OP what makes a game perfect, yet flappy birds lacks all those qualities. You still calling it good shows your own faulty logic

You're getting ripped off. If you don't study autodidactically, you'll never learn to program.

Since the user you're replying to has probably left imageboards forever/is smashing his PC with a sledgehammer/just shot himself in the head, allow me to help you:
lmgtfy.com/?q=go board game

no, you complete what you start and then move on to the next thing, that's just laziness you need to get out of the habit of

This will never not make me mad.

not all good art need to be a masterpiece.
a sketch by an old master could be good, even if is not a masterpiece.

I learned to code by myself, I'm just entering college to study math and other CS shit.

is mostly prototyping, I'm not that good.

you're not good at all and you shouldn't consider your self even alittle bit till you finish your work

In less than 5 minutes?

Expect if fucking DaVinci draws a stickman it's still a fucking stickman. You seem like one of those people who'd fall for a kindergarten painting thinking it was from Raphael's childhood.

I'll get better, waiting to enter college.
(not american BTW).

chess is about memorization of openings and strategies, not about intuition.
learning basic strategies and openings will make you better than 99% people.

I didn't claimed it was a masterpiece, is still a good game, though.

brb

I'm in my early 20's, I have pursued game development my entire life.
Working on a 3D game now. (Already wrote 3D engine from scratch, working on content currently. I have learned both 3D programming and design.)
It's presumptuous for me to suggest I'm the 'genius' you're talking about by replying to this, but anyways.

A master game is not going to be 5-10 minutes. Pretty much anyone, idiot or genius, could make a 5-10 minute game and no one would like it very much. Unless you consider stuff like fighting games '5-minute games'. (Interesting thought, there…)

Anything involving a story (and many great games have stories) needs time to get going. Look at books- short stories don't sell, novels do.
So if you want to make a 5-10 minute masterpiece, you're going to have to cut the story. Maybe make Super Smash Bros. Melee or something.

Yes, learning music composition, 2D/3D art, programming, storywriting, and…Even stuff like architecture, fashion, etc (yes, these subjects are relevant to game dev), takes a LONG time. And even then you'll only be a 'jack of all trades', and probably not a master of most of them.

I'm trying to break out by 2017~2018.
Wish me luck.

Once again, weebs are retarded.

fuck off you disgusting cunt

I'm trying to do the same bro.

That's why I made this thread.

lel

I think you're a fucking idiot.

You think mozart got famous for short musical pieces? You think great artists get their fame from their practice sketches?

Seen him defending Flappy bird a lot saying it's a good game and asking people to prove it's a bad one(which they had very good arguments) but still hasn't said why it is to be considered a good game.
Of course people play/ed it, it was a meme game. Some idiot made a shitty shovelware mobileshit game with lazy gameplay, mechanics and assets and out of pure luck it became famous for being played by some famous youtubers simply for the fact of it being a notoriously shitty game.
I remember seing lots of "news" and bullshit media about this "special" game and what we could learn from it when it esploded, I guess you fell for that meme.

dunno, wanna say something interesting then?

my man

Go play some games, man.
Gather info on what you legit find fun, fair and well crafted.
I can't believe you played flappy bird and tought: "Geez this sure is a lot of fun, and just look a this game it's beautiful, I wish it never ended".
I'm inclined to think you're aiming for mobile since you want short games? It can be done right, after playing some good games from other platforms(it's ok to pirate if you need to, it's for science) play some mobile games and find out what is bullshit and what actually works for them.
This advice is coming from another wannabe dev with a game on the works for mobile.

I dunno why everyone freaked out about flappy bird since is just one example.

is not even my goal, I do simply appreciate the game as a good game, just like an artist can appreaciate a good simple drawing.

It's an example that says a lot.
The only thing it nailed was being short and simple while that was it's goal. Other than that, nothing is redeemable about that game.
Instead of accepting the game as it is, change your mentality, think about how good the game could be.
That's my final advice.

Super Crate Box lasts like 1-5 minutes but is pretty good

You still haven't explained why flappy bird is a good game, though.

Also, stop comparing video games to fucking art.

seems like nobody watched this video.

It basically says is a good game because it focus on the gameplay rather than skinner boxes shit.

That's it.
Sure, some people may not like it, but is an honest game.

I'm certain that a 5-10 minute game could be quite good if everything is designed correctly. It'd probably leave people wanting more. I don't see why this is so enigmatic to you. What do you want out of this thread?

Super Crate Box is a boring grindy platformer that constantly crashes and was programmed by sandniggers.

Video games aren't art in the same way that books, music, paintings, and films are. There's only one parallel I've found so far and it's one of the art forms normalfags forget most easily aside from cooking.

Uhh, Yume Nikki.

to talk about it, is something it's been bothering me lately.

OP, you really need to work on your examples.
If video games hasn't produced a genius artistic talent within the last 40 years, why would you expect one to pop up within the next 4?

Not having all that paid and grindy bullshit is a great, great plus, good thing you learned that already, but it doesn't automatically make the game good or enjoyable. Flappy bird is a game that focuses on it's gameplay, no paywall bullshit included, that's great, but the gameplay is shit so it doesn't matter.
It's fine saying that flappy bird does that right, it is true and I wish more mobile games did that, but it's not a good game just because of that.

I'm going to stop the video there. What the fuck dude.

People don't like flappy bird because it's a shitty no-effort game that got as popular as it was because it happened to get talked about in the media. All the games he mentioned so far have much more effort and/or thinking put into them than flappy bird.

Nice, but when the gameplay is garbage it doesn't automatically turn into a good game because that's all it focuses on. It's just a bad game with no other redeeming factors.

Fucking kill yourself.

That's an interesting point the video raises. Rather than use an arbitrary scale like "fun-factor" it instead measures on its focus on gameplay. Sure, I'll agree with you and say that Flappy Bird is good in the sense that it makes the gameplay the central part of the game, but it is something personally that I never hope to touch again.

The whole beginning part about originality is bullshit though. The games he cited all had a feature that differentiated from each other. I also believe that "tools" like sound design and graphical improvement is utilized to enhance the experience of playing.

You should feel bother, because you have a paljeet app store dev-tier understanding of game mechanics. You don't learn about game design by studying psychologically manipulative mobile games or reading hipster game design books, you go out and actually play some fucking video games like Doom and Quake. Pay attention to everything: map flow, sound design, movement and weapon handling, enemy behaviour, and so on, noting what elements work well and why. Reading the source code of famous engines and technically oriented vidya dev articles/papers/presentations will also help you gain a deeper understanding and appreciation of how games are constructed, assuming you want to do more than improve your taste.
I have met many devs like you, mostly delusional Eastern Europeans and South Americans with inflated egos, minimal programming skills, and absolutely nothing else, thinking they were god-tier game designers and misunderstood geniuses who were going to create the next vidya masterpiece that everyone would fall down and worship. Most of them never finished a single game and all the ones who managed to pull through made forgettable garbage because in the end, they didn't understand what makes a good game and how to construct them. There is hope for you if you smarten up and start over from square one with some humility, but as of now you strike me as a complete fucking idiot who is part of the cancer destroying amateur game development alongside ideafags and the hipsters/cinematic bullshit crowd.

Not only are you retarded but you don't even speak English.

that generally isn't an actual product tho. it's practice. like the random game projects pack from the guys who made super meat boy. those are all "real", short games but they're just little projects. exercises, if you will. but here's the thing tho: all of these geniuses made pretty long works. in the end, they all had an assortment of longer works. someone who loves doing something will inevitably pour a lot of passion into it and it would be pretty hard to make an actual amazing game that would somehow be noticeably amazing in 10 minutes. how are you gonna do it? you're squeezing story, visuals, great gameplay mechanics, satisfying difficulty, etc. etc. in 10 fucking minutes. you didn't specify how long the game would generally be played so i assume the player will have experienced all of those in 10 minutes and it would be hard to make something really gripping in 10 min. maybe a gameplay genius could make gameplay engaging enough and with so many possibilities that people would just want to play again and again after having finished but you can't really make a story that would emotionally grip the audience so hard within 10 min.

This. The reason as to why Doom and Quake are so good isn't because the gameplay is anything special, it's how the rest of the game interacts with the gameplay. I would go as far as to say that there is no such thing as a bad mechanic and that everything is just bad implementation.

That's very funny, user.

It has the excellent music and gameplay, but I dunno about art and story.

I don't understand how a view can be so misguided.

you answered your own question as in

You are literally doing one thing, with one touch. Even fucking Asteroids was more in depth.