Wtf i hate communism now

Isaac Walker
Isaac Walker

making a physical item you can hold
compensated for my labor . the company makes their money back through sales of product

writing a computer program
compensated for my labor. once the program is ready for release, it is then worth $0 according to Marx because then it cost absolutely nothing to reproduce the program
company goes bankrupt and we all lose our job
wtf i hate communism now

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value

Jackson Green
Jackson Green

you're right, market socialism is silly, that's why we need central planning :^)

Ian Perez
Ian Perez

There will be no market exchange under communism.

Parker Howard
Parker Howard

Fuck I want an r8 so bad

Jonathan Sanchez
Jonathan Sanchez

you are literally this.

Jaxson Myers
Jaxson Myers

LTV describes commodities that are produced competitively on the market
you purposefully misunderstanding a concept is not a refutation of it

Jose Edwards
Jose Edwards

Marx says that there are some things that are very valuable, but are worth nothing since no labor went into reproducing the product, such as air.

My program will also be worth nothing since everyone that can run the program will own their own means of production (the computer) and reproduce my product at no cost. So developing the product for the first time costs a lot of money, but then the company doesn't make their money back since it is then effortless to reproduce that product.

Imagine it like it costing a company to produce yarn that is $5 per pound. Once the company puts 10,000 pounds of yarn on the market, they will only be compensated $5 because some guy just bought a lb and used a cloning machine to distribute it to everyone else.

John Nelson
John Nelson

What is the free software movement
what is Redhat
what was Sun Microsystems
what is Oracle
Even in capitalism, you can make money from writing free software.

Carson Perry
Carson Perry

So what's your criticism
when something is reproducible for no effort and people are not prevented from doing so, they won't voluntarily buy that thing.
Why would I buy music when I could torrent that shit for free
Marx wasn't saying that all compensation should be about labor-time, he was describing what already occurs

Luke Sanders
Luke Sanders

They sell services and support, not their software. If you knew anything about the FSF you would know that anyone can take any program and freely distribute it, there is no reason to ever pay for it other than the fact that you want to donate. Nobody chooses a GPL license to make money.

Software takes a lot more effort than being a grocery bagger, so why is that under communism a grocery bagger would be paid more than someone who dedicated years of study to write computer programs?

Lucas Fisher
Lucas Fisher

buying games

Luis Anderson
Luis Anderson

He doesn't understand what communism is
He doesn't understand what socialism is either
not even surprised

Elijah Parker
Elijah Parker

Dodging the question

Matthew Robinson
Matthew Robinson

answering a question based on a false premise
flag related

Ryder White
Ryder White

Holla Forums BTFO
absolutely speechless

Are you denying that Marx stated that things of which take no labor or effort to produce and distribute are worth nothing?

Ayden Gutierrez
Ayden Gutierrez

I'm denying the existence of human labor in a communist society, since labor at that point would be fully automated. Frankly, it's not worth arguing with someone who literally doesn't know the most fundamental of communist and socialist theory. Flag still related

Jordan Peterson
Jordan Peterson

Software takes a lot more effort than being a grocery bagger

t. someone who has never bagged groceries in his life

Jacob Peterson
Jacob Peterson

you should specify your interpretation of communism, since not everyone agrees that a communist society depends on automated labor

James Cox
James Cox

If you don't even understand what you're arguing against, there's hardly any point in arguing with you. Under communism, there are no wages.

Samuel Powell
Samuel Powell

The LTV is an explanation of market prices under capitalism, the LTV does not exist under communism. Commodities are produced for their use value not their exchange value.

Anyway, under capitalism a developer to stay in the business of developing has to CONTINUE TO develop new apps. It's very likely, that within one or two years the app that most likely took that long to develop will be completely outdated. The cost of the commodity accounts for the labour committed for developing and subsequent development. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule like Flappy Bird which was one of the first games of its kind and thus had a "monopoly" at the time of release on games like Flappy Bird.

But this doesn't conflict the LTV (in fact, it corroborates it as commodities aren't sold at their full value - there is profit to be made from wage exploitation which is the primary method of the capitalist and profit to be made by exploitation of the market ) since it was labour that created the game and not the employment of constant capital.

Leo Young
Leo Young

You can't automate programming, retard autist.

Jace Morales
Jace Morales

compensated for my labor. once the program is ready for release, it is then worth $0 according to Marx because then it cost absolutely nothing to reproduce the program
Sounds good. Now excuse me while I, like everyone else, torrents Sony Vegas 9 instead of paying the $150 fee :^)

Adrian Morris
Adrian Morris

companies
compensation
money
Yikes…

Kayden Howard
Kayden Howard

ignorant faggots ignore technological progression, like AI, because they're defined by their jobs
kys my man

Ryder Harris
Ryder Harris

Nice way of dodging the issue by saying that instead of fiat currency, you have fiat faggot labor vouches, therefore the issue of everyone taking my product for free is irrelevant.

I'm sure there are no grocery baggers that are paid $40/hr unlike programmers.

The cost of the commodity accounts for the labour committed for developing and subsequent development
Copying and pasting that software requires 0 labor, therefore the product would be worth nothing. The only person who labors is the programmer who will never be compensated for the time he spent writing it.

Again dodging the question. Just pretend that I was a free lance programmer who spent 1000 hours developing something. The fact that you rebrand money into "labor vouchers" doesn't mean you can dismiss this problem.

This is like saying nobody should ever compensated because in the future their job will be automated.

"okay I spent 6 hours spinning yarn, can I get paid now?"
KILL YOURSELF RETARD
IMPLYING ROBOTS WON'T TAKE YOUR JOB IN THE FUTURE THAT HASN'T ARRIVED YET
IMPLYING YOU DESERVE TO BE PAID FOR YOUR LABOR SINCE IT WILL ONE DAY BE REPLACED IN 200 YEARS

Jayden Reed
Jayden Reed

You were asking a question regarding communism. A communist society entails full automation, and you would know that if you flag related

Benjamin Sanders
Benjamin Sanders

Nice way of dodging the issue by saying that instead of fiat currency, you have fiat faggot labor vouches, therefore the issue of everyone taking my product for free is irrelevant.
You still have no idea what you're talking about. But nice way of dodging the fact you were totally wrong and had no idea what you were talking about beforehand as well. Just to repeat what you said at >>1004012:
why is that under communism a grocery bagger would be paid more than someone who dedicated years of study to write computer programs?
How embarrassing.

Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright

And before some idiot goes "hurrr if everything isn't automated, then it isn't communism!11", programming isn't going to be something you can automate, and neither will a lot other jobs. Don't be an idiot and think that you're going to live to see the day where there is no difference between the human mind and AI and that robots are going to create themselves and program themselves to do what must be done

oh looks like i'm too late in hitting that reply button>>1004179
If this is what you believe then you can never mention communism ever again for another thousand years let alone ever consider supporting such a movement until automation has already arrived (which it never will)

you're paid in labor vouchers instead of cash, totally different!!

Gavin Moore
Gavin Moore

why is that under communism a grocery bagger would be paid more than someone who dedicated years of study to write computer programs
wait are you serious
why are you here my dude? were you just curious about leftists

Mason Hill
Mason Hill

is his audi a v8 or a v10?

the v10 versions are fucking god-tier

Grayson Jackson
Grayson Jackson

This is like saying nobody should ever compensated because in the future their job will be automated.
No, everybody should because their job is automated.

Jordan Diaz
Jordan Diaz

I'm sure there are no grocery baggers that are paid $40/hr unlike programmers.

I get paid more which means that I work harder

How can anybody still believe that silly shit?

Anthony Gonzalez
Anthony Gonzalez

under communism a grocery bagger would be paid more than someone who dedicated years of study to write computer programs?
Where do you get that from?

Jonathan Ramirez
Jonathan Ramirez

therefore the issue of everyone taking my product for free is irrelevant.
Everyone will take everyone's product for free. That's the point.

Wyatt King
Wyatt King

communism
money

Oliver Ortiz
Oliver Ortiz

How do software engineers make money?

95% being paid to develop a product
4% proprietary software they make for general sale
1% paid by companies to develop open source products and add features to support bussiness

You are paid once to write it, you're not paid for the sale of muh copyright stuff.

how2muhvidyainsocialism
kickstarter for moneys
Donations
Use excess free time to produce shit nobody would be willing to donate money to
What is patreon

Adam Richardson
Adam Richardson

probably his asshole since he thinks there would be grocery baggers in communism

Luis Lewis
Luis Lewis

Copying and pasting that software requires 0 labor, therefore the product would be worth nothing. The only person who labors is the programmer who will never be compensated for the time he spent writing it.

Wrong. Also, computer programming is complex labour. It takes time to train the person and this is factored into the LTV. So not only is the price of the program paying for the labour invested directly IN the program, it's paying for the subsequent updates to the program as well as the training it typically takes the average worker to write a program on that relevant magnitude.

Yes, I think programming will eventually be automated but not for a long time. Perhaps at that point (where everything is automated besides computer programming) school programs can exclusively focus on computer programming.

you're paid in labor vouchers instead of cash, totally different!!

Labour vouchers are non-accumulative. They are thrown out after the initial use.

Logan Phillips
Logan Phillips

I think OP doesn't quite understand that the law of value operate in capitalism, and that the whole point of communism is precisely to abolish the law of value.

James Martinez
James Martinez

Copying and pasting that software requires 0 labor
wrong

wew

Jeremiah White
Jeremiah White

What?

Daniel Wood
Daniel Wood

Reeee muh property

Get cucked

Jacob Martin
Jacob Martin

It means you got skills which are more worthy to society than the other guy.

Thomas Adams
Thomas Adams

trips speak the truth.

Marx wasn't saying that all compensation should be about labor-time, he was describing what already occurs

finally someone says it like it be.

Henry James
Henry James

In case you're still here: the reason why you only got meme answers was because you framed your post like
how are you gonna handle this epic refutation huh?
meme argument showing completely wrong understanding of simple concepts of leftism

If you just frame your shit like an honest question people might help you.

Ayden Bell
Ayden Bell

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value
You fucked up

Jaxon Barnes
Jaxon Barnes

free lance programmer
This is the problem right here. In a society in which all labour is directly social there is no "free lance" enterprise, just as there is no independent enterprise in general. This leaves one of two options for any programmer: either the soviets/worker councils/whatever agree that your work is useful and should compensated accordingly, in which case you'd be paid 1000 hours minus necessary social deductions, or alternatively you'd just be doing it voluntarily (which would be the case for all work in the higher phase of communism).
The fact that your program is given away for free has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you get paid. After all, even in capitalism we still pay public school teachers even though we give their services away for free.

Andrew Anderson
Andrew Anderson

communism
company
sale

ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

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