Bring back tank controls

I'm not against fixed camera games. I really like games like Devil May Cry for instance. I just dislike having to fight against the game every time I wanna do something.

Like I thought giving Grim Fandango a point and click interface was a great idea.

Why not just give the player a choice between fixed angle and behind the character?
Fuck tons of PC games from 1998 - 2005 let you switch between first and third person on the fly.

I remember the last game that I played that did that was Metal Gear Solid 3 Subsistence

And almost everyone I know, including myself, used the Splinter Cell style camera. Because it was better.

So in other words I can use tank controls as the barrier of entry, perfect. So long as it's not an action game unless it's an actual tank.

Pretty sure that's the only game that did that, and its a bad example due to the game's style of level design, everything is wide open so the fixed camera just makes the game harder, however, the opposite is true in mgs 2 because the fixed camera lets you see much more due to the smaller size of the levels.

Fixed cameras are fine, it's the tank controls that are poor. I don't remember which, but I remember an old game that used 3d direction controls but with fixed cameras, and it just kept track of your movement direction when it swapped cameras so you kept moving the direction you were going before as long as you didn't move the stick to change direction. This mitigated a lot of the 'the camera changed and now my dude has turned and is running into a wall like a retard'.

I think a setup like that is perfectly acceptable.

Why?

This is how Devil May Cry controlled but it was still not the most ideal setup, I remember once DMC3 (iirc) let you control the camera I preferred that.

That's fine if you keep the same exact direction but it kinda fucks up when you want to adjust it.

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I fuckin love tank controls, but I can't get into classic RE cause of the fixed camera

Hi Pat.

DMC1 controls okay compared to a lot of action games from the same time period, it's just DMC3 controls better

It's hard to find another third game in a series that was just such a huge improvement on the original

Ok let me try to clean up this thread from nostalgia circlejerking and millenials whining about shit they don't understand, it's a fucking clusterfuck of idiots all around:

This post is aimed especially towards younger people that weren't around for this control scheme back in the day.

Tank controls are a TOOL.
The tank controls and fixed camera combo is used when it makes sense mechanically within the mechanical context of the game itself.
To understand how this works, play REmake HD, and switch between tank controls and modern controls, you'll notice that with modern controls you'll just run past fucking everything with minimal effort because the game clearly was DESIGNED AROUND TANK CONTROLS.

So the point here is, if you make a game that uses tank controls, you have to design the entire game around tank controls, they work fine if the game itself is built to work around them.
To understand tank controls even more, don't just limit yourself to RE titles, go play Onimusha 1-3, for example.

Most people, yourself included, hate tank controls because it's a SYSTEM, when people are faced with a system that they're not familiar with, they always hate it, people hate what they're not used to.
By learning that SYSTEM you will be able to use it to your advantage and enjoy the games that use it, and understand that even modern games can use this system if the devs design them to maximize what you can do with it.

It has the best applications when used in horror games but contrary to popular belief, it doesn't have to be exclusively used in horror games, you can use it in other genres and it'll work as well if you're creative enough, check out some of the PSX library to see other games that used it succesfully.

Dont get me wrong I'm nostalgic for games like Tomb Raider and shit but I never thought the game controlled well even at the time. I just played it because I didn't have any frame of reference for anything better. If I was a kid now and I tried playing Tomb Raider I'd hate it because I'm used to games playing much better.

No.

It's an inferior system no matter how you slice it is a good thing it's dead/dying.

Tank controls are terrible
I bet you also want l and r instead of right analogue stick to move in pfs also you fucking retarded idiot asshole

RE2make is in production.

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I love watching people bitch about tank controls. It's one of the few things in games I'm really good at.

tank controls aren't something that really need to be brought back
stressing the player out by making them fight with the controls is not how you make tension
the most perfect iteration of them would be from the original Dead Space, it made you feel cumbersome but not fucking retarded and was smooth enough to not feel like it got in the way of things

that's not much of an accomplishment. It's like being really good at that RC flying mission in GTA San Andreas. It doesn't change the fact it's a shit mission

Yeah it's not like REmake had tank controls.

Those controls are the exact same as a classic RE. The only thing different is the camera.

The REmake literally came out in 2002, like 14 years ago. Back then it was more justifiable. You could sell a game like Vice City in stores and people didn't mind.

That is unfortunate. REmake is a great game.

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the turning feels different
though if you're right maybe the big problem was the camera
all I know is DS plays smoother than RE

Why not just bring back RE4's controls but with the setting and ammo restrictions and actual fucking zombies of the earlier Resident Evils? RE4 had tank controls too, but with a tolerable camera angle.

Yes, tank controls are perfectly fine when the game is gimped to hell in order to compensate for the shitty controls.

I like tank controls, but only if the game includes some sort of strafing or sidestepping as well, movement feels awkward and limited otherwise.

I could do without tank controls if they bring semi-static angles back ala Haunting Ground. That game perfected the camera and controls.

I love RE4, but the thing with a camera that follows you is that while it's easy and intuitive to control, it doesn't have the personality of each different camera angle REmake has for example.

It's a shame there is nothing that can offer both, because I really love fixed cameras when the devs really know how to choose great angles.

Woops, was for

It's a shame, because I fucking love the pre-rendered backgrounds from RE0 (admittedly haven't played RE1-3 to completion), but just can't stand not being able to aim properly.

I have an idea, though. Combine the old camera views with the aiming from RE4, with a laser pointer giving you a rough idea of where you're aiming and having a large degree of freedom. That way you won't be wasting bullets on thin air as often.

As someone who has only recently played Silent Hill and Resident Evil within the last couple of years anyway I fucking LOVE tank controls, so I wouldn't say it's a nostalgic things at all.

Then again, I find most games of the current and last generation to be quite boring, so part of it could be my appreciation of the older games and how they were designed in general. I think Resident Evil 2 did a better job at creating a "cinematic experience" than most modern games.

How are you gonna make that work if the character is moving towards the camera in a certain angle?

You can't have the camera always behind the character unless you're making a perfectly linear game which wouldn't really be like a classic RE.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I mean the aiming (laser pointer) from RE4 but the camera angle of the previous games.

Play just like the old games, but being able to aim more directions than simply "up", "straight," and "down." That's my sole but major complaint with the earlier games.

I perfectly understood what you mean. Read my post again. How are you gonna make that work if your character is facing the camera?

hwat

I suppose it would be the same as the old games, in that case. It'd still be nice to know if I'm aiming at a zombie or slightly left of it in a normal room, though.

Classic RE games offer some play in aiming. Even if your gun is not aligned with the enemy, it will still hit if it's close enough. Source: I beat REmake over 10 times.

He means the 2015 HD re release.

RE0 HD also has tank controls as an option I think

And by close enough, I'm not talking about distance but aiming precision.

Also, the games have auto-aim and while you're holding the "raise gun" trigger, you can constantly press the other trigger to auto aim again.

I suppose the left-right aiming isn't my real issue but the lack of vertical aiming options. I'd like the option to aim slightly up, at a zombie's head, or slightly down, at a zombie's legs, but I don't recall ever seeing such a mechanic.

It's been awhile, so maybe there's some gameplay mechanic I'm missing, but kneecapping zombies should be standard, yo

99% sure you can raise and lower your aim, at least in RE1. You used it to get garuanteed 1 hit kills on enemies when they were very close.

After playing the classic RE games a lot I can understand why you can't headshot/kneecap a zombie from any distance: it would make the game too easy. Which is why you can only do it from close range.

It's the same reason why in REmake they made it so the shotgun doesn't decap a zombie 100% of the time like in the other games: They introduced Crimson Heads and if you could just decap any zombie with the shotgun, you'd never encounter any.

I sure love being unable to fucking strafe. I also love that every corner is a potential deathtrap when it has no right to be.
This control scheme is fucking stupid and I am happy it was lost. the last time I played a tank controls game it was Heavy Rain and it was uncomfortable to play.

anything that Mr. Shitface is against, I am for.

RE4 had tank controls.
Tank controls are meaningless to the quality of the game. As said the quality of the game has nothing to do with the method you control your character.

DMC1 has way more problems than the camera. Its just that the camera is such a huge one.
Not only that DMC3 is so much better that why would you even bother slogging through DMC1

Apparently, yes.

Grim Fandango had both character relative and camera relative controls; and camera relative controls absolutely sucks especially when the game changes camera angles.

fucking millenia hipster. next you will say that catod tube tv are the best

Whenever I need to turn around in a hurry I walk backward and rotate until I've reached a 90-degree angle, then walk forward and rotate in the opposite direction.

Remember how some games have extremely long loading times? Well, that's not the standard today, so clearly we should bring extremely long loading times back to avoid homogenization!

Tank controls are objectively shit and you're a fucking moron. If a developer isn't a complete idiot they can design the game to make up for the lack of shit controls.

And speaking of tank controls, they're fucking awful for horror games, unlike what so many retards think. In a horror game immersion is very important, and nothing kills immersion faster than 1. having your character be unrealistically clumsy and stiff (if you see that something is heading your way and is about to murder you, why the fuck would you not take a step to the side or throw yourself out of harm's way?) and 2. having a shitty control scheme get in the way of what you want to do. If your character doesn't at least have the basic mobility expected of a normal human in their situation, any and all immersion is completely lost.

Then design the fucking game with non-shit controls in mind, you goddamn retard. Make your enemies faster and/or smarter to make up for your ability to not stand like a moron on the spot as they rush you. Make your character lose a bunch of stamina and slowly get up if they throw themselves out of harm's way.

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I don't mind tank controls, but I never want to go back to the old fixed camera controls and no manual aiming style of the old RE games. In fact, really, it's mostly the manual aiming I want to keep, the different camera system is just basically required because it enables manual aiming.

Complaining about tank controls is the same as complaining about SNES games being 2D.

Some of my favorite games are all about tank controls. Gameplay-wise, it adds tension and it needs getting used to, in other words, you need to learn a new game-mechanic. While tank controls are clunky, it takes a certain understanding to be good at it. In RE3, you needed to learn how to dodge attacks to be any good at the higher difficulties. Tank controls have their merits, and I feel like they could be used to their full advantage better than 10 years ago.

Also, I liked that the camera was used to show the player the environments. The player gets shown what he needs to concentrate on, and levels wouldn't go to waste by the player running past everything and disregarding the level's environments.

In Crusaders, you can strafe, roll, and turn faster by holding down different buttons. Haven't played much old RE, but can it work with these controls?

I personally feel it depends how you want it to feel when you play these days, since a bunch of the technical limitations have been surpassed for years now.

I wouldn't mind a game with fixed, static camera angles, but when you go into a sort of 'aim mode', it switches to a first-person camera view, allowing manual weapon aim.

I have a feeling you don't own a console.

Honestly it's a bit jarring especially with the anti grav stuff
But when you get used to it you'll really have a ton of fun.

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Nope. You fix it by making your guy continue in the same direction you are holding during the camera change.

First it was vaporwave, now it's shit like this tank control hipsterism.

Friendly reminder that Gen Y = Millenials and Gen Z = underage faggots.

Pleas stop pointing the finger at the wrong people.

That doesn't really fix the problem.

Not really, It is just more appropriate for moving around in games where you look at you surroundings.

completely agree with you OP. Resident evil died with part 4. While I'd concede that it was a solid action game, it completely neutered the atmosphere and tension of the original 3, and basically buried all the magic of the series.

The stiff, unresponsive controls were a big part of that. Tank controls made every encounter tense and challenging, and made the player feel helpless and weak. This is the kind of feeling you want in a survival horror game to maximize scares.

other things that killed the RE franchise:
- endless ammo
- removal of safe save spaces
- large and open game environments
- daytime setting

REmake of part 2 when capcom?

You are a millenial.

not really but theres no reason a game should be forced to use any sort of control scheme.
limitations are a part of game design after all, but people like smoother shit in general including myself. that said i would like some wacky tank games, with actual tanks.

1-5 had tank controls by default, 6 had an option to use them, what the fuck are you talking about?

How does that work exactly? Does the new control scheme just forego the turning aniimation and just skips you which ever degrees to the direction you push in?

Tank controls were a product of their time and only work in fixed camera games where holding up to go forward was an advantage to the player because that way they know they won't run into the problem of getting stuck going back and forth between two of the camera angles.
Since we seldom see fixed camera angles in games anymore(Because hardware says we don't need it anymore) it's become obsolete because it's really not that necessary anymore.
In the modern era tank controls will probably only be used in low-poly "retro" indie trash once that becomes the big thing(It's getting there, give it 5 years tops)

How about they stop making RE games with the camera locked so close to the character?
ORC had a good camera I wish they made a second ORC with a better gameplay and less glitches/bugs

There is a game you are describing. Its call'd Cold Fear.
I feel old for knowing this

You feel old for knowing a game from 2005?

Knowing not so common games from early 2000s is considered not feeling old? If you say so.

2005 was 11 years ago, user.

No, fuck you. I actually lived through that era unlike you hipsters.
That shit was more overused than the cawadude style of FPS and it isnt better than the mechanics we have nowadays in a single way. Its just the games that dont take themselves seriously anymore and pander to braindead mongoloid console gamers dumber than a trained chimp.

That was the escape method for RE games, and im pretty sure they also had quick turning.

Basically. You're also basically running with the analog stick unless you nudge it lightly, and using the D-pad makes you walk.

I guess you would compare it to the 2D controls in the Silent Hill games on PS2? I dunno, never used them yet.

Holy fuck, what is it with people being totally unable to use tank controls?

I beat SH1 and RE1 when I was fucking 8 and I had zero difficulty navigating at all.

You watch anyone play those games these days and all they do is bitch about it and run into every enemy in the game.

Hell, why are so many people so awful at games in general?

RE1 was supposed to be an FPS at first and they intentionally changed it to fixed camera angles and a 3rd person perspective. Get out of here with your historical revisionist bullshit you cunt.

If you know about anything prior to 2007 you probably have no life and aren't a real gamer.

People think this way.

user tell me how old are you

Its not hard, its jist not popular so big companies dont try it. Its not like its stopping any indie from doing it. Just wait until people start getting nostalgic about the ps1/n64 era.

Thats a retarded view. What if Tim Schafer is pro breathing? Are you gonna stop breathing then.

What said. Tim Shitface is a delusional self-obsessed lefty stooge, and he all but literally takes pride in his ADHD and near-retard levels of inability to manage a budget, or indeed so much as understand the value of a dollar, but no one can legitimately claim that the man doesn't have at least a basic degree of competence when it comes to technical game design. He's one of the view SJW gamedevs that knows how to make a game.

To say that a decades-outdated and objectively clunky and disjointed control scheme is good just because it was disliked as a mechanic by a industry veteran (with credentials) whose current politics you oppose is the equivalent of a Holla Forumslack becoming an advocate of minority programs and welfare because he heard about Shillary's "super predators" debacle and decided that black teenage gangbangers can't be that bad if she hates them.

A big issue people have with tank controls is that it places movement restrictions that shouldn't be there. Anyone with functioning legs can sidestep so there's no reason why your character shouldn't be able to.
If you really want your game to control like that, put your character in a wheelchair or something so it would make sense why they'd have to deal that movement restriction.

Videogames have no obligation to mirror real life whatsoever, and realism has no impact on a games quality.

It's not unreasonable in any way to expect the normal human being on screen to be able to move like a normal human being. At the very fucking least offer an in-universe explanation as to why this normal human being has an arbitrary limit placed on their movement

Games like RE doesn't have side stepping but there are games which includes sidestepping and it's still very much tank controls. The irony of your post is that VR has shown that the standard for movement today isn't natural either.

Why doesn't Doomguy just jump?

Why can't I just shoot this wooden door open?

Why don't I have to worry about troop morale in C&C?

Why can't Sonic just shoot the robots in the face with a gun?

Games are based off of arbitrary rules to create challenge. You either adapt and succeed, or die.

The same reason he couldn't look up or down and tank controls existed: hardware limitations. Those limitations aren't present anymore and render those restrictions obsolete

No. There were plenty of games out before Doom where vertical movement was possible.

As has been stated previously, RE1 was originally going to be an FPS. Tank controls and fixed camera angles were a design choice.

you gotta be kidding user…

Hasn't every game besides 6 and Rev 2 been tank controls?

I keep seeing this hardware limitation bullshit but the PS1 is perfectly capable of doing standard control schemes. Shit man the standard analog control of FPS games today didn't become a thing until 2005.

People are too fucking stupid to handle tank controls.

Even here you'll have people whining about it. If every game doesn't control the same way, it's "dated".

These same people will then go on to complain about how every game is the exact same shit now.

user that's actually a fucking great idea for a survival horror game

pic unrelated

For older games it makes some sense. They have a far lower response time, and depending on the quality, they can have a little to a lot of ghosting, scan-lines, blurring, curvature, and other artifacts, which many older games were designed around, so they may look weirder on an LCD but perfectly fine on a CRT, because they were designed around the CRT artifacts. You can usually just get a good enough effect with either bilinear interpolation or a simple small blur filter, though.

For the vastly most part, it's just hipster shit though.

was meant for

So, Cold Fear aka the real Alone in the Dark 5.

go to half/vr/