Sandbox Survival?

Unreal World
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead

H&H is the best example to demonstrate why this kind of game should never feature multiplayer unless it's strictly co-op PVE.

It's the Prisioner Dillema (google it) or something closer to us: the DayZ Dillema.
When you have a bunch of a shit in DayZ, and someone comes along with a bunch of shit too, the same thought occurs to both of you: "I can kill this bloke and get all that for myself"
The other alternatives are: nothing, you go your own way peacefully or, you work together from now on.

So, simply it to:

If you're Hostile and he's hostile, one of you will die. If you're hostile and he's neutral/helpfull, he'll die (first shot advantage) and you get all that shit.
Same thing in reverse for him, except when you're both helpfull in which the results are not that great either: you get to ambush other players together for better odds of survival, but you're still diving shit amongs yourselves so you get diminishing returns.

So in the end, it's exactly like the prisioner dillema: players end up picking Hostile all the time because it's the option with the better odds and better rewards.

Problem is, that leads to the death of a community, and everyone is afraid of everyone.
For all the years DayZ and their clones have, you'll never see comunities larger than 4-5 guys pop up anywhere. Largest village I ever saw in H&H had 25 people. That is, 12 people with some using alts. And then 2 of them were actually Russians, who promptly fucked it up after it was ready for "harvest".
The other 10 people never played together again.
I was one of them.

Banished.
Unreal World
Dorf Fortress Adventure Mode
Project Zomboid
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead
H&H
State of Decay Year One
The Forest
Subnautica

Username its you?

CASUALS GET THE FUCK OUT

Banished obviously

Nah, it wasn't with the 8ch group that played it.
Back when people started threads here I was already wise enough to know their future.
I think I posted two or three times on the thread warning them to not get overly attached to their village.

Even though I didn't play with them, I still felt their sadness.

Mate, a game that rewards players for PVP with further advantage in PVP engagements always ends up the same way: someone is gonna get a large enough advantage, and then nothing can stop them.
And even if you think "well that's fair" you don't know shit about fair until you see how they operate. You'll play 10 hours a day tops. For a week. That's your definition of "hardcore".
To the Russians, "hardcore" means 20 hours a day running 10 diferent bots grinding for shit.

By the time you reach lvl 5, they're lvl 50.
All they have to do then is make sure you're never a threat. There's no fair-fights in H&H. It's always stomps.

...

It was an already abandoned village and i didn't check global map before. Whatever world was 2 year old with over 2k STR koreans/russians palibashers.

And that is why Sandbox Survival isn't a genre that provides good PVP experiences.

PVP is at it's best when it's 50/50 win chance. When it's do or die, close calls and sometimes a bit of luck. Stomps are fun once a month at most, or for actual casuals who think BIGGER NUMBERS = SKILL.

Sandbox Survival is a genre defined by this:

The simplest example being Minecraft. Two main obstacles to your survival: Hunger and Monsters.
You start foraging and hunting for shit. It's hard, and not guaranteed. Make a farm? It's easy to get food, but it doesn't fill you very much so you won't get far. But the vegetables you grow allow you to breed animals and now you removed the Hunger problem.
Monsters? Make your first Iron Armour + Iron sword and 70% of the mobs are no longer a threat. Eventually you get a full Diamond set, enchant it and Swarms of mobs or the harder mobs become trivial. Not to mention alchemy. Another problem solved.

Now intersect PVP with this. Players who just started are already getting shafted by the environment. Some ruskie comes along and shafts you too, you really can't do much.
And why wouldn't him? It's not like he needs your meager resources, he has buttloads of it.
What he needs is to ensure you never overcome enough obstacles to grow and become a threat to him.

Even MOBAS figured out that their shit gameplay can be made slightly more fun if you add mechanics that allow for comebacks. Someone scores 20 kills in a row? If you kill that guy, you get enough gold to make a comeback. Maybe. Not guaranteed. But the chance is there.

In H&H there never were mechanics like that. After you cross a certain point, you become too visible on the map, and the ruskies come for you.
Doesn't help that they also use worldmappers and custom clients.

People who complain about ASSFAGGOTS comunity should play H&H. They really have no idea what a "shitty comunity" is like.

Yeah, that's their MO.
10 alts.
9 will farm resources, food and artifacts
Those 9 will feed it all to the one combat character.
They usually reach 500 STR in 2 or 3 days after a world reset. You know, when most people still have 20 or 30.

7 days to die highly recommend

I live in Burg village as Brick Wall builder They pay curios - 3 man build huge brick wall for one/two days and as Cook/low farmer 300 farming skill in russian "Time Paradox" village in 5-6 world. I see this mindless STR farming and CHR farming (for battle de/buffs) but i cant imagine how koreans grind over 1k STR.

Also all this russian imbeciles gang village from "Mitishi" was 15 years old.

You know, this isn't too terrifically hard to solve. You just have to alter the risk reward balance of the dilemma. Make it so that cooperation necessary for advancement, and killing other players carries significant penalties. EVE Online is a great example of a well balanced system of this sort.

Don't think I've seen one of those in a few years now.

This is an obvious shill thread.

You're trying so hard to fit in, you're gonna meld inside the walls.

True, but the fact that most devs are more interested in making a quick buck than developing and nurturing a good game doesn't mean it can't be done.

Don't fall for this shit. Wild Terra is pay to win. Linkrealms is shit. THe only remotely good looking one is Shards Online.

The DayZ Community has died? Good. When did this happen?

Co-op PVE with no PVP is for children and women. Can't handle the heat then get the fuck out.

We talk about H&H system. Get out.

PVE + PVP is for people that want to farm 40 hours in a row while pissing in bottles and eating tendies so they can stomp other people and feel power over something in their pathetic life.

Co-op is for using comunication, timing and strategy with friends to overcome obstacles.

PVE is for you to play alone.

PVP is for you to be challenged by someone else.

None of these 3 go well together unless a lot of care and gameplay mechanics go into it.

Dayz had none. The comunity is streamers, squeakers and hackers. And the ocasional player that got it a few hours ago and has now idea what he wandered into.
Luckyly it takes roughly 20 minutes to be sniped from someone shooting throught the terrain, be outganked from 200 yards by /k/ in person and his 3 friends, and then discovering that there's fuck all to do when you're not getting murdered.

So much for PVEVP.

Ultima Online says otherwise.
PvPers and PvE inhabited the same world fine.

That's how shit all attempts were.

They were fine because death meant you lost your gear, but kept your stats.
You could easily re-adquire gear and even duel the faggot again to reclaim your old shit.

Sandbox Survival games aren't just gear. They're about the shit you build too.
Depending on the game you're playing, you could be looking at 8-10 hours of work.
If you kill a player and demolish something that took him 8 hours to build in less than 10 minutes, don't be surprised when that guy doesn't want to play anymore. In his perspective, you have a base+gear, he has nothing. And when he's half done rebuilding, you're gonna come for his shit again.

Repeat a couple of times and voila: dead game.
I'm pretty much telling you how H&H goes, but I've seen the same on Minecraft servers and other minor survival games.

I know that Rust is infamous for this, since hacking is rampant as fuck, you can spend a few hours building a nice pallisade and discover that half the server will just noclip through it.

...

That sounds interesting, I want such a game too. But the one in your screenshot looks retarded. A tribe of women couldn't get anything done.

They could get my dick sucked.

Is that what happened to you?

they are all the same