Let's have a sober discussion. What did Lenin do wrong?

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Agreed.

Also Makhno > Catalonia

Well the Cheka is a hot topic to be sure. They definitely engaged in excesses, and War Communism was pretty terrible in general. That being said it's likely that the whites would have won without it, which in my view means that while ugly it was ultimately the right call.

In my view the biggest mistake was the fact that he saw Stalin as a power hungry piece of shit and didn't really do much to deal with him.

what did they mean by this?

Why didn't Lenin just appoint a successor after his second stroke?

kek.

what do you mean

simply renewed pre-war bureaucracy
lenin and his clique were right deviants of the left

didn't give the workers the control of the means of production

Probably that Lenin didn't foresee the power struggle that would take place after his death and how poor the

And that isn't just Lenin to Stalin. The transition of power from Stalin to Khrushchev, Khrushchev to Brezhnev, Brezhnev to Andropov, Andropov to Chernenko to Gorbachev were all clusterfucks.

oops never finished post.

meant to say how ill suited the government was for all the infighting that would follow

this t b h

wow its like that whole vanguard chairman ideology was all a clusterfuck

It's funny and interesting how nonchalantly and easily early bolsheviks adopted this attitude, perhaps during friendly meetings with tea and cigarettes, they didn't even foresee all mutations of it and its final metamorphosis into a morbid ideology.

Not establishing democratic and transparent institutions

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I think that state capitalism was simply always the intention. If the guy wanted socialism he would do as makhno did

Lenin didn't do anything wrong, he was a victim of the material conditions of the time. Simply moving from a semi-feudal society to modernity in itself was a tall order and Russia was isolated while being far behind the west. Thus the only logical solution was revolution in the industrial world to pull Russia out of its backwardness.

At the time that average Russian was illiterate because the education system of the Tsar was non-existent. It is true Russian were learning under this new system but this new generation of educated Russians was not ready to be in administrative roles till end of the 1920's.

Bruh. Different people have different ideologies. You can't be like "he didn't do it this way therefore his intentions were not legitimate."

Then you haven't read a line of his works.

Nice racism, dickwad. What are you even doing here.

Stop bullshitting us with your bro-history. Marx himself admitted in his latest works a remarkable revolutionary potential of the narodniks. Bolsheviks didn't capture a totally uneducated country, that's what they wanted everyone to believe, but the truth is, for more than 5 years they brutally supressed popular revolts and movements of the 'primitive' peasantry, that constituted the majority of Russia, in their crazy utopian pursuit of 'proletarian dictatorship' (in the least industrialized country of Europe, really? How alienated and attached to their illusions they were?).

This is just pure paranoia.

His idea of a vanguard party was never compatible with socialism.

The proletariat is international by essence.

And the peasantry is national by essence. In the end it doesn't matter whatsoever. Tell me why something national by essence can't be revolutionary, while something international can? This is pure scholasticism. Grandpa Karl understood it clearly. Late 19 century's Russian peasant movements were truly and deeply socialistic, they knew what they were talking about, it was their life and their bread. Unlike those radical left students and urban intellectual circles that were extremely indoctrinated and opinionated.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I was merely pointing out the fact that the dictatorship of the proletariat cannot be anything but international. Thus, Russia being the less industrialised country in Europe doesn't matter.

Oh man, where do I start?

Suppression of cooperatives and worker's self management in favor of state control and, during the NEP, foreign capitalists. Though, I will admit that he realised this was a mistake and attempted to correct it by 1923, years too late.

Who gives a damn about the dictatorship of proletariat? Yet again I have to remind halfwits that Marx himself wasn't a marxist-leninist, lol.

Marx and Marxists.

Neither was Lenin.

No. As I showed before, lately he grew sceptical of the indisputable role of the proletariat in the revolution.
who are these dinosaurs?

You mean: as you claimed before.

be a kike

No. I sure showed you.

Where?

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That, my friend, is a claim. A proof would be a citation of Marx.

It wasn't so much that Lenin fucked up, it was that the expected revolutions abroad failed.

IIRC Lenin once described the USSR as a fortress under seige awaiting relief; the revolutions that had gained some traction like those in Germany and Italy underestimated the willingness of the state to stand against the revolution (for example the Friekorps in Germany).

I think Luxemburg makes several fair criticisms of Lenin and the Bolshevik party's actioms, but the lack of international support is what set the USSR down the path it took.

As a result the USSR never was presented with an opportunity to make strides towards genuine socialism; it was perpetual "war communism".

Absoluletly nothing

if a heaven exists lenin, marx and engels would be the only ones there. they are the only men in our time worthy of being called human

Literally nothing

Totally nada

Even if Lenin had done everything the right way the revolution would've still failed as it was already doomed due to its isolation. So the question isn't what he had done wrong, but rather why he had done these things. For example war communism, the NEP, support for national liberation etc.

Lenin was a committed revolutionary, "state" capitalism was only a means for preserving the revolution against imperialist attacks. What he didn't know was that it was a symptom of the degeneration of the revolution.

Marx was obsessed with the russian peasantry tbh

the Russian revolution was made solely by peasants dressed as soldiers. Marxists fooled the world into thinking that there was some 'workers' vanguard' behind it.

Yeah that's probably why they put a peasants' tool on their flag.

And the Marxists were the vanguard.

But the narodniks, who were a tiny group, tried to educate and enlighten the masses with little success. That's probably why they had a split - that and because of tsarist repression - with some becoming terrorists trying to assassinate the tsar.

The average Russian wasn't brain dead, but they were far removed from the intellectual sphere most narodniks were part of, making it difficult to explain ideas that opposed the orthodox chruch and the tsar, whom many peasants were still loyal to.

The bolsheviks did some awful shit, but the average russian tended to be poorly educated and conservative when compared to the citizens from countries like Germany who would have at least been exposed to some proletarian ideas.

Pic would be narodniks after 1881

then why peasantry opposed the White Guards during the civil war? why did it devastate the old order with its emperors, churches and courts if it was so conservative?

You realise words like "reactionary" or "conservative" make sense only in regard to a specific revolution.
One can be revolutionary regarding the transformation of feudalism into capitalism, and yet conservative regarding the transformation of capitalism into communism.

I'd say they were pretty conservative when they abandoned the narodniks after the assassination of Tsar Alexander in 1881.

The peasantry had to have known the shit the whites were carrying out and known if they did nothing they'd be greeted with the white terror.

Old order was overturned due to shit conditions in factories and, i may be wrong here, but fields as well. Plus, the humiliating loss to the Japanese in 1905 didn't gain the tsar any new fans.

And your focusing too much on the "conservative" part. The people were poorly educated and didn't understand the ideas the narodniks, and later, the marxists would advocate.

You can see why lenin and trotsky did what they did to democracy during the civil war. Not saying it was justified, but you can see why they would think that way.

So when the Graf Zeppelin flew over rural Russia in 1929 the locals ran in fear because….?

So, what was it exactly, that was removed? What is this alternative that is being constantly suggested, but never implicitly described? I never understood this part.

Compared to Czarism (or February Bourgiestan) "far removed" structure was much closer to citizens. Moreover, if we take actual workers, local "bureaucratic structure" was much closer to contemporary Soviet workers rather than to American.

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He did, though. It was expressly a worker's state. You can argue it degenerated, but Lenin was working tirelessly to preserve the proletarian nature of the RSFSR at the time of his death.

Holy shit, anarkiddies are trully wonderfull creatures.

He took lessons from the Paris Commune, in the sense that the revolution should somehow be protected in a way. But he went way too far and the Bolsheviks in general were fetishizing revolutionairy violence.

He also didn't put up a good structure for long term revolutionary victory. It is way easy to abuse by its successors.

wewe

I honestly wonder if he didn't in his heart know that he was killing the potential for socialism. I mean, he was forced to see all the revolutions he'd put his hope into fail in Germany, Austro-Hungary and the Netherlands.

At some point I think he realized that State Capitalist would become the permanent situation, I'd rather praise him for having the decency to not call the continued system of exploitation "Socialism" like Stalin.

This is the most tankie copypasta ever made, 9/10, only mistake is not calling Zizek a excellent, racist fascist.

Because it's not a monarchy, you got to be elected kiddo

Stop necrobumping everything you stupid moustache

So, what's the right type of socialism that your implying there m8, whats your sugestion, your alternative, or you just trot parroting faggot?

He killed the people he didn't like.

he was a great union owner, but he let the wrong moderator take over in his absence.