How many of the nine divines can you name

It's the Eight and One, heretic.

Jyggalag sends his regards.

Don't know how I missed Hircine, either. He tends to be one of the few I often I think about. However, it took me a bit to remember ol' Herma Mora existed, and I just beat the MQ of Dragonborn. The other three I'm not surprised about, though.

Akintosh
Azula
Mahrun Dagon
Shumagorath
Clavicus Vile
Septum
Talos

And that's all I can name. Not sure if I spelled them right or anything.

In this moment I am euphoric, not because of any phony *edra's blessing, but because I am enlightened by my own CHIM

I bet you think they stopped the Oblivion Crisis, too, piss-skin.

Considering eight of the Nine form the physical laws of the universe, and the other was someone who attained CHIM and became a divine through the power of the architect of physical reality, I'd say they all quite qualify as gods.

If you want to be technical, there aren't even sixteen Princes, faggot. Sheogorath (and Jyggalag with him), Malacath, and Mehrunes Dagon are not "proper" Princes. Making the number thirteen.

Mephala comes pretty easy to someone who played through Morrowind, because of her being one of the seven mentioned most in that game.

The one I always have trouble remembering is Namira. Dumb slut.

lol

Step up your game, nigga.

I never really found Mephala interesting, though, and there are so many "M" names among the princes that I tend to merge them together in my head.

Hello

True enough.

You know what I'd like to see? What the Lesser Daedra who serve some of the other princes look like. What the hell serves Vaermina, for instance?

Bye.

HISSSSSST

...

There's a reason the dwarves all disappeared and yet the faithful remain.
Aedra: 1
Dwarves: 0

Get away from me

Divines:
Akatosh
Arkay
Zenithar
Julianos
Kynareth
Mara
Dibella
Talos
???
Lorkhan

Daedric Princes:
Vaermina
Sheogorath
Jyggalag
Meridia
Mephala
Clavicus Vile
Molag Bal
Malacath
Azura
Namira
Sanguine
Nocturnal
Perythe
Boethia
hunter dude whose name I've forgot
Mehrunes Dagon
???

Also requesting the pantheons of other cultures with Trinimac, etc.

it's like pottery

literally who?

Haha three of them aren't even the divines sheit.

I think it was the merchant god goy

Why is Dagon not a proper prince?

Mehrunes Dagon was originally the Leaper Demon King, who stored away a piece of each Kalpa. He was cursed by Alduin into his current state, and tasked to destroy the pieces of the previous worlds which he had attempted to use to kill Alduin. Hence he is the Prince of Destruction, doomed to forever seek after those remnants of the prior worlds, but forever trapped in Oblivion.

The faithful almost disappeared too. If it wasn't for the dragonborn, akatosh would have completely destroyed nirn.

Also, in short:
Akatosh - Time
Arkay - Life & Death
Zenithar - Commerce
Stendarr - Mercy/Justice
Dibella - Fucking
Mara - Love
Kynareth - Nature
Julianos - Magic
Talos - Badass

There's a lot more to it than that, though.

Alduin ent Akatosh
Akatosh and Alduin are both part of Aka-Tusk
Alduin =/= Akatosh

Akatosh
Arkay
Dibella
Julianos
Kynareth
Mara
Stendarr
Zenithar
Talos

Where's my reward?

Akatosh didn't want to destroy nirn, which is why he sent the dragonborn which was a part of him to stop alduin who is also a part of him
Akatosh is insane

What the hell is a Kalpa? Some cyclical hindu bullshit?

What role exactly does Julianos fulfill? I know Magic comes to Nirn through Magnus hole but what does Julianos do?

I'm pretty sure the dwarves could have stopped alduin, that is if they weren't so fucktarded with the aetherium forge and destroyed themselves.

If Magnus is the god of Magic, Julianos is the god of organized magecraft. Something like that, at least. It's a lot of semantics and bullshit.

He's also the god of video game design, interestingly enough.

Yes, the TES world is cyclical. Each world is a Kalpa. Hist and Dreugh are both from prior Kalpas. Redguards may be as well.

Magnus is the god of magic overall.
Julianos is the god of wisdom, scholarship, organized magic, logic, and law.

Basically.

The disappearance of the Dwemer had nothing to do with aetherium. Numidium probably could have beat the shit out of Alduin if it wasn't trapped in time somewhere.

You're thinking of Zenithar, although he's a god of work as well as commerce.

But Magnus is gone

How exactly does a Kalpa end/begin? I would assume that everything from the previous one gets destroyed no?

He did leave, but the fuckhuge hole he left (the Sun) helps fuel the magic iirc.

Azura, Akatosh, Beshaba?

Alduin eats it.

If I'm not mistaken, the creatures who were Daedric spirits in the prior Kalpa become the Aedric spirits of the next one. I remember reading something that pointed out how Peryite, though one of the weakest Daedric Princes, might do a reverse and become the next Dragon God of Time. I'm not sure if that was Word of God or Word of Overeager Fan, though.

The current kalpa is supposed to end with Alduin eating the world. After the events of Skyrim, whether he will somehow return and do so is up for debate. Presumably the new kalpa will begin in a similar way to the current one.

Nope. The Hist survived. Redguards might also be from the previous kalpa.

A kalpa is what each cycle in the Elder Scrolls universe is. The god head dreams up of different worlds and each time that specific cycle/world/kalpa gets destroyed.

...

Yeah, with his departure he tore a hole to Aetherius (the sun/Magnus) through which magic comes to Nirn and the stars are basically the same thing left behind by the Magna-ge which would mean Meridia also isn't a "real" Daedric Prince or?

Also speaking of Aedra/Daedra I have this little theory about the whole wheel thing 8/16 and stuff. Wouldn't the addition of a 9th divine necessarily mean the addition of more Daedric Princes to complete the wheel? With Sheogorath becoming a full one in the Shivering Iles expansion can we expect a new Daedric Prince in the next game?

akatosh
kynareth
magnus
talos
vivec
armok
julianos

What sphere of influence is left for a Daedric prince to govern?
I think the 16 we have cover most, if not all, spheres in general.

oblivion is fucking garbage.

even if you mod everyone to look pretty instead of like massive fucking faggots.

There is still loads of room for more. Some of them are already pretty similar and it's not a problem. Also there are 17 princes

Talos isn't another spoke in the wheel, though. He is a reinforcement to it.

How does that work?

Ah well, hopefully any new editions won't be pants-on-head retarded.
Hermaeus Mora will forever be my homeboy, though.
Right, Jyggy always escapes me, since I usually count him with Sheogorath.

Maybe because Talos sort of fills in Lorkhan's place.

But Lorkhan is "dead" isn't his corpse literally Masser/Secunda? I thought he had no part in the creation of Nirn, he just tricked the other Aedra to do it.

yeah, one's called your mom

Yes, Lorkhan is dead, and yes, the moons are (probably) his corpse, but his absence created a metaphysical vacuum, and Talos filled it.
Also, the three people that became Talos were probably all Shezzarines.
That's also why that ghost in Old Hroldan in Skyrim thinks that you're Hjalti when he sees you. You (and all/most of the other player characters in the series) are a Shezzarine, just like Hjalti.
If the Thalmor really do want to unmake reality, banning Talos worship makes perfect sense.

Reymon Ebonarm, and uh… uh… that's all I know.

:^) Ayy Meow.

Also, to the Loremasters here…
What happens now, after Skyrim? Alduin's dead. And not dead as "maybe he'll get better" but dead as "someone came and ate your soul, dude".
That dragonwyvern has a role to play out when the world ends he just jumped the gun there but now that he's gone… Who ends this kalpa? Does it not end? What happens to a kalpa if it doesn't end? What happens to the other kalpas? Or to the *Edras now?

talos, akatosh, oblivion, dagoth ur, vivec, sheograth, that's as many as I can remember

Let me see how many I got right.

I did alright…

It's left up in the air whether he's dead dead. Paarthurnax says as such. Now, Kirkbride says he's dead for good, but he isn't the ultimate authority of all TES lore, and that was in what's basically glorified fanfiction.

Fuck off Thalmor homos.

Easy

Akatosh, Mara, Zenithar, Stendarr, Kynareth, Dibella, Arkay, Julianos

Zenithar
Talos
Arkanos
Reydablabla
Azura jk i'm not that stupid
Seppidabla?

Oh Stendaar is definetly one.
Mara too.

Fuck I give up, let me look at the thread now.

...

Oblivion is rip off of DooM

Mara, Dibella, Akatosh, Stendarr, Arkay, Kynareth, Julianos

I used to know em, but I keep thinking of Daedra names now. I guess thats what happens when you stray away from the light.

Something else will destroy it eventually. Maintaining the cosmos is a trillion-year balancing act, and you only have to fall once for it all to be destroyed.

The Thalmor are likely. They want to destroy the Towers that hold Nirn together.

But that's the whole deal with the Dragonborn. He's an aspect of Akatosh and he literally devours Dragon Souls. Technically, he's just getting the little parts of Akatosh that are roaming the world back to him so they aren't entirely destroyed.
However, since Alduin was "devoured" by the Dragonborn then there's no way he's gonna show up anymore.

However, if Alduin's soul is now part of the Dragonborn… Maybe he's the one that ends the world now? Or whoever gets that guy's soul?

You should try Hist Sap instead of Skooma. Does a lot better for your brain cells, Nord.

So the Thalmor are Morgoth from Lotr?

I think Bethesda will use the events of Skyrim to justify a never-ending kalpa.

Morgoth didn't want to destroy the world, he wanted to create his own. But he couldn't, so he had to resort to reshaping it in his own image. But he was working against the fundamental nature of the world, so everything he altered became ruined and twisted.

Yeah, but Alduin eats the world and a new one is reborn after that. If the Thalmor do the same, who's to say that there will be a new world if their foundations are destroyed?

Or maybe who the fuck knows? Maybe a new kalpa is formed anyway but with different rules and foundations if the previous ones are destroyed. Perhaps even with new Gods which is why the current ones probably don't want this one to fall.
Or maybe no kalpa is formed and everyone get's to live in whatever place the Gods are now?
Fuck, I'm falling for the Thalmor propaganda.

But he specifically wanted to destroy the 2 lights. Idk what they were called, but the lights were important.

I think they were actually more than 2 lights and after the first were destroyed they created a pair again.

He definitely did have a thing with the two lights. Originally they were lamps, and he destroyed them. Then the lights were poured into the Two Trees, and he and Ungoliant destroyed them again. I think he only did it because they were a source of power and pride for the other Valar.

Also, after the Two Trees were destroyed, their last flowers became the Moon and Sun.

azura
sanguine
malacath?
akatosh?
jiggilag/his alter ego that i can't remember

You're right. Lamps than they were trees.

That's what I wanted to say. Parallel to the Thalmor wanting to destroy the "2 towers" or whatever they are.

Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard
Todd Howard

Thought the second time that was exclusively Ungoliant.

There are many more than two, and each tower also has its own key. From what I remember, Red Mountain, the Throat of the World, and the Ivory Gold Tower are all towers. I know there are more, but I can't exactly remember what they are. I think Numidium may be one, but I can't exactly remember.

Well, their existence isn't tied to the world's in the same way that the towers in TES are. I think each province has a tower, but I could be misremembering. Hammerfell has Direnni Tower, Cyrodiil the White-Gold Tower, Skyrim the Throat of the World, Morrowind the Red Mountain, Alinor had Crystal-Like-Law…I can't remember any others.
Also, Morgoth apparently had a slight change of heart, since he later tried to keep the Silmarils, rather than simply destroy them.

???
The quote you gave says that Melkor did it:

Was referring specifically to
That's directly attributing Ungoliant to the cause of the Trees' destruction.

Vivec's feminine side
Vicec's gay side
Vivec's bisexual side.
Vivec the poet
Vivec the monk
Vivec the CHIMney sweeper
Sotha Sil.
Sotha Sil Mecha Version.
Almy.

also pic related, who would you fuck, marry and kill?

I know nuthin' about the towers in tes lore. I feintly remember now that the throat of the world and the white-gold tower are important for some reason mythologically/methaphysically.

Oh. Fair enough. Though I'd say they're both responsible.

The towers "hold up" the world in a metaphysical sense. It's not well-defined, but that's part of what makes it interesting.

I played this game already. I chose Kill, Kill, 2late.

They hold Nirn on reality

Fuck Almalexia repeatedly, marry Sotha Sil so we can do sweet science together, and kill Vivec because he's a bit of an obnoxious twat.

you don't know how to play this game, user

that's what I said, user-kun

I'm sorry. Pic related is how I feel now.

What happened in the beginning, before the first Kalpa? Someone got bored and decided on Creation.

It'll happen again, eventually.

I forgive you this time. Next time bring something new to the table, then repeating what I said, but acting condescending like you just corrected me.

The world is somebody's dream. Before the first dream, they were presumably awake.

That's just Europe.

Alright, nigger, don't rub it in. I wasn't trying to be condescending at all.

that's_the_joke.jpeg

you're a genius, user

np, I just wanted to have it be said

Was that image done by someone who didn't see that it was actually europe?
'cause if so, that's kinda funny.

Talos
Akatosh
Julianos
Kynareth
Dibella
Zenithar
Mara
Arkay
Stendarr

that last one actually took me a couple minutes.

get that Thalmor propaganda outta here

Fuck the divines
They're so generic that they ruined Skyrim's lore by being forced in there instead of the skyrim versions of the divines
Now the Yokudan pantheon, those are some fucking gods
And I can't name a single fucking saint of the Tribunal Temple, but the Tribunal alone makes it infinitely more interesting as a religion

I assume it's someone applying standard fantasy map tropes to a map of Europe. Then again, Poe's Law.

everytime

...

...

It's making fun of people who unfairly criticize fantasy maps, which has to be the most niche thing ever.

...

...

buddha
40k guy
jackie chan

Talos, Stendarr, Mara, Kyne/Kynareth, Tsun/Zenithar, Auriel/Akatosh, Dibella, Julianos…

How the fuck could I forget Arkay?

Be careful what you say, user. Those Divines are the developers.

Molag Bal - Rape and domination - Mace of Molag Bal
Mehrunes Dagon - Change and destruction - Mehrunes' Razor
Sheogorath - Madness - Wabbajack
Azura - Twilight - Azura's Star
Meridia - Hates the undead - Dawnbreaker
Nocturnal - Darkness - Nightingale equipment
Sanguine - Debauchery and vice - Sanguine Rose
Hircine - The hunt - Saviour's Hide/Ring of Hircine
Hermaeus Mora - Knowledge - Oghma Infinium
Peryite - Disease - Spellbreaker
Clavicus Vile - Wishes - Mask of Clavicus Vile/Rueful Axe
Namira - Rot and decay - Ring of Namira
Malacath - God-king of the Orsimer and patron of the spurned - Volendrung
Mephala - Whispers and secrets - Ebony blade
Boethiah - I don't remember - Ebony mail

Fuck, I forgot Vaermina

You also forgot Jyggalag.

how is a mace supposed to help you rape?

I count Jyggalag in Sheogorath, although I don't remember whether or not he was separated from the cycle of the Grey March after the events of Oblivion.

Molag Bal's sphere is domination - rape falls under that. It's pretty easy to see how a big spiky mace might help you dominate someone.

Use your imagination. Mace in anus.

I think he was set free.

why do the dunmer worhship obviously evil gods?

Not only is it summer, it's seemingly a half/v/ summer as well.

well then where would you put your dong?

Jews..

JEWS everywhere.

THE GOYM KNOW. SHUT IT DOWN.

mace in dong
dong in anus
therefore mace in anus

your mace is the dong
fuck you vivec, I'll rape you with literally myself

None of the spheres which the daedra control are inherently evil, even if they might at first seem so to us.

Kill yourself already.

thats next level. i dont have the mindset for this "rape" thing

Mephala can be seen as an avatar of betrayal, or as an avatar of the social bonds and complexities between people. Boethiah can be seen as evil, or her sphere can be seen as being related to making your mark on the world. Azura is pretty benign. I wouldn't personally fuck around with Mephala or Boethiah, but if you really do think the world is a test, I can see how a misguided or naive religion could end up worshiping them.

Vag, obviously. What are you, gay?

Considering how the Dunmer became Dunmer, I think it's pretty easy to see why they believe existence to be a test.

Talos is the best god
Mer get out

So benign that she cursed an entire race because they didn't worship her enough.
So benign that she lead several heroes to their death because of she wanted some petty revenge,
So benign that she lies to her followers 24/7. She can totally see the future guys, it's just super blurry and unclear. :^)
Vivec gave her exactly what she deserved.

Not to defend Azura, but wasn't that more for betraying the trust of Nerevar and tampering with the life-spark of the world in the process?

It's summer in the southern hemisphere as well, they just think summer is cold there.

it's not a matter of mindset but rather chimset.

Isn't Mephala supposed to know a fuck load of secrets? Talking with her can reward you with great knowledge, provided you can pay the price.

Come on, Man. We're all Lorkhan here. Even the Gods.

Still better than most Daedric prices.

...

Talos mantled Lorkhan, which means he's the closest out of all of us to Lorkhan
He walks the walk so well that the dreamer can't distinguish between the two
That means he's still the best god

But Sanguine is still a total bro

I already said I'm not defending Azura, but you wilfully being ignorant of what happened is just as bad.

So why did she curse the entire Dunmer race when she could have cursed the three responsible?

Azura rarely, if ever, outright lies. Her sphere is "twilight" which really just means ambiguity. Everything about her is half-truths.

No, it isn't, you tard.

Presumably because those four (Vivec, Sotha Sil, Almalexia, Dagoth Ur) were now living gods thanks to the heart of Lorkhan, and could resist a direct curse.

>Implying sending the Nerevarine after Dagoth Ur, freeing the heart, and relinquishing their powers wasn't her curse upon them

hey girls have butts that need stuffing

But that's what the mace is for.

It's past 21 of June, it's summer everywhere on planet Earth. Unless you're talking about Nirn, Mars or Discworld, it's Summer on the south Hemisphere, bruvenor.
They don't get winter while we get summer, they just get the cold instead.

It's winter in the southern hemisphere, you dolt. Seasons aren't determined by the Earth's position in its orbit around the Sun, they're determined by the position of its axis.

Seasons are determined by the calendar, temperature is determined by the axis. You gonna tell me it's 28 December down there too?

And the Axis fucking tell you it's Summer so you better start tanning that skin or we're gonna "Save Private Ryan" on your ass!

I want this meme to end

False.

Why are sunsets red then?

ur mum :^)

Part of the problem is that occasionally the writers will just add in a god that doesn't quite fit in (Hircine being the god of werewolves despite the other Daedric Princes having more abstract focuses, Lorkhan being a tenth divine, eleventh if you count Ebonheart, &c) so they have to explain it away in lore by saying "oh, not all of the races have the same pantheon," even though most of the gods are clearly directly interfering with the world and many of them are tangible and physical beings.

Aren't Akatosh, Alduin, the dragonborn and all the other dragons part of Auriel? Like the triunity in roman catholicism for example

And shouldn't you list the whole Tribunal?

Also where would the Shezzarine fit in all this?

Alduin is a shard of Akatosh who is also insane and the Dragonborn is a shezzarine of Lorkhan.

Well the challenge was to name all of the Divines that you could, and I wanted to be honest and not wiki it. I'd probably know the whole Tribunal if I'd actually finished Morrowind, and I have trouble memorizing all of the Daedric Princes since they only ever seem to play significant roles in the late game most of the time.

Auriel is a name for the elven god of time, which is normally identified with Akatosh, who created the dragons. I think Alduin was the first dragon but I'm not sure. If there's any more nuance to their relationship then I haven't heard about it, but there are probably books on the subject that I haven't read.

Worship of the more "evil", though not all, known as the Four Corners of the House of Troubles (Malacath, Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, Sheogorath) is frowned upon.

A Shezzarine's soul is a fragment of Lorkhan's.

FTFY

So everyone is a shezzarine, uh?
I fucking love the khajiit lore and their entire world view, probably because it's the actual right one

Not even close. Lorkhan convinced the Aedra to make the world, but he's not the ancestor of everyone.

I thought that Molag Bol's dick was shaped like a spear. Does he have two penises now? A spear and a mace?

It's just funposting, fam.

This is morrowind we are talking about, it's hard to tell

I'm not saying he's our daddy, I'm saying he's you and me and the guy next door. He just reincarnates every time he dies into another person in a different time and place, and ends up being everyone at the same time.
Must make the Aedras and Daedras really mad, seeing an entire world that's just one guy going over and over again until he gets bored and jumps to the next kalpa.

Talos and julianos

I've always liked Argonian philosophy myself, if only because it's a very brotherly and secular worldview. My only real problem with it is that the only god they really revere is the god of murder and assassinations, which kind of fucks that up.

But that's wrong. Every part of it. Not everyone is a Shezzarine, in fact very few people are. And every soul reincarnates, via the Dreamsleeve.

Again, this is wrong. His soul is shattered, and the two moons are his dead body.

Nothing (normally) survives between kalpas. The only current exception is the Hist, and maybe the Redguards.

All 9, but everyone posted them already so whatever

Just how does julianos affect magic, exactly? Does he live on the aetherium-something?

I always wondered how reincarnation works in TES. If the souls go to a daedric realm for example they should stay there forever, that's what everyone says, but apparently after a while they get recycled into a new mortal. So what determines when a soul is getting reincarnated? And wouldn't that mean there is a finite amount of souls in existance?

Men aren't shards of Lorkhan they were created by Kyne while Mer are the descendants of the descendants of the descendants of lesser gods.

When you die you go to Oblivion to Dream of whatever afterlive you believed in while your memories are slowly scrubbed away.
Once you are scrubbed squeaky clean and fresh your soul gets reintroduced into the world, unless your dreaming soul accidently wakes up which isn't good.

Mortal's souls go to the Dreamsleeve, where they're eventually reincarnated. I don't know if it's just a queue or something more magical. But yes, it would imply a finite (but probably huge) number of souls.
Also, as I understand it, daedra can't really die. At most, they'd just sort of "congeal" again in Oblivion.

Oh that can happen? HAS that happened?

That only happened with Dagoth Ur. Although it was inverted: when he was dreaming, he was in the world, and when he was awake, he was in the Dreamsleeve. Which makes no fucking sense, but I guess it had something to do with dying in close proximity to the Heart of Lorkhan.

Yes, see
Also, the Dreamsleeve is where you go when you die, but it's also where you go when you're asleep.

Yes, Dagoth UR was awake. But it is the dreamsleeve that is where souls go, not oblivion

Holy fuck what
What are the implications of that?
Also if possible please don't spoiler Morrowind for me, I just started

You best get the hell outta this thread then mate, cause spoiler city is where this thread is headed

I know I just choose that as ab example. If you worship Hircine for example it's said that you go to the eternal hunting grounds or something, that's what i meant

Oh. Well, there's really no way to tell you what the implications are without spoiling Morrowind. In fact, I think I might have already spoiled some of it. So I'm going to stop now and save you from any further spoilers.

Technically every Zombie is a Soul that was forcibly woken up and gets put back to sleep when banished.

The Sleepers in Morrowind on the other hand are Souls that are in our World while still Dreaming, and Dagoth Ur is dreaming of being awake in our World.

LORE

So really there's no difference between sleep and death in the Elder Scrolls games, which I guess explains why Alduin was able to just "wake up" and where the Nerevarine came from.

I guess my only question then is if Talos ascended instead of dying and became Tiber Septim, where did all the fucking Dragonborn come from? Or is that explained later on in the game that I haven't finished yet?

I read something horrifying about zombies along those lines yeah

Anyway I'm gonna gtfo out of this thread and play some Morrowind now

Actually there have been three different persons who all mantled Talos at some point and Tiper Septim was only one of them.

Alduin was never dead, he was just sent forward in time to Skyrim's era. Dragon souls are immortal, anyway. They can't die. If the Nerevarine is Nerevar reborn, and that's a big if, then he's just a soul that's gone through the normal cycle of death>afterlife>soul cleansing>rebirth.

aha, I see.

All this talk of gods and the pantheon are really making me itch to play through the series again (except Arena because fuck that grind) and learn more of the lore.

Fair enough.

Right. In a metaphysical sense, at least. Your soul is still tied to your body when you're asleep, but it's in the Dreamsleeve nonetheless.

He never died in the first place. He was just sent hurtling forward in time, and he happened to emerge in 4E 201.

I don't understand.

First: The deity of Talos is actually three people: Hjalti, Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus. Together they "became" Talos. But before that (or maybe simultaneously, time is weird occasionally) they were also individuals, and they had lives and children. Second: The line of dragonborn is older than Tiber Septim, dating back to Saint Alessia.

...

Assuming the Hist came from the previous Kalpa, the single most important thing that thing saw was the destruction of literally everything (it jumped to a created kalpa, probably didn't saw it being made). It makes sense that it reveres such action since it doesn't fear it at all.
I mean, it's a thing that genetically engineers a whole race to survive everything and everyone while also killing everything and everyone that poses a threath. The extermination of life is pretty much a full time job for it.

Wait… I do recall Khajiit had a thing where everyone was just a single person what they believe to be Lorkhan, I think and therefore there's no such thing as theft, it's just borrowing from yourself.
Unless it's an entirely different entity here…

I'd actually like to know how Magic even works to begin with. I know there's an energy called Magicka inside everyone that they can channel in different ways to perform magic. And I know that Illusion is about tricking people's minds while Alteration is tricking the world instead.
But where does that energy come from, how does it change the world?
Does everyone had the ability to use magic if they get proper training?

You might be thinking of the Argonians, who have a policy of forgiveness because they believe they're all "children of the root" and have a sort of divine connection.

From what I've heard about the Daedra, they don't die ever. They get banished and their soul returns to something similar to a river in Oblivion where they stay for a long while regaining form. Then they "reincarnate" and roam the world again.
This is mostly why Golden Saints and Dark Seducers don't fear death (it doesn't happen to them at all) and how Daedric equipment exists (it's a Daedra soul shaped as equipment).

Magic comes from the realm beyond Oblivion, called Aetherius. Specifically, it flows out from the sun, which is a giant hole in the edge of Oblivion that Magnus made when he fled from Mundus's creation. The stars are the much smaller holes created by his followers, who followed suit.

It pours into the world through the hole in the wall of reality. These holes coincidentally look like a Sun and Stars, but the light people see from the sun is actually the blazing light shinging through from the other side.

I don't know much about the Khajiit's beliefs.

Yeah, I think that's right. The Aedra were mad at Lorkhan because Mundus took away their immortality, after all.

Mundus is the hub of the wheel. Aetherius is the spokes of the wheel. Oblivion is the empty spaces between the spokes. I think.

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...

The Towers are the Spokes of the Wheel until you look at the Wheel from the right angle and realize the Wheel is actually just another Tower which is what drove Dagoth Ur insane.

Dagoth Ur can't see the Wheel from that angle, though. Because he's awake in the Dreamsleeve (which goes through the hub), he is surrounded by the world, and so he sees it all as a part of himself. It's the opposite of CHIM.

Who would everyone say is the strongest protagonist? I assume the nerevarine is considering he can stop gods and daedric princes with little issue.

In the Dreamsleeve, yes. The hub of the Wheel is simultaniously all of creation however, allowing you to look at creation from the outside while staying on the inside.
It's complicated please understandu.

>The secret Tower within the Tower is the shape of the only name of God, >|<

There's a good reason why that shit drives people insane, don't try to make sense of it.

The protagonist from Arena is a strong candidate since he's locked in a cell and left to die but manages to travel throughout all of Tamriel surviving on the scraps he can get for doing favors and manage to bring down one of the most powerful sorcerors in the world. Unlike many of the other protagonists, who were reincarnated or granted a new life by the gods, this guy was rotting for a while before his quest started.

The Nerevarine is still a strong candidate because he may have been in jail for a long time, but he seems confused as to where he is, so it seems to be implied that he just woke up in the boat. On the other hand, since the Emperor has had a direct hand in your release, it's possible that he's a long-time prisoner, and unlike the Arena protagonist he did, as you say, take down a god.

But then we have the Oblivion protagonist, who wakes up in jail, again starting from scratch but not having had a lot of time to really rot away, fights off the Oblivion hordes. From there it's a debate of whether it's more impressive to take out one or two gods or the whole advance of the Daedra into Cyrodiil.

The Daggerfall character, though I love him, is probably the weakest candidate, since he had an established career and training before beginning his adventure, but I haven't finished it so I'm not aware of how much he actually accomplishes.

Then there's the Dragonborn, who I think is the weakest of the protagonists because he basically gets handed godlike powers either through the will of the gods or just through heritage.

Overall, I think my vote goes for the Oblivion character.

Is there any mods that i should use to play morrowind?

Considering how the Oblivion character not only stops Dagon from destroying the world but also kills Jyggalag and takes the place of Shoegorath becoming a Daedra Lord himself, I'd say he's the biggest contender.

The Skyrim character is just a gun wielded by Akatosh to kill DragonsWyverns. As soon as his job is done, all that power goes back to Akatosh. He's literally someone else's bitch.

To be fair the Dragonborn is halfway to mantling Talos though.Of all protagonist he has the best shot of literally becoming godlike.

The Nerevarine could unravel the whole of creation if he held on to the Tools of Kagrenac though on the other hand.

Ah crap i forgot that the Oblivion-protagonist actually becomes a God in the DLC, my bad.

How did Dagoth Ur end up being able to see it like that though? He was influenced by the heart of Lorkhan, but what else allowed him to dream mundus?

I would say the the daggerfall protagonist is stronger than Arena. I don't want to spoil to much to you, but he does some equally cool shit in terms of bashing wizards depending on what you do.

We do have to remember though that the nerevarine did defeat multiple gods empowered by said tools and also did defeat a daedric prince. He also defeated people who had chim and someone with anti-chim all the while being some reincarnation, even that is a bit iffy if people are just manipulating you into thinking you are, of a hero rather than some god.

I think that the Dwarves just planeswalked the fuck out of Nirn

Get MSE and Morrowind Watercolored

I think it was just because he died close to the Heart.

ESO: What went wrong?
What went right?

Pay in mind this is Kirkbride-lore so this is all fucking crazy, and not entirely logical, but Dagoth Ur kind of accidently got into the position of dying while dreaming of being alive through the circumstances of his assasination, and he also achieved Chim or anti-chim which makes you godlike anyway. He was the most powerful thing in existence and had the potential to undo reality and replace it with his Dream where he would be Doubleplus-Godlike.

I think they just Zerosummed out. Once you gain a fundamental and metaphysical understanding of creation you either gain CHIM and with that partly control of Creation or you realize that by all rights you actually don't really exist - at which point you simply stop existing. There's a reason why so many powerfull magicians in Tamriels History suddenly disapear.

Simple. Everyone wanted TES: Co-Op edition. Instead we got TES:MMO edition.

MSE = Morrowind Script Extender?

I thought an user here showed that the dwemer became the numidium's golden skin

ye

They did.

That's not all.
Don't forget >LOL transcription error, nevermind that

They both zero summed and became part of the dwemer. In a sense they don't exist in the world yet they do. The numidiums powers is to deny things and was made to be the true haven/god of the dwemers.

Tiber Septim, Hjalti Earlybeard, and the Underking, right?

Who is the Blind God though?

Except that the hero of Kvatch doesn't actually stop Dagon himself, rather he allows Martin to do so. As for "killing" Jyggalag, he defeated his corporeal form and broke the cycle of the Grey March, but you can't kill a Daedric prince, just the same way you can't destroy their sphere of influence. Order still exists, even if Jyggalag hasn't been sighted. He does mantle Sheogorath though, but at that point I wouldn't call him the CoC anymore.

Considering the Last Dragonborn is recognised as Hjalti by the ghost of Old Hroldan, and is inherently Lorkhanic by virtue of defeating Alduin's conqueror form and delaying the rebirth of the kalpa, I wouldn't call him just Akatosh's bitch.

Want to know you don't see Shor in Sovngarde in Skyrim? Its because he's you, and you're him. The LDB is much stronger than you give him credit for, regardless of the origins of his power.

You know, I wonder sometimes if fantasy geeks have gotten spoiled and we won't accept a game or a book in which the main character doesn't essentially become a god. I know it's a logical progression of the monomyth and everything, but Bilbo Baggins went from his home in Hobbiton to The Lonely Mountain and came back still a hobbit. Even if we disregard the sequels, it was a perfectly fine ending for the character.

Pooh
Nurgle
Me
Mario (not lugi, he bad)
Jesus
Buddha
Chuckle Borris
Talos
Shinji Ikari (he doesn't count tho because he doesn't get in the fucking robot)
Sauron

Actual fantasy fans have no problems with it, it's the normalfags who want to be the centre of the universe in their games. Just be grateful that the story of the LDB and his mantling of Talos is still coherent in terms of the lore, and not just loaded with Macguffins to advance the plot for no reason.

Daily reminder that the only being worth noting is the Godhead and that the Godhead is the Self

You guys are retarded, mace is supposed to protect against rape and it's a girl's best friend!

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Akatosh, Julianos, Talos, Stendarr, Mara, Dibela, Arkay, Zenithar, Kynareth

Lorkhaj, Herma Mora, Jone, Jude, Magrus Azurah, Nirni, Merrhunz, Riddlethar, Sangiin, Mafala, Ius, Baandar, Shegoorath

Y'ffre

Trinimac, Auri-El,

Hoonding, Ruptuga, Saathal

The blacked swordsman, errr Reman

Scram, furfag.

It's like you're a complete casual

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Nordic pantheon, which I didn't mention because Nordic unlike Khajiit pantheon doesn't have gods other pantheons lack and besides I don't remember half of their names.

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He needs to be mentioned only once, faggot.

Bethesda gets to keep churning out bland, boring, buggy messes of games :^)

Alduin can't die because he's not just a Lizard, he's the personification of a metaphysical force.

You can kill a dragon but you can't kill a concept. If that concept requires a physical embodiment, one will show up when it's required.

Hjalti, Wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus. Which of them "is Tiber Septim" is up for debate.

You aren't literally Shor; Shor is dead, and his soul shattered. You're a fragment of him.

Sounds like you don't even worship Kyne, southerner.

Kynareth.

That's niggerspeak.

Remenber though that Daedric Princes are the embodiment of a concept. "Killing them" does not mean "blood stops flowing to their brain".

Dagon for instance, is the concept of Destruction and Chaos. And while the Hero of Kvatch did not sever his head or do anything similar, his role stopped the Destruction of the World at Dagon's hands. For all intents and purposes, Dagon was "killed" by the Hero of Kvatch.

Similarly, of course Jyggalag can't just be killed. That doesn't even begin to make sense for Daedric Princes. But he represents the concept of Order. And the order is that every few years, the Grey March comes, fucks everything up and Sheogorath returns shortly after to pick the pieces.
By breaking the cycle, breaking the natural Order of things, the Hero of Kvatch did not just "kill" Jyggalag as a concept, he prolonged Madness in that realm for longer which is what actually allows him to mantle Sheogorath.

Or confused, considering they are both Dragonborn. Perhaps there's something in a Dragonborn soul that the ghosts can see and recognize or he is just another person mantling Talos or Akatosh.

This is quite possibly the most amazing thing the LDB did. It's on the same level as destroying Jyggalag since it basically kills the concept that Alduin embodies.
However if he is doing so at the behalf of Akatosh, and let's remenber that the whole purpose of Dragonborns is to kill dragons in his behalf, he is indeed just Akatosh's bitch. A phenomenaly overpowered bitch, but a bitch none the less.

Some would argue that a story about a guy that doesn't do much while an epic conflict happens around him isn't very interesting, which is actually true. There's a much more interesting story happening right behind this character, why aren't we following that?

However serious fantasy fans don't actually enjoy a Naruto-tier story. It's never about how strong and powerfull a character becomes, it's about the adversities and chalenges he faces in relation to them. This is why Guts is an interesting character when he fights vast hordes of demons, because they are an apropriate chalenge for him (eh) and the whole world works against him, while Bilbo instead can face a great chalenge just riding barrels and that's interesting despite "just being barrels" because it's a Hobbit in the middle of Mirkwood, floating on water and leading 13 dwarfs to great treasure.

For comparison, Eragon had a neat side story in the later books about Eragon's half-brother who was very much just a regular human that worked in a smithery and wielded his hammer in combat. He never used magic and was never an OP motherfucker and the few moments where both crossed paths, it was pretty clear just how powerfull Eragon was compared to him. However his story had it's own obstacles that he had to overcome including leading the people of his village to safety and in fights, something Eragon never had to do.
I wouldn't say it was a more enjoyable story (I still like the nuclear island Eragon found and the things he discovered about the world) but it was a very entertaining and interesting story none the less about some schmuck that hammered people in the head to protect his loved ones.

Kynareth is watered-down Imperial shit, user. Kyne is the true god of man.

Just imperial speak.

Nope. It's the same god, different worship.

False. "Kynareth" isn't Shor's widow. Go back to Cyrodiil.

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It was that both Hjalti and the Last Dragonborn are Shezzarines.

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Do you also think that Akatosh and Auriel are the same?

Been separated by the 1E dragonbreak.

There's literally nothing wrong with liking a great culture.
Pic related, it's me.
My name is Ulundil Red-Shoal.

I’m a 270 year old Altmerian Stormcloak (Nord fan for you Imperials). I spend my days perfecting my Smithing and drinking superior Nordic mead. (Thirsk, Black-Briar, Honningbrew)

I train with my Nordic Axe every day, this superior weapon can cut clean through Glass because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my Axe license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak Nordic fluently, both Atmorian and the Modern dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Nordic history and their Nordic code, which I follow 100%

When I get my Nordic visa, I am moving to Windhelm to attend a prestigious Stormcloak Academy to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an General for the Stormcloaks!

I own Bear hides, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Skyrim, so I can fit in easier. I Dragon shout at my elders and seniors and speak Nordic as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.

Wish me luck in Skyrim!

heh/10

Talos - man god
Akatosh - dragon god
Diabella - lady god
Zenithar - forge god?
Kynareth - mage god?
Stendar - law god?

Those are the only ones I can recall, without reading anything ITT

Semantics. I'd argue that defeated is still the more appropriate and relevant term. Save killed for mortals.

No, it doesnt. Do you know why Alduin was able to be defeated in the first place? He was trying to conquer Nirn, not reset the kalpa. He was acting outside of his sphere, and for that he was not as strong as he otherwise would've been. Had he actually done his job, the LDB would've been powerless to do anything other than delay it. Remember how the ancient tongues dealt with Alduin at the snow-throat? Remember what the whole point of the dragon war was?

You can't end beings like Jyggalag or Alduin when they are acting within their sphere - it's simply not possible.

I am indeed aware of the Shezarrines, but yes, you are technically correct.

Aren't Zurin and Wulfharth both the Underking?

I really don't understand anything about the Underking. None of it makes any sense to me.

Nehrim > Skyrim & Oblivion

That's no excuse m8

Alright I think I understand completely now. Here I go…
So the the entire universe is just a dream in a god's head. Zero-sum is when you realize you are real, but that you are also a dream. The two concepts being opposites are like adding a positive and negative together, which results in a zero and you cease to exist. Hence the name of the concept, the result is you wake up and disappear from the dream. CHIM is instead of zero-sum you take control of the dreaming reality basically mantling the dreaming god and becoming the dreamer like what Vivec did. But Dagoth Ur achieved something totally different, indeed the exact opposite. When he died he became awake in the dreamsleeve, and for all intents and purposes became the dream/universe, which is why he sees all of creation as being part of himself. When you achieve CHIM you become the dreamer, but when you achieve the inversion you become the dream. Right?

Almost. The part of the godhead that is dreaming about you specifically wakes up.

No. It's impossible to mantle the godhead. CHIM is like lucid dreaming: you know you're in a dream, and that gives you more control. You can only attain CHIM by learning that reality is a dream, but still asserting your individuality, existence, and independence. Otherwise you'll just zero-sum.

I don't know if that's the case or not. I think Dagoth Ur's situation is so strange, that it can't be properly explained. Nothing like it has happened before or since.

I think the reason for this is because, while he's dreaming (and thus in Mundus), he's also lucid. That's what makes it the opposite of CHIM. I think.

No. You just become "aware" of the dream.

...

Addendum to the bit about mantling: Mantling is when you act so alike to another entity in the world that the godhead (the dreamer) can no longer tell the difference, and so you effectively become the thing you're imitating. "Walk like them until they walk like you." That's why you can't mantle the godhead: it's the only "real" thing there is.

So you can't mantle the god, but you still become the dreamer then right?

...

The one thing i've always wondered is if Godhead is the only real thing, and he is asleep, than what reality does he exist in? Is he just a stand in for the devs?

But wait if someone achieving CHIM becomes a lucid dreamer and can control some of the dream, so why didn't vivec go and just take the tools back? Couldn't he have just taken them back with no effort? Wouldn't even Dagoth Ur be nothing to him?

I heard that if those who achieve CHIM misuse their powers, they risk waking Godhead up, and therefor destroying their reality, so that's probably why he doesn't do that.

Then if Vivec achieved CHIM we have a serious problem. He is the guy who killed his best friend for power, cucked him to

Imagine that you're a tiny part of the godhead's dreaming brain. Normally, when you learn that you're in a dream, you (that part) wakes up. CHIM is when that part is dreaming but lucid. I hope that makes sense.

Basically, yeah. I think it's a smart way to set up a world. It's a nice conceit that's appropriate to the new medium Numidium of vidya.

I don't know. CHIM doesn't make you omnipotent–maybe Dagoth Ur was already too powerful by the time Vivec considered it.

It could even be that Dagoth Ur if he was indeed the dream/universe he learned a way to shield himself from him. Block those lucid dreamers from entering certain places

Talos, Arkay, Akatosh, Dibella, Mara, Kynareth, Stendarr

That's all I remember…

addendum: Another thought, it could also be that Vivec was aware of Dagoth Ur and his ash vampires using the power of zero-sum against him. Who knows they could of tricked him into basically erasing his own existence

Here's a fun (but largely unsubstantiated) theory:
The godhead is the developers.
CHIM is the dev console.
The tower are CPUs.
The Elder Scrolls are RAM (hence why they vary in number and content).
Lorkhan/Shor/Shezzar is the player. Not the player character, but you, the player.

I think it's probably not true, but it's neat nonetheless.

I don't think you can zero-sum after you've achieved CHIM.

I think we've gone too deep, but lets keep going

Yeah, Vivec is a blatant self-insert/Mary Sue by Kirkbride. But I like it anyway.

Well now I'm confused as fuck.

Go home, GaymeTheory.

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TEMPUS WILL SAVE YOU
TEMPUS WILL JUDGE YOU
TEMPUS TALKS TO ME
TEMPUS IS OUR FRIEND AND SAVIOR

(that dude in Whiterun)

Just keep swilling your tree piss scale face.

I was going to say that this was some serious GameTheory bullshit but someone beat me to it