Your top 3 RTT/RTS games?

Dominic Nelson
Dominic Nelson

Looking for suggestions/recommendations, primarily focusing on the single player campaign. What are the best you've played in terms of scenario variety, gameplay and story?

For me, Warcraft 3 ROC & TFT is just an absolutely phenomenally put together SP experience. I also loved Myth 2 - Soulblighter. Finally, Homeworld - Cataclysm did a damn good job of delivering a spooky lovechild of Event Horizon and The Thing.

Leo Morales
Leo Morales

Try World in Conflict and Conquest: Frontier Wars,

Isaac Anderson
Isaac Anderson

Supreme Commander Forged Alliance

Austin Rogers
Austin Rogers

I played Warcraft 3 and enjoyed but, but for what specific reasons do people hold it in such a high regard?

Brandon Davis
Brandon Davis

Total Annihilation is my #1 because it's just a blast.

Angel Hill
Angel Hill

Moddability

Angel Parker
Angel Parker

multiplayer and custom maps

Jaxon Rodriguez
Jaxon Rodriguez

Lengthy, varied campaigns
At least 4 completely unique, balanced races
Immense hero and gameplay style variety
RPG lite mechanics with massive number of items/skills and spells

Christopher Garcia
Christopher Garcia

Company of Heroes + expansions is up there. Haven't played the campaign in years but I remember it being pretty good. Dawn of War 1 has a pretty fun campaign but mission variety is pretty low. World in Conflict has a pretty solid campaign.

Your best bet really is going into the RTS thread where someone will post a flow chart/ranking of RTS games and
just play the ones that appeal to you.

Isaac Brooks
Isaac Brooks

Here is graph.

Sage for doublepost.

Kayden Jenkins
Kayden Jenkins

Rise of Nations
Total Annihilation
Populous: The Beginning

Aiden Flores
Aiden Flores

I love TA but the campaigns are incredibly samey. Pretty much 1v1 skirmish maps for about 20 missions.

Sebastian Diaz
Sebastian Diaz

What is the difference between AoE 2 and Rise of Nations, I was looking to get it but I don't want the same game.

Brandon King
Brandon King

How do you play most RTS in a way that it feels more like a actual strategy game instead of a Nuke/best tech rush, that is what has made me drop almost every rts out there, except for sins of a solar empire

Lucas Wright
Lucas Wright

Quite different games and styles of gameplay, although both have a large number of races which are basically a core race with various buffs/nerfs and unique units/techs. I would say it's unique enough not to feel 'the same' although if you have experience with AoE 2 then you should get the game quite quickly.

AoE 2 is a very traditional RTS with discrete units, technologies (in a branching tree) and buildings you can produce/research over 4 ages (ancient to pre-renaissance). 4 types of resources are harvested in a discrete way also.

Rise of nations has a strategic layer, like a world map similar to the Total war games, and then a tactical layer, which plays out more like a standard RTS. 6 types of resources are generated continuously (like total annihilation) and there are 4 research paths spanning 8 ages, which go from ancient to modern.

Sins is like the weakest RTS out there. Three 'sides' that are essentially identical bar minor changes (despite being sold as Starcraft different) Techs mostly provide shallow % improvements rather than anything valuable. Once you have a few planets you have enough research stations to access the full tech tree…and basically just slowly colonise the surrounding planets without actually adding anything to the gameplay. There is zero depth. The most damning thing is the irreversible tax penalty you pay when boosting logistics.

Basically an RTS / 4x hybrid that does neither very well. I like the capital ships being able to gain experience, but that's about it.

Michael Brown
Michael Brown

well that is the reason SoSE isn't a rush simulator

James Green
James Green

I could crawl backwards on my hands and knees down a 3 inch deep canal.

Something being painfully slow doesn't mean it's automatically not shallow as fuck.

I wish to god the game had more, but the tactics at 20 minutes in are essentially the same as those at 2 hours in.

Nicholas Lopez
Nicholas Lopez

Yes, milord?

Jordan Mitchell
Jordan Mitchell

You know, nobody ever mentions Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends anywhere, I played it a few years ago and was very impressed by it. It has excellent presentation, great music, great assets, it has some of the lite rpg stuff in W3, the story is lame but the races are pretty awesome, you got a steampunk italian inspired race, an arabian/wizardry inspired race and the Coutl, which are mesoamerican/ancient aliens inspired, my favorites. Definitely worth playing.

Liam Wood
Liam Wood

compare it to other RTS game and see the differences

Lets take C&C Generals for example

C&C Generals is very straight forward in multiplayer, you can pick 3 nations and each nation has 3 "generals", basicly generals just give you small bonuses like unique unit or bonus to tech like nuclear weapon/tanks etc

other from that there isnt anything else, WC3 has 3 tiers for main building and 3 tiers for weapon/armor upgrades + supporting spell casters + siege weapons/units + shitton of other shit

Hero units are almost perfect and provide great impact depending on personal choices of ability choice during leveling or items

It launched 2002 and its still the best RTS on the market and people are still making custom melee/campaign/scenario maps to this day, that should tell you enough about it.

Landon James
Landon James

- Disgaea
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- Fire Emblem Fates
- Valkyria Chronicles
- Halo Wars

Matthew Kelly
Matthew Kelly

Warcraft 2, both editions
Battle Realms
Command and Conquer: Red Alert

Jordan Smith
Jordan Smith

PvP is where actual strategy shines. Figuring out what build your oppenent is going for, countering while also pushing your own plan, managing tech vs on field units. Play online and you need strategy to win.

Austin Lee
Austin Lee

Europa Universalis IV, Crusader Kings 2, Victoria 2.
I was never that good at other types of RTS, but am really good at grand strategy multiplayer so I like that.

Matthew Miller
Matthew Miller

The fact that there are something like 25 unique heroes and 100+ unique items, up to 6 of which can be held by a hero for passive/active bonuses, is just awesome.

Gavin Nguyen
Gavin Nguyen

Too many to pick just three, fuck.

1. Warcraft 3, Broodwar
2. Total Annihilation:Kingdoms
3. Dune2k

Even then stuff like Homeworld, Age of Empires, CnC, Red Alert, Dawn of War and plenty of stuff I'm forgetting trying to pick just three feels like I'm doing a disservice.

Brandon Taylor
Brandon Taylor

Great taste

Christian Hall
Christian Hall

2. Total Annihilation:Kingdoms
Seriously? I have heard nothing but negatives about this. Can you elaborate? (Haven't played it, but you seem to have half decent taste!)

Tyler Ortiz
Tyler Ortiz

How is C&C 3?

I've played Tiberium Sun, Red Alert 1 and 2, and some of Generals, along with a ton of other RTS games, but never got around to playing C&C 3.

Angel Gray
Angel Gray

Its alright, not as good as past ones, but still pretty enjoyable

Jonathan Flores
Jonathan Flores

Kanes Wrath is top tier though

Mason Brooks
Mason Brooks

God I miss WC3. It's honestly one of maybe three or four games that I would pay full retail for a remaster of without any hesitation.

Charles Torres
Charles Torres

Honestly I think Cataclysm rivals the original plot-wise.

IMO Generals story wasn't super great. It was mostly political wankery. The gameplay was okay though.

Anthony Wright
Anthony Wright

Top tier taste. Another thing that was awesome was time dilation. You could move from 1/4 speed to 8x speed or so. Really made the campaign move at your pace.

Funny how that charlatan Randy Pitchfork is unable to remaster this…

Carter Morgan
Carter Morgan

Hero units are almost perfect
They might somewhat fit into WC3. But boh oh boy what cancer they caused onto all of RTS.

And perfect? Far from it. They became the center of the game.

Isaiah Gutierrez
Isaiah Gutierrez

There should have been an option to not use them and instead maybe get something like bonuses to normal units.

Elijah Campbell
Elijah Campbell

Fantastic taste. I'd personally replace Empire Earth with Supreme Commander: Total Annhilation, is only because I've never really played Empire Earth.

Grayson Cook
Grayson Cook

Cataclysm
Niggest of nigs
Story
Yeah, it was nothing more but a satire/parody of news and propaganda.
It was enjoyable but nothing compared to the charm of the usual FMV cutscenes.

Jace Baker
Jace Baker

Kingdoms isn't a technically great game or maybe even a good, but it is an incredibly "comfy" game. It's almost like Myth if it had limited base building and really shitty pathfinding. It's not a spammy rush fest; there are a limited amount of single-resource gather points on every map & no gatherers so eco management isn't a huge distraction; the soundtrack is good, although Soule says he hated writing it because he was restricted in what instruments he used and there aren't dynamic scores like TA had.

A lot of the original negatives the game got were due to it running like molasses on current gen PCs (circa 2000) and there being almost no pathfinding (fixed now via community mods). Those issues are now fixed. I think it's the sort of game that some people just really love for the aesthetic and "feel," playing it realizing it has flaws.

Owen Brown
Owen Brown

what cancer they caused onto all of RTS.
What the fuck are you talking about?

They became the center of the game.
Yeah, no shit. That was by design and an excellent choice. Loads of RTS games had hero units in the campaign missions, but generally it was a case of 'they are quite good but you insta-lose if they die, so you can't use them to their full extent since you are trying to defend them all the time'.

In WC3 you had way more incentive to actually get stuck in, particularly with the experience/level gains from combat and items acquired from killing creeps.

Heroes add another layer of depth onto the game. A possible fix for your problem would be to have an option to double the unit cap and disable heroes.

Jackson Scott
Jackson Scott

Time dilation was 100% necessary to clean out a map in reasonable time. Worked well during the slow parts of missions as well. The emergency hyperspace was great too; it really put you under pressure in several missions.

Funny how that charlatan Randy Pitchfork is unable to remaster this…
I heard that it was because Relic/THQ didn't actually own it; it was developed by Barking Dog Studios and Sierra holds the IP. Would be amazing if it did get a remake if only so I can play it in HD and actually be able to hear the music clearly.

Austin Jackson
Austin Jackson

1: age of empires 2, with expansions
2: warcraft 2+3, great storytelling for an rts
3: metal fatigue - GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS WITH CHANGEABLE PARTS

Kevin Hall
Kevin Hall

I really liked playing through c&c generals and expansion's campaign. It's like I'm moving little toy cars and planes around.

Ethan Rogers
Ethan Rogers

What the fuck are you talking about?
Did you miss the tons of titles trying to shove in more and more RPG elements and powerful heroes into RTS, just to fail or be mediocre ?
The rise of ASSFAGGOTS ?
It did good by having great modding, but as influence to other games ? Not good at all.

Heroes add another layer of depth onto the game.
Depends on what you call depth and what you want in an RTS.

In multiplayer the default strategy being a blademaster attacking the workers gathering wood or a demon hunter/death knight doing that same thing is very far from my ideal of how I want to play an RTS game.
And all of that being possible because by design you can get heroes early and cheap but all of your other units have low damage at start.
We can pretend multiplayer is not how everyone should enjoy the game and we can just use singleplayer and mods. But that is still closing our eyes to what default strategies for skirmish mode are.

Not my ideal design. Not at all.

Logan Edwards
Logan Edwards

Hero units draw away from the army management and base building elements of the games to focus on singular special units, and not in the 'This is something big I built' way.

Just look at the horrible difference between the campaigns of Wings of Liberties and Heart of the Swarm.

WoL
Get research in missions, which you can then spend out of missions on a series of 10 different choices to specialize your playstyle
Spare research goes into dosh and you also get dosh each mission
Dosh can be spent on an extra two upgrades per units that let you further customize your army
Dosh can also be spent on mercenaries who you can then buy in missions
Also one mission where you get to choose between two different units

HotS
Some units get a choice between 3 upgrades free of charge that can be changed at any time
Some units have extra mini missions where you choose between two evolutions
Everything else is hero upgrades for Kerrigan

Hey is Legacy of the Void's campaign any good? I'm still undecided if I want to get it.

Logan Martinez
Logan Martinez

shove in more and more RPG elements and powerful heroes into RTS
Games like Kohan had xp / levelling with heroes before Warcraft.
The rise of ASSFAGGOTS ?
Right, since Starcraft never had this…Seriously the only thing Warcraft 3 allowed to happen was ability to have an inventory

In multiplayer the default strategy being a blademaster attacking the workers gathering wood or a demon hunter/death knight doing that same thing is very far from my ideal of how I want to play an RTS game.
RTS games have early harassment. That's true with non-Hero RTS games.

Not my ideal design. Not at all.
You don't like fast paced RTS games then. Heroes are a strawman.

Parker Jackson
Parker Jackson

the most active multiplayer for such an old RTS, there are custom community-made servers with anti-cheat measures
Blizzard classic games department is currently working on the update, some months ago they released a comaptibility hotfix and are currently working on more extensive update that should touch up all aspects of gameplay even though new ingame content is unlikely
massive custom map scene creating total conversions and new gamemodes, some of which (for better or worse) became their own genres
graphics look okay even now, the more stylized bright graphics aged pretty well
Campaigns feature custom units, scenarios and other aspects, but whereas Starcraft 2 gets it more formulaic with pretty obvious pickup placements, WC3 has more interesting secrets and challenges unrelated to the main objective, baseless missions are fun dungeon crawls
Unlike SC2 you can play MP with pirated copies
Custom maps? They are VERY diverse - singleplayer maps, singlepalyer campaigns, competitive multiplayer, co-op multiplayer, altered melee with standard gameplay but different races, dungeon crawls, RPGs, GTA-esque urban living simulators where you rob banks and spend cash on hookers, puzzles, adventures, entire new settings, recreations of other games, competitive action arenas where you use combined spells to push enemies out, survival games, actually fun ASSFAGGOTS like Naval Battle, minigame collections, 4X grand strategies, other goodies

Defense of the Ancients was inspired by Aeon of Strife for Starcraft 1 that was inspired by Herzog Zwei and Future Cop LPD. Even if it wasn't for Warcraft 3 ASSFAGGOTS would have happened anyways.

Also, I'd say the use of heroes as they are in Warcraft 3 is pretty justified, with the current approach to RTS that lasted since the beginning the early game is usually pretty dull due to the need to build up the economy and military is extremely limited, so heroes add some depth and even if that means active sabotage of enemy economy becomes a viable tactic. I wish we would move away from this whole early game concept anyways, like you start off with a base based on your preference or something, but whatever.

If you played all three LotV might feel quite formulaic by now, atleast some missions, but the new units Protoss get, and General-esque global abilities, are super awesome. Also writing is way better than HotS because HotS was the low point in SC writing, unless you really hate the premise of protoss getting rid of this "mysterious dogmatic aliens" by abandoning their dogmas, but considering the fact SC2 campaigns are so much more, er, intimate than SC1, so it's kinda hard to keep them mysterious afterwards. Anyways they get rid of caste system because Rory Swann Karax managed to lead the forces during one of missions well and because nobody but them sues this or something, they abandoned their fear of advanced robotics because they had to resort to usage of Purifiers and they learned they rebelled because they were treated as machines not equals so offer them equality and the robotic imitation of Fenix proves they are willing to treat machine protoss fairly, they destroy Shakuras to stall the Amon's forces, they abandon Khala because they learned it can compromise their entire race and something something.
Anyways go ahead buy it, it's pretty fine and enjoyable.

Juan Perez
Juan Perez

leveling
It has been around for a long while. But WC3 definitely pushed it further and further into importance to the game.
Right, since Starcraft never had this…
Starcraft had a lot of modes. It wasn't dominated by hero ones.

RTS games have early harassment
Even in fast paced RTS games you don't have something that goes into your base, kills builders and then fucks off.
RA2 for example has extremely early harrasment, but it never involves running away alive. Units that do it either kill the enemy or die.

Isaiah Reyes
Isaiah Reyes

We can bring up SC1 AoS a lot, but true popularity for ASSFAGGOTS came with WC3.

Ian White
Ian White

Did Starcraft AoE even have levels or item management?
Hell, from what I remember, Eul's Dota originally had more RTS elements than Dota Allstars.

Landon Bennett
Landon Bennett

I said it wouldn't have not happened without Warcraft 3. Earlier or later this would become a genre, and would definitely introduce the exact same results.

Julian Edwards
Julian Edwards

Red Alert 2, Men of War (particularly in coop) and Supcom/TA with fan patch.

Elijah Hill
Elijah Hill

Definitely not in the same way. We might have gotten completely different RPG mechanics.

And what is the point of thinking of theoretical scenarios for ASSFAGGOTS developing ?
We live in this scenario and this is our reality.

Caleb Edwards
Caleb Edwards

We could have ended up with ASSFAGGOTS inspired by Dawn of War 2, with random loot drops, customizing out of battle and controlling a small team with unique varying abilities based off their equipment. Do I play an assault with a jet pack to hit their heavy weapons and melta grenades, or do I run terminator armour and tank through?

Inb4 someone says Demigod wasn't influenced by War3

Carter Powell
Carter Powell

PROSTAGMA

Julian Jenkins
Julian Jenkins

Okay anons Imma gonna buy Men of War with spare cash I have from cards, which game do you recommend? I have little interest in multiplayer, which has the most interesting campaign? I heard Vietnam has the smallest scale, but do you get to enjoy all the modern equipment goodness like helicopters? What about original, Red Tide and Condemned Heroes, I heard all games are hard as hell so which one of these is more fair, offers more interesting scenarios and less bugs?

I just don't find hating Warcraft 3 for something it's mods have spawned and devs have never intended reasonable. It's like hating on Quake for spawning Team Fortress and this whole Battleborn/Paladins/Overwatch/Lawbreakers character-based FPS boom.

Ryder Rodriguez
Ryder Rodriguez

That doesn't sound all that bad.
Nobody said we have to agree on what to dislike.
I loved it back in the day, but looking on it now, the long term effect isn't good and blizz dropped any meaningful support for the game after some time.
It could have been very alive even now, had they not done that.

Nolan Gonzalez
Nolan Gonzalez

RTT
Pretty rare genre. The last one I played was Full Spectrum Warrior, and that was…what, over a decade ago, I think.

Dominic Gray
Dominic Gray

Future Cop LPD
Future cop LAPD…holy shit it's been a while since I played that on the PS1 but you're absolutely spot on.

Why single out warcraft then? All it has done is build up on what came before. As said, something else would have come along instead.

Starcraft had a lot of modes. It wasn't dominated by hero ones.
You realise it had Dota right?

Even in fast paced RTS games you don't have something that goes into your base, kills builders and then fucks off.
Level 1 heroes have a hard time killing units. You are not very good at the game if you get them killed. The point is to disrupt economy, not necessarily kill units. These kind of harassments early game exist in loads of other RTS games so you're talking BS.

Parker Gutierrez
Parker Gutierrez

To be honest… despite my love for the genre I can't think of a single RPG that is alive and well to this day. Red Alert 2? Left with terrible balance making everyone cheese cheapest tactics and rushes. World in Conflict? No more multiplayer. Dawn of War had the balance ruined by expansions, DoW2 needs rebalancing mods and Company of Heroes was never balanced. Starcraft is alive but thanks to competitive gooks so it's a ravenous undead zombie hunting for brains to kind of alive.

It seems mods are the only salvation of this genre. CnC Generals has RotR and other goodies, DoW has Armageddon, DoW 2 has that elite balance mod, Warcraft 3 has more custom maps than you could count, and still too many if you filter off all the garbage, Red Alert 2 has Mental Omega which despite offering it's own balance issues is just that awesome, and Starcraft 2 seems to have a map editor too so something decent might just come out, eventually.

Owen Davis
Owen Davis

DoW has Armageddon
Sorry I meant Ultimate Apocalypse, I blame Steel Legion for this!

Ryder Martin
Ryder Martin

Noice noice.

Brayden Hall
Brayden Hall

I totally agree about the early game thing. It's sort of strange when you think about it that no one has tried moving past this.

Also, what would you say to RTS trying to move away from the gook click by utilizing more automation or unit A.I.? I feel that is a massive hamstring right now.

Cameron Jones
Cameron Jones

Tanktics
Fanta Scape
Inochi Mijikashi Tatakae

Dylan Johnson
Dylan Johnson

Close Combat were really good RTT games

Zachary Perez
Zachary Perez

I totally agree about the early game thing. It's sort of strange when you think about it that no one has tried moving past this.
I actually once had an idea of an RTS where you are given some starting territory and you get to deploy tech and production facilities, bases and even alter the portion of terrain - say create indestructible walls that can be climbed but not destroyed, or dig out some canals for ships. There's some time given for all these deployments, after which leftover construction points are converted into regular game points, and while you still get to deploy structures, you cannot modify terrain beyond repairing damage or something. Anyways once regular game starts you can train units and do research and construct structures, like in a regular RTS.

The main problem unique to this design would be, of course, proper balancing - like, you need a few viable tactics to counter players who just wall in with walls and water canals or something. My idea would be making zone control outside of the base essential for progression and permitting a quick nuking option that makes wall cliffs "climbable" and collapsing the water channels or something, while preventing the air units purely walled-in player could use from taking them over. Alternatively, instead of control point the game has automated resource collector units that can only be ships and ground units, not aircraft, with the HQ being the only dropoff for resources, which means you gotta keep your bass accessible, same with construction spots and structures requiring repairs.

As for AI, when it comes to micromanagement minimization such as autocast when possible and units auto-targeting most viable targets, but you still gotta offer some meaningful decisions to players. Also, I'd rather look into the UI because as it is now it could use some improvement, like why can't we access all selected unit abilities and have to scroll trough them with tab, for fuck's sake?!

Jaxon Wood
Jaxon Wood

Can't handle intense early game.
This part of the game has the highest risk/reward, there is nothing more satisfying than pulling of an early game play that cripples the enemy.

Dylan Hughes
Dylan Hughes

Probably would have to be
Dawn of War 1
Men of War
and either Rise of Nations or Command and Conquer Generals.

Jose Bailey
Jose Bailey

I didn't think Halo Wars was THAT bad

Joshua Bennett
Joshua Bennett

rise of legends had a fun campaign, not the best, but i want to throw it out there.
stronghold and warcraft 2 will always hold a place in my heart.

Eli Jackson
Eli Jackson

Bullshit, early game offers the least options, the different rush tactics are situational as competent player can counter them most of the time, so in general it's like a gamble because everything depends on whether enemy is prepared for rush/sabotage or not.

Ayden Hernandez
Ayden Hernandez

What exactly are you calling bullshit to? Nothing in my post counters anything you are saying?

Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher

Right, sorry, nevermind.

Isaiah Young
Isaiah Young

Gaylo Wars is top loli of the yer x~DD

Christian Williams
Christian Williams

There will be lolis in Halo Wars?

Levi Myers
Levi Myers

Earth 2150
Metal Fatigue
CnCRA2
DoW1

Fuck new games, especially for RTS the old games are way better than anything out there today.

Julian Rivera
Julian Rivera

Aeon of Strife
AoS was the original name of the genre which they now call MOBA/ARTS too (and neither of these names are indicative).

Nathaniel Thompson
Nathaniel Thompson

Yes. ASSFAGGOTS is the only name that defines the genre as it is.

Angel Ramirez
Angel Ramirez

Also SS2

Thomas Perry
Thomas Perry

Empire Earth
Age of Empires 1
Starcraft 2

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