Fighting Games and Misconceptions

There's something about fighting games that either scares or pushes away many people. And most of the time it's not even because the games are hard to play themselves. Many fighters lately have a "simple" combo scheme where you can mash buttons and still do flashy combos.

There are just so many misunderstandings in general.

It doesn't help that some of the more popular games to play, like Marvel Vs Capcom 3 or Skull Girls, are horrible for beginners. SG may have a great tutorial for beginners, but the gameplay has you flood the enemy with assists and then getting combod for ages from 1 mistake. This is just frustrating to watch because you have no idea where you even went wrong.

What do you guys think keep people away from fighters (besides just not caring for the genre)? And for you people who shy away from fighters, what pushed you away? I think they're very fun to play with friends on a casual and competent level

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So, long story short, casuals get turned off from fighters because you actually have to put work into it to win consistently?

got it.

I know that but it's not even true in many cases. You can play casually with others every other day for 2 weeks and you'll be better than a good deal of people online. One problem is many people don't learn from their loses or their own mistakes. Sometimes they don't even know where they went wrong. Which is why I think it's very important to have a person show you where you went wrong.

If more people took loses as a learning experience instead of a personal attack, I think many people could get better in games in general.

Niggers

it still comes down to the individual who lost. Most, if not all, fighting games now have a feature that allows you to rewatch your old matches and learn where you went wrong.

You watch through the match, see if there's a specific setup that you keep getting hit by, then go into training and figure out how to beat said setup. Its simple really, but most people I see that get disheartened by their losses in fighting games dont do that and insist that something like that is "too much work for a video game" or something like that. In short, its up to the person suffering the loss to better himself.

The biggest problem is that you have to pay a lot of money to get an arcadestick.
You will be frustrated with a lot of games if you try to use other input methods.

While I don't disagree that a stick is expensive, you don't really have to buy one if you feel more comfortable with a gamepad or whatever. There's a few prominent FGC names that are successful without them such as Smug and Louffy (which in fact won EVO with a PS1 controller), it's just a matter of comfort.

There's also people able to paint with their feet.
They may be able to learn it but not if they stop because they don't have fun.

The reality is your average noob is gonna pick up USF4 and realize he has to do autistic fadc into ultra with his shitty microshit 360 gamepad.

I see someone let reddit in.

Why are you saging?

I don't really think that's a misunderstanding, to be good you'll need to know combos. Also inputs are harder than memorizing the combo's steps

>follows it up with some of the misunderstandings being an actual thing

Fighters are popular with every race. Blacks like SF and Marvel. Whites like Smash, Tekken and MK. Mexs and BRs like KoF. Japs like GG, BB, and SF. And anime fighters very between everyone. You have no reason not to play with a nigger unless you're scared of them.


Why would anyone work hard to beat anyone when you can kick people's ass online for half the effort?


I do just fine with a controller. It's honestly just what you prefer. However, if you are used to going to arcades, it will be easier to gravitate toward a stick. Sure the pros may use them.


Most likely felt his post wasn't worth bumping the thread.

USF4 is honestly one of the very few games where depending on which character you play, you are almost required to own a stick, because of plinking.

>one friend goes straight to yun, and the other complains about inputs the whole time

I've always avoided fighting games because I just suck at them, same with racing games. Is there any good fighting games on steam sale that are good for getting into the genre?

pretty much this

But if you're asking for clarification on the contents of my post; the only people who think you absolutely need an arcade stick to effectively play fighting games are stream monsters who dont actually play fighting games. There is no input method that is better, its all what you're used to.


wut, Im pretty sure Smug plinks on the garbage x360 pad.


I know your pain, friend.

Well of course, smash isn't a fighting game, why would they like a genre they obviously have no interest in

KOF2002UM is 3 bucks.

You do need to learn combos. It's part of learning the game. However some people think you need to be EVO status to win or that they lost because the guy knew a 20 hit combo. They think combos are everything. Which is why the training room guy gets destroyed when he goes online. He didn't lose because the guy knew a huge combo, he fell for the same overhead setup 3x in a row. His fundamentals are bad but he instead practices big combos, just to realize he can't pull them off because he can never hit the other person or get out of setups.

Also for combos you don't even need to know big ones. Just enough to make your punishes worth it. Like a 10 hit combo in most anime fighters or a 4 hit combo in SFV. You can easily learn that by just playing and slowly figuring out or watching someone else play to help you. Another thing is people who just see a bunch of attacks instead of the natural flow of weak attacks, to stronger attacks, to special moves. You can know a few 4 hit combos and then start chaining them into 12 hit combos once you know how to link them together. Again this just comes naturally while learning the game and your character.

you mean mash DP? What about Tatsu? just mash those that's how you win in that horrible game

SF4 has crazy hard inputs, it's no wonder people don't like it. I like KoF98, Melty Blood: Actress Again, and SFIII inputs because they're either easy quarter circles, half circles, or full circles.

whats wrong? got scrubbed out by a DP happy Ken online?

Thankfully I have 2 friends that like fighters but only one of them is somewhat competent. The other is too unfamiliar with them to actually give me a challenge.

I honestly though no one still used the "Well at least I have a life" bullshit excuse.


That would work against casuals definitely. Also what's so bad about SFV (besides it being unfinished since everyone knows that)? I keep hearing people say it's horrible but I don't know why. I play it every blue moon with a friend but I don't think it's anything special.
I hope no one is dying to mid screen tatsus after playing for a few hours.

I think it's more of a timing thing. In Melty, I feel I can just mash easily mash out my whole combo with little thought for timing. Trying the do some of the trials in SF4 made me realize how odd the timing is for many moves.

Justin has been winning tournies by mashing DP. I'm not buying capcom fighters again after SFxT

don't watch an SF5 tourney, you'll see people die to just H. Tatsu>H. Tatsu>H. Tatsu over and over again. I saw a top 8 where Tatsu was over 60% of the guy's moves. And that ryu player's name was Daigo

SFV struggles because the characters are shit. Its pretty balanced only because everyone plays the same way and everyone has stubby as fuck normals. That and the 8 frame delay feels like shit. SFV was supposed to be faster than USF4, but if you actually go back USF4 feels way faster and more responsive. Also jab anti airs and jab/dp on wakeup is dumb as fuck.


SF's combo system revolves mostly around links. That means you have to fully wait for your attack animation to finish before you press the next button. People who are used to gatling combos like many anime games have trouble when they switch because you need to find the rythym in combos.

The fighting game community in general tends to push people away from the scene. Third Strike is probably one of the best 2D fighters out there if not the best SF game so far, yet its community is full of elitist, toxic autistics that push people away from Third Strike. You would get your shit kicked in if you picked the wrong super art let alone picked Hugo/Remy/Twelve/Sean; fuck, they hypocritically gave you shit for picking Chun-Li, Ken, and Yun.

The community is pretty bad in general too.


Tekken suffers from this due to its 20+ character rosters, and I wouldn't say Virtua Fighter and easy to pick up. If you didn't pick up Tekken since the PSX game or Tekken 4, there was a good chance you might be overwhelmed. You had to learn EWGF with the Mishimas to be good with them, and it's not an easy thing to leanr.

Virtua Fighter has an even higher learning curve even when FS lowered the curve. Akira, Aoi, and Vanessa are some of the hardest characters to use, and you were fucked if you can't pull off Akira's infamous knee move/combo (There's an inside joke that you need a Phd in Virtua Fighter to be good with Akira).

Before Wolfkrone learned to play Viper with a controller before becoming a rage quit pussy, you needed a stick if you wanted to play as C. Viper in SF4. Even with a stick, she was tough to master.


You can play Tekken with pad just fine. In fact, it's even recommended to get a good pad for Tekken.


Funny, I remember him always going for dive kick characters because he used to have a boner for dive kicks.

Alex, Guile, and Zangief are shit tier while Nash, Ryu, and Chun-Li are bullshit good tier (Why do you think scrubs like LTG spam pick Nash?).

SFV is nowhere near balanced.

So, because his opponent fell for it, its the game's fault? I bet youre one of those people who blame the guns for mass shootings too.

While I agree SFV is far from finished and I'd actively advise people to not buy it right now, the gameplay is solid. Its everything else besides the actual gameplay thats horrible. The only people bitching about the gameplay are the people who cant adjust to a different game.


I'd second this, I actually prefer a pad for 3d fighters while I use a stick for 2d fighters.

ah yes the varying frame delays based on system that are hard coded, the non-existant combo system. Slow paced gameplay. All solid as heck

He is? I thought he was top 5 from what I remember seeing.

the only valid complaint I see is the frame delay.
It doesnt sound like you've played the game very much
as compaired to what? SF4? What are you smoking nigger.

SF4, any anime fighter, fuck even SF2.
It's the slowest modern fighting game.
Even last blade is faster

what ever it is you're smoking, send me some. And I say this right after going back to play SF4 the past couple of days.

He was close to bottom-tier unless Guile players know how to use him now. For some reason, I can't find an updated tier list with Guile.

While I agree tierwhoring is bad, you can always ask for help. Try to find people playing fightan on conventions, or hit up Fightcade. In my case, I play Hugo in 3s but I never really got shat on for it. I also learned how to play DeeJay on ST thanks to these threads and Fightcade.

I want to get a gamepad to play retro games, specially fighting games like SFIII. Thing is, I don't want something too fancy, but most of the cheap controllers look like they were going to break if you looked too hard at them, not to mention some look plain uncomfortable.

I have noticed games that were designed to be played in a joystick arcade are fucking unplayable with a keyboard (half circles are a pain in the ass to pull), and the way I have to hold my hands to access all the input keys becomes painful after a while, which is why I want that gamepad preferably with an analog stick. I have looked at controllers and it seems the Xbone controller would be decent since it's GNU/Linux compatible and it has improved on the 360's shitty D-Pad, but I dunno. Do you know of any other general purpose gamepads for arcade games, and do you know if the analog joystick is strightly better than a decent digital pad?

How do i input Geese's Raging Storm on a d-pad. It vexes me.

Figthing games have deliberately shitty controls. That's what's keeps me away from playing them more. They're made to make it harder to get the input you want, not because you have to do them so often or quickly, but because they're deliberately made to be convoluted. That's just bad game design. As a result I just stay away from them out of principle.

They're made so that you need seven inputs for something that could be done in two or at the most three inputs. In any other genre that would be considered a failing on the dev's part.

Unfortunately it's so ingrained by now that it's impossible to criticize it without being met with fanboy wailings.

story of my life

I know this feel too well

They already made a fighting game with simplified controls and it's called Super Smash Bros.

Depends, which pad do you have? Works better on circular D-Pads (which are harder to find since now most use the retarded sixaxis or the less comfortable cross+circle layout and call it a day) in my opinion. Heard the Duke Xbox controller has a great D-Pad, I've yet to try it out.
First you tap Down+Back, then quickly do the HCB (Slide from Forward to Back in an U motion) and finally tap Down+Forward, all with your left thumb.
I find 720s harder to do for some reason.

I know you're probably baiting, but if you want a fighting game with no motions you can go play Rising Thunder or Divekick

...

Wouldn't that be more due to that Daigo is really good at reading and punishing people? If someone does something like throw a projectile and he reads it he'll throw that tatsu to kill someone at a distance they thought they were safe at. Besides that, how is the whole game horrible in your opinion?


Not all are like that. Many fighters these days have a half circle as the most complicated input. Like Under Night In Birth (which has only 1 character with a 360 command grab), Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax, Vanguard Princess, Touhou 12.3, and Melty Blood. Even SF doesn't have that many complicated inputs. There's also the game Rising Thunder where you use special moves like it's Smash.

Mainly because the games are built around it. The better the move the more complicated the input so you can't instantly throw it out. Saying that, the games I listed above have very easy inputs so and even then many games have shortcut inputs so it can be even easier for people like you.

The 3S community is still pretty bad, but not like before (you used to get pissed on if you picked Hugo or Chun let alone their wrong super art). When 3S Online came out on the 360/PS3, the community began to act like elite autists again, pushing people away from the game. My area had a 3S event with some really obnoxious people when it came out (I left because I got sick of the elite autism). Fightcade seems hit and miss to me (I played the co-op games on it. People spaz over stupid shit).

>Still complete garbage player
Stay mad controllerfags

We can't all be as proficient as you, Satan.
I can pull off pretty much anything except 720s, I still can't fathom how people manage to do them without accidentally jumping

No, they're not. Buttons are two dollars each, and a lever is 25. You can caniballize a pcb from any controller (for the system you're playing on), and use literally anything as a case. Quit being a pussy and do it yourself.

Just regular ass ps2 controller. Thanks for the tip. One question, how fast should I go and is it bufferable? Playing Cvs2 if it matters.

Double half circles are the bane of my existence. Especially when I have to go from 6 to 4 instead of 4 to 6.

Only fighting game franchise I give a shit about is DOA but the PC port is garbo

I do just fine with an xbox 360 controller, though my first experience with fightan was Soul Calibur on the OG xBox, so your mileage may vary.


The double half-circle is a pretty mean input, but it's no double full circle.
Don't even get me started on pretzel inputs.

It's a shame DoA gets shat on for just being a costume DLC sim. I think DoA5LR was pretty solid. I main Ryu and Sarah. Honoka and Kokoro best girls.


I can't consistently do a standing double 360 but a double half circle in general is not easy for me. Moving my thumb to start the second half circle feels odd for me.

Its the best fighter on the market but the TnA legit scare most players away. its fucking retarded


DOA5 is so fucking good. Its criminal how underplayed it is and how BAD they fucked up the PC port. If that shit had lobbies it would be a completely different ball game. Woulda bought copies for anyone that asked.

...

To this day I don't really 'get' what the Z input arrow MEANS.

Like, how do I moze the stick like that? Forward, then… what? Diadonally… down? then forward? But then my motion feels like half circle back and forth.

I am deeply, deeply confused.

Forward then QCF. The Z bit is the shortcutting from forward down to QCF.

Just a dragon punch motion. Just slide your thumb forward, down-forward, down, then back to down-forward. So it looks like you're moving forward, try to press down by sliding your thumb to the down button on the d-pad, and then moving back up to forward but stopping half way.


With games like that and VF5 you're just going to have to find someway to play locally sadly.

I… Thanks, user. Now I can properly play Melty.

get shat on fuckers

No problem. Sadly non of my friends like Melty that much. Then again, I haven't even bothered to read Tsukihime.


PM3.6 is just insanely fun. Only thing I didn't like is how they made Turbo Mode completely mindless. I believe they should have kept it where you can't chain the same move over and over or have the option to switch between the two. Still I had some great times with that game.

Shame that pm 3.6 was thrown down the drain by Nintendo, i think it has the potential to outdo melee

Regular people are not interested in something which takes mastery. It's why everything that is a popular "esport" these days has some sort of mitigating element (i.e. randomness or team play). This allows people to rationalize away failure, be it from incompetency at the task or someone else being objectively better at it than you.

The other issue, is from fighting games themselves. They refuse to evolve past the established paradigms of design. Rising Thunder tried, and was doing it pretty successfully until Riot stopped it. But what did you hear? The bitching and moaning about the games mere existence was incredible. "CASUAL! IT'S CASUAL! AHHH FUCK IT'S CASUAL". "Casual" is the video game equivalent of "cuck" these days, it seems. All the exact same high-level techniques in traditional fighting games existed in Rising Thunder. It was glorious. But people who are not aware of those higher levels think fighting games are all about combos thought the game was shallow.

If Rising Thunder is shallow, then every fighting game ever made is shallow. Go win EVO then with your enlightenment.

But as I said, I lay this at developers feet. They need to be pushing the concepts of the genre. Pokken is fucking cool, the 2d and 3d thing is amazing. We need to see more of this sort of thing.

you really should.

Get the non h version if you can.

Yes, Nasu is that bad at sex.

My friends and I still play PM all the time. I curse this universe where there is so much drama around a game simply because it isn't "official".

Look he saw a dictionary of aquatic life and thought "this is totally how sex works"
putting it as "bad" is an understatement

The only people who don't like fighters are casual shitbabies who suck at them. Usually Dark Souls/Bloodborne or FPS players.

Gr8 joke m8

I hope you're good at putting that shit together because if you don't know how to do it, you're fucked with some costly parts.


Best girls are Momiji and Rachel (Tengu chick is cool too).


Japan doesn't give two fucks about PC ports 90% of the time despite KoF13 and GG Xrd might have good PC ports.


Lol, no. DoA5 is good, but it's nowhere near the best game in the market.

DoA is a game the fgc is very hypocritical about (the others being KI, MK*, Injustice, etc.). 5 is so much better than the last 4 pieces of shit, but no one really takes it seriously (Marie and the Kasumi clones didn't help).

*Some of it is justified with MKX being a sleazy fighter with disc-locked content and microtransactions. Fuck Ed Boon.

also cuz nintendoos cease and desist

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Dude, those games are way harder than SF IV and the timing for everything is fucking strict as hell. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.


This is literally, not figuratively, how people described SF IV back in 09. It's funny how everything has come full circle.

Sorry I play video games I like and not only internet-committee-approved titles. If it makes you feel better I also play Street Fighter.

As opposed to Street "1f links for BnBs" Fighter IV? Melty in particular is more lenient than any of the games mentioned.

One thing I dislike about fighters like Mahvel and SG is that they're too combo heavy and focused on very few interactions between the players. Granted, this means the interactions carry more weight, but it also skews focus on skill being based more on execution of the players (their ability to do combos without dropping them) rather than it being based on how they outplay their opponent (the footsies where they find their opening). This is pretty much a death sentence for any game hoping to see casual appeal as it makes the game more much critical of their individual mistakes.

I'm wondering if there are certain fighters that actually manage to balance footsies and execution. USF4 comes close since it's easy to pick up on the mental game as a newcomer, but there are certain execution hurdles that are rather absurd too.

Smash is horrible, fam. Just saying.

Marvel relied on tierwhoring more than anything else.


Someone hasn't played the older fighting games or even Guilty Gear and BlazBlue.

damn good judgement friendo

What does Holla Forums think of Rivals of Aether? Is it worth paying attention to or is it shit?

I'd rather be caught playing DoA5 than Smash any time.

wew slow down there lad, just because youre bad at it dosent mean its bad, it just means you need a new pair of hands, also a brain

GG's inputs for moves aren't that complicated compared to SF with its chicken wings and delta motions. Like, the most funky shit is reserved for supers (632146 and 2363214), exceptions being Potemkin Buster, Undertow and old I-no's Chemical Love.

That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion Smash is very good and I'll continue to play it. I'm glad there are so many diverse people with such varied opinions to interact with on this image board.

Thank fuck they changed it for Xrd.

lol, okay autist. No need to sperg over shitty autistic games like Smash. Play a real fighting game while you're at it.


SNK fighters want a minute of your time.

I know about SNK fightan with their double HCBs and other shit in SDMs. But still, I can't remember regular specials being harder to execute there than certain ones in SF. Sure, the overall execution barrier is higher, but still.

The fuck? Maybe I just have better impulse?
Either way, it's sad that tons people can't experience SF3 because they don't want to put in the time to get decent enough to play with friends. The animation is fucking stunning and the roster is way more interesting than garbage like Sm4sh despite being smaller.

Command grabs only work when you condition your opponent to block. If your friends are shitters who mash buttons it probably wouldn't help anyways

it took me less than a day to learn how to do zero loops after doing the trials for most characters

doom infinite is so easy you can learn it in like an hour

Most of my friends are pretty decent at the game. That reminds me though, I get a kick out of pulling the double health trick as Q on friends who suck at fighting games and watching them panic


Why does P:M get shit? Obviously Smash 4 is garbage but I see no problem with the others

Okay then, but will you stop posting about Smash in a thread made for fighting games? Thats the real question.

No, because I disagree with the assertion that a fighting game has to adhere to the strict design philosophy of typical 2D and 3D fighters to be called a fighting game. Platform fighters are a legitimate sub-genre of fighting game to me so I will continue to discuss them in threads for fighting games.

You are free to try changing my mind but I must admit I'm very stubborn when it comes to this topic.

Remember that it's not just how complicated the motions are. Most Capcom games are much bigger on hitstop than most SNK games, and most anime fighters have far larger cancel windows than conservative fighters. Also shortcuts vary wildly. For example Jojo HFTF has 2363214 inputs but it only expects you to do 2364, unlike something like GG which expects you to do the whole half circle.

Melee is for literal autists
Smash 4 is garbage
MVC is just straight up a terrible and boring game, to this day it absolutely boggles me that people enjoy it
SF5 is a complete and utter flop
ArcSys gives 0 fucks about western fans and screws them in the ass at every turn

Competitive games in general are just complete and utter shit at the moment, so whatever. League is shit, Valve is busy dumbing down and ruining CS/Dota for easy hats money, Overwatch has no interesting depth at all. The list goes on.

Maybe when SF5 is actually a finished game it will be worth playing

Im not going to try and change your mind, im just going to tell you that you're wrong.

Okay then this thread is not about that sub-genre, it is about the strict design philosophy of typical 2D and 3D fighting games.

Fighting games suffer from the same problem as SC2.

They are not team games, they are a direct battle of skill and the person who's better at the game will win.
People hate playing these kind of games because when they lose they can't blame it on anyone else but themself.
Sure, some people will try to do it anyways and blame the OP characters or claim that the enemy was playing cheap but that's just denial.

Team games like ASSFAGGOTs or even real sports like Soccer are so popular because you can make yourself feel better after losing by just thinking that you did everything right, it was your stupid team that dragged you down.

this is actually pretty accurate

I actually take losses in team based games pretty heavily, but thats usually since I play tank characters like Reinhardt who kind of need to help carry the team through.

As someone that has played fighting games and has seen casuals attempt to play them, I think the biggest problem is execution, which Seth Killain claims is why he made Rising Thunder and how random casuals they picked up managed to get into it quite well. However, nobody's able to find a sweetspot in simple execution that pleases both casuals and pro-players.

Rising Thunder was fun but not exciting or deep (Though that could be blamed on poor direction in general) and Pokken is just plain boring once you figured out what was going on in that game which is why it dropped so hard in players and viewership.

It's also partly as this user says
People don't like being the direct fault of their loss, especially casuals. You still get as much salt between all competitive games though.

If there was one game I believe catered to pros and casuals both almost 100% right, I think XDZW got pretty damn close. It was basically KOF, except…
Considering it was Tencent, I wouldn't be surprised if it was closed down in the middle of it years long beta just because they couldn't find a proper monetisation method that wouldn't piss off the chinese FGC. It didn't have anything P2W in it, money was only for costumes and character unlocks (and they were pretty balanced at that).

sc2 died because it was a shit game, scbw has a larger playerbase again

capped, great point.

Now try to get those setups against good players in a real game. Doing it in the training room and against someone moving around and playing neutral are exponentially different.

I am doomed to lose against everyone when i know i can do better

Here's a video if anyone wants to see.

Literally KOF with a few casual elements that aren't auto-combos.

I just got gifted Guilty Gear Xrd sign and I've never seriously played a fighting game before. Music is awesome but I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing. What do I need to do to get good, even the AI is kicking my ass

buy or make a hitbox. Keyboard warriors see good success with them

Guilty Gear Crash Course and Airdash Academy are both pretty good resources.

Thanks, that actually helps a lot

Godspeed.

I'd say pick a character that you like and stick with them. I'd recommend easy to play characters like Sol, Ky, Sin, and Elphelt for beginners, but you can play whoever you want. Do a couple of challenges for each character and see what you like and learn a few of the combos from that. For now you don't need fancy combos, just something that leads to a knockdown which is usually your sweep (crouching dust). GG is a very offense heavy game so learn how to defend/block. And yeah watch its pretty helpful.

Don't listen to him, he's leading you onto the path of niggerfaggotry.

PICK A TOP TIER

Is this bait? You'll get fucked up with Ky unless you have really solid knowledge on GG fundamentals and mechanics

DUDE
WEED
LMAO

Well you didn't make the thread, so I don't think you're an authority here.


What you are saying is that Tetris, Bust-A-Move and Devil Dice can not all be puzzle games because they all play completely differently. Fighting as a genre has more to it than "Game that plays like Street Fighter or Guilty Gear or Tekken".

Its not just because it plays differently, its just it would fit into a different genre better. Just like how fighting games are separated generally into 2D and 3D, Smash is in its own sub-genre of platformer, a combat platformer.

I think the main reason that people refuse to consider Smash a fighting game is because there is little to no fundamental knowledge that carries over to any fighting game, which is why most high-level Smash players get their asses kicked when playing other games like SF or GG and the SF or GG players get their shit stomped in Smash. The fundamentals you learn from playing Smash fit more into a platformer like Super Mario or something of that nature rather than any fighting game that isnt Smash.

Now, dont get me wrong, Im not saying it cant be played competitively. Im just saying it fits into a different genre better and Smash players only want it to be considered a fighting game to join the FGC "cool kids" club.

I've found my local FGC to be the most chillest dudes ever. Are you confusing internet forums with real life?

Koihime Enbu is pretty much all footsies and counterhit fishing.

Fucking casuals.

You haven't heard?
The team got bought by Riot Games and they instantly made them shut it down so they could make a minecraft clone or assfaggots, can't remember which one.

F

That's still at least 40$ bucks not including shipping.
It's even more expensive if you aren't in the USA.

Do you really expect every noob to spend this much money and time to build the case, learn about soldering, pcbs and put it together, for a game he's just trying to get into?
Most people don't even spend this much money on gamepads they use for multiple games.
You also forgot to mention that some pcbs are incredible hard to solder even for experienced people.

You really don't need an arcade stick, a lot of the time you can get by just fine with a controller

I've been playing some sf3 on Fightcade lately, and while I like it I am getting really fucking tired of Ken and Alex
I swear, out of the 25 people I have played against, 5 of them did not go Ken or Alex

I don't play many fighting games, are hitboxes normally like this, or are Skullgirl's hitboxes just amazingly good?

Skullgirls put far more effort than usual into their hitboxes, you can probably argue about how useful they actually are but it's nice to see at least.

For whatever reason MikeZ decided hitboxes that imitate the sprites were the best idea for Skullgirls, even committing one of the greatest sins of all; moving hitboxes in the idle animation. The highly animated hitboxes sometimes leads to some fuckery with combos dropping or correctly spaced normals whiffing.

The problem with the hitboxes that I posted were that the attack boxes are insanely huge compared to the character boxes. Elphelt is considered very powerful in Xrd because of shit like that.

Are you serious? Ky is a standard beginner character.

A place around me used to have fighting game nights until the owner got sick of the autists and people that went there (of course, they were Smash faggots). Long story short, most of the people I came across were shut-ins autists or elite pricks with certain games (to be fair, the pricks didn't go there as much). They weren't giving him money like the Mtg crowd does in their events, so he cut his losses (Can't blame him). The owner held a Third Strike event that was really bad.

What area are you in (East/Midwest/West Coast, Euro, etc)? There was apparently a good scene when I moved out of my old area until the place got shut down (I never went there because I don't want to go back to my old area).

Nintendo (and supposedly Konami) did kill it from behind the scenes. Instead of using a C&D that would only make them hated. They killed off streams and bribed to not have it shown anywhere, killing off the scene slowly. Until Konami forced them off the radar before the official 3.6.


True. And even then fighters don't even take much mastery to get to a competent level. But you must really look at why "you" are fucking up and how to fix it. Most people would rather not do that just to get in a genre.

I don't understand why it being easy to control upset so many people. But this game also showed that execution isn't a problem with fighting games. They lowered the execution floor and ceiling so that anyone can play with ease but kept all the usual fighting game tech. Casuals would still get bodied.


I sometimes play both of those and I enjoy fighters. However the Souls games have really shown how many people are terrible at video games. You can tell when you see people acting like beating a Souls game is a incredible feat that earns them gamer cred.


I gave that as a example because it's usually recommended to newcomers due to the tutorial. Though I hear the newest Guilty Gear has a great tutorial as well.

Literally all of it is true.
If we're talking about good fighting games.

How can I play this as someone who doesn't live in China?

I'm pretty sure it's already been shut down, or at least I haven't been able to find anything about it from 2016.

720s

fuck 720s I hope fighting games die out

Vanguard Princess, Last Blade 2, and Garou: Mark of the Wolves are your games then. Vanpi is heavy on footsie and space control. You pick one assist and 1 character. The combos are very short (rarely more than 4 hits) and the game has a parry system. Even the assists can parry.

Last Blade 2 is a SNK fighter with some crisp graphics and gameplay. You pick a character and a type of gameplay. Speed or power. Speed is better for combos and good punishes while power is better for footsies and reads.

Garou: Mark of the Wolves is another SNK fighter. In this game, combos are short and a good defense can actually heal you. You can guard in midair if you parry a attack and even do guard cancels to really punishes predictable players.


There is nothing stopping you from learning and beating them. I've picked up many games for the first time and beat people who were playing them for ages. You learn tricks from experienced people, mix them into your gameplay style, and become better over time. You would be surprised how people can play a game for 20 hours and still be shit.

The point I was getting at is that you'll naturally learn decent 10 hit combos by just playing the game and learning how the game works. Combos in many anime fighters have a natural progression from weak attacks, to stronger attacks, to special attacks, and then supers. Maybe with some type of cancel mixed in to extend them. Also newer players think combos are everything. Good fundamentals will carry you much further than just knowing a few good combos. Besides, not all fighting games have big combos.

Just play the game and you'll remember them over time. People see the big picture first instead of what's in front of them.

This shit only matters for pros. The only thing you need to know is if you have a move that can punish X or Y. You'll see that even if you don't know frame data.

A problem people run into when they think fighters are all about combos.

I have trouble pulling off a standing 720 myself. So instead I throw out a attack or jump so I can do the input while not moving or knowing where I'm going to land. People will try to block the aerial attack they think you're about to throw out and then get grabbed by the super.

This asshole right here has a 1800 command grab. That's 5 360s and it will take about 85% of your health. I've even seen people pull it off mid match.

me too but for many people there aren't enough opportunities to play with friends so if you want ot play more than 12 times a year and don't find playing vs AI fun, in most fighting games the only alternative is multiplayer where you just get rekt for hours on end until you manage to actually beat someone.

Whatever you do…

DO NOT BUY VANGUARD PRINCESS

The faggot thats been selling it on steam did not ask for the permision of the original dev to port and sell it and he took out a few characters and sold them as dlc even tho they were all in one package in the original.
If you buy Vanguard Princess none of the money will be going towards the original dev.

How is it still up?

The original dev hasen't done anything about it. He probably doesn't even know about it because he doesn't even know english, appearntly the guy who suspiciously is selling is also the one who translated it.

You mean the game with a small, easy to learn roster of characters and a full tutorial that teaches fightan game mechanics? What sort of shitstain are you if you can't learn those? If common sense and actual skill required is keeping people away from fighters then I say good, unless they go the same way as RPGs and Shooters.

do you have any way of contacting the original dev?

I don't.

Skullgirls is just a worse version of MvC2 tbh fam

you wouldn't recommend MvC2 to someone would you

Revelator probably has the best tutorial right now, GG has really been putting in the work lately for tutorials

Did you read my post at all? I'm saying it's good for beginners because it teaches the basics in a full tutorial. Yeah they can move on to better fighters later, but for now learning the basics should be top priority.


I'll have to check it out, then.

It also helps that Xrd is easier than Accent Core.


No, they can move now and just do the Xrd -SIGN- tutorial since it's pretty good already.

Sure if you're bad and never learn from your mistakes. Do you think the person that beat you got there without ever getting his ass kicked? Of course not, he got there from getting his ass kicked so many times he has learned to deal with all the bullshit your character can throw at him.

There will always be people better than you. But if you can learn from them, you can soon become better than many other people or even them. Someone here showed me how to play better at Arcana Heart 3 Love Max, giving the advice not to use Fiona because she was a scrub killer. Essentially a character made for people who don't want to learn how to play the game. Not that she's a bad character but bad for beginners.


I even explained why in the same post you quoted. The gameplay is just too overwhelming for new players. The whole meta is based around this. And 1 mistake causes them to watch their character get mangled for ages on end, then they have to get out of a wake up setup. Guess wrong and they get put back into the same situation until they die. Again, the tutorial is great but the meta is better suited for people more familiar with fighters.

I disagree, since just starting out the logical choice would be to play the arcade or single-player modes to get a feel for the mechanics. Sure, online play will lead to clusterfucks, but the AI isn't that bad with assists.

You have no fucking clue about Melty Blood, it's lenient as fuck compared to other fightans. As a super scrub, MB is the only game I can get any kind of combo off, aside from mashing buttons in SG.


Isn't the original game free, too?

Biggest problem is that people want to be gud when first they should try and get decent at the game instead. In my experience people jump into a game and want to do crazy strats right from the start unfortunately it doesn't work in fighting games. Mishimas have the EWGF? Ignore it until you have your basic fundamentals down. ToD combo you need to know for a character?Maybe you should start smaller (unless it's Marvel then you're fucked). Character has 200 fucking strings? Learn ten of them and have two or three for combo filler.

You don't need a fight stick at all. It's personal preference.

For 6 button fighters, I prefer the stick. For 4 buttons I prefer a controller.

I agree, and funnily enough I'm the opposite for preferences. I prefer stick for 4-5 button fighters but can only play 6 button fighters on a pad.

The thing is, most people dont buy a game to practice at it, they buy a game for fun and the possibility of always winning.

Fighting games arent like that. Its not a coinflip simulator or RNGesus deciding that you won, most situations that you lose it was solely because you did the wrong thing so people have nothing to blame.

Hell, learning combos, matchups, frame data, tech, and individual player techs is a whole another game in itself, one of which most people cant handle.

Everyone is a scrub at some point, it just takes longer for people to not be scrubs then most genres, you may have x amount of hours logged as a character, but that shit means nothing if you dont know how to get reads or some random techs.

Most people ive known in the FGC are fun as hell, its just over the years they have lost the patience and are tired of trying to teach people, only for them to button mash and give up and get mad, while on the contrary they get super excited when the actual player who is learning shows up.

You know what's weird is that despite liking sticks for 6 buttons, I can go either way on Killer Instinct. And a lot of times I'll switch if I'm having a bad day. Like if I'm not getting my linkers on the stick, I'll switch to controller, using the thumbstick, and be doing fine again. Sometimes it's the other way around. Shit's weird.

3rd Strike, USF4, etc. have to do it on a stick. Only KI is that way for me.

I forgot about these when I implied execution might be the biggest barrier for casuals. I think casuals would be more inclined to learn these sorts of things if they didn't have to manually search for it and could just find it all in the game itself, as well as more "in your face" learning methods beyond the standard tutorials.

This. I play games for fun not work. I'll put in effort until I come up against someone so good that I feel no amount of practice would make up for the skill difference between us, and at that point I give up and play something more casual.

Games will never have Matchup data or tech in the tutorials because most is discovered after release or spontaneously.

Most people rely on goodwill tutorials posted online by other players or by watching high level matches.

Which is why devs could have a tech news platform and/or allow custom tutorials/lessons to be submitted (and put up after review)

Literally anything that reduces learning time or practical lessons with a safety barrier will help casuals get into fighting games.

I don't think that would work for fighters that get continued support and balance changes after launch though, especially patches that include frame data changes. I just don't see anyone wanting to put in that amount of work, whether it's the community or the devs.

Come on now, they probably work harder than all the MOBA communities combined.

Also the player submitted guides and tutorials would benefit everyone, not just casuals.

Would you do it?

There's only one thing you need to know about fighting games: If they are available in Korea, don't bother. You won't win.

The only potentially good ones are those who allow SOME degree of latency so you can play against burgers and hear them rage and break their controllers on mic.

Yes.
The amount of time it takes to record a video of new tech is probably longer than it takes to make a simple tutorial or even just a writeup that quickly explains new tech.

Having it all accessible in the game, making the game itself the source of tech and knowledge would be a god damn milestone.

I say pick the character you like, and learn from there.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about choosing a character, rather fighting other characters with all that shit.

idk fam, you certainly have more faith in people not being lazy than I do. I mean, I know some definitely would, but that's a lot of work for a handful of people. I sure wouldn't.

Just because you're a lazy piece of shit doesn't mean other people aren't. Are you even aware that people spread new tech all the time almost as soon as people find out about it? It's just a matter of making the game itself a central source for it.

You're really salty about this.


Yes, and it's only a few that do it. Why would making the game a central source matter other than ease of access? It's not going to encourage more people to submit to it on its own.

Because you're acting pretty pessimistic and missing the point. Ease of access is the whole point of it while also seeming unaware of what already happens.

I have no idea what you mean by this. People already submit lots of stuff into Steam guides for individual games and into what could be considered the "central hubs" of games (like Dustloop). If the game is upfront about allowing people to submit the tech for people playing the game to see from the get, people are encouraged to submit into the game itself because it's already established a position as where to find tech, along with whatever other community forms around it.

while you're also unaware*

From what I heard the original dev sold all rights back when Fukushima happened to try and raise money for aid.

Truly a man to be admired.

Hurts more than it helps, leads to some really fucky situations where things you expect to hit just whiff, makes combos more character specific than they should ever be, and contributes to the weakness of anti-airs in the game.
At least it's better than SF4 where hitboxes change during hitstun.

So we agree then. Fighting games require a lot of commitment before they start becoming fun.

Did I go to >>>/fighters/ 8ch.net/fighters/index.html by mistake?

I like Mike Z's ideas but not his execution of them;
mikezsez.blogspot.com.au

KOF girls own.

Just replace all the nouns to fit it with chess to explain to them how poor their criticisms are

And daily reminder that combos were a glitch that the devs decided to keep in because nobody would be skilled enough to pull it off

Only if you're a bitch who can't take a loss

Main prob about fightan games is that the biggest one atm SFV has a crap tutorial. After playing VF, GG, SG tut; I wish I had that knowledge earlier.

Wew I just beat the arcade story mode for Slayer and I'm having a blast, now learning about roman cancels and memorizing some combos. This has been a good answer for my need of some fast paced autistic-levels of a skill based game

Mike Bison!
Updated his default but not his stage?