When were they at their peak: Blizzard Games' Lore

wait what?

They removed talent trees around the panda release. Instead you get this thing and just choose what you want.
You also choose a specialization and your stats and passives just adjust to it, whether it's tanking or not.

I've never been into Warcraft or Starcraft lore, but Diablo 1 was the peak of the lore in the series, and I was this as someone who started in Diablo 2. More and more of the atmosphere was lost in each setting and it moved away from the more christian theology feel to being like the DnD outer planes.

By D3 the demons might as well have just been space aliens, that's essentially all they were at that point. Same with the angels.

It actually felt a little like the angels were protoss and the forces of hell were zerg, now that I think about it…

Diablo went from horned demon man to demon lizzard to an alium woman with several arms. So you may be onto something.

...

They couldn’t resist sticking in another Serah Kerrigan wannabe like Sylvanas Windrunner (and Jaina in an early draft of WC3).

You mean that there was a possibility of Lich Queen?

thank god i got my fill of wow before it came to this

Only played wow and that peak was defenitely Wrath Of The Lich King. After Pandaria everything went down the shitter
Never played
My favorite was D2 but the first one was nice too.

pretzel-lectern.blogspot.com/2016/05/behind-warcraft-iii-interview-with.html

Apparently Jaina was supposed to die in an early draft of WC3 and become a Banshee or otherwise undead. Also, she and Arthas were planned to be shown as more of a pairing.

As you can figure, the dying and becoming a undead event got passed to Sylvanas.

Look, I know a lot of people like Warcraft 3, but understand that it completely fucked the universe up to that point. You saw the same kind of doomsaying back then that you see today about [Latest WoW Expansion].

Imagine if something like Warcraft 3 came out today. A game taking an established franchise and going completely fucking bonkers with it. One of the established races are rewritten from being an unstoppable bloodthirsty army who practiced dark magic to being noble misunderstood savages who practiced shamanism. Two entire continents are introduced - one of which was at least known to exist by the characters in the previous game, but the other coming literally out of fucking nowhere. Zombies become a playable "race". The bad guys from the previous games having been the front for an even BIGGER group of bad guys. One of the key villains from the very first game? Turns out he's an alright dude after all.

You'd all be saying that Blizzard had jumped the shark. Which, back then, is exactly what happened.

wow, what a brilliant explanation of the difference between D1 and D2 !

I never thought of it more than "D2 is more cartoonish", but now you've put those brilliant words onto this feeling.

I never saw it like that, you're right.

FUCKING THIS

People seem to forget Warcraft was originally intended to be a Warhammer game but couldn't make the deadline so it's funding got pulled off when it was just finished before being bought by Blizzard, names changed and eventually released.

Agreed. Despite how much people liked the game itself and how many interesting things the modding community did, WC3 changed everything about warcraft.

IIRC one of the main reason WoW work that well is the fact that it s based of w3 game
and until WotLK and the over casualisation it was based on w3.
then
instead of making a w4 and expand the lore that you culd explore in a mmo
they discover that s it s much cheaper and it give you much more money to simply transform WoW
from an MMO to a diablo Like game where the player IS the hero

because:
w4 would be 60-70$/€
while WoW is 50 + monthly fee + microtransaction

unlike vannilla or BC where you start as a lowly mercenary until you become if you where "hardcore" enouth one of thoses elite mercenary taking part in raids to defeat big lore characters.
aka the thing that fit the most in an mmo: everyone start as weak and you will have to work hard to be more than a simple mercenary doing quest for locals.

oh fuck am i drunk? or did i misspell that much on purpose ?

Too bad both of them are shit right now.
Maybe besides 40k but I heard it also is going to shit.

Blizzard North.

Everything just went to hell after Diablo 2: LOD.

Hard to stomach that Blizzard was responsible for the MMO cancer.

I suspect Merzen and Co. would agree with you here. From debateably WoW Vanilla onward what happened in the franchise ended up undermining WC3 (Alliance VS Horde over and over again, Theramore getting a minor place in WoW before getting blown up, etc.). One can can figure that they regret or have contempt for WC3.

One blogger wrote that Metzen and Co. stopped trying to move the franchise forward after The Frozen Throne. He pointed out that WoW would revisit past characters and events alongside doing something totally new now and then. The second one being done well, the first not at all.

when Blizzard North ran the show

TBC where things started to go shit, first changes to burning legion lore, naarus and shit show that was illidari.

Thing what it could been if Handled properly.

explain

because at the end of w3 since illidan faild again he clearly said he will prepare to face the burning legion .
he was preparing and the illidari where made for that.

the betrayal of kael and his atk on shattrath to force the alliance and the horde to destroy the one and only force prepared and specialize in defeating the burning legion
and the fact that we learn one patch after that in the final raid that kael was indeed allie this the burning legion thus confirming this previous statement

show how stupid alliance and horde are .

and again : how their conflict is now meaningless moreover with recent event² and they should revamp the faction and maybe create a 3rd one

²everytime now they create a convinient yet stupid plot device to stupidly divide horde and alliance .

to sum up and because i m to drunk to spell correctly

you are right in a way since it s there that convinience and "forced lore" start to appear and hit your face like a truck because fo how stupid it can be .

Yea now in legion illidari makes sense but before information we got now they weren't bad guys until some fucking reason after several brutal wars and explosion of planet there were still civilians and good guys living in outland that illidari did't see eye to eye. so alliance and horde just march in and start killing every one for loot just because they were bad!!!!!

illidari was faction that was neutral but against same enemis alliance and horde got, scourge and legion and there should not been reason to wipe them out, maybe kael.

It would be much better if ilidian had gone completely crazy and sit on hes ass at BT, nagas sayed fuck this shit and moved back to azeroth and only true troops illidari had were ilidians own demon hunters that were trying keep burning legion taking over outland. So at start of expansion you go outland to fight legion and you run to illidari, first you start as enemy of illidari, then you found that kael has betrayed ilidian for legion and rest of illidari is ok. last raid is you and illidari join forces against burning legion. At end of exspansion ilidian will snaps out of hes madness and take hes demon hunters and will lead them against legion.

The old talent trees were fucking terrible. You had to waste points on pvp stuff to get a raid stuff, and half of the pvp talents sucked too. Silencing Shot was one of the Hunter's shittiest attacks, and it wasn't worth a point.

The new tree sucks, but the old one was pretty bad.

3 was awful, but RoS showed a little promise; then came the retarded seasons, item revisions, and more class imbalances which made the game even worse. Not even the "Not-Horadric-Cube" and "Not Cow Level" could save Diablo 3.

since even after 10 000 year of imprisoment he still manage to stay sane … it s impossible to honestly say he when crazy after his defeat by the lich king.

i was bad at the lore for a long time
so much that i was EXTREMLY surprise to discover that the coming of the orc etc was …. SUPER RECENT !
not even one generation …

and here i though it was a conflict of hundred of years ….
why? because they use speak of it as an old legend (gul dan, the corruption etc … )

It was never good. Its babbys first fantasy fan fic. Its chinese bootleg warhammer.

The only way you could consider it worth any merit was if you played them young and have misappropriated feelings of nostalgia that colours your judgement.

They are not good. They never were.

I thing orcs comming was like 15-20 year ago. And best part garrosh is way older then green jesus. thrall was born azeroth but garrosh was old enough to be warrior in second war but avoided it because plague.

That wasn't true for old builds and even then, they could have remade it instead of drop it altogether.

but they did remake it, for endgame.
which considering the fact that WoW is endgame focused was a smart decision.'
mechanically the game was at it's peak in MoP, lorewise i'd say wrath.

Which mechanics exactly ?
Because in my memory MoP was a clusterfuck on release.
People with pvp gear would queue up on high level raids and dick around happily while professions were shit from the very start and the month I spend on leveling blacksmithing was wasted the moment I touched a dungeon.

I wonder what WC Lore would be like if WoW started a century after TFT. Which they considered doing but backed away from.

Blizzard lore has always been mediocre at best. Remember that most of that shit comes from a developmentally arrested balding metalhead.

Arthas did nothing wrong before he went off to Northrend.

during his final combat vs illidan the LK gave all the power he could, giving him a boost

at this moment he became the lich king and wear the lich king helmet was just to complet the fusion.

You could tell kinda how good a player was by his talent tree. There was more ways for them to make a mistake.

I always thought of it as more of a bonus thing you got. Like you got to get Chains of ice as a PVE DK.

Is that 100% metzens fault?
He went into like this weird liberal human (white) guilt thing where only the Orcs could be the good guys. You are right, it was never intended for them to be noble savages.

Chasing after a shit tier demon was a mistake.

We can't attribute everything to Metzen. Sure he was the driving force but people looked at what he wrote, liked it and allowed it.
You also have Christie Golden who wrote books about muh noble thrall and the horde in general.
She mainly wrote star treck garbage before and then went on to write about warcraft.

It was more than just Metzen.

Interestingly, the cancelled Lord of the Clans game didn't have the "We were corrupted by demons into world conquerers" reveal. Thrall even did what was apparently Necromancy.

Gonna need some hard proof for this one

why dont you just read the dam lore then ?