What is a better MMO: WoW or FFXIV?

FFXIV is nice. The story is cringy and was made by complete autists. I really don't like how the NPCs don't make some kind of noise when you talk to them, it makes it feel very dead. I'd honestly like it alot more if they just made some kind of nintendo-esque sound for it or just a WoW like greeting.

TESO is cucked, all the quests are race bait

Runescape is old and autistic

WoW just went down the shitter

The only good thing about TERA Is it's combat, so far I don't think you can even get sidequests that aren't randomly given to you. Also it's very grindy.

The Grind was the worse thing, don't know why Koreans like that trash in their games. I did enjoy the look of the game and the gameplay, but after awhile it just doesn't seem fun anymore. Plus I'm shit in PvP so I really couldn't get into that stuff.

how so? I don't know anything about the game.

...

Stay triggered

Every one of the quests is about how some x race guy says he has an z race friend that isn't accepted by the locals even though he has the skills to do y

Also I played as a high elf and the main story there was about defeating racist high elves that wanted to keep the island high elvish

Have I triggered you with my choice of words, fellow Holla Forumsredditor?

Might as well use this thread.
Can anyone sum up the difference between FFXIV now and a year ago, before when Heavensward released?
I only played until they added blue/red scrips and I stopped being interested in it.

That's disgusting in every way and defeats the purpose of even having races

I think he just wanted an explanation besides cucked or autistic

Its a shitty MMO, seriously just got play something else. Never waste your time on MMORPGS.

they added two new classes and a pallet swap of the cat people.

I guess I'd have to say WoW because while both have atrocious gameplay, barely any player interaction when leveling, and incredibly boring exploration I suppose WoW has a decent art style that looks a lot more consistent than XIV and a mostly seamless open world.

This is what I meant by cucked. It's full of shoehorned bullshit.

What I meant by FFXIV's story being autistic is that it is full of old shit that's been used by every other story in existence. There's fairies that only you can see because you're oh so special etc. That kind of shit. Honestly, it's not that big of a problem but I found it hard not to cringe at it.

Runescape is autistic just because of a combination of it's controls, graphics, and community. I honestly haven't played it that much, but it seems that the game appeals only to autists and only autistic 14 year olds play from what I've seen. I'm sure not everyone that plays it is one, since plenty of Holla Forums plays it, but I don't think that would take out the autism.

It's like saying which turd is better, they're both still shit at the end of the day so why even have this discussion?

Why has it become a staple for games to have to social and interactive with other players to be even considered developed and made? What is the draw to this shit idea anyways? At least with older games you had to LAN and or be Local.

developers are obsessed with forcing players onto a platform so to speak so they can more easily shove microtransactions down their throat. it also makes them less likely to quit you cold turkey.

They've finally started trying to experiment with different content. Decently challenging 24man raids, roguelike dungeons, ….. whatever Diadem was…., Treasure map dungeons. THey said they're considering raid tier 24man dungeons too

The endgame raid now has a story mode version and a coil level version. Primals and raids now drop token items that you can exchange for your drops after enough clears when RNG fucks you in the ass. Crafters now have their own tomes too. Shitload of QOL stuff's been added too, but also has a lot more of the same. Every patch brings a new trial boss and its extreme (So far, we've had Knights of the Round, Fiend, and Nidhogg). Every even patch brings the new raid tier and a new set of tomestones, every odd brings the new 24man. A new -new- dungeon and a new hard mode dungeon every patch, each patch adds a quest to improve your relic and some hildibrand shenanigans.

Among the many trends that go through society, the need for centralization and connectivity has been going on for years even before 2007. It's the whole bring people together and fun with friends desire that is driving people to create such things on the Internet. They think the world can get better when they put people together and that good things will start happening. It always falls flat on it's face since people don't like people who aren't considered their people. Even if it hasn't fallen apart, it's a pile of shit devoid of any kind of enjoyment since moderation has to be enacted to remove anything that can causes division. It works best if the name of the game is to actually compete and have dividing lines between each other, which is natural and creates fun, but this is generally look down on because developers get scared that people are complaining and then go down to moderate and nerf things that nullifies competition.

Neither. It was Guild Wars. Guild Wars was the only good MMO. It had the best world, the best single-player mode, the best competitive multi-player, the best structure for co-operative multi-player, the best range of challenges, the best versatility in terms of class creation, the best visual aesthetics, the best variety in enemy skill-selection, the best design for titles and achievements, the best implementation of a cash-shop, the best NPC companions, the best versatility in terms of character appearance, the best expansion packs, the best implementation of new content, the best in-game holidays and events, the best game-play mechanics. Everything.

There was never a sequel.

FFXIV was tainted by "localization" so WoW wins by default.

HW is a retread of ARR to the point that everything is essentially known before it drops. SE is getting more jewish and most of the new things that the devs brought out have fallen flat. Diadem is dead and the Feast Arena pvp is dead as well. Frontline pvp is shit as usual, but a decent way to get tomes for the other grinds. Two sets of crafting gear were released. The i170 set is shit as it caps out at 2 meld slots rather than the usual 5, which prevents it from being useful. The i190 crafting gear is really good and decent to craft.

We're getting a new dungeon system in 3.35, which should be coming soon and hopefully it isn't complete shit like Diadem and Feast were.

People are super salty over not getting houses, which should be fucking obvious to anyone with a working brain. Housing will never fulfill player's desire. Yoshi is currently siding towards banning people who sell their homes, which is beyond retarded. Having said that, most homes will just stay empty and occupied until Yoshi decides to unfuck himself.

New 24 man was released and it's similar to WoD in that df is fucking retarded and unable to pass it for the most part. The new trial is dumb as fuck in df as well.

Other than that, FF14 is what it's always been. It's a nice themepark mmo with a pretty interesting story. Also, inventory space is going to be a major issue for most as we get more and more expacs. Too bad SE is hooked on selling you extra retainers for a borrowing fee.

Best: FF11, EVE online (if you are into that sort of thing)
Between the two: FF14 right now. At it's peak WoW.

Right now, WoW shouldn't even be considered as a viable option.

They're increasing inventory for the next xpac

Did you play on a shit server? I played on both EU and JP server and the differences is like day and night. EU is by far the most casual server, everything is sold in a very high price because nobody want to craft, peoples still making PF for sephirot clear party.

Dofus.

or Pokémon Revolution Online

need fucking source. I wish they make personal chest box to store crafting materials, fuck paying for extra retainer

What a joke couldn't imagine being that much of a sucker to pay monthly while the company is trying to sale me inventory expansions. This is why MMOs will continue to be shit because retards support this shit.

It's pretty shit but as far as MMOs go it's definitely the least worst of them all.

What a joke genre.

wow doesnt even compare to FFXI.

how was anything I said an opinion you overreacting faggot?

I actually agree, even if this is meant to be bait, but ths is Holla Forums so im a paid shill.

Its got good PvP as simple as that, its like GW2s pvp but stripped of all the PvE bullshit.

Its not DAoC alright, but its still pretty competent at what it does and the presentation is good enaugh.

Of all the things you complain about its that?

Ill take it over paying 15 bucks a month so that they MAY release content.

You know what? The DLCs cost 20 each, guess what, youll get one every 3 months and you dont have to buy them.

You dont need them to be max level, you dont need them to get good gear, best gear is optained by dungeons PvP and crafting just like in any other MMO.

DLCs are primarily there for the Skyrim audience.
They are based on solo play, they are filled with serana tier waifu bait and they occasionally throw a bone to the lorefags.

If you are in for the PvP you can ignore them.

The story is about defeating high elves who want the other guy on the throne.

The elves faction is still the precursor to the thalmor of the later games.

In the first zone there is literaly a class beeing taught that all other races are inferior.
This also includes Khajiit and Bosmer.

They still are elves so the dominion considers em saveable, just like in the later games mind you.

Also

Yes but you also get quest options where you reinstate slavery, kill a runaway slave for beeing a dick and help enslave an entire tribe of goblins.

Or the Orc zone which is literaly about a liberal ruler who attempts to "enlighten" the Orcs beeing the big bad and the xenophobic traditionalist beeing the one who takes over and restores order, who is also shown as the guy you are supposed to root for and you help him become king of the orcs.

Fucking memes.

In the past? WoW up to Burning Crusade.
I'll toss in Wrath, cause despite it going casual, it had its moments.

Current WoW is Facebook garbage. FFXIV picked up the torch. It's not BETTER than classic WoW, but it's a sidestep from a crumbling floor.

where's an MMO that does something fun, Planetside 2 was alright

>Now takes

Aion

WoW is still the best MMO on the market, it's not even a competition. The only reason to play anything else is for dressing up loli girls.

Runescape

Bitch, most of us (at least I'd like to think) have been browsing Holla Forums for over a decade, you're gonna have to do better than that.

It's true, though. Just take a look at half of these alternatives posted in the thread. If you're going to waste time playing a shitty MMORPG, you're better off playing the one that's the least horrible of the lot.

-2/10 we had better bait ten years ago

Both are shit.

Ohh dang, guys! He played the beta, well shit, we all know that if you played a day or two of a game's beta, ya just, ya just know these things. I mean this guy's obviously a expert on games, development and psychology. I mean, who are we to disagree with this all mighty master of knowledge. He must be able to see the future! :O

Now that the amusing sarcasm is over with. 1) You don't matter even a microscopic bit the zenimax, or the ESO/TES community, so you're opinion is less than nothing. 2) You don't know this, because the game didn't cater to your obviously stupid standards doesn't mean it will fail. And finally, this games fanbase is larger than probably any other fanbase for a video game, so do you think for even a second that zenimax would REALLY let this game fail, this is a HUGE ASS STEP for the title, they can't let it fail.
So take that stupid opinion of it failing and leave, because you can't even provide GOOD and LOGICAL reasons why it will fail. And i'm sure you'll just respond to this with the first 5 words being "shut up stupid fucking faggot" or something like that, because its already been shown you lack the intelligence for a good argument.

So i challenge you, amuse me.

Lol no.

Wow is complete shit tainted by Metzen's greed, terrible decision, and now sjw bullshit. I don't know about you, but 14's translation was actually decent.

Someone's going to bring up horsebird :^)

well I just read the rest of the thread and you've confirmed to me that every MMO currently out is pure trash

nice.. pasta

Whatever you say, man. Enjoy playing BDO and TESO.

Make way for the good shit, may it forever rip in requiescat. Serious answer though, learn moonrunes and play PSO2 as a waifu simulator.

Enjoy playing wow, shittaste.

The only good MMOs are Ragnarok OL and Runescape

I think FFXI is the only MMO I'd say is worthwhile over WoW, it's the comfiest game I've played. Too bad about the Nexon phone game thing, though.

How can anyone think WoW was ever good?

Maybe if you're a faggot whose first MMO was WoW.

But after WotLK?
after Cataclysm?
after MoP?
after nine months of SoO?
after WoD?

Funny, neither of them is Ultima Online. O Dark Age of Camelot.

Well it's not like Holla Forums's opinion in video games let alone MMO matters.

So many outright wrong information in every mmo thread/guild. Crying that two weeks is too long to hit max level.

Hell, for 99% of you faggots WoW was the first MMO, probably bc or wotlk at that

Now let's not get crazy here, MoP added plenty of assets to the game.

R.I.P.

You know it to be true.

And of course French do female pandahumans better.
BRAVO BLIZZARD

...

These retarded kikes are desperate for the shekels, aren't they? However they shut down free vanilla servers and they refuse to make ones, even though people agreed to pay for it.

Fuck those losers.

My first MMO was PSO for the Gamecube and it was shit

Fuck you niggers you didn't learn shit.

On the plus side I no longer crave mmos, they are all shit and my fond memories have been shit all over so hard to the point where I no longer associate them with WoW at all.

Thanks for being so shit blizz.

I think its even more disgusting some people here would actually pay for a official vanilla / TBC server from Blizzard.

It's not like people here are the brightest vidya consumers to ever walk this earth.
Many preordered/bought fo4, ds3, nudoom and will do so again with nuquake.

Burning Crusade was the only time WoW was good.

Some people never learn.
Some people didn't have the brain to learn.

it's not like it matters anymore. Blizzard is gaining profit with Wow people play the last expansion holy fucking shit why, Diablo 3, Hearthstone and Overwatch.

They have plenty of consumers to keep around until their fame dies down or they fuck up big timel.

XIV for one reason to me: older content is still viable. Poetic tomes (lev. 50 currency) can still be used to get stuff that contributes to lev. 60 content. You can also dump poetics into lev. 50 gear to help level up a class if you haven't done it yet. Older raids have new items added or older items are turn-ins for lev. 60 stuff. you can submit pre-60 crafting or dungeon gear for seals/scripts that help you purchase new crafting recipes-or gear for low level classes. Hunts grant lev. 60 and 50 tomes as well so people still do those. Beastman quests have new items, etc.

You also get bonus rewards if there's a newbie completing the dungeon for the first time. People love this and actually teach them the ropes-or at least don't complain and kick them.

Token grinding is a fucking terrible way to make old content relevant. Introducing a "new" token system where the currency has an orange strip on its icon instead of a red or blue one, calling it "mystical" or somesuch, and slapping it onto the latest content so you have to run it ad-nauseum to get new shit is incredibly lazy game design.

XIV fucking killed itself with this shit for me.

You grind best tribes for tokens to buy more tokens.
You do your daily queues for tokens to trade for more tokens.
You grind dungeons for tokens to buy more tokens.
You grind grind pvp for tokens to trade for more tokens.
You grind braindead 24 mans for tokens to trade for more tokens.
You trade these tokens after grinding enough of them (it takes like a mointh unless you go full fucking autism) for MORE FUCKING TOKENS which you can then finally trade for the items needed for a relic weapon along with a hefty amount of gil/crafting tokens(which are made exclusively for the purpose of being tokens in this transaction).

And what do they do next? Whats the next step in this truly epic legendary weapon quest?

You grind old raids and tokens to buy more tokens.

Fuck Heavensward.

Nigger I don't even play that shit since it's an insult to XI fans, but you're fucking dead wrong there.

Don't like it, don't do it, but being able to do old content (and I don't mean doing last expansion raids solo while eating cheetos because stat inflation) is a good thing regardless of whether you want to do it or not, don't like it? Skip it, but having the option to do it is nice regardless, wasting old content because it's not new is the fucking death of MMOs.

Thats not what I said at all.

And you can't skip it, you need those tokens to buy the latest gear on top of being required for bullshit like the anima line. Its a double whammy of sub time milking thanks to gating reasonable return of time/token behind a daily limit.

Making old content relevant is great, but tokens are not how you fucking do it. Cosmetics, rare sellable gear, materials for always-relevant consumable crafting, those are some ways you make old content relevant. With tokens you just slap them onto whatever content you push, its lazy and extremely tired.

So you're pretty much forced to do it if you want to upgrade your Sword of Buttfucking lvl 101 to Sword of Buttshattering lvl 103?
That's pretty shite.

In Guild Wars, you didn't have to grind at all for max level weapons. You could get them by completing quests and similar tasks in-game. The only grinding needed would be for purely cosmetic items like Chaos Gloves and Destroyer Weapons.

Just saying. Too bad there was no sequel.

Yes. They've been doing it since launch but it wasn't so prevalent and it looked like they wee moving away from it. Even the alternative to grinding the anima weapon chain is grinding a weekly raid for a chance at a token to upgrade a weapon you buy with fucking tokens. Worse some jobs don't have a choice as one is BiS and the other is pants on head retarded itemization.

Heavensward is 100% pure token grind.

You brought it up. Might as well explain it.

Guild Wars and FFXI were my favorite MMOs in that gen, pity WoW became popular instead and everyone copied that.

I like FFXIV approach on gear to be honest. It show who is the scrub and who is the hardcore players.

or who's unemployed

That is what you said and your attempt to dodge is also wrong. If you don't want to grind the relic you just *don't do it.* You can use the current lev. 60 tomes and run the latest content to get new weapons equivalent to the relic. Don't like that either? well then make friends and raid for weapons. They aren't forcing you at all to do older content outside of giving you an alternate way to grind. If you don't like that then…I dunno what to tell you.

There are foreigners in the game who use horses in their homeland. They call Chocobos horsebirds.

So correct my understanding of FFIV if it's wrong: the raiding in the game is extremely bad because of how laggy the game is and the game is laggy because it was poorly coded/designed from the ground up.

My friends raided in FFIV and that's what they basically told me about the raiding; it didn't matter how good the fights were, what mattered is that raiding in that game was an exercise in frustration because you'd get hit by an AoE you had been out of for 3 seconds before the cast ended over and over again and cause wipes and deaths because of it.

The only good content in WoW was TBC heroic 5 mans, Sunwell, a few hard modes in Ulduar and maybe original Naxx, but original Naxx was 40 man and 40 man raids sucked because you had to carry a ton of retards. The fights themselves weren't particularly difficult, it was about tank poaching and consumable/world buff stacking.

the tick rate is fucking awful, it made a mechanically hard fight easier than all hell and a mechanically simple one super hard

WIldstar

Out of those two, FFXIV

XIV is fucking braindead to begin with though so who fucking cares. inb4
The only thing hard about the new savage is getting the other retards to not fuck up since its pretty much a guaranteed wipe if anyone does. I played it nigger, till I was fucking sick and practically falling asleep at the keyboard every raid night.

And that is why I unsubbed. Are you triggered?

You're failing to realize "doing it" is the entire fucking game once you finish the main story quests. Token grinds are still not interesting whereas random loot drops that you can potentially sell or use at least provide a carrot on a stick like a slot machine.

Token systems suck. XIV is nothing but token systems. Unless they change that the game will die as more and more people realize this.

I'm sorry you're frustrated but you can't blame the game if you're the one who played yourself to death. All things in moderation and all that. Meanwhile I'm going to keep playing with my FC and teaching newbies the ropes. Casually.

May you find a game that better suits your needs. Perhaps LoL or HotS? If they're too grindy for you maybe a Mario or Zelda game? God of War? I guess coins/rupees and souls could be considered tokens but I'm sure you can stomach a little of it so you don't have to worry about grind.

damn I just have to say, that's the weakest comeback I've seen on Holla Forums in awhile.

You seem assblasted that someone doesn't like the shitty gear treadmill that FFXIV has

Silly user, it's not like I suggested Barbie on Roller skates. I'm just helping you think of games that offer gratification at a faster rate then XIV. Considered a fighting game like Street Fighter or Blazblue? No grind or tokens to worry about with those. Well….maybe some unlocks you need to repeat some fights for but I assure you nothing as bad as FFXIV.

That's because SE is cheap as shit and is barely supporting FF14 with manpower and resources. Then you have the idiots that support a cash shop and that just opens the door for SE to get even more jewish.

Dude that defense is weaker than fuck.
I mean I've been in a lot of shitposting sprees but christ that's awful. I think the last time I saw something this bad was during a few summers ago where some pro-lifer tried to argue that women having the abortion shouldn't be criminalized but the doctors doing it should

You dont need to grind for gear if you cleared Savage mode, scrub. Grinding is for faggot that can't clear the end game content.

...

FFXIV private servers when?

To be fair, if there are alternatives to the token grind then that user is right.
Blame the retard pretending you are forced to grind tokens.

That'd be a better argument if you weren't talking about a freaking MMO in CURRENT YEAR honestly.

oh you are forced to do all the old content though.
To get to the expansion areas you're forced to go through all the old content.
It's a massive pain in the ass for new players

I should clarify.
You hit 50 and then there are… fuck like 14 dungeons you're required to do before you can do heavensward stuff.
All of them are outdated and only run by people speeding through for tokens

So when you're leveling you're forced to see all the old content instead of just doing heroics for tokens to jump straight to the new raid ala post TBC WoW?
That'd suck if you had to make new characters, but since it's FF you can just switch jobs and have everything leveled in the same guy like in XI right?

I don't see the problem, you're not forced to replay content you haven't build based on what you said.

no that was the clarification reason.
You do content that's the old outdated endgame.
You hit 50 (which isn't max) and then you have to grind out the entire old endgame (because there are Ilevel lock checks) to get to the new expansion.
It's an awful execution of the expansion deal

FFXI.

Honestly I'd prefer that over the WoW get your free loot jump straight to the latest shit and everything else is a ghost town model.
Not sure how bad it is but it sure as hell is better than WoW's last raid or bust model.

I see, you're "that guy"

Also in video form

Nice try, but no.
I'm saying if I buy the expansion, and I hit max level through doing all the old shit, I shouldn't be locked at the old max level until I grind out the 20 odd dungeons that were added in random patches.

Like hey lets look at WoW and TBC. You hit 60 and you weren't required to do any additional content to go to outland.

And all the old content was thrown into the thrash, how is that good?

...

I'm saying that "hey I know you want to do the new shit, but here's a ton of old shit that you don't care about you have to slog through first"
is shitty design.

Like make it transmog fodder, or some crafting materials that you can sell rather than "bear token to trade to some asshole"

Are fucking retarded? those dungeon were added long before the expansion came out. Its not just about grinding for max level, its about progression.

There's a test for kids to observe this behavior, its called instant gratification. Guess you failed that

Kids this generation have grown used to instant gratification, even fucking TV commercials now last like 10 seconds because everyone has ADHD, for fuck's sake.

You're trying to do something and I'm not quite sure what it is because you're failing so horribly at it.
I'm not saying "oh I should instantly be max level" I'm saying "oh maybe I shouldn't have to grind through the entire old endgame complete with gear treadmills to be able to access the new content"

Yeah you're saying "I don't want to work towards something I just want the new shit to count and to be instantly let into it".
Hard work is a thing of the past, people think they can just jump in and get rich quick, it's a fucking modern disease.

Except that makes no sense. getting carried by people in the new gear is hard work? especially when locked behind timers.
It's just to force you to dump more money in.

Google "instant gratification". You probably too lazy to do it and expect me to spoonfeed you though

I understand you saw the word online and thought it sounded cool, but that in no way applies to this argument.

You're trying to do something but you just come out like an even lazier slob here.

really pisses me off that we went from this to pallet swapped EQ2: everything must have frills edition.

How so? you want to unlock content instantly instead of work on it.

There's an annoying story REQUIRED character literally named "meme desu" in FFXIV. They throw annoying memes in fucking everything. Gonna go fight ifrit? The quest's name is "Ifrit bleeds, you can kill it." Fighting shiva? Her theme song literally has "LET IT GOOOOOO" in the lyrics.

Fuck off reddit. Don't even get me started on the fact they removed body sliders for the butt and gimped the breast sliders cuz muh morals. XIV is undiluted garbage.

Damn you seem upset about your game's expansion design being shit.

So not only do you have to pay extra money for it, you have to spend about a month at the old level cap because of time gated gear lock.
How is this good design for newer players who bought it because the expansion.

It's just to exploit money from you, it's not an experience because all the fights are near nuetered by expansion players and gear. It's not "oh you just want instant gratification" because it's expecting something you paid for to be actually accessible as opposed to having to sit through a month of time locks which exist only for the purpose of being time locks.
And don't try to bring up "oh it's the story behind it though" it isn't the story went to hell and back once they just started throwing in literally every Final Fantasy character they could think of as a dungeon.

how is leveling up to 60 "instant"?

Reminder that the new Demon Hunter class has a 2 button rotation and a talent that can make it 1 button.

I don't even play it son.
You just seem like a 13 year old kid who grew up used to having everything handed to you, can't blame you though, all of the media and modern gaming does nothing but pander to that sort of people.

Seriously, are you fucking retarded? First of all, why would new players bought and expansion for a game they haven't cleared yet? Second of all, the expansion came out months after the last content update. What do you want? go straight to the final boss battles and skip the progression? fucking retard

When you get used to getting your fix instantly and having your way every time with no effort or hard work required you grow complacent.
The instant you face something that says 'NO' to you you fucking shit your pants and throw a tantrum, sadly the media has conditioned kids to 'instant gratification', it's all over the world now, even ads have adapted to it because the average attention span of the population is like a quarter of what it used to be.

you don't know what you're doing here do you.
I'm not saying "jump right to 60 and give endgame gear" I'm saying "don't make me sit at 50 for 2 months because you decided gear treadmills should be timelocked before I can see the new shit I paid for"
Lets look at FFXI because that was a fine example of unlocks. You have to do some old content once that's fine, you have to do some new quests in the old content to access the new content. Usually this content is over your level and can't be solo'd. That's fine because it encourages group play.
At no point in FFXI were you ever flat timelocked. Sure you missed a spawn that takes 24 hours to respawn that's your fault that's not the game devs going "NO YOU MUST SIT AND PAY US MORE FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF DOING THIS CONTENT YOU PURCHASED"

I don't know because it was marketed like that for the longest time? Expansions are used to attract new players and get old ones, and this completely excludes newer players. It's awful design for retaining new players. I'm not saying "oh boost them to 50 and do new content" I'm saying "don't make them sit on a gear treadmill for months waiting to be allowed to access new content"

You never reached relics it seems.
Or expansions, shit you had to work your ass off through the mission to unlock expansion areas.

considering it again, you might have played the game post-abyssea where everything was handed to you and easy as fuck.

Relics were fucking awful too, but those weren't required to access the new expansions

or motherfucking this

Abyssia wasn't required to see the new expansion content. Sure you'd be a bit undergeared but it was workable especially with how gear was in that game

FFXI didn't really suffer from gear threadmilling or item levels, but you still had to do missions to access expansion areas.
Fun stuff of course, I enjoy the sense of exploration, progress and danger the game provided far more than anything WoW ever offered.

Pity FXIV went the WoW route.

Play infantry Online if that's still around

Confirmed retard, expansion are made for existing players. Then again, why new players be upset when they havent even cleared the game you dumbass? Are you under the impression that level 50 character is a new players?

Yes but the new missions weren't "do the entirety of the old expansion" which is why that works

That expansion was the point where leveling jobs changed from a fucking odyssey to sitting afk for 2 hours though.
Everyone who played the game before that fucking hated the fuck out of it.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong and when they added… fuck what were those called. the NPCs you could summon. Those flat out 100% irrevocably killed the game

which is why you see a ton of new players when an expansion gets announced. Shit marketing even points them towards it.
Expansions make players think "oh I won't be too far behind" and little did they know Square in it's infinite wisdom decided "hey lets make the gap between new players and older ones even bigger"

Saying "oh lets make the game more inaccessible to new players" is poor design for MMOs or in general. There's a point between "give them everything" and "make them do this horrible gear treadmill that made us bleed players"

That makes goddamn sense you fucking dumbass, Why would a new player bought a fucking expansion for a game they never played before? its a fucking expansion, even if it did attract new players, do you want them to skip the main quest and straight to the expansion?

I wonder why peoples are leaving WoW then.

*no goddamn sense

I'm starting to catch your stupidity

People left WoW because there was nothing to do at endgame except:

Manage the Garrison
Do one Daily
Raid

Then 2 patches over two years one was nothing more than a selfie camera made it a joke.

Some people will come back for 7.0 but unless there is stuff for people to do until 7.1, they'll all leave.

Ever quest 99

is there a private server that lets me play Frogloks? literally the only thing from that series I ever cared about.

Except all those times during WoTG and ToAU and CoP where you had to wait until Japanese midnight to continue the questline.

Posts a literal "give me everything" game.
So… you proved my point?

So what do you have against FFXIV personally?

what now?

what? no WoW is a literal give me everything game.
You posted it like somehow that disproves my point that being forced to slog though old outdated content with the sole purpose of milking you for your sub fee is a good design choice

Hits too close to reality, now I'm even more depressed.

I was being sarcastic by the way, it's the worst way to handle an expansion I've seen

How long is the grind anyway?
2 months since level cap to get up to date?
If so that sounds somewhat reasonable for a MMO, seeing all the content is a big plus to me since WoW just threw everything they worked on every new raid which was the fucking worst way to handle development and expansions.
Expansions should EXPAND on the content, not deprecate it and throw it into the thrash like a used up whore.

It's 2 months at level 50 doing nothing but old dungeons because gear+time gated.
Not to mention the snails pace that new content comes out at because "hey instead of making content come out at a regular basis, lets instead just make it a weekly cap that you have to max out multiple times"

welp, I think I know what I'm gonna play this weekend.

There was a fair bit more to do than just that. Problem is, most of it wasn't new to WoD.

And the other stuff in WoD was pretty shit as well.

Say what you will about MoP, but it had more to do at level cap than most other points in WoW's history. WoD really dropped the ball in this regard.

On the upside, Blizz finally realized that aiming for yearly expansions was a shit idea.

when your game is built around other players providing the majority of the entertainment, you can be lazy and put in less work