Why doesn't anyone rip off the bethesda formula? Nobody has even made an attempt

I really don't see the point you're trying to make with the level comparison. How is Vault 21 that much of a mess?
The maps you're showing serve a vastly different purpose anyway. Vault 21 is a hotel, the other two are dungeons.

The Quest (mobile game) was a Daggerfall clone, so it has been done before.

OpenMW will be what you're after, Expect lots of clones once that engine becomes GPL. GPL will be fantastic and really stick it to Bethesda whom have since buying ID been strongly anti-GPL. Freedom of information and sharing is something that will frankly liberate the Bethesda community from the sheer narcissism and bullshit bullying that you see in communities like Nexus (I mean duh, Bethesda turned those communities into a bunch of Jews thanks to paid mods).

But yeah OpenMW will change everything and best of all because it is GPL Bethesda/Zenimax have no rights at all to it because its an engine that reads their game files rather than includes them. You still need to own Morrowind in order to play OpenMW but the scope of the project was to allow Total Conversions without any Bethesda art resources that would allow you to make original games. And actually sell them because its covered under GPL.

Good times ahead. I myself am Interested in developing, the irony of using Bethesda's own concepts against them would be hilarious.

It's nothing but confusing corridors with pointless dead ends. Here's another bad map design of NV.

When a hotel is more complicated than dungeons, that means your game design is bad

Isn't it possible to open the Fallout 4 .esm files in the editor that shipped with Morrowind?

I do admit Vault 21 can be confusing, but the dead ends are specifically part of the backstory, so I find them forgivable.. There's no real reason for the dead ends in that sewer, on the other hand, and that is poor level design.
Confusing is okay, especially for places like a sewer, but dead ends are a problem.

I seen even a lot of normalfags wanting another New Vegas. With OpenMW, Bethesdrones have to kill themselves to not admit that Bethesda is shit.

Why have we seen only one pokemon clone in 20 years?

People are scared about the rabid fanbase that would tear them a new asshole if they ever caught on.

Because if non-AAAAAAA publishers with tons of marketing "favours" want to make a sanbdox game with half the toys missing and the other half broken, fedex quests, shit writing and all that, they get ripped to shreds.

Never stopped bethesda from releasing their shit.

Hell there was just one like what you're describing shown at E3 a few days ago.

That's just empty fields with a few monsters and a bombable wall here and there. It's very uninteractive and nothing like bethesdashit.

I remember a few days ago we had a thread and some tard claiming that bethesda does world building well.
Good times.

It's not just dead ends. New Vegas also has a lot of confusing forkings and unmapped verticality.

Funny, that looks pretty much like Vault 34 in New Vegas.

That was me tbh. And one or two other anons probably.

Because bethesda's formula doesn't work for anyone else.
Any other developer who releases games that are even half as bugged as bethesda's gets shat on.

Funny considering that sounds exactly like bethesda shit

Excuse me, but recent beth games' got a shitload of random and non random enemy encounters.

well, bethesda formula is pretty much "release shit and let mods fix it" so my guess is most companies can't bother to make their games as moddable

I would laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

They are boring and shit.

Yes, people who don't agree with you are contrarians and bethesda has great world building skills.

Again, confusing isn't necessarily bad. When I explore a tunnel complex, I want to feel a little lost.
As for the verticality, that is a limitation in all of the Beth Fallouts. I've thought they needed to use a Daggerfall-style dungeon map since 3. It certainly isn't exclusive to NV, nor is it even most apparent there. 4 tends to have far more of a vertical element

It's absolutely pointless. People will deny everything good that involves Bethesda, they've been burned too badly.

You're right, but you share the board with fags.

I love New Vegas though.

I've thought about this before.
To make a Bethesda-like game, you need a lot of people and a lot of time. which means a fuckton of money. The only developers who can get that kind of cash are AAA studios. And I don't think the publishers who fund them are willing to take the risk of trying to compete with Bethesda, since Bethesda basically has a monopoly on this kind of open-world game.
I hope that changes. Each Bethesda game has been more dumbed down than the last. Some competition would be good.

It's funny when you name the worst level design and use it as a example. Yes vault 21 is fucking confusing, i got trapped there more than i can count, but those sewers aren't bad. It's actively encouraging you to explore and focus on your surrounding, not like bethesda's FO3 where you just follow the arrow on your HUD. I like that in New Vegas.

I'm playing FO4 now, and Boston is a fucking mess. Not to mention their maps are completely atrocious. When you press local map you can see about 20 meters ahead of you and it's useless because 20 meter is about one small building. So you are dependent on your world map, but you can't see the corridors or walls.

Discussion involves more than repeating your retarded rhetoric to ignore legitimate grievances.

Bethesda games having good world building hasn't been the case since the first TES game and they continue that trend till fallout 3(Haven't played fallout 4)

Such as?

There is someting which really bothers me:

The Far Habor DLC was actually good and "New Vegas like". WTF? Was some third party involved? That shit couldn't be done by Beth jews.

Shit feels like Shivering Isles over again!

If someone made a Pc exclusive ripping of bethesda fallout it would blow it the fuck out pretty hard

BLOW THE FUCK OUT

I was in that thread, the only argument that people were saying was just repeating what the guy they were quoting said in greentext.
It's absolutely fucking pointless to even try to explain or make an argument because it will always end like that.

Maps. That's it.
Although I kinda liked nuDoom.

Elaborate.

There's a substantial difference between "rip off a formula" and "reimplement an engine"

It's the layout of literally every dungeon in Skyrim.

What exactly is good about their maps?
For reference Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion all have badly designed "quantity over quality" dungeons and the map in Fallout 3 are full of invisible walls and subway tunnels which are the same.

The locations are inventive, making you want to see more of the world. They know how to take the interesting part of the Fallout lore our by adding a lot of small details to locations.

Unfortunately most of these don't really make sense, Little Lamplight is an example, but that doesn't mean they're not interesting locations.

Bringing back Harold, making him a tree for no reason, it's honestly something I would've never thought about.

There's a lot of beautiful locations in Bethesda games, if only they could actually support them with some better lore they would be unparalleled in world building.

If you think there's only one pokemon clone you haven't been paying attention

Please gimme more, I'd love to play them

Me too. NV is my favorite FO game.

But Fallout 3 was well aware of this and didn't try to make an interior map that makes really complicated use of verticality.

The walls look all the same.

Yeah the UI is atrocious in that game. The level design is fine though.

Skyrim's design is shit, beth's worst next to oblivion. FO is more fleshed out.

Little Lamplight wants me to blow my brains out, not see more of the world
They don't know shit about Fallout lore or TES lore, they use wikis to read what "their" games are about.
That doesn't make it good

Shin megami tensei and it's rip offs such as demonmeister chris are pretty much pokemon+wizardry clones. There was a gay ass looking greenlight game on steam that copies pokemon too, but I don't remember the name..

SMT is nothing like pokemon
Have you even played it?

Never. Not a big fan of WRPG. But I know that you catch and control animals and such in that game. Or was it demons?

SMT predates Pokemon by 12 years.

I don't know what to tell you user, these are your personal opinions and not objective statements.

I'm not even gonna try to discuss this with you as I don't want to spend the next 5 hours talking about how Bethesda is the devil without having any chance to change your opinion.

There's a reason people spend their time in bethesda games just going around the map to see more.

Have fun.

Shin Megami Tensei is nothing like pokemon and it's a terrible fucking game user.

Try tenpenny towers.

If your only argument for bethesda world building being good is "it's subjective" then you might as well go "it's fun" and call it a day.

The only discussion we can have with you is how shit your taste is.

Weird view of interesting. A big reason that people liked fallout was the logical progression of events both on the micro and macro scale. Fallout 3's idea of interesting events is of the mien of the pop-culture references in Fallout 2, but more obnoxious simply because they're referencing themselves.

Same here. Interesting in a hypothetical sense only, like "imagine a world made of cake!", then the logistics kick in, and you realize that the novelty is skin-deep. A simple example would be comparing Harold with Marcus.

TES exists. Guess what happened?

I didn't say it's subjective, I said they have legitimately interesting locations.
I gave an explanation as to why that is.

You responded to me telling me that it makes you want to blow your brains out. How am I supposed to respond to that? That's not an argument, that's just the typical Holla Forums poster responding to something he doesn't agree with.

And if I asked you why your response would be "because it doesn't make sense with the lore". Then I would say that the lore is shit, but it doesn't make the map less interesting.

And then you'd keep going telling me that the lore is shit and so are all the locations.

I just had the conversations we would've had for the next hour. There's no need to thank me. I already know discussing this shit is completely pointless. I'm going to actually leave the thread now, I am not going to get into this again.

I don't know about world building, but the level design of beth fallout is pretty good. It's structured, like Doom.

That's subjective and I gave a conunter-point: little lamplight.

Not even compared to RPGs from 90s.

I was thinking of pic related as well as the Dragon Quest Monsters series. Maybe not clones per se, but comparable in a big way. I'm sure there's more though. While it's unlikely that many clones exist on nintendo's own consoles, I'd guess that there are many fan made options.

Come back, I know you want to get the high score.

probably the sheer amount of assets you would need.

honestly this feels like the actual factor that is keeping smaller studios from making larger games, making games is a fuckload of work and ive seen many people claim that assets are like 90% of that work.

Imagine if someone were to not give a flying fuck about Intellectual Property, and just stole assets from everywhere, im sure they could shave a huge amount of work/cost off of a big project like an open world "RPG", and they could focus on more important things like gameplay/atmosphere/story etc.

all these capable people are probably spending most of their time designing clutter and the millionth assault rifle

Isn't it 215?

Thats not true at all. Hell even if it was Doom and Fallout 3 play completely differently and have completely different design philosophies. An RPG having the same level design as Doom is not a good thing because the levels in Doom are not internally consistent locations that are "realistic". They are shooter levels first and anything else second.

You didn't.
You called the locations inventive(arguable but fair enough) and said something completely subjective followed by a factually false statement you contradict one statement later.

I don't remember. Ask Mark.
MAAAAAAAAAAARK

Competition implies that they would have a fighting chance. If another company makes a TES clone, Bethesda would be screwed. Look at New Vegas. People won't shut up about that game and it was made in a year.

People won't shut up about the first 2 Thief games either, when the second game made LGS declare bankruptcy.

wrong neighborhood fam

Fallout 3-4 are shooter games though.

New Vegas won't happen again because Avellone has left obsidian and moved to bethesda.

From a company that wastes more on marketing than NWC did on all of their games combined. Not a good defence.

I thought he was working for Larian now.

And he was going to trash the entire setting by having tunnellers from the Ulysses DLC slaughter everything in the Mojave. The meat of the game's writing (and generally the good parts in the DLC) came from Gonzalez.

OpenMW is going to move those autistic modders to somewhere their talents won't go to waste.
It has been proven that modders > Bethesda.

Thread is still up.

I'd generally agree, but a lot of what the modders can do is limited (or enabled, depending on your perspective) on what the devs let them do eg. the civil war questlines in Skyrim. Also, the biggest problems with modding is that a) it's in the extremely long term and b)C&Ds (think project Vaulderie, or that MGS2 fan remake).

OpenMW is not a mod. It is a open source reversed-engineered version of Morrowind's engine.

I know, I've been waiting quite a long time for it to be feature complete. But my point still stands - Morrowind was released in 02 and we're only getting OpenMW now. Secondly, take a look at their lead time -
OpenMW-0.35.1-win32.exe 12-Mar-2015 20:59 29M
OpenMW-0.35.1-win64.exe 12-Mar-2015 21:33 32M
OpenMW-0.36.0-win32.exe 23-May-2015 17:18 29M
OpenMW-0.36.0-win64.exe 23-May-2015 17:49 32M
OpenMW-0.37.0-win32.exe 26-Nov-2015 20:52 27M
OpenMW-0.37.0-win64.exe 26-Nov-2015 21:09 30M
OpenMW-0.38.0-win32.exe 19-Jan-2016 16:47 28M
OpenMW-0.38.0-win64.exe 19-Jan-2016 17:04 31M

That isn't a model of reliability, and the only reason it's gotten this far is because of sheer autism.

Why not make a new game instead o fwasting your life on copying other people's creation for free?

As with all fan projects. Nothing new here.

But it is closest thing that I can get to stabbing Bethesda in the face. Besides, it recently updated and was shown to handle multiplayer.

On one hand, I want to argue that just stealing your art assets from other games would destroy any hope of games having unique art direction any more, and things already all look too similar these days if you ask me.

On the other hand, even with all games making their own stuff, they still pretty much go for the same generic near-realism, so the problem exists regardless. So why not save time on the way to everything looking the same?

To add, OpenMW isnt just for Morrowind, it's also made so you can make completly new games from scratch. It's basically it's own thing.

I wouldnt be surprised if some one ported of New Vegas to it, it is possible to do.

...

Oh, the biggest problem is as mentioned. Anything I made would be mechanically sound, but unable to differentiate itself against the countless competitors - a lot of which are made by people far more talented than me. Secondly, I don't have the capital to do marketing right or hire the guys do do asset creation, and the only shot of my work being rewarded is being 'memed' to popularity. That isn't very reliable either.

But to answer your question more appropriately, modding communities originate alongside popular games, and fans of those games are willing to put in a lot more effort 'copying other people's creation for free' than making their own.

I suppose we'll see.

But why? Are they autistic?

Yes.

most developers have a semblance of respect for themselves

I advise taking a hard look at pic related.

Imagine hundred of modders making a free game just to hurt Bethesda.

As long as Todd would be fine, I'm okay with it.

I'd call it pipe dreams, but this exists.

I seen that image in a stream of someone defending EA.

why

Witcher 3 was pretty much a love letter to Todd with a PS. btfo in competency.

Yep, GG stream of a AAA dev. Barring his loyalty to a soulless business entity, he did explain this shit very well.

It's cel-shaded (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cel_shading). I'd say the dude was trying to keep in tune with the aesthetic of 80-90's cyberpunk.

...

cgi enhanced practical effects >>>> cell shitting

Its funny how each installment of EO and FO, people makes mods to move that shit out of the game to increase the performance and reduce asset bloat. Since Oblivion and FO3.
The big score of AAA is that they can fund a ton of money on marketing.
You would imagine that with this much money Bethesda would actually fix their engine implementation or use another one, since it can generate a ton of cash per game.

And that's not how retro cyberpunk sound like.

This was at GG's "Muh PR" phase. I'm going a lot of those ethical game journalists sites because they are still shit.
CyborgShill is hard to listen to.

I'm not sure what the intended message there is, but I guess it's that the reason all games going for the same generic realism is cheaper and more reliable?

If so, sure, I get why that makes sense to producers. From my consumer perspective though, there's way more than enough games out there, just not enough that are what I personally want to see. I'd gladly wait longer for less games if it meant they finally had interesting art direction again when they did come out. I'd gladly trade ten or even twenty "meh" looking games for just one that's exactly my stylistic cup of tea. And I'd finally actually buy a game at full launch price again too, so in that regard it would result in more money. With no games to get excited about, I just wait for them to get old and cheap and publishers hate that.

How the fuck are those two even connected, you sperg? One is special effects and another is a fucking shader.

Because it's not a good formula.

Bethesda makes you think you're getting a massive Lego kit that you can make tons of stuff out of, but when you open the box, you find that everything is already assembled and superglued together. You can still have some fun with it, but it's not exactly what they advertised when they gave you the "Go anywhere, do anything, make your own character" speech.

FO3 and FO4 especially have the problem of creating a thin illusion of choice. They make you think your stats and choices matter, but there's only ever 2 or 3 instances where an incredibly specific and focused build makes a difference… Otherwise, you're just walking around and shooting, and since the gameplay is ONLY combat, you end up putting points into combat skills anyways, because the game is unplayable if you don't.

What someone should do is try to rip off the intent of the Bethesda games, and not the execution.

I was talking about anime rather than movies. All them blockbusters would seem to disagree with you, though

You're not the one paying money for this shit - publishers move where the money goes. Regardless, creativity is hard if all your staff are treated as disposable and keep getting laid off in favor of the next batch of starry-eyed, low-paid graduates. Also, I'd attribute some of this to concept art always looking better.

i'm not sure i get your point, those are stable versions. the things that determine when there will be the next stable release are variable, its not gonna be like clockwork. they make good progress for working on it in their spare time for free.
feature complete in this case means supporting things the original engine never supported. i was surprised that they plan to do that at all. development would only go quicker if they had more dedicated developers, more resources, and more time to work on it themselves.

right now the engine can be used to play through Morrowind from what i understand, maybe there will be bugs but the original engine had some pretty funky bugs as well.
in any case a lot of mods worked for me when i last tried it

Forgot to add, Ubisoft is trying to mitigate this with their fuckhuge Montreal studio where they make the majority of devs simply do asset creation. Another good example would be Bloodborne, and how having Sony Japan do asset creation removed the majority of the heavy lifting off FROM and allowed them to not rely on reused assets.

I think that's what most people here have in mind.

...

you're not wrong, but stating the obvious doesn't win you any points. and it doesn't magically exempt you from explaining your opinion. they're not all of equal value.

exactly. when you have nothing to say, the best policy is to shut the fuck up.

Games like Morrowind and New Vegas are good examples.
Open-world, systems-driven, lots of items to pick up and interact with, no level scaling, you can kill any NPC, you can make choices that are bad in the long-term, etc.

Fuck, imagine Skyrim or Fallout 4 running in OpenMW. That would be a giant slap in the face for Bethesda. Their newest masterpieces running on an open source remake of their ancient game.

Does anyone have that image of a list of quotes from Todd (for either FO4 or Skyrim, I forget) that had either a red or green box for whether it was true or not?

Can't let those trips down.

pastebin.com/fVQ6p2bn

Do you believe people add a single feature to software and then just recompile everything and ship it every time just for you to see it on the page? It doesn't work like that.
github.com/OpenMW/openmw/commits/master
Here you can see that actual progress is being made day after day.

Have to give it to the Zelda club, as they've yet to learn from prerelease hype. Absolute stuttering boy fuckers.

The same way we don't see Sims clones today.

The closest I can think of is the Ultima series. As for why no one else is making them these days I think it's about companies doing what they know, pretty much only Bethesda have kept doing thee systems based RPGs while the rest of the industry has gone for a more cinematic and less interactive approach. Bethesda has kept making them since Arena.

The no loading times OpenMW has already gave a massive slap to Bethesda's jewish face.

I really liked this with the hit squads the NCR and Legion send, but I feel like they weren't quite done enough. You just occasionally get hit by a bunch of super-troopers with awesome guns to steal after you travel somewhere. I feel like they should have had more impact on quests so there could be more unique assassination attempts.

Fallout 3 and 4 are very ugly games. TES please me though.

user, you are very far from the truth. They're JRPGs as well.

T H I S

Remember when the series used to be about war with pop culture references and not visiting wacky theme parks while attempting to be blade runner

Nobody else can match the Authentic Bethesda Experience, user.

This was the majority of FO3. For every so called well crafted dungeon, I felt like I had little to no reward. FWE fixes some of the issues but the quests are still shit. This is where FO1,2 and NV excel. My personal least favorite dungeons are the scripted vaults. Playing through them once is fine. And then each other time it's the same script and it gets obnoxious. It doesn't help that they're designed very very similarly, giving no interesting incentive to exploring them. And with the lack of choice of what you can do in them, they're very boring dungeons. Morrowind had a hit and miss mixture of dungeons but the more well designed ones let you use levitate scrolls, go underwater, go around to reach your enemies. That is enough flavor to make them more interesting, even if their looks were similar. You don't get that kind of distraction with FO3. Heck, if you look at FO2 dungeons, they have toxic waste, odd enemies, very large sections with lots of tunnels. It's some sort of diversion from the formula. And they usually had better rewards for them as well. Another example of something doing the dungeon thing well is AWOP for NV. Dungeons give unique weapons and a lot more interesting loot. Where is that in the so called well designed levels of FO3?

You're trolling right? Are you also going to praise Bioshock Infinite for it's streamlined maps compared to Bioshock 1's "confusing and mazelike" maps?

They're nearly at Version 1.0, with v0.40 nearly ready. Only OpenCS takes some time it appears.

Besides, Morrowind (vanilla and general mods) is already perfectly playable on OpenMW.

All in all it shouldn't take too long until its ready, after which we'll start to see the team implement a whole lot of more features as well as other god-tier anons doing incredible work on it.

Meanwhile, Halo's CMT project is releasing in less than two weeks, slapping 343 in the face.

All in all it's a good time to be a shitlord modder/coder.

FO2 was a travesty. FO1 and NV are the best Fallouts.

But yeah, Bethesda's main problem, outside of being shit developers that can't make a good game, is that they are unable to grasp what Fallout and TES are supposed to be about. Think about it, this is a developer so shit they miss the point of their own, in-house, IP.

To the Toddler Fallout is a retro sci-fi theme park with edgy humor about the post apocalypse, where they then proceed to cram their usual "you can climb that mountain" bullshit, on top of proving they can dumb the game even further, so even a retarded child can manage to complete it.

I had a talk with another user that was, until recently, a Beth drone (going so far as to buy FO3 multiple times) and asked him what drew him to Bethesda shit. He basically said that it was the "go anywhere" gameplay and the fact he had only played shit like Call of Duty and Gears of War, so he thought the open world and "RPG" mechanics were revolutionary.

Then again, there is some rays of hope. Even the drones did not like FO4 all that much.

While that chart has some valid points, taking this advice in this industry is basically admitting that you don't plan on making good games.

It is better not to reply to him.

The maker of FO1 considered pop-culture references a big part of Fallout due it being a spiritual successor to Wasteland.
Hope for what? Fallout is dead. OpenMW is the true salvation because it basically making an open source Bethesda engine.

They also thought Vaults being social experiments was a good idea because they were watching X-Files at the time.

FO2 was shit in regards to lore.

That people will start calling Bethesda out on their shit.

It allows for some interesting ideas.

People will forget by the time TES6 comes out.

Buy Fallout 4.

...

Dude, Bioshock 1's map is even more straightforward than FO3.

Wasn't Borderlands a fairly close attempt at the Bethesda formula except with even less RPG and instead more shooty-shooty-bangbang and MMO-mechanics?

Please tell me there is a fucking archive of that thread because that is some god tier oc.

I feel the same way about Bioware games. I used to think I was a fan of Bioware (until they became so fucking terrible even the most hardcore Biodrones couldn't fail to notice anymore), but looking back…I was more a fan of the format. That is to say: open ended RPG with sidequests, a home base and a party you can talk to (and sometimes bang). Certainly not an open world, but with a certain amount of freedom.

I wish more people would take that formula. More competent people.

Todd, how E3?