TF2 thread

I imagine your balance issues would stem from the myriad alternative weapons that muddy or exaggerate certain class roles since off the very top of my head with taking only stock weapons into account live TF2's got way fewer issues than launch.

Or some hats that'd prove you were a crafty bastard like when people discovered the Bonk Helm was a thing, I really fucking miss that drag-and-drop craft/trade UI and non-obvious crafting recipes. The change to a drop-down list to take any guesswork out of it sapped all the fun out of it.

Just sitting here and waiting for match making and more MvM missions.

Weapon balances would be nice too.

Got a bunch of friends telling me how great Overwatch is and how it is totally not like TF2. Spoiler; Overwatch is TF2. 8 years I had to play healer because no one else wants to, same shit in Overwatch, friends just want me to heal their fat asses.

I think friends are just bored of the same maps, but suggesting playing a custom map from the workshop and they all throw their hands up in the air as if it is that is too much work to hit the subscribe button and make a lobby. Fuck you guys, I tried.

TF2 is solid, player base may be shaky (playing with friends as always is the solution) but the weapons and classes are well rounded.

Hopefully with match making, more fun can be had.

inb4 HATS RUINED EVERYTHING
teamfortress.tv/16179/no-hats-mod

inb4 GOLDEN WEAPONS RUNINED EVERYTHING
-dx8

My nigga, the sheer performance boost alone was enough to tide me over to DX8 (I can run similar framerates as I could on DX9 at a much higher resolution) but not having to look at attention-whore weapon skins and gold weapons being more simple-looking was great.

If it turns out there's a bigass optimization patch for matchmaking or whatever the next update will be then I'm already half-erect from how highly it'll impact DX8.

Alternate weapons are the major gripe, yes.
While a lot of fixes to the base game were needed, some of the changes to it were pretty bad IMO.

Hauling is often hailed for being necessary but I feel like it made severely reduced the focus on optimal building placement for Engineers on defense and made being an offensive Engineer being far too viable. Being able to build a lvl 3 sentry in safety, walking it to the battlefront behind your teammates, then plopping it down quickly is a severe change in the balance of fights and makes offensive pushes much more stronger.

Airblasts, even without the retarded +20 hp on extinguish, really shifts focus of Pyro's combat proficiency. Before it's introduction, Pyro was meant to be a very QCQ-oriented class, but by adding an airblast, you give him the ability to contest characters that do great in mid-range like Demo and Soldier without even needing to rely on his shotgun. The ability to push players is also pretty dumb as it's an uncontrollable movement modifier in an FPS, unlike explosive blasts that can be countered with air-strafing, which is a big no-no.

Overwatch plays a lot more like a moba than tf2 does. Neither of your inb4s are the reason tf2 went to shit

Hauling's been more of a major convenience for me than a major offensive tool since usually people are smart enough to shift priorities to the fat fuck trying to set up a level 3, there's typically enough time between it being deployed and being useable that it ends up crippled or destroyed outright even with whacking it with a Jag to go up at Sanic speeds. I imagine it'd take a better Engi than I to be shifty enough to get a level 3 up without making him and his building an instant priority before it could even go up, I'd probably sooner build and haul a dispenser for high-speed support.

Airblast I've always been pretty iffy about since I adore it for giving Pyro a mild support role through extinguishing (the self-heal on extinguish they added to encourage it is fucking stupid though) and I'm a fan of being able to reflect projectiles if you're quick enough off the mark but in the same stroke I've got the same problem with it being a mobility modifier that you do, if it were handled more like a very light and non-damaging explosion (more or less meaning you can air-strafe to counteract it) than "nope you can barely move lol" I wouldn't mind it so much.

Hauling is such a massive increase to the Engineer's skill ceiling that it's hard to imagine anyone seriously wanting it removed. It would be like patching out rocketjumping.

Pyro just needs a compete rework from scratch, to be honest. Maybe give him the cannon he had in TFC.

I'd argue the opposite - it severely reduces the skill floor and makes building placement a non-issue, where previously putting your building in optimal locations was a significant facet to engineer's play. It also makes playing a more aggressive engineer far more easy, as you can more easily move your nests and buildings forward as the battles advance, which shouldn't be the case for an almost exclusively based on defense. I don't see any way it's addition raises the potential skill for playing an engineer and doesn't just make playing one easier.

It plays in no way like a Moba. The different characters are far less like MOBA heros (where you pick one and it determines your role during the game) and only aesthetically similar. They are far more akin to loadouts since you can (and are meant) to change anytime during a match at respawn. There would be no difference (other than aesthetics) if they just changed every character in OW to the same person and had them change equipment between the different choices. Mechanically there is no difference.

There is no other similarity to a moba in anyway. There are no items, lanes, levels, progression, etc.

The game is basically TF2.

It still is an issue, just less of one since you don't have to completely scrap your building to place it somewhere else. A sentry in a shitty position's still a sentry in a shitty position.

I'll agree that it took a fair bit of risk through getting it right the first time out of Engineer's playstyle since moving a sentry no longer takes a few minutes of total defenselessness to move it and get it back up to level 3 (assuming no spies or explosives classes interfere) but where to put your shit is still a question you should be asking a lot as Engineer.

a lot of people shit on the loadouts, but i appreciate them being there just to try something gimmicky and stupid if i want to challenge myself or if i am simply bored.
bullying snipers is never as fun as in tf2.

i dont know where people get the idea that pyro had any sort of role before airblast. became a thing.
i dont think you even played the game back then

Amen to that, I love harassing snipers as a demoman through divebomb sticky-jumps and meleeing them to punish them for their tunnel vision. Some of 'em are even smart enough to start looking up and scan the sky if they hear a distant boom but most aren't.

Used to roll the caber + stickyjumper for that but ever since the caber was nerfed I've defaulted to skullcutter instead. I honestly doubt that snipers upset they were being divebombed wasn't the reason since caber's competitive applications were limited at best (being that you'd heavily cripple yourself by successfully using it even if you managed to take out the medic or whatever it is you're doing and since you might launch yourself straight into the air you're a sitting duck or you might succumb to fall damage) and I only ever saw people use it for sniper harassment.

True, the decision making that goes into your placement carries far, far less weight since it can be so easily corrected. Which is why I have such hard time believing that it did anything to raise the skill ceiling.

He had his roles (CQC, ambush, area denial), the problem was he was never effective most of them so he never had impact. They tried (and failed) to fix this with the original Pyro update with weapons like Axtinguisher and Backburner but since then they've just distracted from his role with subsequent updates and weapons.

Damn I want to get that no hats mod to make it run faster, but I like my cosmetics too much

They really need to just buff afterburn in some way, it feels useless

...

i dont think moving buildings was meant to raise the engineers skill ceiling, but simply to give him more options and reduce frustration since it could be pretty easy to deal with an engineer unless they were in some perfect position, and even then they are at the very least predictable

how would you like to have seen pyro handled to excel at his role? i didnt mind them turning him into the tool man, there may have been better options but it opened up interesting interactions such as being able to delay a standard ubercharge without dedicating your own medic to doing so.

i remember hearing something about stacking immolation from different weapons in team fortress forever.
there were 3 levels of burning, but i cant remember what he had besides a flame thrower and napalm grenades that would be able to ignite someone.

I hate the fuckin contributors for making so many items all-class

My biggest problem with the game is what the community has turned into. I'm no oldfag by any means, as I started playing in early 2011, but I did have my first highlander experience that year. Its hard to find community servers that just want to play the game and aren't running ten kinds of shitty or class pandering mod any more. I last booted the game up a week ago and tried scrolling down the server browser. It ended up being a mix of trade servers, horsefucker servers, and slenderman servers. Going to pub servers mostly yields a bunch of mexicans wanting to show off their newest hat with maybe one or two meme spouting retards domming them. I've been successfully votebanned from countless pub servers because some congaing retard decided to walk in a crossfire and get killed by me. Back years ago it was kind of the opposite. Trade servers were niche and were also the only place that cared about hats and shitposting all that much. An older TF2 playerbase than this one wasn't afraid of being offensive either. I've seen people votebanned for saying nigger a few times. I don't mind the contract campaigns so much, as I usually make a 20 dollar profit just selling the crap I get each time. Tbh I'm only ever on anymore when those come out to profit off of them. The most worrying relatively new features are the addition of integrated CSGO 'competitive' and all the shitty balance patches. Things mostly went downhill when they removed the TF2 beta for testing weapons / shoving untested weapons straight into the game via promotion, but the patches for the past year have had a vandetta against heavy and demo. Been a heavy main since I started and I hate to see how my already progressively less fun class with a tiny arsenal keeps getting fucked.

Vulvo nerfed all non-stock weapon like a half-year ago. I dont know why people complaining.

Tell me about the Russians: Why are they always playing Mario Kart?

Have no idea. this is most boring map (after minecraft trade servers).

t.russian

They shit on all the fun weapons in that Christmas update and destroyed what little Pyro had. Tough Break was terrible.

Fun and balance is a different thing.
You talking about Axtinguisher? this shit gives you to much close range damage and make all another pyro weapon useless. While game still have Third Degree here no a single reason use stock.

i havent played in like a year, i gotta check that out next time my day is going too well.

Hoh, like you wouldn't go with powerjack or home wrecker anyways.

No, the Degreaser and Phlogistinator. Now the most effective flamethrower is the stock, and the stock being terrible was the whole reason everyone used those two.

Axtinguisher was inferior to Powerjack even pre-nerf. Now it's literally useless; you can do more than 195 damage just with the flamethrower in the time it takes to draw the thing. The Degreaser's global switch speed was absolutely necessary for the Pyro to be viable for anything but spychecking, but now it's not global. It only really works for switching to the Reserve Shooter now, and the Reserve Shooter has been cancer pre-and-post balance changes.

The +20 HP on airblast exinguish shows that valve just really doesn't know what to do with the Pyro. It's a buff to Pyro that only works if there's enemy Pyros on the field. What if they're not running Pyro because it's a shit class? What then?

Oh, right, I forgot. The Axtinguisher does -33% global damage now, so it takes 1.17 seconds to draw and does 131 damage. The stock Flamethrower does 163 DPS, so in 1.17 seconds it'll do 190.71 particle damage + 2 * 6 afterburn ticks for 202 total damage.

The Axtinguisher is literally useless.

wow they really took a shit on that axtinguisher, was it that big a problem?

Maybe i'm a faggot i've been playing the game since release but i think the game was better around the first class updates and never anything after that.

Everyone had a single or maybe two sets of weapons to play with, and that was it. Once everyone started getting 500 different weapons that just fucked with how everything played it was like fuck this shit

like, i'm talking when there was only stuff like the L&L, Nastasha, Blutsauger, Ubersaw, Kritz, Sandvitch, KBG, Eyelander, Backburner, axtinguisher, the likes. All the achievement weapons and stuff and when it was limited to that.

The game felt better then, and the weapons all had their own niche little uses but for the most part people played stalk with the occasional poke for those weapons

have they made loose cannon viable again or is it still the biggest primary downgrade you can use?

Degreaser lost fast switch time, after burn damage and increased Gas cost.
Really OP thing now. Phlog/med chain are now stronger then heavy/med. You can just disintegrate in 0.1 sec enemy pyro preventing to "broke" chain with med.

Literally they should back old TFC pyro with fireclaster bombs.

They back real crits instead mini-crits, but yes axtinguisher are useless now.

im more out of the loop than i think

TFC Pyro's flamethrower was worthless but his cannon and napalm nades were nice

...

The Axtinguisher could effectively oneshot every non-overhealed class but a Heavy, and the Heavy died with 1 additional second of flamethrower or one additional Axtinguisher hit. The solution to this was to not get into melee range with a Pyro, but that's just too hard for scrubs.

The initial Axtinguisher nerf was part of a patch that also nerfed Demo stickies damage and spun-up but not shooting heavies. You know, things bad players don't use and have hard times dealiing with. It's not that the Axtingusher was overpowered, it's that it was too hard for idiots to use and too hard for idiots to counter. It got nerfed into irrelevance because TF2 is designed for Valve servers now.

It's still in the pile with the Claidheam Mor and the rest of the Tide Turner kit as a victim of Tough Break.

The Phlog is ONLY useful if you have a medic now that it doesn't heal, and what sensible medic is going to pocket a pyro who can't even airblast? Not to mention it takes longer to charge now.

Having more options isn't necessarily a good thing. If they aren't are properly balanced and designed, you inherently reduce the value to each individual option by having more of them. This is also a primary criticism I have for the alt weapons - having so many options, often all underdeveloped and not properly balanced to work well with each other just makes makes things muddied and unfocused.
This is a problem that mostly arises due to quality of map design, which is a major factor in the balance of classes. If there the maps are designed so that few locations can serve as effective nest locations, then it's not designed well with Engineers in mind. When you have multiple good spots to place sentries (based on composition of enemy team and what they can handle), you have a mix-up scenario where the enemy team has to adapt by switching up their team composition and the engineer counters by rebuilding in a different position. With hauling, the Engineer has much less commitment to their building placement, making it much easier for them to adapt to enemy team changes.
Hard to say. Make the flamethrower much less pathetic - less falloff damage, maybe a base damage buff, and maybe the crits/mini-crits from behind like backburner so that flanking is a good option for the Pyro.

It's not about individual weapon balance, but how loadouts work together. As it stands, there are plenty of loadouts that stand head and shoulders above others, and a lot more loadouts that are useless. There's also the issue of loadouts that completely change class abilities and their functions, further muddying class composition.

Did they add new engie buildings yet? New spy watches beyond cloak&donothingallround and scrub ringer? Miniguns that aren't a straight downgrade? Sniper secondary that's an actual weapon and not retarded piss memes?

1) No.
2) No.
3) Nope.
4) If we're not counting the razorback, danger shield and the carbine (which is garbage), no.

You mean besides minis? Nope. No new spy watches either. All the Heavy miniguns got rebalanced; Tomislav is top-tier, everything else is at least half-decent now. Snipers got a mini-crits-on-kill SMG with reduced damage that nobody actually uses.

what did they triple it's damage or what? that shit used to be completely unusable

They are back crits.

General issue with axtinguisher is a degreaser combo. Before love&war update pyro can kill anyone even under overheal. Degreaser *puff* flames -> Crit flare -> axtinguisher Crit - heavy ded in 2 sec.

They trying nerf weapon switch time - pyro still manage instakill in close range. They nerf axtinguisher -pyro dont instakill but in same time useless and lose any reason not using powerjack. Next step they nerf powerjack and change whole "increased taking damage while wearing" weapon making its active only while deploying weapon. Pyro still shit, but compression blast makes him viable pin you to the wall and just "wank" before you die.
AND EUREKA - the nerf compression blast and give you air control while being in air, so pyro cant pin you in air. AND now they tring to back pyro to "not useless" stage in damage dealing role.

+20% accuracy

No seriously, it's actually pretty good now. On par-with the Minigun, at least.

Just fix this shit and I'll give tf2 another chance.
Fuck every soldier using blackbox-conch-katana.

Fuck this shit too, now airblast can't knock people off ledges unless they're total shitters, meaning it's only useful for deflecting and extinguishing.

To expand on this, the 20% additional accuracy increases the Heavy's engagement range. Combined with the increased deployment speed, this gives the Heavy a lot of additional flexibility, something he's sorely lacking. You're essentially trading close-range combat power for more mobility and more mid-range combat power. You also use less ammo, which can be useful for holding positions longer.

Also you're a lot more likely to deal 10 damage/tick at max range instead of 5, which can be hard for lighter classes that aren't sniper to deal with.

I dont like how many of the new maps are so standard and spìrit lacking… see for example, and compare it to borneo and most competitive cp maps (snakewater, and specially process. God process is ugly)

Blame the big sellers for that.
Slip in a thousand dollars to a contributer, buy an ass ton of the hats on the market and then when they become all-class, resell for 10x their initial price,
I'm just glad that the people who tried this with the Safe and Sound got screwed,

The first airblast prevents control, if you keep them airblasted then they can move after the second.
Sure it sucks but what you can do is juggle people with the scorch shot and airblast as the scorch shot resets the movement thing meaning you can keep people in the air.
Alternatively, just airblast as soon as they touch the floor to reset the counter.

What about snowplow map?

Why the fuck did they do that? They only look good (and make sense) on scout.

huh, I had never seen that map. I didnt play tf when end of the line was released, but I googled it and it looks better. It's still a red barn/bule barn map but it looks prettier

They're just halloween reskins of the normal maps but the Invasion maps look pretty cool

The game runs like complete ass even on stock/no hats serbs.
All of that content they added on through the years isn't properly packed in with core materials, and is loaded separately, which makes a decade-old game as processing-hungry as a recent release.

user, what your favourite gmod/SFM animators?

Winglet is pretty fucking good
But my all time favourite goes to Kitty0706

i am not hard to entertain

demoknight is piss easy what more do you want?

Anyone else remember that shitty halloween event with the trade server tier old boss spam with absolutely nothing new or interesting added? It feels like terrible updates where valve sits on their ass and picks highly rated shit community made content is all we're going to get now. Having dabbled in mapping before I lost hope in the game, I see a lot of glaring mapping mistakes when new shit comes out and it hurts.

You mean the skeleton one? That was pure dogshit

The hightower_event one? That was trash

The one that no shit had the header " Help mann the manly ghost get to hell ". Worst fucking thing I've ever played.

pl_millstone_event? yeah that was garbage, a gigantic clusterfuck

...

whats the matter, not racy enough for you ya bojo?

...

Doctor Lalve's a great one and pretty clearly inspired by kitty0706, his class-guide videos are legitimately better ways to get a handle on the class than the ones on the fucking Steam Community

...

To be honest, I only started hating TF2 when, as a Scout, I had way too many fucking OHKO's to deal with.
Between the DemoKnights and the direct-hit, and the huntsman, on top of all the crits that were already there to begin with.. playing the class started to get way too annoying.

Damn, good staff.

Fucking this. I miss when I could go on huge streaks as Demoknight, topping the scoreboards and causing rage. Now it's just a chore to play it and still remain an effective member of your team.

Why.

I'd rather they just remove it entirely.

TF2 is draining as fuck to play; I can never do more than 2-3 public matches a day because there's never a medic on our team, and healing the couple of chucklenuts that can actually move and shoot is a pain in the anus.

Feels great when we win, but it's always a struggle to get that final capture.

...

...

Because Valve panders and only listen to normalfags who can't get good at the game so they nerf anything into oblivion that those idiot's consider "OP"

Actually the nerf shit only for Comp scene.

Tough Break was a shitty update for most of the classes I like, who the hell buffs the worst way to play Pyro? Phlogfags

Since Overwatch came out I've noticed a dip in the quality of players, all the good or at least non-retarded players who actually speak English and use a mic are gone, and pubs are soaked in dumb fucks with a gibus and usernames like jgonzalez3424 who are nothing but bullet fodder

Still a deeper game mechanically than Overwatch and has more charm

...

why the fuck would they do this

I just want my fucking comics, man

It's been 8 months

Originally sv_pure was meant to stop people from manipulating models/textures/sounds to give them advantages (see through walls, extra-loud decloak sound, etc).
Now it also forces you can buy their skins for customization.

What about the guys who get wild with the advance bone tool/faceposer and makes art, y'know snapshots.

...

If europoor try triggerhappygamers

...

Turns out that there's a mod that lets you bypass sv_pure, hopefully it works.

fuck meant for

Yeah, that's some real Kitty shit right there, right down to the sound effects.

I can't believe he's dead

splatoon's better