FATE/EXTELLA WESTERN RESLEASE FROM XSEED

whenever they bring fate to the west it always has the japanese audio

So you can't be the guy that fucks the girl?

It's already confirmed jap audio
twitter.com/XSEEDGames/status/740240715876159488

I can rest easy, then. I'm a tad jumpy when it comes to localizations these days.

Not really a high bar, though. All it had to do was have not-waifus and somewhat of a semblence of power balance instead of almost immediately introducing the strongest servant ever to then bullshit around it.

Have you actually played those games?

Nope. You're forgetting that we had Fate/Unlimited Codes released here as well, with no English dubbing, on top of Fate/Extra with no English dubbing.

What the hell happened with that teaser revealing male playable servants.

Archer Emiya and Gil are there.

how come fate always comes to the west with no english dubs but some games refuse to put dual audio like atlus and persona 5?

If you think those are games, you'd love the iphone app store selection of "games"

Because fate is for turbo weebs while atlus appeals to normalfaglites?

Licenses, money, audience. How many normalfags could you show Fate to even with dubs and have them not freak out that King Arthur is a girl? Now how many people can you show a screenshot of 'I loooooove them balls' in P4 and have them laugh and be kinda interested? That's pretty much the reason. Also XSEED cares about quality translations more than dubbing, so I doubt they would want to hire a company to do voice work. As for why no dual audio, I assume it's licenses and other stupid shit like reverse importing. Games like Under Night In-Birth are $40 on release in the US, and were ¥7000 or so in Nipland.

...

So, no, you haven't played them. Got it. And if you're going to shit on Senran, leave the thread, since Extella is the same gameplay.

Will it have yuri?

Fuck off loser.

it's…so beautiful

Nice, I hope the Vita version gets a physical release too.

No, the Master selection is confirmed

It might be they mean you get to choose between three heroine servants, or that you get to have multiple servants.

I hope the protagonist has better mana flow than Shirou. He's gonna need to be overflowing with mana

...

"mana"

...

any kind of medium that uses sex appeal to swindle its consumers is automatically trash. fight me irl.

""mana""

Guess you don't like anything, since sex has been used to sell all kinds of stuff in every medium.

Fuck the /u/boats though. You're better than furries, but that's like saying a slap on the cheek is better than being shot.

entertainment product then?

Yuri is pure.

...

Better, though I'd disagree if this is swindling you for fanservice since most of these games are actually filled with gameplay.

In a good yuri setting, sex is the messenger, not the message.

Why are you faggots excited for another censored game?

he looks like shit, good thing they changed it.

You, I, and everybody else here know that's wishful thinking.

I'd rather have a good story and good gameplay rather than good gameplay tand titties everywhere. Since time and money are limited, very rarely we can have all three.

Honestly I've had enough with sex in my media.

wew lad

Shitting on Senran couldn't be easier.
XXXY
Y charge y y y
XXXXY (when you unlock it)

Just tap a touchscreen. Same experience.

It only has fan service and tacked on "gameplay" that wouldn't even be acceptable on the original gameboy.

Senran's a decent story, actually. Though if you're looking for a good story, you're probably looking the wrong medium, since video games are about playing a visual thing, hence we get lots of visual design and gameplay mechanics from game to game, rather than well written prose that you would expect from a respected author. And you're probably consuming too much anime if sex appeal is going overboard, after I stopped paying attention to anime, I had to actively seek out weeb games to see titties in my games.

What I mean is, when was the last time a game's story didn't rely on platitudes, cliché, beatings of deceased equines and, more recently, memes?

I'm wondering, but wouldn't Fate's obssession of turning historical male character into females be on the same level of the Epic of King We Wuz for $current_year ?

and shit.

I forgot.

fuck, forgot to remove the sage

oh no, it's much stronger

fate was never about that and it only applied to arturia but somewhere along the way fate became flanderized at being about that kind of the thing

He's an Archer because of his Gate of Babylon, which he shoots all his stuff out of at you at high speeds with a rapid rate. Archer Emiya (No Name) engages you in close quarters with his magical knock-offs. Like Excalipoor.

Those two are protagonists from Fate/Extra (both of them). They have the mana. And they have all their Servants' love (and Gil's favor).

Fallout 4. :^)
Though with regard to the memes comment, that seems less like story, more like dialogue in general. I disagree about platitudes since there's sometimes things you miss with discussions and ideas, so I find the eternal good vs evil debates presented every so often to be interesting.

but in fate extra gilgamesh's class isnt archer. in extra he is gilgamesh

I'll give you Jack The Reaper due to his/her real identity being completely unknown, although as far as I know the only lead that were considered credible put men as the criminal.

So we got : King Arthur, Mordred, Nero, Francis Drake, basically one per itteration a major political figure turned out to be woman, and that's ignoring FGO. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it makes me smile that some people are probably going to go completely bonkers once Fate/foo start getting more normalfag attention.

but that's exactly the worst part in that regard IIRC

Well yeah, but FGO due to it's nature probably have a bit more people telling Nasu to stop writing so much about crustacean analogies and start putting in fan service so they can scam people out.

...

And there is practically zero change in his abilities or demeanor, he's exactly the same as he was as an Archer.

What? This phrasing makes no sense considering what we know. Is this fucking implying you can only choose those three and all others are just enemies? Even then it wouldn't be their perspective, but the masters'. Is this just shit tier phrasing?

because ATLUS never allows for dual audio, it's practically a meme at this point

Atlus has only released two games with dual audio, and they are both versions of Persona 4 Arena. They only did that because they were forced to, and in exchange for said dual audio, P4A is the only region-locked game on the PS3.

Because of the massive backlash, instead of being region locked, Ultimax doesn't have true dual audio; while the nip is still on the disc, Story mode forces you to use english text and audio.

I'm pretty fucking stoked. I'm not really all that surprised considering the domain listings leak that happened a month or two ago, but it's nice to have this all confirmed all the same. Glad XSEED is publishing. Can you imagine what would happen if another localization company touched it?

I'm assuming main story will have you pick between Nero, Tamamo, and Attila but the others will be playable via freequest shit or something. There's supposed to be 16 playable servants iirc.

You've never played one of these two.
I'm not sure which, but comparing the two is completely retarded.

...

laughingrapedmaids.jpg

Only thing on limit is time. Nasu, despite the bitching of the fanbase, is a very solid and capable writer. He already cut his teeth on Fate/Extra, so you shouldn't expect anything horrible from this, although given the musou nature, don't expect something solid like Zero or Stay Night from start to finish. It'll be worth the ride.

Meanwhile, it's in your best interest if you're interested in this to poke at Marvelous on their forums and ask about a PC port of Fate/CCC. Aksys likely doesn't have the license anymore if XSEED is running this title. It's likely the best chance we have of seeing CCC ported to the west.

So..total shit.

EXTRA and CC were shit

You're shit

Which is even stupider.

They just make up shit and write shit.
The plot is shit.
The twists are shit.
The powers are shit.
The explanations are shit. I especially like "greater mistery beats lesser mistery" as an explanation how you can kill Berserker seven times…and then magically it doesn't work when it comes to EA vs. Avalon. And Avalon doesn't even work like it's supposed to (it reflects gils attack back, which is BS, since it should remove Saber from this world, making her intangible).
The entire setting turned to shit.

And shiros is a giant shit, whose entire character is a Plot Sue.

Nero is super-shit

Yeah they don't really have a very good track record with jap voices. Falcom always denies them and it also happened with a few others like Rune Factory

Sex appeal and the other things you listed are actually NEVER mutually exclusive, nor are they even commonly seperate.

Puritans disgust me, do you think we got to where we are by being sex negative?

what did they mean by this?

Fuck you Xseed

Go on and explain your reasoning instead of throwing around insults like a triggered tumblrite

Nasu didn't write Zero.

But that makes no fucking sense, Attila is not even in the Extra games, Archer and Gilgamesh are. And now they're making it sound as if she gets to be part of the main story and the others don't?

Attila is a to-be heroine for something or other, personally I just think they're pulling shit out of their ass and the default three is nero, Emiya, and Tamano.

You can beat this whole genre by spamming and not paying attention to the gameplay.

I will actually be pissed if Archer and Gilgamesh get this shafted in favor of more shitty yuri pandering.
I hope you're right that this is mostly shit coming from the lack of information.

They are not the main story characters just extra playable characters for the side stories

i dont think there is anything to worry about, EMYIA and Gilgamesh are fan favorites so they will definitely put them in

oh thats kind of lame

And where is that information from?

Japanese magazine, Atilla, Nero, and Tamamo are the only playable main characters while everyone else is a substory

Ow, those are my favorite.

why atilla?

Because she was made for Extella but debut in Grand Order first.

This is fucking garbage.

So they decided to just cut out two of some of the most popular male cast in the Fate franchise from the main character slot, one of which had been through thick and thin in both Extra games.

I wasn't even hyped and I'm still disappoint

Its a waifu game don't think too hard about it- Nasu

yuri is shit

Extra had it.

Official Type-Moon

At least put up Nero next time. You'd have some standing in her case.

So which version are you getting?

CCC when?

...

Shirou a best. Read the VN instead of watching the shit anime.

No sound on original either.

fuck that read drei.

Drei is good, too.

If No Name/EMIYA has a major role in the game, I might have to buy a PS4 or a Vita.

ONE JOB

ONE FUCKING JOB TO PLAY AS YOUR MOST HISTORICALLY ACCURATE FUCKING BASTARDIZATION VOICED BY NORIO WAKAMOTO

AND YOU FUCKING RUINED IT FOR RAINBOW FAGGOTRY ATTILIA THE HUN.

STUPID GOOKS DON'T EVEN KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO GENDERBEND HER SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN UNSHAVEN MUSCLEGIRL WHO LITERALLY COOKED ENTIRE RAW STEAKS WITH HER MASSIVE FAT DRAGON'S CROWN ASS BY RIDING ON HER HORSE WITH IT UNDER HER ASSCHEEKS.

FUCKING NASU MISSING OUT ON LITERALLY WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN 10/10 HOTDOGG BAIT.

THE HUNS COOKED MEAT WITH THEIR ASSES ON HORSES.

AND THEY WASTED IT FOR SKINNY

Atilla the Hun in the game isn't the real Atilla she's an Ayylmao one of the children from Mars

THAT MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING TYPES.

That's going to feel so good

CCC Never because Aksys Games prefer
SCHRODINGER'S CATE SIGMA LOOK AT THIS DIE SCHRODINGER'S CATE SIGMA LOOK AT THIS DIE SCHRODINGER'S CATE SIGMA LOOK AT THIS DIE SCHRODINGER'S CATE SIGMA LOOK AT THIS DIE SCHRODINGER'S CATE SIGMA LOOK AT THIS DIE

over actual sales

Ah
good point.

But to be fair….nah. Good point.

No, she's Attila. I don't know where people get this stupid idea that she's supposed to be an alien. Read her full Fate/Grand Order character bio.

>then she starts talking about the Bolsheviks and Rothschilds
>she name drops Operation Gomorrah and how centuries after her obliteration society is still enthrall to globalist wealthy families
>she outs him as being from the family lineage as the Bolshevik Jews of Europe

I could go on, but that would be something else. Sadly, it will never happen.

Because all of the servants who meet her called her fake, its not just the character bio. Artemis doesn't like her, Bryn calls her fake, Scat is interested in her.

I would totally exterminate mongrels for a king like that.

Though the part where he cucks everyone could be counted as a downside.

So the logical conclusion to jump to is that she's an alien? They could be calling her fake because Attila was known as a man, you know.

I see the atila meme is still going strong no matter HOW MANY TIMES it has to be proven bullshit.

What the fuck

That's what they are basically saying since they all knew the real Atilla, Nasu is hinting she's either Type-Mars or Type=Mar's projection.

the wiki says she has the favor of the god of war mars which is ares. it has nothing to do with being a type or being from the planet mars

...

Mana?

mána

You are truly the biggest faggot, OP.

It's been 7 years since I played Fate/Extra and read through F/SN
Cut me some slack

Besides, you don't count magic circuits. That's like counting your veins to see how much blood you have.

actually wait WOW it's been seven years? Seriously?
all that time just gone…

It has more to do with the fact that she was found, her being from Mars or created by Mars is possible but Type is unlikely unless she's like Type Venus and Type Mars just created a human proxy too.

Dude. Magic Circuit count is explicitly a measure of how potent your spells can be.

It's why Magic Crests are a thing; artificially adding more circuits from your ancestors.

And your filenames suck.

It's weird
people keep telling me Nerō Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus is in Fate/stay, But I can't ever find a picture of him

It's not a factor for potency and potential. That has more to do with pedigree, anomolly, and actual gift.

Shirou's got 27 or so circuits and can't actually magic worth a shit save for that near-impossible Reality Marble of his.

Rin & Sakura have double Shirou's count and they're capacity is warranted by bloodline, but they shine as strong magi because they were born with rare and really potent attributes (5 element control for Rin and ether/spirit manipulation for Sakura)

Aoko has like one circuit but she's a damned monster as a magus and as a Sorcerer

Her sister has a few more and she's an absolute monster of a magus

Etc etc. Quantity is not actually quality with Magic Circuits.

Yes it is. Quantity and Quality both affect how much magical energy they can use and thus how much power they can exert.

Affinity mysteries affect what they can do, but assuming equal affinity for a mystery then the one with the bigger output(ie. more and better circuits) will win. If that is equal then it comes down to their pool of energy. This is basic shit, it's how Rin could stalemate Sakura in HF.

Aoko is a freak of nature with her one circuit, you can't use her as an example of anything other than "Magicians fuck every rule" you dumb fuck. It literally spells it out "To use a simile, it was like driving a car for 1000 km on 1 L of gas.".

That's because Nero isn't in Fate/Stay Night. King Arthur is in F/SN.

Nero is in Fate/Extra.

:^)

Shirou can't cast magic outside the two he is good at because of his Origin and Element being Sword thanks to Avalon.

those are the same character? expect for the black underwear chick?

actually the one thats the same character is the blue and black one. the red one is the one thats different while the white one im not sure

The last one is the same as the blue and black one(technically), only she was originally an alt skin in a fighting game and then got turned into the blue one when she was younger and had a worse sword.

Saber clones, Saber clones everywhere.

da fuck?

Takuechi (The official artist) loves his Saber. It's an inside joke at this point.

Embrace the Saber, user.

kek

Lupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin~

ok, now im scared and confused.

Why do people like this anime? It's just like every other super powered bullshit.

Nobody likes the anime. Check out the Visual novel instead.

i like how serious type moon can get how they make fun of themselves. but where is this from?

Probably some random doujin circle that has nothing to do with Type Moon made it.

Poor Gilgamesh, he died like he lived.

Swimming in pussy.

also source. I know it's one of the Fate comics, but I just want to know which.

Nevermind, I decided not to be a faggot and reverse search.

Fate/Stay Night dj: T-Moon Complex S

How exactly is Saber i.e Artoria Pendragon the FATHER of Mordred again?

That's retarded.

Merlin used magic too give her a dick.

And then I remember why this series is rather retarded.

Saber was raped when she had a dick by her older half sister

Merlin gave her a benis.

I want that fucking mousepad holy shit

Yes it is. Quantity and Quality both affect how much magical energy they can use and thus how much power they can exert.

No it doesn't.

Again, Aoko has one magic circuit, and even without her Sorcery has magic that can destroy cities if she felt like.

Ren's Master in Kagetsu Tohya that created her was no extraordinary magi by a long shot, but his proficiency in memory and minds allowed him to create a beyond above-average familiar, and even go as far as to help out Arcueid on a DAA hunt—not something incredibly extraordinary.

Ciel has no massive amount of magic circuits, but she's such a natural anomally that Roa was able to wreak absolute havoc with her potential, turning her village into a Dead haven in a few weeks. It's not her circuits that are impressive, but her magic capacity which rivals even someone like Medea, as well as Roa's extensive knowledge of both Church Rites and magecraft (she opts not to use out of loathing for the man and his skills).

Satsuki wasn't a magic circuit dynamo. She was another anomally with so much potential that she skipped the typically age-long process of going from Dead to Dead Apostle Ancestor nearly overnight.

Most of the people I mentioned weren't trained formally and weren't from pedigree families save Aoko, who herself was actually the "runt" of the liter. Quality and Quantity have nothing to do with a magi's power. It's just that magi have stringently practiced a hereditary system to doggedly hoard the power the manage to attain. Those techniques can be pissed away in the wind (Zouken fucking his family over from day one of the Heaven's Feel ritual), or they could be recovered through other unexpected means (Waver actually salvaging the remains of Kayneth's workshop and the Archibald pedigree).

Try to remember the vast number of magi are mundane as fuck. The entire point of their existence is to highlight the freaks of nature. The Shikis, Shirou, Satsuki, the Aozaki, the Tohno (though theirs is more nature manipulation than magic circuits), Ciel, Kotomine, and so on and so forth.

Hell, Sion doesn't have magic circuits. The entire purpose of the Atlas branch was finding ways to discover more mysteries without the use of Magic Circuits. Hence most Atlas practitioners are alchemists.

And Rin could only stalemate Sakura because they're both of the same blood with the same capacity. It was explained point-blank. Sakura was essentially throwing 1000 units of prana at Rin, and Rin countered by throwing 1000 units of prana right back at her. Sakura's pool of prana was near-limitless, and Rin's pool was infinite.

Nothing to do with their circuit count or quality. It was an issue of pure bucket capacity. Saber could have done the same and better, and she's not a magus. Caster could have done farm more given the chance at the mediums they were using.

Shirou can't into higher forms of magic but can learn mundane things. Recall Archer put Rin to sleep quite easily with a spell.

Recall also that Illya explains extensively that such spells are designed to insert invasive prana of the caster into the target's system, which normally can't be done as a magi has natural high defenses against such things. Rin's a prodigy so a sleep spell is a laughable option to use against her.

So you can conclude that Archer found a spell and did what he did with the rest of his regimen—he practiced the fuck out of it and got gud with it. Cap that with the already-high potential of the Class shells for the ritual, and you have the reason Rin was KO'd so easily.

Nice, consider me hyped.

inb4 >Illya never says this

Read the visual novel.

Yes it does. All other things equalized, the magus with more and better circuits will always win. It's the muscle that defines what a magus can do.

If you have to move a pile of rocks, then the more you can lift(bucket capacity, magic circuit count & quality) and how many times you can lift(pool capacity, their available pool of magical energy) makes a difference in how fast and how much they can move. A clever magus or an alchemist can also move the entire pile by using small amounts over a long time to build something like a tractor or a bomb, but without preparations they will lose to a better endowed magus 10 times out of 10 tries.

Aoko is a freak who even Dead Apostles find inhuman and it even explains how she's a fucking weirdo. No car could drive 1000km with one liter of gas, just as no other magi can do what she does.

Ren's master didn't create Ren in an instant, he had time and resources to do whatever. Circuits affect what they can do instantly, without preparations and resources.

Yes, yes Ciel has insane magic capacity, but we don't know her circuit count so you can't use her as a fucking example of how circuits don't matter you idiot.

Satsuki was turned into a Dead Apostle, she's entirely irrelevant to the discussion, moreover she doesn't even use magecraft. Furthermore, does she even have circuits in the first place? Stupid fucking example that has nothing to do with anything.

Sion is a fucking Alchemist you moron. Alchemy is specifically a branch of magecraft created by people with few circuits.

The fuck are you talking about? They stalemated because they had the exact same output, ie Circuit count and composition.

Circuit count and quality IS bucket capacity you moron.

Fuck it, let's throw in some quotes:

How about you read the fucking VN before you start talking shit about the mechanics.

So it works like Bucket Capacity from Slayers?

Pretty sure it originates from there, but I don't think the word bucket and pool capacity are ever exactly used.

Magic circuits are responsible for converting life force into magical energy, and for connecting to the underlying grand sorcery formula.

And

the necessary amount of magical energy, a key (password/spell/code), and magic circuits to inject the magical energy into the "engine". If we assume for a moment that magical energy is electricity, then magic circuits would be both the reactor that produces that electricity, as well as the pipelines for running the system.

That Archer part sounds like conjecture, so I won't comment on it. But the Illya part I'm curious about, I checked the HF part and she just explains picture related and doesn't go into detail.

I think it was explained earlier in Fate how Magic Circuits counteract such spells, or then you're thinking of Caster in UBW when she kidnapped Shirou.

Now that I think about it, magecraft is pretty much Black Magic from Slayers, but instead of Demons they're using foundations.

And kind of like how you can't use a black magic spell against a demon, magic resistance also shuts down magecraft, rather than shielding from the effects or being a threshold or percentage of the damage that is slashed.

Yeah, you were thinking about Caster and Shirou, I checked the scene.

The simplified answer, to the confused who are reading all of this:

Every magus has a certain number of magic circuits naturally within them, plus ones spliced onto their body through the use of a family crest. Bloodline generally determines magic circuits, but it is also possible for one to wane over time, or for them to randomly come up. Individuals like Kirei may also be born with the gift through Church fuckery, but these are an exception.

Circuits are decided by two things: quantity and quality. Most mages have a pretty basic number, while exceptional one's like Rin can have twice that, and exceedingly powerful mages like Lorelei likely go well beyond. Some circuits are better quality than others, or possess unusual properties. The girl Manaka from Fate/Prototype is an example, having a lower circuit count, but an impossibly good quality to them. An individual mage is also affected by their Alignment - Ren is an Average Mage with an alignment to all five elements, while Shirou has the very specific alignment of Sword, which prevents him from doing much beyond reinforcement and projection despite having more circuits than the average mage.

There is another aspect: Origin, the direct root for the individual from Akasha. Most mages do not have an awakened origin, or really know it. The same goes for regular people, who also have an Origin. In the case of someone like Araya Souren, who has the awakened Origin of Stillness, he essentially becomes still as a person - he is still functioning, but as a walking corpse. Even a normal human can be made dangerous with a strange Origin awakened, such as Consumption. For mages, Origin can function similar to Alignment in matching. For Gods Word, he has an origin of Nostalgia, leading him to mastery over the Ancient Language. For Shirou, his Origin is Sword, which along with his alignment locks him into a single magic he can truly perform - Unlimited Blade Works, a world full of swords. A Reality Marble which would almost certainly get him a Sealing Designation.

In practice, a mage with superior magic circuit quality and quantity will have an advantage over another. There are exceptions. The first is True Magic, such as what Aoko practices - while she isn't exceptional as a normal mage, with the power of the Fifth Magic, she performs exceptionally. In the hands of Zelretch, a powerful mage in his own right, the Second Magic allows him to single-handedly fell Crimson Moon Brunestud in single combat.

The other exception is best explained as "fuckery". Someone like Gods Word isn't as powerful as a mage like Rin, but possess a single magic which could shut down most other mages without any chance of them doing anything. And then there's what happened to poor Cornelius Alba. He shouldn't have gotten involved with monsters.

Call Touko Dirty Red, get eaten by suitcase Shoggoth.

This literally never happens. Like, ever. Even in the materials Nasu didn't write.

Can't argue so call people an idiot. Kek.

>Core unchecked potential great enough to turn her not into a Dead Apostle, but a Dead Apostle Ancestor candidate, complete with fucking Reality Marble

muh quality circuit count

No shit, sherlock. Believe I said that when I said Atlus's primary practitioners were alchemist. Surprising fact: alchemist seem to come up with the most hype shit in the TM universe, including the only Reality Marble that cannot be destroyed by Gaea's system (Lair of the Beast King), a Reality Marble/existence born entirely from math (Night on the Blood Liar), a genuine Sorcery (Heaven's Feel), drones and clones capable of operating on the level of even the most-established offensive magi and even some Servants (Lesrytt), etc. With little or no real magic circuits. M-muh quality.

Technically, Rin had more circuits in that battle than Sakura did. What with her family crest and all. It literally came down to Rin's prana capacity (which is NOTHING to do with her circuit count) being the same as Sakura's.

Rin says this much during the fight. The exposition clears this point up. Hell, Shirou directly states this in that instant in the fight with Gilgamesh where everyone swears he's just waxing metaphorical. Rin's general daily capacity of prana is around 1000 units. So is Sakura's. Shirou's is far lower, though he gives no fucks about going over his limit even at determent to his body.

Holy shit, lrn2nasu. Circuit count is number of veins in the soul's structure. Prana capacity is the amount of odic force a soul can produce for the mind/body's purposes per day/week. Again, Shirou's is paltry/average, Rin & Sakura's are phenomenal. Ciel's is absolutely unheard of in the modern age shy of Bartholomelloi and inhumans.

Bucket Capacity is a shorthand I borrowed from Slayers to get the point across. It's furthest from what happens with Thaumaturgy because it's far too simplistic.

And this is why I shouldn't have used bucket capacity. Because even LINA was fast to state the difference between the bucket (total amount of magical energy a magician can hold—usually not adjustable in their lifetime) and the faucet (potency/amount castable in a day, can possibly increase with training).

A magi has a capacity that's more or less fixed and it's an entirely different way. Going past it means death or maiming the caster—Shirou being the living example of that for more examples than you can count. The circuit count is also fixed more or less from birth aside of some painful early augmentations in blueblood families. Capacity breach can tap someone dry, but they can go past that limit obviously at great risk.

Circuit quality and quantity can factor into the career of a magi but it damn-well does not count or hold ultimate rate to their success or potential. Magician traits, Root Origin, and pedigree will factor more into that than quality or quantity of the circuits.

Lurk more.

It's a term directly from Slayers, although Rin uses the metaphor over instances of the Visual Novel.

Fate route. I'm fighting to remember exactly, but one of the instances where she hypnotizes Shirou, she goes over those details. Can't recall if it's one of the bad ends or if it's the kidnapping to Einzbern Castle.

It serves as an "oh yeah" moment later on in UBW route when Shirou wakes up and is suddenly Caster's captive in Ryuudouji Temple. Shirou has absolutely zero guard against that kind of magecraft.

It's not. Black magic is ritualistic in nature and relies almost entirely on an alternate being as a source of power, with the caster's pool magic as the catalyst. The more powerful the source/talisman, the stronger the spell. Hence why Giga Slave and the Claire Bible contents are big shit in Slayers land.

Magecraft is, quite literally, self-hypnosis to utilize magic energy/odic force/prana in the body to actualize a mystery in the real world. Rituals in Magecraft often don't rely on beings of power as much as summon them or sacrifice them.

You will never, ever run into something with the destructive power of a Gaav Flare or a Dragon Slave unless it's Aoko or it's one of the higher ranked mystic beings (Heroic Spirits, demons on Kishima Kouma's level, certain Phantasmal Beasts, etc).

There probably ARE spells and curses similar to that ball of reviving flesh curse that Xelloss uses, though.

Why live?

>Gilgamesh gets mad when you're just yanking his chain
heh

I'm pretty sure that kind of shit falls under Strengthening which is one of the two things Shirou can do the other is Projection (and Tracing).

If Circuits don't do anything, why would Magi try to increase the amount that their children have, through breeding?

You're arguing that circuit count and quality don't matter, and use someone as an example. I point out that the example is irrelevant because it doesn't contain any information about circuits and I call you retarded over the example. You try to cry more about it.

So you have no idea how many Circuits they have? Why bring them up? They're fucking irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

They're still the weakest bitches in straight up combat because they have zero magical muscle. The fact that they make hype shit with time and effort is irrelevant. If a Magus with 20 circuits and an Alchemist with 2 use a fire spell, the Alchemist's fire will always be weaker.

The fact that the Alchemist has a basement full of doomsday weapons is irrelevant in this context, so your meaningless waffling about reality marbles and True Magic is fucking pointless.

And? Rin only needs to equal the amount she throws out.
"The Magic Circuit called Matou Sakura can only instantaneously release about a thousand."

This is how she wins, despite Sakura have a trillion magical energy.

Yeah, no. Sakura had way fucking more magical energy in her reserves, see the fucking pictures.

Fuck no you moron, that''s a part of their pool capacity. They produce a certain amount, but their circuits limit how much they can use per instant.

Funny you mention her. Because the Lorelei are noted for being fucking broken for having Blue Blood Noble Magic Circuits. In the first place, why would Magi try to increase the amount of Circuits their kids have if they do nothing?

Exactly, which is why Circuits are a big fucking deal. The amount of magical shit you can deadlift is set a birth, do you want to be a little twink who can barely lol2plate or do you want to lift trucks?

How about you read the VN and materials instead.

And let me highlight it for you again you blind little bitch:
"The Magic Circuit called Matou Sakura can only instantaneously release about a thousand."

How about you read the materials fucko.

I was comparing Foundations to Mazoku in function, as in they both pay an amount of magical energy and the outside factor creates the effect. You're once again stumbling over irrelevancies with the whole "nothing in Fate is as powerful" spiel like a little knee jerking bitch.

Wait hold the fuck up are you serious? Sakura is a Grail Vessel, in terms of prana she is utterly monstrous in how much she has. It is for all practical purposes limitless, but the maximum output she can dish out is about the same as Rin's. Rin's prana is far lower and she can only match it because of the Sword of Zelritch.

Read the fucking VN.

Played the game, Shiro's still a fag. Furhermore the secondaries in the series are often better than the originals (IE:FZ)

I realize I'm super fucking late, but can anyone at all justify this position to me? Don't even compare Extra to SN; just judge Extra by its own merits. I found Extra to be upsettingly bad, in every respect, and frankly I'm deeply confused as to why people are excited about its sequels. I guess Extella doesn't have its gameplay, and that's definitely a step up no matter what it is, but why would you want CCC?
I don't mean to upset anyone by saying this, but I genuinely want someone to explain to me any positive facet of Extra other than "a character I like is in it". I've asked this question before, and that's the answer I usually get.

Not sure if elaborate troll.

I liked Extra because I got the nuke the living shit out of fuckers with Archer.

Honestly it kinda kills me that I have to hate something with Archer in it.

It's EXTREME ROCK PAPER SCISSOR because to get those numbers, you have to put fuck all into Def and Mgi which really makes you a glass cannon. Fuck up one prediction and you're dead.

So I managed to enjoy the gameplay. Played it twice with Archer, too. Just to compare a glass cannon build to one where his stats are like in canon. The canon one was fucking terrible, true hardmode, since I did zero fucking damage to everything.

But yeah, mostly played it for Archer.

Circuits channel the Odic Force/prana to make the spells real. Magi do what they do to their children to increase the chances of their lineage lasting and the research continuing. Quality of circuits can do things to alter an individual's potential, but as I've been saying, they are not the key or even the cornerstone factor in defining a magi's abilities or powers. THOSE factors are better determined by environment, Origin, and effort. Even no-talent fucks can make practical breakthroughs, or teach others to become better. Circuits aren't the most important, they're just the pipes that get help accomplish the work.

That's why. Type-Moon is always about highlighting the exceptions among the so-called rules..

Your opinion's irrelevant. Particularly in the face of Wallachia, who is the closest to being able to discover the Dark Six and the end of the world, and Dust of Osiris, who DOES discover both and then some. These are people just as capable as all the student denizens of the Clock Tower. Also, Nero Chaos rounds out basically the most-destructive trio of the Dead Apostle Ancestors. All Alchemists. The one exception is Roa, who was an adept at every-fucking-thing and actually turned math itself into a Reality Marble.

1. That's wrong. Two people generating the same spell will produce the same results unless ONE OF THEM IS ADAPT AT THAT SCHOOL OR PARTICULAR FORM OF MAGIC. There is a reason Shirou's ether projections are so damned potent, for example. It's not because he has 27 circuits in his body. Lest you forget: he wasn't even using them a majority of his life for his magecraft practice. He effectively spent half his life almost killing himself turning his body into a temporary prana conduit instead of using his magic circuits.

No one else on the planet can produce the results with Gradiant Air that Shirou can. No one. The so-called prodigies with their high-quality circuits would instead try to actively enslave Shirou rather than poorly attempt to duplicate what he does.

That's also the reason Sealing Designations are given out. To preserve the amazing shit other magi can't do on their own through simple or stringent means. This is why Medea threw Shirou into a vat in one of the Bad Ends. Instead of trying to duplicate his power, she shut his ass in a jar and used him as a living magic wand.

Meanwhile, big and tough accomplished magi couldn't find Caster's layer. But a weak kid with a science kit was able to do it with no problems.

"The Magic Circuit called Matou Sakura can only instantaneously release about a thousand."

And, the "output" has fuck all to do with circuits. Use your brain.

By your logic, Rin should have had the edge in that encounter because she had another 45 circuits in her shoulder and arm than Sakura. But that's irrelevant. The circuits are just there for pouring energy. They can't widen the OUTPUT of either girl any, so each was attacking with the same amount of magical force.

Rin had a wand that let her cheat and channel the mana of the cavern from other dimensions. Mana, not prana. Infinite supply with 1000 output vs inexhaustible supply with 1000 output. How are you having this much trouble. Shit, in that regard, if we just subtract the Rin's physical exhaustion from the equation, she ends up with the bigger pool because her sources are literally infinite and will never run out. Given the same for Sakura, a trillion units of prana WILL run out (although that's not what that battle was about).

Except no, twinklebell. Circuits can generate prana indefinitely, but at the cost of that person's health/life. The POOL as you indicated is what the magus can safely draw upon without due severe risk to themselves.

This is the exact reason Dead Apostles are so deadly, since exhaustion of the mind or soul is no longer a serious concern for them. Their body/genetic material is something that needs constant renewal, however.

Is a fucking mutant from an near-impossible equation over 1,000 years in cultivating. You can suck her teat as she's the only thing stanting that can prove your CIRCUITS ARE IMPORTANT silly theory toward any ground, but fact remains only a handful of families were able to produce her results, and the majority that tried fell into ruin and couldn't keep it up.

And lest we forget, her ass got shown up by a blind kid with a fucking butter knife. Who has no circuits to speak of.

m-m-muh quality theory

Which ones? The old print that doesn't contradict as much, or the post III prints that likes to retcon meanings and personae rolls here and there?

And you're still wrong, as Mazoku wouldn't qualify as any such thing, given they'd be leaps and bounds about Phantasmal Beast if nothing else in TM's equivalent, capable of shaping pockets of the world at will and without much effort. A TM Magi has to suggest a function to themselves and use their energy or outside energy to actualize it. Keep being sore all night, buttercup.

Yeah, no, dipstick. Being a false grail key only meant she had literally an inexhaustable supply of prana. Where Rin was snatching her resources from alternate dimensions, Sakura was using a supply she could never exhaust on her own. And that had all of fuck to do with the number of circuits in her body. In case it's forgotten, Illya and Shinji also sat in the same position as grail vessels. She was just more suited to it than either of them thanks to Zouken's post 4th war augmentations.

No matter her reserves, her safe firepower limit is 1000 units per attack. The only thing being the vessel afforded her was repeated attacks without exhaustion.

YOU read the fucking VN.

Fuck, my Archer has MGI as his highest stat right now.

In short, the gameplay is awful but you're a huge fanboy so you found your own fun in it. I'd hesitate to be so blunt, but that's pretty much exactly what you said, so I assume you won't take offense to it.
I can't say you're in the wrong for enjoying something, man. You do you. But my quest to find anyone defending Fate/Extra as something sincerely good continues.

"The Magic Circuit called Matou Sakura can only instantaneously release about a thousand."
And yet she has over a trillion magical energy. See the image in:

The VN contradicts your shit all the way, and the other works follow suit.

And hey, let's use some CM entries:
In order to start up sorcery, three things are required:the necessary amount of magical energy, a key (password/spell/code), and magic circuits to inject the magical energy into the "engine".
So metaphor-wise, magic circuits are the fuel injector in a car. Do you know what happens when you add more fuel injectors? More gasoline can be passed through.

So I don't know, would having more and better pipes affect anything?

Ilya for example overpowered Saber Alter with Excalibur, by having a higher output. Because, you know, her entire body is one fuckhueg magic circuit.

Read the CM
Foundations for magecraft do the exact same thing as Mazoku, they enact spells in exchange for magical energy. And they're not something inside the magus, as sharing the spell makes it weaker.

And one more for the road you silly little bitch:
"The Magic Circuit called Matou Sakura can only instantaneously release about a thousand."

You dun goof'd boy. MGI is the next most useless stat in the game, next to Luck. It gives you small boosts to attack and defense and maybe increases odds of making Hrunting stat downs work.

It's a terrible game but I like it.

So Shirou has over a hundred circuits?

Not a metaphor?

wew
e
w

Shiiiiiiiit.

Yes, yes. Origins, affinity, hard work matters. But the magical muscle a person has is their magic circuit. That is the basis for how much shit they can do.

Alba had a fuckton more circuits than Araya and Touko and he could engulf everything in fire and do shit that the other two simply didn't have the muscle for. He was still weaker in a fight than both, but I haven't been talking about that at all. You keep trying to throw strong fighters at me as examples, when they have fuck all to do with the thing I'm talking about.

The Magic Circuit is their bucket capacity; how costly a spell they can use. Shirou can bring out swords that have hundreds of units of magical energy, but the projections themselves only cost 5, so his circuits matter fuck all in that equation.

But then he tries to project two or more at once with one circuit against Gil and he can't, damaging his circuit in the process, because it's not strong enough to handle the strain.
Ergo:

But if Shirou and let's say Archer, who as a Servant has vastly superior ability to handle magical energy, fight then Shirou will always lose even if their skills and spells are the same.

All other things equalized, magic circuits make the difference.

It's pretty balanced, just dump everything into STR from here on, and Agi so you get tighter damage groupings. Agi makes you damage on average higher and enemy damage lower on average, so it's pretty good.

She did have the advantage, she was destroying the shadow giants effortlessly.

Whether or not she had more circuits was irrelevant as she only needed to equal Sakura per action. Sakura can only use about a thousand and Rin can match that by pulling in the mana from the cave, which was just enough. One shadow, one swing. Anything more would be extraneous since it wouldn't be enough to kill another shadow and she would have to start using two caves for one swing and for all we know it can only access one parallel world at a time.

1. Every swing was also wrecking the cave
2. Every swing was wrecking her body and had already shredded the muscles in her arm
3. Sakura going on a wild rampage being provoked would have collapsed the cave and killed everyone but Sakura and the mega hell baby

The advantage wasn't really Rin's, tactically speaking. She just had a knife that evened the playing field and set her up for a kill strategy (that she failed on because sisterly love).

You're trying to push circuits as important when all they do is allow work to be executed. Alba gets ripped to shreds like he does because he can't compare to the monsters he stands next to.

I keep pointing to the "monsters" because the monsters prove the rule isn't a rule. The circuits commit work, but the brain, the origin, the training, and in cases, the environment help craft people that pull miracles off that make the average magic user entirely mundane and irrelevant.

Shirou's shit is low quality. But this same low-quality magic specialist was able to stand his own against beings that could (and did) kill him with ease. The circuits are there to execute the work. They don't spell victory or divine mystery solved for a magi. There's too many factors between that need addressing, first.

No, she was shredding her arm into near-crippled status, meanwhile every single counter to Sakura threatened to bring the cave down around them both. Rin was clearly disadvantaged in that fight in more ways that one. Zelretch's wand only evened the field to where Rin wouldn't die in an instant.

But her intellect and instincts understood that point, and allowed her to maneuver Sakura into a legitimate stalemate (before her mouth cost her a stomachache). The circuits were the vehicle to stall Sakura's rampage. At no given point was Rin a clear victor in that exchange. She didn't lose, but the odds were against her by a good margin, and her own capacity kept her living long enough to effect a different tactic.

Also, 1000 is her limit. It's not like she could have doubled her swings as you say, or even concentrated firepower to start taking down all at once. Nor, obviously, did she have a need to.
In that line of thinking, it's more like she was lucky Sakura was her opponent.

And you are the secondary. Goodnight.

Finally, you understand. You're fucking dense one, alright.

Hardly, she had total control for the whole fight. The fact that the Gem Sword was shredding her arm only meant that she couldn't play the long game and even then she felt safe in waiting for Shirou until the last minute.

Yes, as there is no more mana in the cave.

I've posted multiple screenshots from the game itself and cited the Materials. Yet the fact that I've read Prisma Illya makes me a secondary?

You're retarded. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Wasn't Drake supposed to actually be the Queen in disguise?

I have, it's shit.

Why do you fandumbs just resort to "read the VN".
Why are you so uncapable of understanding that one could possibly read and understand and STILL not like it?

Every time you go "b-but there's an explanation for how Shirou does/survives X".
So what? Just because there is an explanation doesn't mean it's a good one. Furthermore, they very fact that all these explanations are necessary is a problem in itself. Well written characters and plots don't need a far-fetch explanations every 5 seconds.

Why was it bad, then?

Your dislike obviously hinges on Shirou, so let me ask you this:

Did you use a walkthrough?

Well, you don't seem to be coming back, and letting this TL;DR go to waste would be a shame.

True, but that doesn't mean that Nasu is a bad writer. He wants to makes sure the mechanics are understood, since a lot of the story hinges on said mechanics. Also, he likes to foreshadow, as most everything is hinted at earlier in the VN. Archer's identity, Sakura's situation, Kotomine and Gil, Lancer's master, Shirou being better at projection than reinforcement, Avalon. All of these things for example are hinted at before they're actually relevant in the story.

The reason why people are told to read the VN, however, is mostly due to the fact that the anime are 3rd person observers, whereas the story was written as a 1st person narrative. Half the fun of Nasu stories is the main characters weirdness, as Nasu seems to abhor normal narrators.

The reason I ask if you used a walkthrough is that the story was written as a Visual Novel, which is a form of CYOA. This means that the reader is made a part of the story and they have to think through which choice they want to make, adding immersion and depth to the experience.

If you read it with a walkthrough, you take out that element of the unknown and it admittedly becomes a lot weaker as a story, since it wasn't written like a regular novel, but it still works acceptably as seen with the anime being fairly successful. If you want to compare Nasu's style without these trappings, then the Kara no Kyokai novels could be worth a look.

Though explanations abound, because he's chuuni.

Because it's inconsistent, Shirous is stupid as hell, because the universe revolves areound him to enable him and Saber victory.
Most things that save them feel like they've are pulled right out of the ass or adjusted/changed in the last moment when the writer realized he fucked up.

I repeat:
- how do you kill someone 7 times with one hit?

- If a greater mystery trumps a lesser one (explanation I heard used for why Caliburn can kill berserker 7 times), why doesn't EA trump Avalon?

- Why does Shirou recieve memories/knowledge from Archer - EXACTLY what he needs when he needs it?

Everything revoles around him. He gets powers, abilities, items, just the right circumstances - just the things he needs to win. We even find out exceptions to rules tailor-made for him.

IF you keep asking me how can I possibly NOT like it, I have to ask you how can ANYONE with an iota of a brain like the shit writing.

Except I don't care.
1st or 3rd person makes no difference to me. Alternate paths make no difference to me, since only one is True anyway.

I had people tell me that "but Shirou can die in the VN and all paths are canon".
Star Trek and capeshit all have alternate realities as canon too.
Does that make Lt. Mary Sue any less a Sue?
Does the existence of a Superman that can't sneeze galaxies away in universe 2281773make his shit stink any less?

Nope.

I'm going to go ahead and disregard literally everything you have to say now.

Shirou's priorities are strange, but he's not stupid. That and he's a complete autist who cannot into his own feelings.

And this is where the choices come to matter. When you read it and choose wrong, Saber gets enslaved, Rin gets her head crushed and Shirou gets turned into a doll. That adds tension and makes the story. You could call it artifical, but it's a VN, it's not bound by the same rules as regular novels.

Same way Berserker feels that a head on Excalibur hit could kill him if Saber managed to get it off, multi-hit probably.

Both are of the same rank, so that doesn't quite apply. If Avalon was a barrier or a shield, it would matter. But like Fragarach, which goes back in time to counter the opponent before they attack, it steps aside that whole issue.

The world has trouble telling them apart, like enantiomorphing from Elder Scrolls. They affect one another similarly to how if a person is bound into a tree, they might start thinking they're a tree and stop being a person. Illya does it to Shirou in HF and explains that bit.

As to why Shirou gets exactly what he needs, he's drawing all that out as he realizes he needs to catch up. But a lot of the time he's just getting lucky as shit. It's a valid complain that a lot of the time they just get lucky, but considering that it's supposed to be a sort of 1% chance story, I don't mind it.

Well, yeah. Pic related.

The story was written essentially to be a analysis, ode to and refutation of a shounen hero who fights for his friends and never gives up.

But it does. In the anime, 4/5 of the actual story is cut out and Shirou's character is barebones as fuck.

Think of it like a game that you play, where when you fuck up it either gives you a game over and forces you to reload a save from some point earlier, or where it doesn't punish you at all and simply lets you continue.

It's kind of like that. Kind of. Proper literature has to keep the reader interested and from getting bored; if you know that he hero will succeed and nothing will go wrong then it's not very interesting to read. Like I mentioned earlier, a Visual Novel doesn't need to balance the story with the suspense like this, because it can just throw in bad endings to keep you from losing interest.

Like, I used to save at every choice and then only reload if Shirou died. So when he went into the church cellar in Fate and got ganked, I was sure that it was a bad ending, so I was 100% certain that he was about to get horribly maimed again. So instead when he pulls through by the skin of his teeth, it was that much more unexpected. Artificial, maybe, but effective nonetheless.

Right, well. Is Shirou a Mary Sue? I wouldn't say so, as almost everyone in the story disagrees with him and often times in arguments he's the one who backs down and changes his opinions. Like in Fate he drops his "Saber ure a gurl" when he realizes he's just being selfish.

Ability-wise, he's all over the place. He's kind of overpowered, but at the same time he's kind of fragile. Thematically he's the underdog, though.

I have no idea of what any of this means.

...

He's stupid

And like I said, they don't matter. Because you reload and Shirou defeats everyone in the end.
Half of those choices are artifical/random/unpredictable anyway.

I know the mechanics behind it and that's not what I was asking

Since when is HE in control of the process? The WORLD can't tell them apart, Shirou should have 0 impact.
And while you might not have a problem with it, I do. I have a problem that a 1% chance even exist.
He defeated BERSERKER and GILGAMESH FFS!

Even with the 4/5th back in, he's still shit. A typical shonen self-insert power fantasy, only stupider.

A proper story with a hero death continues after the hero dies. It doesn't just .."end".
Either way, you keep talking about the VN structure, I keep talking about the setting.

He's a Sue alright. Not quite a Mary, but there are several kinds. Power Sue or BlackHole Sue.. or whatever the name of that trope was.

He knows how to repair cars, bikes, electronics and household appliances. He thinks quick on his feet and he can accurately judge situations.

His priorities are fucked up, but he's not stupid.

They matter as it's the reading experience that's important. And the choices are hardly random, their logic might be a bit strange but that has to do with Shirou. In Fate, you have to have him "stay in character", so going against his instincts gets him killed. The other half of the random is the fact that he's walking on a razor's edge, you criticize the lack of tension but there it is. Shirou survives because he's lucky; he could die at any moment because he's a complete amateur.

Since he's tracing the weapons, which he knows are perfectly suited for him and keeps drawing out the technique. Every projection of Kanshou and Bakuya in UBW gives him a boost in skill. The anime had that "catching up to you" line, but I'm not sure if it was in the VN. But for example, in HF when Shirou tries on one-on-one Saber, he takes out Kanshou and Bakuya to draw on them despite already having Archer's arm on. There's also a Character Material note in Archer's profile about how he can appropriate combat skill from his swords.

Many-World Interpretation huzzah!

Highly situational and lucky as shit. Though Shirou played Gil like a fiddle. He aggroed and then calm down Gil with sending Saber off and then played on his pride and arrogance in the fight, along with the mental unbalancing of breaking precious treasures to keep Gil from getting his shit together.

Like I said, he's an analysis, ode to and refutation of a shounen hero. I hate to use the phrase, but "too deep for you"?

You're talking about dead ends? Well, that's just VN mechanics and besides it's about Shirou, as he's the main narrator. Though endings do explicitly go on even when Shirou dies. In UBW Shirou can be mercy killed by Rin after the war ends, be killed by Shirou and in HF Shirou dies to free Sakura, for example.

Please clarify.

Well, maybe. But that still doesn't make him a bad character. Pretty much everyone is a Sue, though. How did that saying go… "When everyone is special, no one is"? Kinda like that.

No. Fuck that shit.

I'll expand on this, just because. He's a deconstruction and reconstruction of the "A typical shonen self-insert power fantasy, only stupider".

He's first introduced and his goals and ideals are set up: he wants to save everyone and become a hero of justice. At first, this seems infantile and stupid, because it is childish. But then when you notice some of his character patterns, it becomes obvious that something's not quite right with him; when he gets killed by Lancer and resurrected, his first action upon waking up is to clean away the bloody mess he left. When Saber is in danger, he throws himself in harms way without a second thought. His magic involves copious amount of self-mutilation for no real gain.

And so on. So the reader should get curious about him, despite the childish basic premise as a character. Then when we get into late Fate and UBW territory, it's starts exploring exactly what it would take to make a character like that; a person who places everyone else before him and lives only for an ideal that he knows he can't actually fulfill.

Then in HF it's finally taken all apart, as being a Hero of Justice is a hypocritical and selfish ideal that is fundamentally incompatible with reality, so we see this character who was built up as 100% SUPERHERO break down and slowly turn back into a human being. It's incidentally also the only route where Shirou afraid for his own life consistently. In UBW, faced with Rider who will horribly kill him, Shirou laughs and fights like an automaton. In HF, Shirou having gained something like a selfish wish of his own, is afraid to face his enemies because he doesn't want to die.

Shirou is basically Nietzsche's Ubermensch, the Tin Man from Oz and Sisyphys from Greek mythology all rolled up into one character.

Also, here's a literary comparative analysis with Albert Camus' The Myth of Sisyphus, written by some user:
pastebin.com/v6emFjmu

No fucking shit, that is what I mean when I said "It is for all practical purposes limitless" she's never going to run out with any conventional use therefore for all practical purposes it is limitless.

Magic Circuits determines output, I'm beginning to think you don't even know what the word output even means.

This is Jack The Ripper according to the Fate series.

say what you will but the series sure has a lasting quality

also Im gay for Archer

MY SIDES!
They go as far as making jack the ripper a gothic loli girl with bleached hair wearing fetish outfit holding inpractical knife.
God damn, they are not even hiding their sexual hunger.

Right on, bro.

Iirc she's supposed to be the amalgamation of all the children who were abandoned by the whores in London, thus their connection to the killings.

Or something, I personally find her pretty shitty.

This is the Roman Emperor Nero according to the Fate series.

This is Attila the Hun.

Fucking FGO.

...

I don't remember where the amalgation part came from. I just remember hearing that she was just one of the many abandoned street children of the prostitutes of London and she murdered women because she wanted a mother. Whatever. The thing that makes her shitty to me is that it completely ignores the parts where Jack would taunt the police by sending them pieces of his victims.

The Fate autism got triggered.

Either way this is good

I'm not even surprised she's a girl.

I'm surprised she's neither an Archer nor a Rider

Why does she have a GN Sword V as a weapon?

Japaneese autism at its finest.

retard pen sword

This is William Shakespeare according to the Fate series.

Well, Lucky Trips, I'd hesitate to say that the gameplay in Extra is better than the no-gameplay of the original VN, but I WILL say that the story is much better.

It's not only because it's got a sort-of blank slate protagonist which is YOU, but far more so because of these two right here.

See, in F/SN the story was small and stayed small and had a LOT of plot holes in it regarding the nature of the real world outside of these magi fight events and more. That's all done away with in this game which takes place on the moon. More importantly, the narrative of F/SN was a mess and the rules of the universe were made to be broken worse and worse with each progressive route. Sure certain characterizations and plot threads shined, but it was an inconsistent trainwreck.

The story of Extra is more internally consistent and is billed more as a mystery story if you can believe it. The protagonist has amnesia and all he can remember is a great fire (they even use one of the images of Shirou's memory in the original VN, the one with the rainfall) but nothing else. He's yet another fish out-of-water protagonist but one which has no one to lean on except for his/her Servant.

There are moments when the rules are broken in Extra's story, but they are broken in such a way that makes sense. It's not "DUDE IS SUPER MARTIAL ARTIST AND MAGICAL SO HE CAN STAND UP TO A SERVANT DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE ALREADY SAID NO HUMAN CAN STAND UP TO A SERVANT" ass-pulls but rather literally breaking the coding of the system, and you know what? It genuinely has severe consequences! Why? Because the rules are broken!

As for the mystery aspect, it's less about "what's up with this Holy Grail thing ay?" and more "What is happening around me?"

Leo and Rin are the only two in the whole game who know what is going on back on earth and their dynamic works wonders for the story. While you will fight kooky Masters as enemies and equally kooky servants, the main storyline isn't about the Holy Grail War but rather about stopping a globalist oligarchy which already holds totalitarian control of most of the world from getting the power of a god. You don't realize this until you continue on and learn more as the story continues and as your matches continue.

Ultimately without spoiling much else for you just take it to mean that the characters (Servants included) and story are far more compelling in Extra than in F/SN. TO be fair, I never played through Heaven's Feel simply because I know the major plot points of it and don't feel like putting myself through that mess. Fate/EXTRA CCC is said to be the best of the franchise, but I can't say.

I never liked the idea of taking the characters of a good plot and then repurposing them for another plot entirely; it ruins a lot of what made them and the original story so good. THough at least in Extra CCC it's explicitly stated to be an alternate reality from original Extra so that's fine, unlike F/SN where the canonical route has to be Heaven's Feel or else nothing really changes for the better, ie Sakura Worms

I should also say that Nasu finally learned how to give us multiple perspectives on characters without relying on additional alternate story routes to do it. But maybe that was just a thing for F/SN I don't know

You learn a lot about the characters in completion, your choices matter, and it's just a better narrative experience all around, one which is sadly shackled to horrible gameplay and worse GRINDING than any .Hack title I've ever seen. It's atrocious.

The one thing I didn't like was the final boss and the asspull regarding him and his servant, though at least they foreshadowed this quite a bit a few times earlier on (hamfistedly, I'd say). The game really should have ended with Leo as the final boss as that was what the whole game was building to.

OH! And also, you know how the whole "Servant Identity" thing was brought up in F/SN and then NEVER utilized to any relevant effect ever again? Nasu actually managed to make that part of the game's story and gameplay, where you have to do a bit of legwork before the next match to discover your enemy Servant's identity, and when you do a bit more of their command points are shown (and more story is gleaned) as a reward for the effort.

That's always been the most interesting aspect of the Fate wars and yet they never do anything with it. It's still not utilized the best at all in Extra but they at least did SOMETHING with it.

wait, what?

Hey, that's not too bad. It's like an anime rendition of what Shakespeare sorta looked like.

This is the president of the United States of America

...

easy access

10/10 would vote.

It's by design!

Who is the best servant and why is it mother fucking Ultra-Hitler?

Shakespeare is a really interesting character in the Fate universe.

He's a Caster class that literally has no magic power other than imbuing weapons with fake titles that boost their rank. He can also escape from any situation.

Honestly, I never had any difficulty in seeing Shirou as a real person either. Definitely not as a Mary Sue and frankly I have no idea how you got him up to 79 points on the online test, as I couldn't get him over 10 points once you take the negative modifiers into account.

But maybe I'm just as fucked up as he is. I don't know.

I figured I'd redo the test, except…
NOPE

In general, I wish people on Holla Forums would stop the overuse of the term Mary Sue. It's almost as lazy of a categorization as you can get and nobody even uses the proper definition anymore. Hell, the use of Mary Sue to refer to anything other than a character in fanfiction is inappropriate under a strictly purist definition of the term. Most people who use the damn term probably don't even know the connection between the name and Star Trek.

But more than that: While many leftists love creating fiction filled with self-inserts and similar shit, not all of them become writers. The ones who don't instead fall into the TV Tropes browsing type more often than not: smug pricks who believe they have achieved literary mastery, and who think being able to predict the plot of a TV show or movie makes them superior to others. They're still lefties, but they're a different type. They love to simplify things.

That's what generally happens with the Mary Sue term. While there are cases of it being properly applied, most of the time, a character is simply either badly written character. In other cases, there is nothing wrong with them: they just happened to either go over the person's head, or the person just didn't like them.

This goes pretty hard into blogpost territory:

I liked Shirou, because I related to his ideal. I enjoyed Unlimited Blade Works, because of what it represented in terms of holding onto that ideal. But I absolutely loved Heaven's Feel, because I felt it reflected many of the exact same feelings I had to deal with, and made me question what will happen in the future. I still do. Will I get through commencement and continue to by death bed focused on my goals? Or will I eventually find the right girl and have the settled life of a normalfag? Something else?

I imagine that all of this is why so many people seem to like Archer. He's the guy who followed everything to the absolute end, and eventually came to grips with reality. He's a lot like what the average Holla Forums poster claims to be - someone who wants something beautiful, but who has been battered down so much by reality and a culture of cynicism that they believe the only way to accomplish that would involve mass slaughters and a complete abandonment of typical human morals. Archer wanted a world where nobody had to cry, but what did he get? Nothing but more death.

I don't know. Maybe I'm still too naive. I remember by the time I graduated, most of my friends and class-mates were either blissfully ignorant, or completely convinced that the world was beyond fucked. I just can't stop myself from being idealistic. And so I found F/SN really hit hard for me.

I like Kara No Kyoukai as a story more, though.

Sabre a shit.
Caster best girl.

...

You lied to me OP.

Great writeup, man. I'm glad to finally have someone explain to me why any sane person would bother with Extra. Your points make a lot of sense.
Your spoilers about the story definitely make it sound more interesting than I ever found it. I just thought the blank slate protagonist plus the completely disconnected world removed all stakes from the story and reduced it to nothing more than an excuse plot to fight a bunch of Servants, which wasn't helped at all by the awful character designs. Still, I played a nice chunk of the game (up to Alice iirc), and never really discovered any of that. Maybe I scratched the surface of it, but it's too long ago for me to really remember now, honestly. So I do have to question how effective any of that was. I also might have just been bitter from having to put up with the fucking gameplay.
I will say that I think F/SN is better than you give it credit for when you say it's about "what's up with this Holy Grail thing ay?". The fascinating part of Fate, to me, was always how thematically sound it was. Not deep, but it used every tool it had to push a central idea, and I find that admirable. The plot was full of holes and pacing issues and Nasu seemed to only establish rules for the sake of breaking them later, but all of the elements existed to build this great conflict of ideals and motives between characters. By all the elements I mean the central mechanics like how Servants and Shirou's magic work, as well as many of the isolated events in the story. It's late and I don't think I have the time or mental focus to really do it justice, but two seconds in Google did grant me a writeup I very much approve of, if you're interested: blog.eternicity.net/2009/11/23/fatestay-night-in-review-symbols-and-motifs-tying-the-thematic-threads/
Extra had some kind of theme about personal identity and discovering who you are or something, because the main character has no memory and there's fuck all else you can do with that. This has been done to death. Nothing in the workings of the world seemed to support this, except maybe the reinforced importance of a Servant's identity. Even if there is a larger and more intricate plot to discover, it probably won't do much for me if that's the extent of the conflict the protag has to overcome and it doesn't consistently connect with events happening around him/her.
Not that there's no value to a world that's better constructed from a mechanical point of view and has a deeper level of intrigue involving the powers behind the scenes. I really do appreciate having a better understanding of why someone would prefer Extra to SN. Thanks, user. There is now a non-zero but still pretty low chance of me reading Extra with cheats, treating it like a VN.

...

Precisely. He is rewarded for sticking to his absurd ways.

Also, HF route sucks, since Shirou just does a sudden 180° and goes "fuck the world".

Good things about the whole FSN universe:
- Archer
- Broskandar
- Gil (from Zero, the one with more personality)
- Both Lancers
- The basic premise behind the Holy Grail Wars and Servants
- Zero

Everything else pretty much sucks. They keep introducing stranger and stranger plot elements, servants, rules (and then break or ignore them), even new BS "classes".
You have a dozen Saber clones, rainbow Attila, the "lighting lion" Benjamin Franklin, etc… And ever more fucked up plot.
It's beyond saving anymore.
It's gone to Shittopolis

...

Everything yo wrote sounds like shit.
why would a small plot be bad? Do you consider a "save the universe" story superior to "save the planet" simply by virtue of scale?
And you think breaking the rule is being creative and good?
EXTRA is weaboo trash

In general, I wish people on Holla Forums would stop the overuse of the term Mary Sue. It's almost as lazy of a categorization as you can get and nobody even uses the proper definition anymore. Hell, the use of Mary Sue to refer to anything other than a character in fanfiction is inappropriate under a strictly purist definition of the term. Most people who use the damn term probably don't even know the connection between the name and Star Trek.

No, you gigantic retard. It's not. A Sue is a character type. A trope. As such it can appear in ANY work of fiction.
The only people who want to remove the use of the term from regular fiction are hack writers who write like shit.

Saber a shit.
SHIT.
SHIT

Seibah is good.

...

Did you really expected something else from the second gayest Roman emperor in history?

Words mean what people think what they mean, that's how language changes with usage. So people think that Shirou's a Mary Sue or whatever, it doesn't really mean anything most of the time.

But I find that my experience with FSN mirrors yours spookily. I was pretty much an edgelord going in, but by the time UBW rolled in I realized that I quite like Shirou because that childhood ideal of being a good person or a hero is something admirable, even if I'd forgotten that. HF was similarly a weird experience since I'd been against Shirou's ideal at first and then grown to like it, and now had to see the opposite case again.

I can understand why a lot of people dislike HF, because depending on the day, I'm not sure which way I would truly go.

I'd never thought about Archer in Holla Forums terms, but that's eerily fitting.

Go die in a fire.

I wish King Arthur would come back and remove all the invaders. That includes the anglo-saxon scum.

Are you trying to derail into politics? This is Holla Forums, what you posted has no value.

...

Character designs sort-of got better as things went on, or at least the artwork certainly did. Arco Wada, the artist for Extra, was pretty new when she did Extra if I recall. You can tell the massive difference from Extra to CCC and then to Extella.

The designs themselves? Well, remember that most of the Fate universe Servant designs, like Atilla, are directly lifted from Guest Artist appearences for Nasu's roleplaying things. Rainbow Atilla, for example, was designed by Huke, the artist for Black Rock Shooter and Steigns;Gate, hence why Atilla is so multi-colored; in Huke's artstyle it actually looks dazzling instead of stupid.

I will admit that they went overboard by essentially gender-swapping when convenient and sticking to real figures of history instead of myth and legend. Nero makes for a great character…but not as Nero. I'm sure Atilla will be utterly unlike the real Atilla as well.

Sure, thanks!

Oh, it does actually.
See, each character (apart from the Berserker boss, Alice and Shinji) is a part of the struggle for the grail either for or against the Harways. You don't get this immediately but through hints dropped here and there in small scenes where your next foe is interacting with Leo or Rin.

Shinji was just a renown gamer who wanted fame and didn't realize the severity of this contest, and this annoyed Rin because she actually knows what's going on.

The Old guy, the knightly man with the archer servant, was actually a famous ex-operative for the British crown's secret service who was called back by the Queen to stop the Harways from obtaining the Grail, but because of his sentimentality and desire to be the knight he never could be, he lost.
This is why he was paired with Archer Robin Hood, because he himself was once an MI5 type assassin

The creepy guy with the frilled black coat? He's actually an assassin working for the Harways to ensure Leo gets the Grail. He was an orphan raised assassin by the Harway family and came to love Leo's mother like his own while Leo was groomed from birth to be the God King of the world. When you fight him you get a chance to assert that the assassin only ever really wanted love, which throws him off pre-fight. After the fight he literally breaks the code of the Moon Cell and ejects himself from the game before he dies, only to come back half-dead with his ressurrected and now Berserk servant. During this fight you learn more about him, how he was raised and literally given the order to die for Leo and kill everyone else in Leo's way…even Leo's mother, who needed to die in order for the family claim to rest securly and solely on Leo so no one else could claim blood rights to the rule of the Harway family. Assassin just wanted to feel that compassion one last time, which was what he was going to wish for if he could get the Grail without fighting Leo, but the promise he made to Leo's mother was that he would make sure her beloved son stayed safe.

Rin, of course, is one semi-famous member of an underground rebellion in the Harway territory. She made her way to the Sahara to hook up to some pod thing (like others) to access the Grail and stop Harway's plans. You get a choice to use one of your command seals to break the code of the Moon Cell and save her but end up having to sacrifice your wish at the end of the game to send her back safely, since she was technically stricken from the tournament and would otherwise be erased/killed by the Moon Cell once everything was over.

Rani is…a third element, part of an underground Super Science organization that's up to it's own plot and ends.

Twice Pieceman is a cloned AI figment of a cloned AI figment of a etc. which was a copy of the original world renown Twice Pieceman, leading neruoscientist and doctor who sought to bring an end to war. The Harway Family's climb to near-global power led to WWIII which essentially drove Pieceman insane before he died. In the Moon Cell, his AI copy (there is an AI copy of all human beings on Earth in the Moon Cell) somehow awoke to sentience and sought to participate in the Holy Grail War but could not because if it did, and won, then it would be dissolved in the…moon juice?…of the central server of the Moon Cell aka the Holy Grail.

So he initiated a new Holy Grail War from within the Moon Cell and guided/watched all the participants until only one remained, whom he would force to grant his wish–his wish being to create more war.

…Yeah, see Pieceman hated war but also saw, just before WWIII, the global stagnation of a content and lethargic human race. Once WWIII broke out everyone was helping each other, improving things, rebuilding things, etc. So, since he went NUTS on his deathbed, he saw that war made men move whereas peace stagnated men. So, more war! Forever! Or something. Like I said, the final boss should have just been Leo, Pieceman is dumb.

Finally you reach the Moon Cell after killing Buddha (no really) and you meet your final fate. See, Pieceman was an AI copy of a real person which awoke so it could not enter the Moon Cell's central server and survive because the Moon Cell would regard it as junk data to be deleted. Thing is, Pieceman didn't realize what YOU realized along with Rin and your Servant halfway through the game: YOU ARE NOT HUMAN

You are actually an AI copy, like Pieceman, who somehow awoke to sentience again due to the sudden running of countless processes within the Moon Cell for the new Holy Grail War. It's a major turning point and lots of doubt occur, but Rin is pretty helpful despite her…Rin-ness. Your Servant is also very helpful. Your freaking out is interuppted by the need to continue on or..well..die, and so you do until you reach Leo, beat him, and end up with Twice Pieceman as the final fight together with Rin and your Servant.

In the end, you manage to send Rin back to Earth in her real body (blond, blue eye) and send her the locations to your real self, who is in cryogenic stasis for a neural degenerative disease which could not be cured a LONG time ago. You and your Servant then dissolve within the Moon Cell together….or that would be the case, but you instead ended up slipping up part of your Holy Grail wish, accidentally splitting reality in two: enter Fate/Extra CCC, the alternate reality Extra timeline which occurs at the same time as Extra. End.

OH WAIT A MINUTE I REMEMBER NOW

Twice Pieceman actually DID manage to enter the Moon Cell once, or rather he managed to alter the Moon Cell in such a way as to grant his wish anyway without winning the Holy Grail War tournament.

He wished for WORLD PEACE

THAT was when the Harway family came onto the scene, rising from a modest globalist powerhouse to becoming the totalitarian oligarchy that swallowed most of the known world under its thrall.

I got the timeline mixed up. Twice Pieceman died when YOU got hit long ago, during that great fire incident which was a massive bombing and viral dropping from terrorist forces.

So basically

Twice is an idiot.

All of that plot..is Kiungdom Hearts/ Final Fantasy level of retarded.

WHY?

Why must everything that I still have some fond memories of be ruined?
Why can't franchises die with dignity, but are instead turned onto drugged, run-down tranie hookers that slowly waste away?

I want this world to end.

So it's the SRW A villains?

Nasu doesn't care about his western fans he only cares about his Japanese fans, if they want more Fate then he'll give them more Fate

After seeing Black (Alter) become a Lancer (with HUGE boobs), NP Rhongominiad; I almost wonder about White (Lily) being a Caster (the days of apprenticeship under Merlin), NP Carnwenhan.

Good job proving my point. The origin of the word Mary Sue dates back to a reference to a Star Trek parody fanfic which served to highlight the ridiculousness of a number of self-inserts which writers (generally female) would right. The essential, purist definition of the word refers to a character, usually female, in a fan-fic story, who is self-inserted into the story in order, generally in order to get together with canon character, usually male, who the author wishes she could fuck.

Over time, the term has evolved to refer to any character who exists as a way of wish-fulfillment for the author. The character may be powerful or powerless, may be attractive or unattractive, may not even get with the guy. But as a general rule, they will be somewhat powerful or acquire powers over the course of story, attractive or at least attractive to the main love interest, and wind up with the love interest the author wishes she was with.

It has a very specific terminology. Not that anyone who uses the term "trope" could understand that, or possibly understand the more appropriate terms: "wish-fulfillment", "self-insert", and "shitty fucking character", all of which are different terms combined together to form what is properly referred to as a "Mary Sue".

Stop giving them ideas, faggot.

To be fair, his western fans certainly seem more prone to pirating the content. With good reason, of course - it's certainly not easy to legally acquire most Type-Moon content with translations in the west.

It was a parody? Man, I'm jaded as fuck, I thought Mary Sue Picard was a serious thing.

it's literally impossible to get with out pirating

To be fair, the game was a mess>>9644589

The pure definition of Mary Sue is a character of the fanfic writer's creation inserted into the universe that systematically grinds the plot of said canon to a halt. They were famed for lawding romantic plots with lead or favored canon characters, but this really wasn't a focus. More that absolutely everything about the canon story, narrative, and development would stop to a slow crawl as all parties focused entirely on the Sue, despite it making no sense that it did so.

You mean atrophied. Loss of meaning is atrophy. New or improved purpose is evolution. Most clictsclicks that throw around Mary Sue do so as a catchphrase or shorthand for some entirely different and equally vague definition & context. Functionally, that lack of thought is one of the reasons sites like TVTropes is pure, unadulterated poison to the mind.

You can nab copies on almost any internet store outlet. Just that it's second-hand and likely priced jacked to all hell.

You mean to say "there is no feasible way to get a first-hand retail copy anymore". Which is actually demonstrably false, as you can buy both visual novels (Fate/Stay Night & Fate/Hollow Ataraxia) off of the PSN Japanese store for your PSTV or PSVita.

Long-past time to start learning.

so literally impossible

But can I play as Rider from Fate/Zero?

No they said no servants who debuted in Zero

Nips feel threatened by Iskander's overwhelming manliness, so they only have him as a little boy outside of FZ.

nips have such shit taste

Pretty much, though MAN would the ending of Extra have been SO GOOD if you could pit your servant against a giant mecha.

Why hasn't Nasu done this yet?

Nigger what?

"I'M ALREADY HALF XEHONORT!"
is beyond the most mind-meltingly ridiculous plot advancement in the history of JRPGs.

Besides, I told you all that Twice Pieceman was the worst part of Extra. He's the Junko AI of Extra. Everything else about Extra is fantastic (aside from the """combat""" )

They added Iskander to F/GO, as a limited Servant. I spent 120 quartz on that son of a bitch, too, but didn't get shit. But I refuse to pay money to a F2P video game.

It's pretty much the opposite of what is considered manly here. Big muscled men like F/Z Iskander is pretty much considered gay, while girly athletic men are "manly". Meanwhile being a girly man here makes you a faggot and women masturbate to ripped studs on the cover of their trashy smut.

I've never thought of muscles as anything but blazingly homosexual.

Strange. I always thought strong men were portrayed as stupid bad guys in the west. With most white men thinking muscles are gay. While nips have big strong men as main characters like Guts and Kenshiro, and tons of shit like DBZ

Are all the 'Fate/' games about the Holy Grail War with different protagonists/settings?

Which ones are the best?
I've seen the original Fate/Stay Night anime and Unlimited Blade Works as well as one of the movies.

What is He-Man?

Read the VN.