So this topic has no doubt been hashed over to death and back

Its because bethesda isnt the best at writing plots, as well as fallout 4 being rushed to completion. And rumours have said that they took guys off of fallout 4 to help the TES online mmo. So odds are Fallout 4 was understaffed while being overworked. In the end Fallout 4 is a cash cow to Bethesda, like Doom and the others. The only series they probably care any amount about is the Elder Scrolls.

You might as well just have said I'M A GIANT SHILL

Fallout 4 and all it's expansion/DLC

well shit guess some people just never learn
bethesda can't write for shit and its a proven fact

I dont see why you have to be so rude. It's not like having an opposing viewpoint with someone means you need to shove your opinion down their throat and call them a cunt.

>>>/reddit/

spoiler that disgusting shit

you do

Why would I when it triggers you so much?

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IS this the most up-to-date edition?

source plz? cannot find it anywhere.

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They're basically the West Coast Brotherhood before Lyons humanitary bullshit.

Obsidian is hardly any better with their unsurprising twists.

Yeah. For a while I really preferred Midwestern dudes, but then I found out (in game) that they actually enrolled ghouls and other non-humans so fuck that.

...

You haven't payed much attention, have you ? Oh, wait, no, you just didn't play the damn game.

So what about the current east coast brotherhood?
They've kept the lyons idea of recruiting outsiders but gone back to a more pre-brotherhood stance on everything else.
With the exception of hiding in a bunker all the time rather than getting out there and saving humanity.

I haven't played FO4 so I don't know how the BoS are in there, but the Lyons chapter was a fucking atrocity, both from IC and OOC perspectives.

Wrong!

I personally felt the lyons chapter made some element of sense when taken in the wider context of their distance from the west coast brotherhood and its social reinforcement of their existing beliefs, the shit they faced on their journey and the rapid depletion of their numbers courtesy of the capital wastelands super mutants.

Even without going out looking for them the super mutants were fucking everywhere. So sooner or later they'd have to let in outsiders or die.

The funny thing is that the capital wasteland brotherhood took on many of the roles of a government or national army without taking power.
Repeating the common brotherhood mistake of being in the perfect position to become the new government/rulers but failing to capitalise on it every fucking time.

FO4 Brotherhood is run by the Maxson child from F3.
He returned the brotherhood to a lot of its traditions but discarded other ones he felt were no longer useful or relevant.
Chains that bind went out the window because its inefficient, kept recruiting wastelanders because an army needs manpower but stopped being overtly helpful without compensation.

He refocused the brotherhood on the acquisition of technology but also added in the elimination of threats to humanity.
Hence why they go all the way to the commonwealth to kill the institute. Because it along with its synths are a threat to humanity.

He also keeps the "kill supermutants" thing going. And is quite happy to make the brotherhood helpful to wastelanders but always expects something in return. Like lower prices and/or free stuff from wasteland merchants in exchange for having some broterhood troops fly around in vertibirds shooting up raiders.

I dunno nigga, I found the FO3 brotherhood just straight shit

oocly it's retarded as well

Generally, everything Bethesda does with Fallout gives me this impression: They did in fact play the original games, at least the lead designers. However, they didn't really pay too much attention and they probably never finished it, most likely just spent several hours on mechanics and main plot points then said "yeah, I got it". Everything they do feels as if they didn't understand or more likely didn't really care about the lore elements and moral ambiguity.

I get the impression that the divergence Lyons took the brotherhood down was born in the Pitt.

That place was pretty much everything the brotherhood hated. A mutant infested radioactive monument to mankinds hubris.
But they went in and did something about and at the end came out with a bunch of orphaned kids who weren't mutant freaks.
And really this will have been the first time any of them will have done anything that seemed to achieve any tangible results beyond new toys to occupy the scribes. They got hooked on that and wanted more.
So by the time they hit the capital wasteland they were all raring to get shit done and actually accomplish something meaningful.

So once they saw all those super mutants making life shit for everyone their general response was "FUCK YES! A DRAGON IN NEED OF SLAYING!"
Something we see Maxson maintain somewhat in his reign. He goes out looking for dragons to slay. Desiring that feeling of having done something good for humanity.

As for the divergence from the isolationism standard to the brotherhood.
That went out the window the second they made their trek across the former USA.
There is no way they could carry enough supplies for the entire journey or maintain a constant pace.
They would have had to constantly stop to acquire supplies from sources ranging from pre-war military caches to current settlements.
As a result they'll have had extensive contact with outsiders during this journey.

And the non-brotherhood initiates? Army needs manpower. Can't do shit without feet to go in those boots.

On the subject of three dawg though. Seems it was one of those mutually beneficial relationships.
They got a place to use as a safe house/fortified position and someone to encourage the locals to like them (hearts & minds yo) and he got protection. It's a pretty easy relationship to figure out. The guy broadcasts pro-brotherhood propaganda almost constantly.

Ultimately no organisation stays static forever.
As we've seen the east coast brotherhood has gone through two considerable changes in its recent history. Clearly making up for lost time since the west coast brotherhood never changed and is practically dead at this point.

I want a webm of that

It's totally over-the-top though. Also, especially for an organization as insulated as the Brotherhood, they wouldn't just "feel good" about saving some random tribal kids, they would have no reason to.

Think slavery and the Roman Empire. We, today's people, find it hard to imagine that everyone would casually treat slaves as furniture. But in that period, it was hard to imagine treating slaves as not furniture. It's all about how you culturally educate younger generations.

An organization as insulated as the Brotherhood wouldn't really see tribals as equals (as evident in almost all games involving the BoS). So saving tribal children isn't a "hooo, we're all good now" it's more like a positive shrug, certainly not enough to say "hey, you know everything everyone I know including me has been taught forever? well fuck that". Again, they don't really give a shit about the local populace. They're filthy tribals, as long as they stay out of the way they can sit in their mud hovels.

A much better way of showing ideological divergence was shown with the Midwestern, where they have a slow drift. You don't just do a 180 turn on ANYTHING. Hitler's Germany didn't become Nazi over night. Feudalism wasn't created one day and implemented in the next.

FO3 Brotherhood is just poorly understood by the writers, only to be then poorly written.

That reminds me of the way they treat you in the first fallout, they send you to the glow assuming you won't come back as a joke.

"Hey, some of our guys, well equipped with plenty of resources, went and got themselves killed. Go get their stuff for us *snicker*"

"Oh shit, you're back? And you got the stuff? Well shit, we fucked up… lemme go talk to someone who can actually deal with this."

Wow, even though I hate this game I already debunked most of the retardation of this image which shows that either the creator didn't understand what they had typed or were purposely spouting shit.

The only thing you can really know is that it's factually incorrect and doesn't even source some of it's shit.

True but the Pitt comes towards the end of their trek across the USA.

A journey that will have taken a year or two at the minimum considering the slow pace they'll have had along with the frequent stops and diversions.

A year or two with minimal reinforcement of their beliefs and a practical need to associate with outsiders near constantly in direct opposition to their existing beliefs.
There's a holotape recording in F4 actually that shows an ideological shift in a single brotherhood member.
At the start of the airships journey she thought that Lyons still had a lot of good points, but over the course of the journey they come across old world cities, factories and so on all full of super mutants, ghouls and other assorted freaks. All of these marvels of the pre-war era no longer benefitting or being used by humanity. Just full of freaks and monsters.
By the end of the journey she states her ideological worldview has shifted considerably to be much closer to the current leaderships. Namely the "fuck super mutants, fuck ghouls, fuck all this shit. Protect humanity from itself. Unchecked technology bad" elements.

A relatively short journey by airship from the capital wasteland to the commonwealth did that. Admittedly to someone whose ideological grounding in the brotherhoods beliefs is no doubt a lot weaker.
But imagine what that long journey from the west could do. The cognitive dissonance induced by the need to interact with outsiders would do wonders in regards to unsettling their existing beliefs.

It's FO4, who gives a shit, honestly?

The institutes goals are fairly abstract. Their basic goal is destroy\hide any knowledge of pre-war America in order to create their idea of a utopian society.

It's the reason why they kicked the ghouls out of Diamond City, since most of them are from before the war and why they have Synths at various locations to which have intact knowledge.

This is obviously a terrible way of doing things, but considering they're a culture of nerds and autists who haven't left a basement in 200 years, it sort of makes sense.

Now, don't get me wrong, I actually understand WHY Betheshit did what they did in FO3.

If you took BoS, gave them the original ideology, made the player start as an outsider and stuck with the established lore 100% you'd get this:

Now, it's not like you can't go around this. Any half-decent writer or plot designer can think of a multitude of ways to give the player a lore-friendly ability to interact with this "cool" faction, either by them sending you to insanely dangerous missions they expect you to die on, or by doing them a HUGE favour.

However, in FO3 the writers weren't that good or interested enough, so they just slapped on "mary sues of the wasteland" and that's that.

Really?

So why the Gen 3 synths? At least in such numbers.
Are they trying to replace humanity? Some kinda fresh start?

The main purpose I've gathered from model 3 Synths is to make replacing people in power or influence in the wasteland easier in order to exert control.

So it would allow policies and educational models in areas with them to be biased in their favor.

But we don't really see them do that or even hear of them doing it.
Diamond City's mayor doesn't try to shift a pro-institute direction or at least institute neutral/ambivalent position.
He instead just spies on diamond city and prevents investigation of people who go missing.

And the other Gen 3 infiltrators we see often have no real rhyme or reason to their activities.
But are probably related to experiments being conducted like the warwick family synth.

And on top of that why use them in such numbers inside the institute itself for menial labour and such?
The Gen 1 & 2 synths do the same jobs perfectly well. Without the issue of sometimes deciding they have free will and fuck slavery.

Which existed because ??????????????

Because ORCS!

Considering the Mayor is actually a Synth, the reason why he wouldn't, and by extension the Institute, go about a hardline positive perspective on themselves as it would blow his cover and make the people more paranoid.
That goes hand in hand with above, preventing people, since he was the who also kicked out the ghouls, since replicating them as a synth would be more work and it removes them as possible people of influence.

But are probably related to experiments being conducted like the warwick family synth.

Experiments seem like the most obvious option, as they're still likely perfecting their ability to copy people in order to replace them. So instead of possibly wasting the potential of copying someone important and the Synth not being up to par and gets destroyed, do it on people of less importance to get the teething problems out with minimal risk.

The Institute largely does consider all Synths, regardless of Gen, to be basically on the same level as a Mister Handy and Protectrons. So producing them for similiar purposes does make sense for them.
Various robots in Fallout have varying degrees of self-awareness, worst case scenario, they treat it like if another type of robot had similar perspectives, memory wipe or disposal.

Because Mariposa wasn't the only place experimenting with FEV.
Because what is peer review and multiple avenues of experimentation?

Hell the three populations of super mutants we've seen throughout the games are all distinct as well. Displaying clear differences that can be attributed to their population source and the differing strains of FEV used to make em.

The west coast ones are a pretty varied bunch but are generally the smartest super mutants out of the three.
What with being able to form an army, engage in research (in a few instances) and maintain a somewhat cohesive ideology.

The capital wasteland super mutants on the other hand are universally aggressive, violent and pretty stupid. But they're also bigger and their skin tone very different.
And unlike the west coast super mutants you get the behemoths who just won't stop growing.

Then the commonwealth super mutants are something of a middle ground between the two. More intelligent and cautious than their capital wasteland cousins (to an extent) but also smaller and less well built.
But still much less intelligent than the west coast super mutants as a whole. Even if they are able to understand words like hubris and concepts like racial supremacy.

One of the reasons though is that they're a staple of the series. Like power armour, the BoS and vaults. It wouldn't be fallout if you removed these elements.

Makes sense.
Still the way they push the Gen 3s and their idea of "mankind redefined" implies to me something far more sinister and extinction related.

I think the "Mankind Redefined" slogan goes more with the their idea, since people on the surface are destructive at best and animalistic at worst, they'll redefine the people in their image of how things should be.

Though even a few people in the Institute believe their reliance on synths may come to bite them in the ass.

Did you ever run into the personal synth that one guy has?
He replaced his dead wife with a synth. Tell me he ain't shagging it.
And his son? Thinks synths are people too.

That on its own is a bomb shell waiting to explode.

And that child synth. I mean why? WHY?

From all I gather the Institute are basically a bunch of Think Tank wannabes.

My best guess is that Father wanted to recreate the childhood he never really had, so he can live it vicariously.

You're not wrong. Fundementally they're similar, isolated scientists carrying on their original research and other projects. The major difference being the Institute is what the Think Tank would be if Mobius didn't intervene, and not being completely insane.

I got the impression the child synth was essentially his present to the player.
And that this was supposed to somehow be a good thing

It's probably a bit of both. To deal with lost time for two people than just himself. Either way that shit was kinda creepy.

It was pretty retarded.
Considering it was an eternal unaging child too.

I can guarantee it's going to make it into the next Fallout Bethseda makes, mark my words.

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Because synths are shit and whoever wrote them should be purged in atomic fire

Because Berthesda can't write worth shit, user.

Except that's not what the BoS did. They were hoarders. Basically, humanity wasn't smart enough to fuck around with tech, so their enlightened asses decided to fuck around with it. It's why they wouldn't just shoot at you the first time you see them. They'll even interact with you for shits and giggles by asking you to go on a suicide mission.

The second game has the Brotherhood follow the events of the Tribal fuckhead because he's the only one who actually manages to show up near 3 or 4 Brotherhood outposts and not completely fuck themselves up. They then ask him to go on a suicide mission.

But that would require you and Bethesda playing the first two games.

They're only a staple of the series because 1 had them as a plot point, and 2 takes place on the northern edge of 1. Bethesda's hack writing again.

If they'd not featured in 3 or 4 then I can bet you'd be whining about that.
Hell people are bitching that the enclave weren't in 4.

they don't understand humans and are willing to kill to fit in, many of them are also institute spies

while them being evil is debatable i would definitely kill someone that i know to be a synth

Yeah, if we're talking Far Harbor, DiMA tried again and again to create a synth settlement peacefully but the locals kept going full redneck on them.
Then he ran out of options and he decided that kill a single person in a position of political power and replace it with a version he made that would be more reasonable, and leave them be.
It's clear that he didn't enjoy doing it at all, and in his defense after he estabilished himself he did all he could to help the locals, creating the fog condensers and all that.

I'm not sure if he can be considered evil or good, mostly just a cornered animal that bit back and survived in the process.
For what it's worth, you have the option of keeping his synth settlement intact, but turning him in and making him pay for his crimes, if you're all about justice no matter what, that seems to be the most sensible course of action.

Overall DiMA is the best character in FO4 so far and sorta resembles the type of character you would meet in Morrowind in the old days.
I don't know who wrote him, but it was an isolated spark of decent writing in the sea of sub mediocrity that is FO4.

That's the overall thing with Fallout 4, there are glimmers of "Hey, that's not that bad.", but for every one of those there are dozens of either half-baked or simply ham fisted instances that override the good, be it gameplay or story.

Everything in it had potential to be decent, but Bethesda seems to be extremely good at going either halfway with things or just make them an afterthought.

personally i confronted him about the murder but kept it a secret as i saw the children of atom as the real threat were the children of atom

damn, forgot to check my typing, sorry for that

I let the children of atom blow themselves up.
I mean it's basically the best ending, they want division anyway, i gave them division.
Is it still murder if there's an entire cult of people that believe in happiness after death and preach it every day but they can't kill themselves because they don't have the keys to the closet full of poison, so i give them the keys and i'm like "go ahead"?

I mean that's exactly what they wanted and it's a crucial part of their religion, is that even murder…?

This synth is evil

Did you even play it?

How accurate was that anyway? I remember some people saying that wasn't what happened when the DLC leaked

Still it seems that by virtue of their very existence the synths present a continuous threat to humanity.

Dima was in a bad spot sure. His response? Kill a human and subvert their leadership.
Every time synths are involved this seems to happen.

Is it possible for synths to coexist with humans?
I think not.
Maxson is right. Kill all synths.

It was what happened.

M I D W E S T
I
D
B
E
S
T

I just finished Fallout Tactics though and I realized that Bethshit basically stole the midwest chapter's likeliness, made them into super white-knights, and called them the east coast.

And now the Midwest chapter is non-canon. Fuck you Bethesda for killing my all time favorite Fallout faction.

Didn't interplay consider tactics non-canon too?

Also whats the deal with the midwest power armour?

Because Bethesda can't handle anything outside of cartoonish saturday morning villains and giving "the bad guys" deeper characters than "I am a bad thing who does bad things!" boggles their collective, brightly coloured haired writing staffs' minds

My Tactics senior-paladins
Warrior best protag

I misclicked something, sorry

it's metal as fuck

...

Because Nick looks non human and saved some shit girl. Thats the only reason, no one ingame asks themselves if he aint a spy etc, no one.

because jews fear the machine.

I thought organic synths suffered radiation poisoning too?

Also I think that whole "you might be a synth" moment might have just been Dima having a one track mind.
Like Kasumi. She ain't a synth but Dima convinced her she was. Because Dima is thick and has synths on the brain.

Relevant

>stand up and walk away hahahaha
>it's just the truth
>now i am

Rip Tay

Because Bethesda can't write.

That should actually answer like 90% of your pathetic fanboy questions.

Oh god, that's fucking savage

I keep seeing this posted, is this some new thing all the young folk are saying?

my coworkers kid says it
how old ARE you exactly user?

If the BoS weren't in 3 or 4, then I'd be fine with that, considering the BoS are the descendents of some military guys from (iirc) Mariposa. There's little reason for them to have a presence all the way across the country when the only expedition that way got fucked to hell and back, and then made non-canon.

The outposts they have in 2 are single man things, and they get fucked in the ass by the NCR after 2.

Heil__
I ignored that due to the fact the MC is Prewar. Like I know the Institute is stupid beyond measures but making a copy of someone who could possibly open their hidey hole like a sardine can and not really stopping it is TOO stupid, even for them.

The MC can bring it up with Nick multiple times but it mostly as a joke so.

Yes it is. It's being used as a substitute of ruthless and makes leagues more sense then ratchet does to me.

I like Far harbor a good deal more then the base game since it shifts it's focus away from the gimmicky shit and is more just an RPG saddled with a piss poor RPG mechanic

They are not evil, they are machines: they do what's most effective.
Your brain has been brainwashed from birth to recognize certain things as "evil" even if they are beneficial, and others as "good" even if detrimental.
But robots don't go through 20 years of liberal propaganda, dude.

Please stop trying to make excuses for the story writers that turned the GECK into a genesis device because they couldn't get past the Temple of Tria-

Oh, Christ.

Thanks for letting us know, Todd.

You can't imagine the mental gymnastics that they do to justify Bethesda's shit writing.

Most awesome recent mod on nexus right now:
nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14786/?

Finally adds all those missing melee weapons i needed so much.

I don't care what you pathetic nerds say, I enjoy FO4 so far. It's not an RPG game, but still Bethesda's best game since Morrowind. The world design is objectively the absolute best among other fallouts, so much details and environmental storytelling. The combat is the best too. It just gets a bit boring after 60-70 hours of playtime because the quests suck dick and the enemies are just too easy. I wish they'd put more enemy variety.

You're right, I hate how Holla Forums is such an SJW hugbox just like NeoGAF. You can only have the right opinions or else. You must hate Total Warhammer despite it being the best TW game ever made. You must hate Overwatch despite it being the best shooter only eclipsed by DooM. And you must hate DooM because Bethesda.

I wanting for the time Bethesda stop with the front of a game company and just do what they really want to do and just sell the editor with assets packs. It the only thing They seem to do that half way decent anyways and if the people sing "Mods will fix it." Then have a game that is only made by the community must be as though Godd Howard blessed it himself.

Can someone riddle me this?

Whats the big idea with people being synths and not knowing that they are one?

I means how hard is to get an xray or show a knife in your arms to see all the electrodes come flooding out?

It another example of lazy game design. Bethesda could be asked to make a special model or AI behavior for "Gen 3" synths so they just explain it away with, "they are so life-like they can bleed and even die" going on to say, "They feel hunger and even need to sleep."

Something about bioengineering to make basically clones.

1/10

I just read that Brahmin can be synths too. What the institute plans to do with fucking Brahmin is a mystery Maybe to help the disguise of a synth spy posing as a trader or something but still just give them caps to buy a fucking cow..

I was just think though that since Gen 3 synths are basically flesh and blood over a metal skeleton couldn't settlements just set up a powerful magnet to try and detect them? But it could just be Bethesda sucks at writing and needs spoopy robits that could be anywhere to make the Institute look threatening..

If you watch them being made in the "synth factory" you'll see that they're pretty much just very very quickly made clones.

As for x-rays. Plausible but I doubt there's a lot of xray machines lying around in the falloutverse. Or many people who know how to operate them.
Plus the ones that are available are hoarded by settlement doctors and groups like the BoS who definitely won't be happy with losing all their film in a short time on non-medical shit.

The only thing you'd find in the gen 3 synths on an xray is the "synth component" which is probably just some fancy brain machine interface they use to program them.

Holla Forums can't handle different opinions.

yeah, no, kill self man.
Sage for shitpost & shit thread, check'em.

i would have done that if i knew it was possible, sadly i just replaced Tektus and that was it

How the East BoS would raise "an army" if the CW was basically a scorched fucking desert where vegetation only grows around a FEV-mutant tree? If we follow Bethesta stupid take, the region would have a very low demographic density because you know WASTELAND RADIATION NUCLEEAR RAAAIDERS! (which we don't have a clue how they reproduce so fast and what they raid since beside 200 year old food and scrap metal there is nothing of value).

Oh dear… reading about that the DLC
They… they rehashed they fucking Sierra Madre Cloud!