What of the following do you guys and girls think are p2w?

Do you think stashtabs in Path of Exile are pay2win? I dont because you can make alts to store items but they are useful if you play a lot

It's a shame that peoples expectations of the genre are so fucking low that that is what passes for good MMO design

True should have done that was too focused on making examples that i forgot that. Lets focus on the thread itself now

You can pay for advantages?
Yes => Pay to win
No => Not pay to win

4 is absolutely pay to win. Like that is clear cut.

1 is not at all.

The rest are in a strange middle zone. Where it affects performance, but in oblong ways that aren't exactly "give money, do more damage" sort of things.

I haven't played the game, but if you can buy an advantage then yes it's p2w. Those people who bought the stashtabs also can store stuff on alts too. So they still have more inventory space then you, an advantage paid for with real money.

I think it is hard and it different anons think different with p2w. Some dont card about grinding for heroes in LoL as they say you only need to be good with 3-5 heroes to get a good rank (diamond 1 and above) while others say that you need a high hero pool to be a top player because of counterpicks

*care sorry typo

MapleStory

If you're paying for a fucking advantage with real-world money then it's pay2win. There are no half-measures, other words, or sub-types; just implementations and design choices.

P2W, but its impact varies from game to game.

Grindwall-oriented P2W, can easily kill a game.

P2W, with varying impact, not usually an issue worth dropping a game over but never a good sign.

See 2.

P2W, but the playing field is leveled for wealthy and experienced players. Approach with caution.

P2W, but why bother?

P2W, but why bother?

P2W, but you don't get anything out of it.

What do you think about the f2p/buy2play model? Thinking about SMITE and Faeria where you can play for free but unlock all heroes (SMITE) or all cards (Faeria) for a onetime fee? Do you think it as a pay2win model where getting everything that matters are cheap or do you see it as a demo where you can grind for more stuff but with a fair buyeverythingthatmatters model?

HOL UP! HOL UP!

I just wanna come here to complain about a specific kind of freemium retardation, in single player games.
It's those free games that offer microtransactions to unlock things early, or to make the game easier with more powerful versions of the same weapon etc.

What I want to know is why the fuck these people think I would PAY to have less things to do in a game?
I have a bunch of objectives to accomplish to unlock all this stuff, and why would I chose to lose all of these objectives and challenges?

I'm not opposed to microtransactions, and I would support a freemium game, if they offered me something worth purchasing.

One game I recently played is MMX Hill Climb.
All the cars and courses are all unlockable through gameplay objectives, but they all also offer a price you can pay to unlock them anyway. Why would I pay to wipe these challenges off the board?
I wouls actually want MORE challenges. Give me more challenges, and maybe I would pay to have them, why does everyone do it backwards?

One game that does microtransactions right is Pinball Arcade.
The base game comes with one table for free; you want more tables , you gotta buy them.
If you're gonna be jewish and try ro wring me out for money, at least offer something I actually want to have.

All are pay2win

Anything that offers an in-game advantage is pay2win, otherwise it's a microtransaction
Any microtransaction weapon/armor/etc that is not purely cosmetic is also pay2win

Subscription MMOs that also let you play for free are debatable. If the free players aren't seperate from the paying members then it's technically pay2win

as much as i hate ASSFAGGOTS, League did it right
you got skins that do literally nothing
you got exp/ip boosts, champions
however none of those really change anything whether you bought them or not. you can only get them by playing the game aside from paying money. so sooner or later you're gonna get them anyways.and in this case, the rates aren't as outrageous like in hearthstone
you could easily just get from 1 to 30 without spending a single dollar and still have the champions you prefer to pay, + rune trees for them

That is just retarded and dumb. Who the fuck buys that?

The counter argument to that is IP boosts. You get more rune pages filled with IP boosts and it takes ages to fill one (i think 80 hours last time i played but that was season 3 dont know how it is now)

It's a slightly more complex issue, but in general I think you can narrow it down to a single choice, assuming none of the content/benefits can be traded, sold, etc, and that is: If I 'buy' the game, do I get all future content as well?

If I can purchase all gameplay content, and receive all future content, then yes it is a effectively a Buy2Play & Trial system.
If I'm not privy to all gameplay content upon purchase, or future content is not included, then it's just Pay2Win with a 60$ pricetag on a cash-shop bundle.

I like Heroes of the Storm better because while it do take longer to get a hero (WHY?) there are no stupid stuff like runes

Yes, you're paying to win faster. In games like Runescape where your level in a skill = direct power, this is a straight P2W. Also a money grab.

Same as above, plus the fact they fuck LoL's balance on purpose to make heroes OP/the "flavor of the month", it *is* P2W. Never played Heartstone, but this is the basic money grab - "avoid this pointlessly slow grinding for only 4.99!"

So, quality of life stuff? Not P2W UNLESS it lets you, for example, use more consumables/skills at the same time.

Classic P2W.

P2W, because they make the availability of their currency dependent on using iRL money for to buy it. If the economy doesn't work if no one buys the in-game currency, this is happening.

No idea how money would enter this equation. Making the RNG go in your favor/helping you to beat it? In any case, yes, it is P2W and the person buying it is really bad at vydia.

Same as above.

The sale of anything that is not a cosmetic for non free currency, exclusive or not.

dude archage is cheap ….

i said metin 2 because if you want to have bonus to your item it s
9€ per bonus (and it can fail) up to 4
5€ for the 5th (with 30% sucess rate)

now you have 5 bonus but you will need to reroll because 1st put bonus are bad .

and here you go
6€ per change
and man … you will have to change them many, many time

for one piece of equipment you spend around 40€ + ~20 =60+€ (5bonus)
+over 50 euro if you want good one

now you have your weapon ready ! it only cost you 100€ euro

now you just have to do the same with: head, hand, feet, chest, neclace, bracer and earings

hmm yea! about 800€ .
and that s just for the bonus, and you wont do that on a item not maxed (+9)

now i ask you:
do you really think there is person ready to spend over 800€ on just the equipment ?

yea, because you also have your skill to think of:
read one book each day (24h CD) unless you pay 16€ for 10 scroll who will when use: cancel the CD.

oh but don t worry: to go from master 1 to grand master (master 11) you ll have to read 155 books
(1 for m1=>2 5 for m5 =>m6 10 for m10=>grand master)

(BTW you only have 30% chance of sucess if it fail, try tomorow ;) )

unless you pay for this special item who give you 70% success rate on the next book you read.
item that you can only have in the cash shop with "recipe" (basicly you spend 500 cashs hop money, you receive 500 receipe point) and it cost 600 recipe point per unit. **meaning to have it would mean that you already spent 6€ in the cash shop)

so if you want to have ONE of your your skill at grand master (still nto the higher level but … well)
(without counting IG money for books)

320+€

time to put your skill to grand master in real time without cash shop ?
well 155 day x3
(assuming you are rich enouth in game to afford the manual) (oh and then you must go to grand master to perfect but that s again another thing with soul stone)
(but dont worry you have tons of other thing to do so it won t matter, kind of like EVE online skill who take 30 days)

now: all the item a spoke in the cash shop can be loot in game!.

but can you see how costly is it to take an advantage upon someone else with cash shop ? can we say its p2w since (less than) 1% of the playerbase can afford it and most of them won t use it ?

honestly metin2 is for me the most pw2 cash shop one could ever see at 2st glance.

but in actual game .. well only wales can affort it …
also if you know how to trade … you can have item maxed, and full without going into cash shop since no item is "soulbound"

so yea metin2 may be p2w but strangely much less than any of your regular f2p games .

yea yea, sorry for my poor english

but the rune pages don't really mean much
you could just play with the two you get by default, just manually change the runes in them if you badly want to play a different role
again, you're just paying for a convenience that you don't really need

nope, they couldn't have made it right if Dota 2 made it better
you gain more IP to spend on runes than others, meaning you have more options, meaning you have an advantage, even if minimal.

In dota, cosmetics don't do shit, literally nothing, and it's profitable

Dota did right, League did not

eh, guess you're right
still, it's a VERY minimal advantage
like, whether you're doing 0.1 damage or 0.11 to someone with 1k health

How did you have the autism to play that long? I got bored at the second area at like level 18 or some shit like that as it was mindless grinding and it is pure p2w? What level did you get to before you stopped?

I wish t3 runes (the ones you want) did not cost so much ip. They could make it half or some shit like that and it would still be kinda grindy

Last time i played (season 3) you cant change runes in champion select. If you can do that now then i am wrong but if not then more rune pages do help

well, i meant outside of champion select
just prepare 2 roles you want to play and stick with them

There are some runes you only want on some heroes (again i played s2 and half of s3 so dont know how it is now) such as Ryze where you want mana runes or passive support like Soraka where you want GP5 runes. Some AP mid you want mana runes and some you want flat AP. Some top want tanky runes others want more attack

Guacamelee's such a great game. I just wish it was more challenging and had better humor.
I also wish juicebox would release something new already

Also this music makes me sad every time.

hwat

If you have to pay for it and it helps you win
Cosmetics are fine
Expansion packs are fine because they add to the existing game (with more game modes, quests, etc)

Don't charge for cheat codes

sage because this sounds like a question copied and pasted from a survey

I created this thread/survey myself because i seen some disagreement about what is p2w on 8ch and cuckchan

it was at the begining 2007/2008
1st mmo …
i was 14 at the time and new to mmo

(2nd one was RIFT when it has open because the rift system with global even like invasion was just .. awesome, then they fucked it up like wow )

now i have a lvl 75 full maxed and without paying that much … but i took time.

it may be taking dirt as we speak but … well even if i loved the gameplay (basic attack actually felt heavy)

the change fo effect of skill and item based on it level

and honestly ? it may be one of the best hack n slash (dynasty warrior style not marvel heroes/PoE/diablo) mmo out there …
i remmember when it was bashed by critic because "muh only 5 or 6 skills"

or because everyone (because it s a beat them all-hack n slash) had the same armor a X level

now i dont go to this game anymore,exept to screw arround.
it s too much time consuming but most of all: IT S OLD !
many player just pass time buy building "shinny alt" (lvl 35 or 55 full maxed equipment and skills)
i don t even know is lvl 75 is considered high level anymore .

but i dont regret anything.
i still had great fun with friend when raiding other players.

A game is pay to win when it sells things that help you win the game or gives you an edge over other players

-Selling expansions isn't pay to win

-Sell cosmetics isn't pay to win

-Selling xp boosts is only pay to win if having a higher level means you can squash players, if having a higer "level" only means you get skins or get paired with higer level accounts and it's basically just a meaningless number that doesn't impact gameplay, then it's noy pay to win.

This isn't rocket science.

They are all P2W.
Path of Exile stash tab advantage may not seem obvious at first but once you realize half of the game is trading it becomes crystal clear.

THIS
THREAD
Everyone go home.

P2W is simply having an advantage by paying. It's worst when it's super special hear that it's better than end game gear.

If it's only cosmetic, it doesn't matter.

I agree that is why i really like the payment model Overwatch have. You get all future heroes and maps for free (no grind or anything) but you grind for skins and other meaningless shit or you spend real money like a faggot to get more cosmetics. Better than selling DLC map packs or DLC weapon packs

look at him, he just to paid full price for a car who have only his structure,wheels and engine.

but he is happy, because the rest is comming for free !

If the advantage is pety, then it's irrelevant too, like LoL or HOTS champion unlocking, specially when you can unlock those champions by playing the game as well.
Only for ranked fags. Hidden selection doesn't suffer from this and even in ranked the advantage a champion gives you over another depends on how good you control it..
Haven't played overwatch, but I've been wanting to.

The car would fulfill it's purpose even without the bodywork, fag.

Anyone who thinks anything more than just cosmetics isn't pay to win, is a buyer's remorse cuck.

Not Pay to Win: Cosmetics

Pay to Win: Everything else, absolutely including boosts, time savers, and other clear conveniences

Your attempts at justifying your lack of standards are just pathetic, and you should be ashamed.

The only model that qualifies as pay2win is when the things behind the pay wall actually have an effect on gameplay (ie. better swords, guns, stat boosts, etc.) that CANNOT be obtained otherwise.

Pay2win is only present when the WIN condition is obtainable by spending money. Paying for a near max level character in World of Warcraft is NOT pay2win because leveling is not the game's win condition. If you could buy actual gear through the cash shop, that would be pay2win. That's why it's called pay2not grind, which you'll notice is an entirely different term than pay2win, and that's because they're two different concepts, not two words for the same thing.

Cosmetics can be pay to win in certain situations

For example, in fps games a cosmetic that camoflauges well in certain areas compared to default costumes, like a ghilie suit in a jungle level could make you harder to notice than just normal soldiers clothing

But what kind of developer would be so greedy to do that?

You're right even. Even some cosmetics are pay to win too. Stop putting fucking micro transactions in competitive situations.

There are no girls on the internet, faggot. gb2 reddit underage

AHAH ! look he is happy about it !

she shill is real, the cuck is powered

you should go back

Boosts
Boosts for nominally better gear
Nominally better gear.

If you can replace git gud/git gud gear with
buy gud/buy gud gear it is Pay to win.

Jesus user. You've gone full-blown triggered edgelord on him just for saying "girls."

The "there are no girls on the internet" rule isn't for anyone who mentions females. It is for people who are attention-whoring or approval-fishing by mentioning they are female in an irrelevant context.

You are fucking idiots