Karl Marx is back in fashion - John McDonnell

ukpollingreport.co.uk/

That doesn't look like an argument my man, I'm asking you to show me how the Tories have a way to make it to 2020 without taking the beating of a lifetime.

Because they have the whole media behind them…

It doesn't really matter who runs the Labour party then does it.

what like "muh bedroom tax" did?
get real lad, labour need to provide reasons for people to vote for them and so far with jezza they haven't done.

it needs someone who gets the media on board, like blair and campbell did.

No, it doesn't, it needs people like you to fuck off repeating their baseless not-an-arguments every day.

Go ahead then, if you're not going to tell me what the Tories can do to maintain power, tell me what Labour can do (after getting rid of Corbyn of course) to stop you cropping up exclusively in Labour threads to whine about them.

They don't need to do anything to mantain power, I honestly don't understand what the fuck you're on about, they're simply a popular party who people will vote for

Are you new to UK politics? Do you understand how FPTP works? The tories will win the GE, it's pretty simple

BRING BACK BLAIR

What the point of having the Labor elected if it's for having Blair 2 electric Boogaloo?

Says the retarded Blairite who crops up in every Corbyn thread with a signature style of not an argument and changing the subject every post.

Remember when you had to be told what TINA was?

I'm a huge fan of Corbyn, I'm just being realistic, left-wing politics are incredibly unpopular with the British public.

Grow up.

Canada uses literally the same electoral system, the Labour - Conservative polling split, this far from an election and after all the shit that just happened, would not really be considered of note.

Should we be scared of this?

all they need is someone who looks and sounds the part, like blair and cameron.
most people are basic level morons.

No that's not him, that's me. I also posted this
Which kinda goes against the black and white thinking of "everyone who isn't on Corbyn's dick is a Blairite" you can't seem to get past…

Wew lad, even in your parting shot you sound like a disgruntled Telegraph reader.

It is pretty black and white though, isn't it? Considering the argument essentially boils down to

ukpollingreport.co.uk/

Yes, contrary to the myth that Karl Marx died in the 1880s, he worked throughout the 20th century as an architect of socialist economics under various pseudonyms (Oskar Lange, Leonid Kantorovich, Paul Cockshott, and dozens more). According to experts, Marx is still alive and kicking today, and can only be killed by beheading.

...

It shows you that Corbyn is an unpopular politican, end of story.

Is the Quickening dialectical?

Then close the tab and move on with your life.

Where does being a fan of Blair or Corbyn come into things?
Courting the media is part of the job, don't want to do it then you don't get in. Simple as that.
So I guess Campbell was right and Corbyn's sqaud don't want to get in.
For a politician in the UK saying you're a fan of Marx is as tactically astute as saying you want Sharia law.

BASED CORBYN WILL MAKE LABOR THE VANGUARD OF THE REVOLUTION!

The media is run by a 90 year old Australian vampire, a Lord and Russian oligarchs. It's not a case of "if you don't court them you clearly don't want in" it's a case of "if the British choose to only allow people who court the corrupt media in they deserve what they get".

Oh plz they shat on him from day 1. Did you even read the report where some people found constant media bias just from the first month of his leadership?

Can't really do much about it till he gets in power though can he?
Doesn't he play 32DD chess?

I think I'm seeing your point clearer now, but you'll never have Murdoch support you trying to get socialist policies in as a platform. Out of his options he's choosing the right one and keeping integrity rather than trying to woo them and getting inevitably stabbed in the back.

Everything will go wrong for the Tories over the next few years, they wanted Labour to inherit their decisions in 2015 but it didn't happen. They're pretty much raising a whole generation of voters to hate them, an EU referendum they called to appease internal party politics that will only end in tears, and they've been lying to financial investors for years. China, the US and the EU financial systems are playing a game of hot potato with the next crash and when that happens Corbyn won't allow the right to take control of the narrative like his media serenading successors.

You're right, but looking presentable, singing the national anthem, not saying you want even more immigrants can all be done while keeping socialist policies that make a difference and aren't just gestures.
As it is, no one in the media talks about those policies and focuses on all those vote losing things that were totally unneccessary and pointless.

I don't think so, people will think of the future and dealing with the Brexit aftermath and May will be simply seen as the safest pair of hands.
She will sell it as her making the best of a bad situation that she didn't create.

They already do. How do you think Trump has got so far, how did Brexit happen?
Social media - which is dominated by far right voices.
Shit is gonna get ugly over the next 20 years.
Corbyn just isn't cutting through, sadly.
It should have been someone the working class can relate to, like Burnham.

And this time, it's personal

M8, the burden of proof is on you to show why the current dominance of the Tories will end, not on us to show why it will continue.

And Labour will not win on a pro-immigration platform.

True, but if they had absolutely nothing to go on they wouldn't talk about his policies anyway. See: Red Ed and the dastardly sandwich.

I think when the dust has settled closing in on 2020 Corbyn will fucking eviscerate them for this. He's got a pretty comfy position on the issue and can attack whoever he likes, being skeptical of the EU but voting remain as a reformist who won't ignore the referendum results is the best position I could imagine as a Labour leader.

If Burnham would have got in at the first leadership election he would have just turned out to be another Miliband, trying to chase votes that didn't particularly give a shit and lose more of the party's core. The Tories and blulabour are never going to fix the economy so we may as well have an opposition that actually has a plan to and if the British public let themselves be spoonfed on the issue and the Labour party get stomped then they'll have nothing but themselves to blame for it.

I notice that the public has shut the fuck up when it comes to constantly yearning for a leader with integrity who doesn't play the media game and use the Commons to sling shit all the time, regardless of whether he agrees with them or not, which is amusing in itself.

Already did that, not going to type it out again for you since you think a link to a shit site that can't even afford to host anything but tables is an interesting contribution.

Nooo… you're the one using current lead as demonstrative of some kind of permanent dominance, its really up to you to make an actual argument.

I'm not that guy, no need to get butthurt.

You have made an unjustified assertion (the Tories will inevitably collapse) and challenged us to disprove it. That isn't how arguments work. Tory dominance is the default, and the burden of proof is on YOU to explain why we will get something else instead.

Honestly, this is like arguing with a cybernat. All emotion, no reason.

True, he's moved to the left with Corbyn and has proved to be loyal and non-disruptive.

They will get stomped. The economy is fundamentally fucked and will get more so, but Corbyn has offered nothing realistic.
His arguments lack substance and his proposals only appeal to a different type of financial illiterate.
The Hinckley C project is the Tory version of PFI and the public is getting mugged and Labour offered nothing in response to demonstrate how a publicly financed system would do better than the free market solution.
Open goal - missed.

can you prove this assertion?

I won't disagree with you about Labour missing open goals, but I don't know whether this is down to Corbyn or MP's constantly shitting all over the place; at least Corbyn seems to get more of the open goals his successors have. One poster before pointed to the bedroom tax as evidence of people not giving a shit - it was not mentioned at all at any point by Labour, I wouldn't be surprised if they had helped the Tories pass it tbh (not checked, I know they backed the benefits cap). In fact from 2010 to either 2013/2014 we may as well not have had an opposition, and when they did decide to turn up we still may as well not had an opposition. It's all well and good saying "Heh gotta court the media, no sense being purely a party of protest and opposition" then courting the media, failing to oppose anything, and still not getting elected like a bunch of retards.

Can you elaborate on his proposals appealing to the financially illiterate? I like a lot of his proposals on principle of the current state of affairs being disastrous and enriching the few, but since nobody ever discusses his fucking policy I am genuinely interested in an opposing opinion to them.

The reason Labour didn't oppose it strongly because the prevailing narrative was "don't you fucking complain, remember this is your mess we're clearing up".
And clearly, enough of the electorate felt the same way. Kicking off about it too much would not reflect well on Labour. They had to look credible and responsible.
Thinking about it, they could play it the same way with Brexit, and say it was Labour who let the Eastern Europeans in and Corbyn won't stop it.

So do you see how Labour is doomed in the media no matter how much pandering they do? The only way to beat them is to make them look like dishonest, lying shitheads.

Labour could have seized the narrative that it was the deregulation of the banks under Thatcher that made the UK so vulnerable to the financial crash, but they didn't, they let the blame be shifted onto single mothers and whatever group the faggots over at the Daily Mail decided that week. They had a weak, shitty leadership and to pretend we'd be better off with their kind running the show again is pure fantasy.

The prevailing narrative was the prevailing narrative because they so completely and utterly failed to represent an alternative one.

The true slick entryist

They're not pandering to the media they're pandering to the brainwashed public.
And now for some reason dishonesty doesn't matter to a lot of people - see Trump and Brexit again.
And Labour did plenty of deregulation themselves, and they loved the extra revenues from the housing boom and making people feel rich with their borrowed money.
That said, just because some people in the past fucked up doesn't mean people should think Corbyn is the answer.
So far, all he can do is criticise, rather than propose a convincing alternative to the masses rather than a narrow band of loyalists.

He has a convincing alternative, again, the problem is that the media won't talk about it because they'd rather shit in their hands and throw it at him like a bunch of chimps.

Not much you can do about the public being intellectually lazy and refusing to find any sources that aren't from a bunch of rich foreigners.

Tell me more about the convincing alternative please

Why do you think the French Revolution used guillotines?

Nice shitpost.

Restrict zero hour contracts, increase minimum wage, build houses, nationalise privatised public services, etc.

Again, not going to put that much effort in because of the complete dedication on your part not to back up anything you've said, even when prompted to.

holy paranoia i was just asking for you to quickly list his policies.
thanks for doing so.

I wouldn't say it's unfounded given the vast majority of online British political discourse is snark and blatant lies wrapped in trying to sound like an Essex van driver.