What was the position of the Frankfurt School on Zionism? I wish I could look it up myself, but as you would expect searching up "frankfurt school zionism" on Google mostly returns Holla Forums-grade nonsense.
Zionism and Frankfurters
Brayden Gray
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mondoweiss.net
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Cooper Anderson
Benjamin was an anarcho-zionist before he was seduced by a Soviet actress and fucked into a Leninist.
Horkheimer was pro-Israel I believe but he went full reactionary later in life.
Realize that large-scale Jewish support for Israel only became a thing after 1967.
Camden Bell
You're a hotdog, but you'd better not try to hurt her, Frankfurter.
Brody Morales
They were not antisemitic. No. A droll way to ask about it, btw. Anyhow, here's some material. If your German skills are bad, try using google. Either work your way through it and try phrase your questions more coherently or just gtfo right back to the electronic intifada.
david.juden.at
faz.net
youtube.com
Cooper Thomas
why dont you read them instead of asking for us to spoonfed you Holla Forums
Brandon Edwards
Zionism and Israel itself had very different meaning at first. First Israelis were actually leftists, you even had lots of Bolsheviks there, and there was no support from the US at that point, even American Jews didn't want to have anything to do with Israel because of that.
Norman Finkelstein talks about this here (a really mind-blowing talk in general):
youtube.com
Ian Wood
Oh, yes. I saw him on the home page of David Duke.
Thomas Turner
Let me guess, Noam Chomsky was there too.
Anyway, Chomsky was a Zionist as well when he was young.
Ian Lewis
Finklestein is famous for "The Holocaust Industry" in which he talks about how the tragedy of the Holocaust has been exploited for the monetary gain of the individuals in the Jewish community - which is true. Think about how many Holocaust museums there are in the United States. However, far right wingers like this because it's a Jew criticizing the way the Holocaust has been used by the Jewish community, and they then use this to extrapolate "it probably didn't happen at all".
Tyler Jackson
It's an Antisemitism industry author. Least of all he belongs to a thread on adorno et al. keep your droning Holla Forums, pls. kthxbye
Jaxon Russell
*to Holla Forums
Carter Miller
This.
Wyatt James
What nonsense. Yes, Noam Chomsky who came out in support of the book is a known anti-Semite.
Benjamin Collins
Chomsky is a liberal Zionist who half-asses on BDS and has insulted the Palestinian people multiple times.
Joseph Bell
And more importantly how Holocaust has been used to legitimize Israel and their actions, while blackmailing every critic or opponent of Israel with accusations of anti-semitism.
The point of it in the first place was that Zionism at first wasn't what it is now, which is relevant to OP. You were the one who went ahead and made it about Holla Forums by getting hysterical when you saw Finkelstein's name.
Mason Rogers
Chomsky was a zionist. He is no longer a Zionist: mintpressnews.com
I'm curious as to what you mean by "insulted the Palestinian people". In what way? You're gong to have to be a bit more explicit.
This. I am actually of Jewish descent and I've been at dinners where an older Jewish couple was berating the Canadian Green Party as anti-semetic for adopting a BDS policy.
Nolan Hughes
Yup. Not the first time he does it.
en.wikipedia.org
Thomas Hall
Do you consider the NSDAP antisemitic?
Jacob Evans
Oh…. so you're an ACTUAL Zionist it seems. Don't worry, we did need to blow up the only hospital in the West Bank, no other options available…
David Wilson
gb2/pol/
Evan Roberts
This is why no one takes Jews seriously
Get in the oven kike
James Lopez
I MEAN C'MON IT'S 2016
Jason Wilson
Yes, I've seen Chomsky speak against Israeli apartheid myself. HOWEVER it doesn't change the fact that most Palestinian people feel betrayed by his support of two-state solution and his refusal to support a full BDS (despite supporting BDS against the settlements).
In other words, Chomsky thinks he knows how to fight better than the Palestinians do.
Jaxson Morgan
What is your solution then? That all the Jews(many of which have lived in Palestine before Israel became a sovereign) leave? A 2 or 3 state solution is the most pragmatic.
Evan Roberts
One-state solution. Full Right of Return for refugees. Land reform. Full Palestinian leadership. Re-arabization of the Mizrahi Jews (who have also suffered tremendously under Ashkenazi supremacy). Deconstruct "Jewish identity" so that the ideological component of Zionism dies. Also, instate immigration programs to help Ashkenazi Jews emigrate to Europe or the US.
Colton Evans
Why? Some of these people( as I mentioned earlier) have been there for multiple generations. What right do you have to tell them to leave?
I actually am part Mizrahi Jew - and that isn't because my grandpa was coerced into it. He's a legitimate Mizrahi Jew, so I don't understand what you mean by this. If you mean establishing cultural autonomy for Arabs then I agree with you. But this doesn't make much sense to me.
I agree with deconstructing Jewish identity to eliminate the zionist aspect but overall, it sounds like you want to trade one ethno-state for another.
Jonathan Brown
That folks like that seem to find one another an extremely pleasant company was one of the topics addressed by Marcuse and Adorno. Do drop a look. @hammer and sickle guy: you didn't reply on the NSDAP and The question was serious. And while we're there, could you opine on Tupamaros West-Berlin, the Doctor's Plot, and the Hamas? Unfortunately we have very few antisemites hiding behind Marxian universalism left in Germany, amongst other things, because of the insights on them of such people like Theodor Wiesengrund and Herbert Marcuse. And it's a thread on the Frankfurt School not on the martyrs of the war against the Jew; nor on solving the Jewish question once and for all.
You might want to look into what those people think themselves before planning your death of zionism and de-arabizations.
jewishrefugees.blogspot.de
Ethan Powell
Ah that explains a lot. Fear not, we understand how you lot romanticize Israel as some kind of Middle Eastern Cuba under threat from Nazi-inspired Palestinian suicide bombers.
Joseph Jenkins
They are still white colonials, just like Rhodesians, Pied-Noirs, and so on. The colonial relationship will still exist BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE and ideologically believe their "right" to that land is somehow greater than the Palestinians'.
There are no "good Zionists" just like how there were zero "good Rhodesians" or "good French" in Algeria.
Today the biggest and most vocal Zionist groups are religious Zionists. They constitute the vast majority of settlers and their numbers are only growing. The Jewish religion needs to be deconstructed as well to showcase it as nothing more than a fiction.
The Jewish National Fund was responsible for the vast majority of Mizrahi immigration to Palestine. Most Mizrahi Jews considered themselves Arab first, Jewish second and had no desire to join Ashkenazi supremacists in their colonial project until Ashkenazis brainwashed them.
Logan Wilson
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David Adams
Their position was to spread international zionism among the stupid goyim
Clearly it worked
Joseph Mitchell
this is not how it works. How did all the Irish and Arab chauvinists come believe they're in good company amongst people who read Marx and Lenin? Is that a consequence of Soviet Realpolitik?
To me it is hilarious that there is someone around to spin Blumenthal's and Sheen's rabid attempt to break into the toilet to get the leader of the German Linke (with a camera!) to some castigate the Linke itself for a lack of solidarity with the Hamas regime in Gaza and other antisemite thugs.
Brody King
You cannot end imperialism by keeping imperialists in lands that are not theirs.
Mugabe was right to kick most of the white settlers out of Zimbabwe. Likewise, Algerian rebels were right for wanting ALL French out of Algeria. How would a full decolonization have been possible had white settlers remained? Even if they were no longer living under white rule, white colonials would still have held most of the wealth and control of land.
A two-state solution in Palestine would lead to Zionists demanding full-scale ethnic cleansing. It is nothing to support and no one who does can call themselves anti-imperialist.
Asher Anderson
It is not really Finkelstein's fault that stormcucks will invariably abuse his work for ulterior motives.
Brayden Ortiz
This is only really a problem if you don't socialize the MoP. Abolishing private property and land reform are both fine; forcing someone from the homes they were born in just because they're not the right ethnicity is not.
By your standards, absolutely nobody on this earth would have any right to inhabit the land that they live on.
Jeremiah Hughes
In the case of Palestine, land reform would absolutely have to be done on a racial basis. Israel is an Ashkenazi supremacist state and this is as cultural/ideological as it is wealth-wise. The only way to decolonize Palestine is to seize kibbutzes and such run by Ashkenazi Jews and give them to Palestinians (preferably refugees) so that the ideological grip of Ashkenazi colonialism can be defeated.
Mason Cox
If not for the stormfags there would be no one there to read his tin foil hatter drivel on how the public notion of the holocaust has been orchestrated by the ZOG Occupied Government. He is one of the major authors in the antisemitism industry and not one of it's clueless victims.
How does the life of Arab Jews who had their land (four times the size of Israel) taken away in Arab countries and now live in the Jewish State compare to that of umteenth generation Arab Palestinians who now live in Arab States surrounding Israel? So whose the supremacist and racist? Who's the one suffering "severe descrimination"? ;)
Jackson Reed
Are you a socialist or are you for Capitalism with Palestinian Characteristics? The 'ideological grip' of Ashkenazi colonialism is worth nothing without the material means to enforce it. Without private property, what are you giving away?
Furthermore, who is doing the reform in this situation? Have we invaded Israel and are now to divide it up? Did the Palestinians somehow take over? In that case I'd rather think that the priority should be keeping them from genociding the Ashkenazi!
I don't by any means condone the crimes of Israel or any other colonial regime, but you are talking about fixing a crime by committing another.
Ethan Reed
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Connor Hall
If being the first to control an area made that property an inalienable right, then we would have no right to demand the bourgeoisie hand over the means of production.
So generalizing people is wrong when we do it in the context of an oppressed people, but right when we apply it people who happen to be in the same ethnic group as the oppressor?
Shall we move Italians back to Constantinople next? This line of thinking is regressive in the deepest sense of the word.
Dylan Johnson
You can't have socialism when imperialism and colonialism remain. Period.
So Ashkenazis need to stay in place for Palestine to become socialist? Wrong. You can't have a socialist Palestine unless Ashkenazi-owned properties are redistributed. Race and class are synonymous in this case as in all colonial entities.
Palestinians. A two-state solution is dead and was always a joke. Most Palestinians DO, in fact, want Ashkenazis out.
youtube.com
Jeremiah Ward
Nazi Israel? You mean the PA? As for pictures, you should have taken one of Dresden. It compares rather well to the consequences of fascism in Gaza.
Zachary Wood
The nationalism of the oppressed is different than the nationalism of the oppressor/colonizer.
White people had no right to colonize most of the world. Why allow for them to maintain their presence in said former colonies even after "decolonization"?
Aiden Lee
The problem with anti-imp discourse is how do you tell what is and what is not a colonial entity? Has the peace of versailles made the new german republic a colony? if so, then can hitler be regarded as some hero of colonial liberation?
Adam Murphy
I like the way you think.
Thomas Green
Your mistake is assuming an individual is nationalistic by default rather than an individual.
Because just like inheriting debt is immoral, your supposition that "white people" should inherit the sins of their ancestors(or in the case of Israel, more likely their great grandparents) is just as fallacious and emotionally fuelled.
Eli Bennett
extrapolate. i know limonov's party very well and i do like them for what they are (a bunch of muscowite pomo bohemians). did you have something in particular in mind when using their flag?
This would have been a very interesting supposition if he ever worded it out.
Ryan Morales
So what are the Palestinians to do? Return to their rightful lands with Ashkenazi colonizers all over the place, most of whom will still have control of the majority of good farm lands and wealth AND have advantages in cultural capital, education, hegemony, etc.?
How the FUCK is that a "decolonization"? The entire Ashkenazi apparatus has to be dismantled and replaced with a Palestinian one.
Colton Turner
If he didn't think this then why would the "white people" have to leave because someone they're vaguely genetically related to engaged in immoral behaviour?
I think a lot of land should be given back to the Palestinian people. But just because land is expropriated doesn't mean the people who were currently inhabiting it need to leave permanently. Again, you say this for some Ashkenazi's sure. But I keep asking you about what you want to do with those who were living in Palestine before Israel became sovereign?
Why can't it be replaced with a new paradigm entirely? I find your focusing on white people rather erroneous, Islamic caliphates engaged in imperialism to(which is why I asked if you would give Constantinople back to Italy). Are you doing this out of principle against colonialism, or against white colonialism specifically?
Matthew Ward
**I was making a joke about Nazbols trying to mesh wehrabooism with leftist theory. The idea of declaring Hitler a hero resisting colonial oppression would seem like the natural conclusion of this.
I think Limonov's a funny guy personally, and I liked his book about immigrating to the US. His articles in the Exile were pretty good and I gotta say that that rag played a not-too-small part in my conversion to the Left. Nazbols on here are kinda silly though. Like skinheads who want to larp as soviets.**
Christopher Jones
Zionism IS Ashkenazi. All the early Zionists and founders of Israel were Ashkenazi/European Jews. All the signers of the Israeli constitution were Ashkenazi/European Jews. Not a single Zionist organization existed among Arab Jews and there were even Mizrahi members of the PLO.
Of course this conflict is about race. It's not about wealth. Haredi Jews who own nothing but their Talmuds are still white colonials who need to be transferred back to Europe or America.
Brandon Cooper
Zionism IS Ashkenazi. All the early Zionists and founders of Israel were Ashkenazi/European Jews. All the signers of the Israeli constitution were Ashkenazi/European Jews. Not a single Zionist organization existed among Arab Jews and there were even Mizrahi members of the PLO.
Irrelevant. What matters is the principle not the peculiarities.
And to which I will reply again: why not try a new paradigm completely?
Logan Price
not white people. say, the dynasty of the bourbons. what is their right to owning france? the contemporary descendants of the people who served in the SS, the Gestapo and the NKVD today are a part of their respective country's establishments. descendants of people who conducted the genocide in namibia live in villas surrounded with an electric fence. they are glad to take the booty of their parents but don't want the karma that comes with.
the marxists have no theory why you should punish a criminal. kant has higher justice. marx doesn't. as a marxist you can reduce all law to class interest. property and race is the interest of the bourgeoisie. we will just have laws in the interests of the proles instead with no property or race.
Adorno does address it with scorn in the speech/lecture i have linked above. in the GDR all nazi ideology and law was declared to have been merely the handiwork of the bourgeoisie. this a proletarian member of the Einsatzgruppen who murdered people by the thousands had nothing to fear. They wouldn't even take away the home he aryanized: the GDR acknowledged private property as long as it weren't the means of production.
You had class but you had zero personal responsibility. And all guilt in nazi crimes ceased to exist the day the German bourgeoisie ceased to exist as a class in the GDR. Adorno rightfully observes it's why the East Germans were much more eager to accept the new ideology than, for instance, the Poles. Most Eastern Germans still are an atheist spot between West Germany and Poland because in the new ideology they were fooled previously and now free of all the guilt.
in the israeli case an approach of this sort would have to take the germans into account and even just the companies which financed the rise of hitler have enough land to house all palestinians and all the jews. it's a decent idea. too bad the author is a troll. it's evident from one factual blunder no pallie-lover from the ummah'd have comitted and from his discourse you can see it's not anti-imp either.
his eddie book is far 2edgy4me. as for natsbols, skinheads doesn't quite fit. it used to be hipsters back in the 1990s. whereas the skinheads were the RNE. I've read a sociologist employ the notion of cultural capital to compare the two groups. Conclusion was the NBP members had too much of it (educated families and no gf) and RNE had none (bouncers, fired armymen).
Connor Sanchez
Joseph Cox
y no jewwatch?
Connor Scott
So do we give Constantinople back to Italy? This is something no one has answers so far.
Lincoln Wilson
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Oliver Flores
This can be extended to the genocidal Australians and genocidal slaver Americans, too. Or: to the Turks in West Armenia. The issue with the Slavs in what used to be the German Ostgebiete is by far not as clear. The population exchange between Turkey and Greece or Israel and the Arabic countries is in my eyes not an issue at all. Except in that what the Jews have gained is nothing when compared to what they lost. Ahmadinedjad suggested the Germans should surrender Sleswig. I like this idea. The Arab Muslim countries should deliver, too, at least four times the size of Israel, to accomodate all of the Arab Jews they robbed. The gypsies have no land at all. This is a grievous injustice as well.
Matthew Lewis
Should Britain be Breton?
Samuel Foster
No. I think the "who was here first" logic is regressive because if you go back far enough, the Jews did live in Israel and were the oppressed. I also wonder if our friend would support taking every single European in America, Canada and Australia and sending them back to Europe. It's nonsense.
Chase Lee
It is "regressive" because it would result in the recognition the right of the Jews to exist in a state of their own? But comrade, what is wrong with that? As for the yanqui scum - you do not have to send them packing I could envision them providing restitution by labour.
Cameron Harris
No it's regressive because land has shifted hands numerous times throughout history. Expropriating land and investing in Palestinian infrastructure are both things the Palestinians are owned. But the goal shouldn't be to trade one ethno-state for a new one but to establish a new socialist paradigm. Socialism does not have the tendency to subsume entire peoples like other modes of production.
Ryder King
are owed*
Tyler Bell
tenured labour and expropriation for slavers and descendants slave drivers and soldiers involved in the indian genocide could do wonders to repair provide the basic infrastructure (education, healthcare, individual fulfilment); same must be done to all of those involved in the enforcement of the criminal communist confinement doctrine. it trumps everything you in your fervour are willing to ascribe to the jews.
why is it that you only have plans on what to do about the Israstine but not repairing of the grevious wrongs by whatever nation you are living in now? Where are your new socialist paradigms for Syria, Russia and Saudi Arabia? Do you believe you aren't antisemite? The Frankfurt school philosophers didn't talk much about the Jewish state but they sure did notice that the former nazis were obsessed with Israel and nothing else. Alas i do not know if it has ever been translated.
Austin Kelly
to the victims of American state policies, of course. Do you really think the Natives and the Manumitted slaves along with people living in the nations wrecked by American and Saudi cold war politics have it significantly better than the Palestinians? Or is it more a common enemy that is the commonality between yourself Abbas and the Hamas?
Jose Kelly
pardon me for bad english. not my native.
Julian Jackson
I never said I don't support socialism in these areas. On the contrary I do, I am a communist after all.
I'm not sure what you mean by this?
Well I am from a Jewish family, so I would think not.
Nazi's today are vehemently anti-Israel. The far right gives ammunition to Israel by allowing them to frame BDS policy as antisemetic.
It probably has.
Jordan Perry
When have Jews not framed any criticism of themselves and their actions as driven by utterly-irrational antisemitism?
Ethan Harris
The thing with a majority of self-proclaimed socialists is they support the withering away of one nation only, that of the Jews.
Vietnam, Korea War, Pinnochet, Noriega, Marcos support for Mao, support for the Khmer Rouge, support for islamist Arab tyrants, support for Usama bin Laden and and and. But I notice you don't want to talk about that. That you only are informed about the crimes of the Jew is a decent excuse I guess. Julius Streicher used it in Nuremberg.
Antisemitism is an ideology. And the Jews are nation of millions. Of course there were and are Jewish antisemites. You're the living example.
Hitler is providing ammunition to the Jew by their allowing them to frame him as antisemitic? that is… quite the argument.
Jose Watson
FREE PALESTINE NOW
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Joseph Campbell
Anybody else think this was another circumcision troll thread when they first read the title?
FIX YOUR FUCKING SITE CUCKMONKEY
Lucas Gutierrez
Looks like Brazil is nazi as well
William Collins
No shit, Sherlock?