Battleborn less than 3 weeks and already half the price

b-but user

The Pre-Sequel was a flop. Blands 3 would have failed too. People are tired of that shit already. But

HAH

...

You're right
40% is not half off

Nigga they can easily make it a F2P game with microtransactions. Making it a paid release when Overwatch is around the corner is a terrible idea, mainly because I doubt anyone even knew this fucking existed, or was even "hyped" for it.

I don't know if BL3 would've failed, Pre-Sequel failed because it came out for 360/PS3 and released too close to Destiny.

If you go to GMG you get that additional 20% off.

KInda shocking how there was like next to nothing on marketing for this piece of shit. DId Randy think this garbage was going to sell on brand recognition alone?

what the fuck else does gearbox even have once normalfags stop buying blands?

ShipWreckers

That and Overwatch has porn potential, this one doesn't because it's made by hyper SJWs. You know, I'm pretty sure the model developer and the concept artist for overwatch both really like asses. Over at gearbox is different, everyone is an SJW there.

Duke Nukem and Brother in Arms
Which they are sitting on to try to pander to the Reddit/Tumblr Memelands crowd.

Hopefully they go down and their IPs go to someone who at least wants to make money.

GODDAMN SHIT I FORGOT

Well the porn was pretty much a dead give away that this thing was going to fail and fail hard.

Porn for OverWatch since they first debuted it. While I seen like 3 pics of porn for StillBorn and none of it good to boot.

Instead of Hardware we got a shitty Ground Control 2 clone which rapes Homeworld backstory every fifteen minutes.

There will never be another BiA or Douk gaem.

Don't know man. I refused to buy anything with GearBox name on it. I love HW series but not supporting this faggot or his company.

On subject, remember when EA would willingly give away free battlefield keys to promote the next game to bloat multiplayer numbers and increase interest?

It's a fantastic tactic when done right, what memeford is doing is outright desperation.

He must have thought "from the house of Borderlands" would still carry weight after what happened with Aliens Colonial Marines.

Given that Randy said this shit was the "biggest investment" ever for Gearbox, and there's little to no marketing on it, this is a fantastic flop. It's worse than Evolve, because that at least had marketing and was able to capitalize on the fact that people were desperate for any games on their shiny new consoles. Can you honestly name a single person that is even shilling for this compared to Evolve?

That's a blessing for Douk. After DNF and A:CM, I don't want to see what would happen to him.

Fucking Gearbox is retarded.

Found this on a forum

Holy fuck that's fucking disasters

Sexy women sell games. Blizzard was smart enough to buy off the SJWs with one pink-haired dyke before launching their assWidowmaker simulator.

Why do you keep making threads about this garbage though?
Is this some kind of reverse psychology shilling?
Stop.

Not only that, but Overwatch has lower system specs, and takes up 30GB, compared to Stillborn which needs 50/70GB to install.

It's blowing my mind, what the fuck were they thinking?

Credit where credit is due, people would love to cosplay as any of the characters in Overwatch. They aren't weirdly designed compared to Battleborn's characters

Is there a breed of person more pathetic than you OP? Why even compare the 2, one's a fucking MOBA the other is not, TF2 is a more akin comparison to Overwatch.

Really they fucked up pretty big with Battleborn.

1. A MOBA in a market that's already saturated with MOBAs, on top of that the more popular MOBAs are free.

2. Heavy re-use of Borderlands assets, from the visuals, the character designs the "humor" to the UI, its all ripped straight from BL2.

3. Poor marketing and attempting to piggyback on Overwatch, you don't do that, Blizzard's marketing machine will fucking crush you.

Game should have been F2P with a rotating cast heroes, get more eyes on it that way as it stands its not going to last very long and I have no problem with that, its about Randy Pitchford fucked off the industry forever.

> immediately brings them back their popularity and money for a new game

Kind of a shame it won't happen because they are cucks, but i wouldn't mind seeing an honest effort to a Duke Nukem game

Tis a shame.

But guess what, user.

I'm not going to buy any of them
teehee

This is the part where you fan fiction fails.

They only manage to make Borderlands 2 because they stole money from Sega.

I will probably never get Overwatch and will definitely never spend a single shekel on Battleborn, but even I can tell halfway decent characters from pure shit, and ultimately, that's what makes both games. Overwatch has a lot of nice looking characters that blend together somewhat well, and most of the ones that aren't great are simply plain, with very few outright shitty designs. Battleborn has far more shitty characters, more boring ones, only one or two interesting designs, and almost all of them look like they belong in different games.

Neither am I. But you don't even need to buy them to see which one is better, or rather more thought out

So we can laugh about it

Hope you shitting me on the specs. That more than what Black Desert takes up in space.

mecha piloting penguins is a pretty good idea though, the execution was lacking.

Yeah, I figured that considering the borderlands prequels sales and success, their ability to make shooters was clearly doubtful even from an outside point of view

I guess I just wanted a good Duke Nukem game and figured Gearbox had just enough despair to try and uncuck themselves by any means.

We'd see yet another half assed entry into the borderlands series before we saw a new Duke Nukem

..Battleborn is 50-70gb?

How the FUCK?

Are they using idTech with their multi-gig megatextures or something?

Battleborn should be like.. sub 5gb.

Uncompressed
Sound
Files.

Is usually the answer.

From what I remember, Battleborn's beta was 70gb. Looks like they shrunk it, but it's still outrageous because people say it has a lack of content.

In fact this makes me wonder why games are so badly optimized now, shit looks no better than TF2 now back in 2007. Last gen devs said the 360/PS3 were holding them back, but it's clear they're using new consoles as an excuse to not even optimize

That's the thing, I posted the two only remotely good ideas in this crap, and the execution is not only terrible (especially in the Penguin's case), they don't even look like they belong in the same game. I'm all for ideas that are a bit out there, but they need to be both competent and consistent.

I remember TOR being fucking massive because of its uncompressed audio, too.

It's nuts. It's goddamn nuts. I just bought Witcher 3 and all of its DLC (on sale for 50% off) and it's less than half of what Battleborn is.

Optimization is one thing, but if the fucking game is 70gb, does that mean it's constantly streaming stuff back and forth from the hard drive? GTA:V gets a pass because it's a fucking open world game and has tons of detail and all that, but Battleborn?

Christ Gearbox, what are you even doing?

Diversity hires and forced social studies classes on everyone, things are only going to get worse user now that kids are growing up with common core.

at least TOR had the excuse of having tons of voice acting.

I bought the game for 30€ at release.
I enjoyed it and I still enjoy it.

It's not worth 30€, I'd say its around 20€.
Campaign is short (4~7hours) but with a lot of replayability due to many different dialogues even with the same character.
Surprisingly gearbox has been listening to the fans and did a lot of hotfixes on what was wrong and some big patches to fix some maps where X character was broken instead of fucking up the character.

Overall the game is not great, but it's quite decent and at least better than Overwatch even if they are both different.

However, after Overwatch release instead of having instant matches, it's getting 5-15 minutes depending on the hour to even find a match. You can clearly tell that the game is dying.

I played the game with a lot of people and everyone enjoyed it so far, the community is not cancer amusingly and most of them know what they're doing.

Do I regret buying it at release?
No, I don't. I had my fun and I still keep having fun. However, if this keeps going in such decline and dies, then I will without a doubt regret it.

Its a hit or miss game, really. Gearbox fucked up big time with a full price release, they should have waited to implement more content to have a better excuse.

7950>>9469917

thats a fucking death sentence having ques that long.

This guy still pretends that they didn't falsely advertised Colonial Marines when all evidence points to the contrary. They took the money meant to develop it and spent it on blands 2 while paying some no name, no talent dev group to make CM for them. There's no low this chucklefuck won't sink to.

Don't forget that he won his counter lawsuit against SEGA and won an additional 1.5 mil after fucking them over.

Again, it all depends on the hour. If it's on EU's morning, it'll take a lot. If it's the afternoon, just 2-3 minutes, if it's noon I'll get instant and at night instant too.
But the mornings and sometimes at the afternoon, yeah you can tell.

This morning there was around 400 players, it rised to 2k players at the afternoon. Imagine, on steam there were more people playing Undertale than Battleborn.
I'm lucky that I have a lot of people that I found out before this happened and we can have private lobbies 5v5 between ourself, but whoever buys the game right now and finds this is going to feel scammed.

However, there's hope that this may resurrect the game. Gearbox DESERVES to be fucked up upon, but this game is actually decent and had a lot of work on it. It's a shame.

Anyways I'm heading off to bed soon, if someone wants to ask something since I have around 200 hours already I can say all the pros and cons. I wouldnt give a flying fuck about anything, but I'll gladly help some anons and explain them if the game catters to them or not. It's better to not lie and be honest with this kind of shit.

It's like they wanted to appeal to so many people they threw everything in a bucket of slop.

So it's a big ugly mess that no one wants to touch.

A few possible reasons for this

-Characters are aliens/beings from vastly different worlds resulting in deliberate differences in design and appearance.

-Characters were unused concepts for different unreleased games before being thrown into together and recycled in BattleBorn.

-Different designers created the characters. resulting in their final differences.

To add to last point, a way to alleviate that situation would be have the different near finalized designs pitched to a single head artist who then redraws them in their individual art style.

That may sound strange, but it what Game Freak does when designing Pokemon, different monster pitched and then final designs are redrawn by Ken Sugimori to create "consistancy" in art style.

The term is CRAPCUNTS.

Also dat ass.

...

Flat boyish butt.

Cmon boy

And I can't install that either

What ass?

Maybe the game was just missing attention to detail.

I can probably store the entirety of the first 4 or 5 generations of vidya into half of that.
Jesus tapdancing christ.

Gearbox seriously fucked up on the release date. The game was a four year project if I recall correctly yet it coincidentally released within a few weeks of Overwatch. Blizz's marketing and overall impact really fucked over GB because of it. I enjoyed the beta but fuck me, seeing the plebbitors complaining about OW instead of actually talking about the game already turned me off big time, knowing they would most likely be a large part of the community, or just migrate to OW en masse. The latter seems to have happened exactly judging by what says.

The NTSC-U PS1 library alone clocks in at ~463gb zipped.

OK, scratch that, just the first four then. (maybe including cartidge based ones from 5th)

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NES, SNES, Mega Drive/Genesis, Gameboy/Gameboy Color and Game Gear are just under 2GB.

It's crazy to think that chunk of gaming history is smaller than an HD movie.

Saw a few streams of the game and it looked like my monitor was barfing rainbows.

Automatically on my shit list.

An abject lesson in why there are no demos anymore. If you're lucky there will be a "beta" which is a glorified early access marketing thing that you usually have to pre-order to get in to in the first place, rendering the whole "demo" concept moot.

Not to mention all the game modes, custom dedicated servers and shit that TF2 has. Overwatch has none of that, and given how Blizzard has treated modding lately (I remember they released modding tools for SC2 but I haven't heard of anything worthwhile being made on it) I wouldn't count on Blizzard opening up their game the way Valve did.

The entirety of Pokemon Crystal was 2MB. On a system designed to only take 32KB of memory from the cartridge at a time. (although that's largely thanks to Iwata's genius coding skills, RIP in pieces). We've gone from amazing feats on fuck-all hardware specs to slashing resolutions and chopping framerates to add "pretty" graphical effects on stripped-down PC hardware in a box.

And the classicAtari Jaguar library is just under 10 mb!

If only it were as easy as having a purge. The problem is older than computers, and is called Parkinson's Law:

"Work expands to consume available resources."

How about titty masterrace

So that's how big TEMPEST 2000 is.

It's like you want to be filtered.

Oh I'm sorry
I'll turn it off because it's triggering

Overwatch is a moba as well you blizzdrone marketing shill piece of shit

Go ahead and call it an arena shooter one more time and I'll never come back to this fucking board again

Just because you don't like the game doesn't mean it's a moba.

No, but I played in every single beta and have over 2k hours in dota and I can tell you it's a fucking moba

Poor designs and an over-saturated market.

it's actually just over a megabyte and I should have said that instead of guessing the filesize of the entire Jaguar library

I thought mobas had minions or something. OW is neither

He just told you he has over 2000 hours of being retarded what makes you think he's going to stop now?

hahahaha

Right my bad it's an arena shooter. You blizz shills have it, I'm fucking out of here

We're all in this together son

Holy shit, overwatch is 40 bucks ?
It's fucking 60€ over here. Incidentally, it didn't look like many boxes left the store.

The physical copy is 60 bucks, meanwhile, the digital only version is 40.

in few years this will be posted on all bootleg threads and nobody will have an idea this is actual official toy

That's a tiny bit more reasonable, but still.

anyone have the pic where the gentleman says he likes battleborn because it is not "sexualized"

Give me the source

I played the beta, but I didn't buy it because it's not worth $80 CAD for the base game. I still had fun, just not $80 fun.

Not entirely sure where you guys get your numbers from.

Overwatch is a little over 6GB

I honestly didn't even know it was out yet.

In fact, I really know nothing at all about this game.

Are you retarded ?

See this
and this.

also

The only reason I dislike Battleborn failing is that the takeaway might be "wacky, stylized character designs are bad always forever." As someone who is well past SICK AND TIRED of realism in my games, I don't want another marketing reason for more safe, generic, boring realism. I mean, I don't even like the designs in Battleborn, but the problem isn't that they're weird and stylized whatsoever period, it's that they're bad stylized designs. But I'm pessimistic that marketing types will make that distinction at all. It'll just be "game failed, it wasn't realistic looking, so more realism only." That conclusion won't do me any good.

I'd comment on other reasons it might be failing, but to be honest, I have zero idea how it plays or what you actually do or anything but the character visuals. If they want to blame the failure on poor marketing and the fact that what it did get contained ZERO MEANINGFUL INFORMATION on the actual meat of the game that'd be good. Then again, I'd say the ads for Overwatch have the same problem but it seems to be doing better I guess so… who knows.

Consistency is the key. See: TF2 in pre-cosmetics days.

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Massive over saturated MOBA market where lets face it, the game is good from what I'm told, but its competition is all FREE and you can't compete with free

I am also in their Alpha for Fortnite and it has the same problems of not understanding their market where all your weapons easily break down and you have to spend real life money in order to get mats to make better weapons

Seriously who the fuck is going to spend money on gear that isn't even permanent?

All signs of a company CEO structure out of touch with how "Valuable" its products really are

It was all marketing as to why Overwatch is succeeding but Battleborn is failing. Battleborn is an FPS style ASSFAGGOTS game, but Gearbox were worried of it being known as that sort of game, so they marketed it more as a hero based team based shooter, which resulted in lacklaster sales.

Let me also say

GOD

FUCKING

DAMN

That female constuctors hips and ass in Fortnite

And yes she looks exactly like this in game, and has amazing hip sway

Who did Gearbox steal the money to do this?

It was a MOBA, but then after 2+ years of development and seeing how absolutely fucking flooded the MOBA market is, they called it a "Not a MOBA, its a team competitive shooter"

That Gigantic game has the dev's scrambling to do the same fucking thing, the game has recently gone from P2P to F2P to boot in the last month or so as well

It's obvious that their plan was to be better than overwatch, or at least compete with overwatch's audience.
But the fact is that no company out there, except maybe Activision, EA, or Bethesda, can compete with Blizzard's marketing.
And Activision owns Blizzard anyway.

I want to say it was an ego thing, but I don't know who to blame. To think you could run up against Activision-Blizzard's most hyped game in the past 5 years is absolutely retarded.
Especially when the only game you're known for is something like Borderlands.

Riot/Valve beat them out in the moba competition, but that was because Heroes of the Storm was horrible, and a few years late to an already established scene.

checks IDs friendo

user, what the fuck were you thinking?

Twitch is a pretty good indicator of how popular a game is with casuals. Just look at the difference in viewers there.
Also 4 Blizzard games in top 10. They might not be good games any more but they know how to make a game successful, unlike Gearbox, who just make shit games.

I was thinking of having a fresh shooter since I was burnt from the old (yet good) ones.
I got what I wanted and I still enjoy it so far. The gameplay is far better than you'd think, I fucking hate ASSFAGGOTS but I like this one.

I don't know user, you should just try yourself watching some videos or stuff. As I said before, it's a hit or miss game. It doesnt have cashshop or 20tickrate like Overwatch at least.

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It's weird - TF2 is mostly on life support, full of trading, scamming et al, but it has some servers that are constantly filled and people don't seem like they will be quitting any time soon. And I bet the population will decrease now that OW is out, but then jump straight back up once everyone gets bored of OW.

It's quite sad that TF2 is still the best class team based shooter out there.
The game went to fucking shit to the point that I personally couldnt keep playing it, but it's still the best turd.

This industry is so shit.

It's seemed that way for the past few years even though it's only gotten more popular.
I mean fuck, in the past two weeks near 2,000,000 people played TF2. Do you think fucking Overwatch will get that near a decade after release?

I really don't get this idea of "I couldn't play it anymore because of the drop cancer"

You can go play TF2 without any weapons or hats any time you want. And it's literally the same as when it came out.

youtube.com/watch?v=GH0Ghg0N1xY&feature=youtu.be&t=5m28s

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How the fuck do you spend millions of dollars on something and still produce cringe-worthy bullshit? Goddamn.

Talk shit all you want about Blizzard but those fucking faggots KNOW how to optimize a game holy shit, I played on the F2P weekend on a toaster and it was SILK FUCKING SMOOTH

Can a dev fag answer me why is this? They have good programmers or it is just throwing huge amounts of money at the project?

This right here, Blizz is incapable of doing original character designs, yet Overwatch manage to make a few eye catching ones

Ofc it was only possible because the art designers were perverts, proportions and curves of all females except the butchdyke were on fucking point

It's not because of the drops user. It's because of the community.
It's the same as Ragnarok Online, RO is dead not because the game got old, but because the good old community that made it the best MMO left.

When you have played such a good game that was TF2, playing it right now is like raping your memories of a good game. I tried to keep playing, trust me, I tried.

Im currently in a Battleborn queue, my team got filled but the opponent isn't. It has been waiting for 10 minutes already. I know it's a bad hour to play (13:45 at the moment I'm writing this) but come on, there are always neets

Mike is suppossed to be a joke character that doesn't know what he is talking about. He seriously spout nonsense because it's in character. He says that sentence when he kills Phoebe (a woman), that sentence is just another joke not meant to be taken serious.

I'll be entirely honest, to this day I still have no idea what MOBA/ASSFAGGOTS/whatever you want to call that genre actually is. As far as I know they're some kind of purely PvP Warcraft mod or something, and those two pieces of info alone lead me to assume I couldn't possibly enjoy them. So the FPS part I get, but what the MOBA part means I have no idea. And I'm not even clear on whether Battleborn can be played 100% alone like Borderlands or what.

I think it's that Blizzard understand that in order to sell gazillions you can't just focus on the US and EU markets, but China, India and Russia too; countries where they mostly have toasters to play on: So they program their games to run well on low-end systems, that scales up and the games run well on high-end systems too.

Ah, alright got it.

Dunno I never really payed attention to the community, but it also has to be said that I started TF2 really late so that might be why.

I honestly still enjoy playing it from time to time, the only thing that stops me really is the fact that the game has become a bloated, unoptimized mess through the years.

I'm actually kinda hopeful for a Source 2 port.

Valve is clearly scared about Overwatch and has actually gotten more people back working on the game to stop the community from leaving, so hey, you never know.

Overwatch runs on a blizzard game engine

Like all Blizzard games, they run fantastically well on shitty computers at low/medium settings

However, once you go past that framerates etc start tanking because the engines were never designed to run shit full bore

This is in comparison to Unreal engine, which runs like dog shit on shitty computers, but the more powerful your PC the faster it runs

Unreal 3, 3.5+ and 4 engines are marvels of engineering, but like you said a lot of PC gamers are gaming on 5+ year old laptops that should be "Good enough" and these are the ppl Blizzard caters to, not the hardcore PC gaming crowd that has money to pimp out their machines

Assfaggots used to be legitimately enjoyable. Dota 2, when it was back in beta (2011 or 2012) with events like Frostivus and Greeviling was incredibly fucking fun.

This was before the whole esports and normalfag scene exploded, when you played the game because it was actually fun.

What's there right now is just full of tryhards, with heroes that are completely overpowered, making it impossible to play the game just for fun.

Thick women, either just from having bigger assets or being very fit, doing anything bluecollar is a small kink of mine. We need more women shaped like that in vidya. For some reason reality interpreted my preferences wrong and instead gave us all whales who boss manginas around instead.

Gigantic did everything wrong. The only good thing it has going for it are a few character designs, but besides those few designs they decided to make the game Win10/Xbone only, absolutely refused to go into any details about how they intend for people spend money on the game, and make the overall gameplay design a matter of who is slightly less bad at not getting hit in a tiny ass map. Its matches take about as long as Battleborn's, but match flow is even worse since there's barely any real game mechanics or interaction going on.

I think the biggest things that will guarantee the death of Overwatch are the insistence of making every player go through matchmaking just to play the game, and the inability by the playerbase to create maps. If Valve didn't let people use Hammer and host servers with whatever maps anyone makes, then TF2's playerbase would be much smaller than it currently is.

The more money your budget has, the more the people with the money insist that their say should always override the smart developers' say. Also Anthony Burch wrote for this game

Girls with visible muscle are nice, but there's a world of difference between a character like Zarya and Chun-Li. Humping one of Chun-Li's legs would be better than intercourse with Zarya, since the latter has boxy, unshapely legs that are even more disproportionate to her torso, her shoulders are broader than her hips, and her breasts look like they were implanted with how they're only there to help you indicate that Zarya's female.

TF2 is almost 9 years old. Just, holy fuck man. And I remember pre-ordering the Orange Box and playing the TF2 beta (pic related).

Hopefully Unreal Engine 4 gets better optimized down the line, because I know almost every game dev is gonna use it thanks to the engine being free(until you make money), Epic shilling and development trends running off from UE3. Right now is the worst time for anyone to get into UE4 for everyone, user and developer alike, unless you have a PC that's already futureproofed for the 2020s.

You'd have to play them to understand what exactly it means, or just read some faggot's description.
It's sorta like WC3 except you only handle your hero and with other 4 faggots gotta take on a team of 5 idiots in a battle for map control and resources which help you buy items which help you push into the enemy base and ultimately win.

Wew lad, it took me 12 minutes to find a match this morning. At least the game is still enjoyable, but there's nothing to enjoy if there are no players except for the campaign that I already grinded quite a lot.

I'd love to play TF3, sign me in.

It's probably gonna be more of a TF2.5

and for some reason battleborn thought they could get away with a 60 dollar price tag holy shit

Do you still handle the hero WC3 style by clicking where you want to go as opposed to more direct control? Because if so, boo to that. I HATE click-to-move, as opposed to classic pressing the stick/d-pad in the direction you want to move. And being purely team-based PvP on top of that? Definitely not the genre for me then, as I assumed.

I guess being an FPS would fix the control issue, but I'm getting the feeling Battleborn would still be too PvP-focused for me. I'm a PvE campaign mode sorta guy.

Yeah, they are WC3 mods and DOTA/LOL still follow the same gameplay model.
Also you only get like 4 abilities with heroes, +2 spells in LoL and around 3-6 rather unique item abilities in DotA.

SMITE made it a third person action game instead set under the same rules I think.

sorry fam, MLG only

Battleborn is a FPS under the ASSFAGGOTS model, while Overwatch is TF2 dumbed down with MOBA mixed in.
I heard Battleborn had a PvE campaign but I highly doubt that would be the focus of the game.

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When someone comes up with the idea of having a penguin driving a mech (I think that's what that picture is), NOBODY with a brain between their ears would picture it in the smug dreamworks shit style.

Probably sounded cool and then the same people who made Borderlands (terrible world and humor) fucked it up as usual.
Borderlands was a great idea, but after 20 hours in both 1 and 2 I dropped them both because of how shit the characters and writing where.
Gearbox is the definition of "cancer" as 4chan likes to use it.
Game company that just ruins good ideas.

Lets hope, that Randy gets shat upon and Gearbox finally dies, it's what they deserve for what they did with the Aliens game, what they did to Interceptor Entertainment and generally for what a gigantic asshole Randy is.

I will forever hate Gearbox and Randy for leading Interceptor by the nose and then promptly shitting upon them when they saw how Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded outclassed Forever.
They don't deserve the Duke Nukem license and I hope they die quick before they make another game from it.

Oscar Mike, Marquis, ISIC, Whiskey Foxtrot, Montana, Rath, Phoebe, Ambra, Orendi, Toby all do this

ALL THE CHARACTERS HAVE THE EXACT SAME PERSONALITY. ALL OF THEM.

If "wacky, stylized character designs" means shit like LE GENTLESIR ROBOT and TEH MECHA PENGUIN OF DOOM XD then I'm totally ok with the industry as a whole shunning them.

It's not the focus but it's important. It brings grind and other stuff, also the campaign is not trash it's actually decent.

I agree. Toby design is an overly cute penguing that goes saying "Sorry" nonstop and being polite to even his opponents.
24 hours in paint pic related.

That's not true, they all have different personalities for the exception of Mike and Whiskey which are clones. Whiskey takes a piss of Mike repeating some of his sentences.

In that case neither are the game for me. I like being the one hero mowing down tons of enemies. For all their faults, the Borderlands games at least gave me that much.

Also seriously, as far as I know the Borderlands series sold well, why haven't we gotten more games taking the good parts of them and fixing the problems? Are FPS games with RPG elements really so hard to make?

I don't like those characters either, but if they're shunned in favor of more generic realism, then it's just a choice between two equally bad things as I see it.

In fact, I will show you! You know how characters in TF2 and Overwatch and other Character-based games have some sort of differing personalities based on their design?

Guess: Which Battleborn character said these lines?

A: Oscar Mike
B: Marquis
C: Rath
D: Ambra
E: Phoebe
F: Orendi

1: "Look, children! It's a bad ass!"
2: "Dude. Science is fucked up."
3: "Looks like you are in the red! Blood. I am referring to your blood."
4: "The penalty for smooth moves is death!"
5: "I am sustained! You are totally not!"
6: "I eat sentries for breakfast! Then I go to the hospital!"

A:6 B:3 C:5 D:1 E:2 F:4

I.m glad this piece of shit flopped

I got them all correct nigger.
And even when you tried to cherry pick in some of 'em.

The dialogue is hit or miss, some are really good, others are fucking trash that I wish could be removed from the game.

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If I were a shill I'd not say how many shitty things Gearbox did on the game. For fucks sake, I'm even bashing a lot of it, check the thread faggot.

It's not bragging, I'm telling you that it's easy to see which one of them are just by the looks of it. The only ones that for someone that have not played before would be Marquis with Phoebe.

No it's not easy. Every single character yells quirky lines or the do the hi-larious thing of over explaining a joke in a soft spoken tone after yelling something quirky.

But I'm not as versed in this game as you are, Gearbox Superfan, so I got a question for you. What's the difference in personality between Ambra and Marquis? Oscar Mike and Toby? Do not make any reference to anything physical or their occupation.

Who gives a fuck what gearbox's marketing department thinks, as long as they crash and burn that's fine with me. Everyone else would see that overwatch and tf2 did much better than that shit.

Nigger, I hate them, I only have Borderlands 1 bought from them and this.
I hate Anthony Burch, I hated Borderlands 2 and the rest of Gearbox shit. I'm honest while saying that Battleborn is the only decent (yet not great, by no means) game they have pulled since Borderlands 1.
However, it's a game that you either like or hate. It doesn't seem to be something in between.

Now to answer your questions:

Ambra detests emotions, loves to shout, loves fire and chaos.
Marquis is a buttler that loves money and detest everyone else that is not rich: seeing them as hobos. He is an overprotective maniac, he is what you would expect from a rich European nobleman from the 50-70s. He is one of the best designed characters in the game hands down.

Oscar Mike is what you would expect from a 12 year old that tries really hard to be a grown up soldier. He whines about hacks or shit that is not fair when it's not on his favour meanwhile praising everything that is on his favour. Believing he's the best with attention whoring since he's insecure.
Toby is a penguing that hates to be called cute even if he is. He's polite with everyone even with the enemy, he's depressive and shy. Quotes to clearly tell the personality of Toby would be "I deserve that" while dying sometimes or "I believe in you buddy, you're doing great" when he's seeing an opponent.

I never played Ambra neither Toby, but I see a lot of Tobys online, not so many Ambras.

That's not a good thing. The game has fundamental flaws that were never addressed, primarily Pyro and Spy being worthless for anyone worth a shit. Instead the only changes to the game are bizarre nerfs and buffs that constantly swing back and forth and then tons of shitty weapons that blur classes with the only goal behind the weapon is to give shitty players an extra kill here and there. The game is shit.

GAS THE ARENA SHOOTERS

FPS WAR NOW

The game won't be populated by just expert players, I don't see what's wrong with having classes that are easier for newer players.

Weapons don't really matter if you deactivate them, as I was suggesting in my post

THREAD THEME FOR RANDY

...

One of his battlecries is shouting Friendship.

His quotes: youtu.be/4QIWs9HX2bA?t=4m51s

I personally don't like the over cuteness, but hey, if some people do why not. I love his view though, it feels like you're inside a mech.

This is the problem with a lot of these hero/class based games which have been made recently. And the problem with modern TF2.

Original TF2 had some focus to it's design. Valve picked a setting, 50s Spy fiction and designed every class with that theme in mind.

Nowdays devs just do "whatever we think sounds cool". Even Valve fell for this with the way some of the classes have changed.

...

Oh fuck some of them are quite alright.

steamcharts.com/app/440

63,623 playing 29 min ago

It gets 50k + NEW players almost every month. There are 33 million + people who "own" it on Steam, have played it at least once.

I'm afraid of the marketing departments at other places coming to that conclusion based on Battleborn failing, not Gearbox's. Gearbox is clearly a lost cause no matter what.

And if the lesson is that Overwatch's character designs are what sells, that's only slightly better, because I don't really think highly of its characters either. They're only better in that they overall just played it safer. They used bland in place of Battleborn's weird-in-a-bad-way, and that's not good so much as merely less bad. Neither have any designs I particularly like, Overwatch is just more consistently meh tier.

Its what I've been saying. The dialogue is hit or miss, like most of the game. Some of them are awful, some of them are great.

That's concurrent players, I'm talking total players.

not being able to crack 6 digit viewership is pathetic for a game that just came out.

What's some good dialogue, Superfan? All I hear is shit. But maybe you can tell us your favorite lines and change all of our minds.

There are more people right now playing Empire Total War then there are playing Battleborn, there are more people right now playing Metal Gear Solid V, a failure of a game, then there are playing Battleborn, there are more people right now playing Undertale, a story driven single player game then there are Battleborn, there are about the same amount of people currrently playing Battleborn as there are people fiddling with their EVGA PrecisionX tool.

Just take a moment to let this monumental failure sink in.

Well, last time I tried playing the comp beta, which was supposed to revive it a little bit, we were 25 people in total.

If you consider players most of the bots idling to get items and "friendly" pubbing, yeah, it has players, but the game itself is on its last legs.

That beta was super closed though, I didn't even know how the fuck to access it and I actually wanted to

Well, I don't quite know how you'd want to do this but I could give you an invite.

Not like it'd serve you much as the beta is quite dead, but I haven't checked in a while.

...

Jesus Christ, both of these cancerous games and companies need to die, and fast.

I was just playing mate. I'm not on the board 24/7.

The dialogue, as I said, is hit or miss. It will always depend on a subjective matters. Some personal lines that I like would be Marquis when blinded "My eye! My beautiful and expensive eye!" or "I can see low income houses from here". Rath when killing someone who is running away "there's no honor in killing someone who runs, but honor is o-ver-rated".

It is not the lines per se, it is how they say it and when. However, this is MY personal opinion on characters that I do play.
Some people enjoy the LolSoRandom Orendi when I fucking hate her guts and I fail to find a good line from her.

I'll say it again, I'm not a shill. If I were a shill I'd try to sell the game saying how great it is, when it's by no means great. It's just decent, that's all, take it or leave it.

I haven't seen a single Battleborn shill. The only Battleborn thread we had that was legit without shitpost ad infinitum were about four guys talking about the things we didn't like in the game, in fact we helped two guys in the thread who were in the verge of buying it to not do it because we told them the truth. If someone doesn't like it, it's their taste and that's great, its an opinion that needs to be respected.

By the way, you can tell who bought the season pass, below their character selection (which is shown on the bottom right of this picture) the base where the character is, its golden and mine isnt. Meaning that I didnt buy the season pass and I don't intend to because I consider it fucking stupid.

Again, this is my opinion, you have yours and people have theirs.

There's a lot of potential in Battleborn, but they're way too slow on the updates and there's a lot of what I'd consider core functionality missing.

One thing that really fucks the game up is that hero selection is so god damn basic. We need at the very least to be able to change character while in the selection phase, to actually get some team synergy going. It's also close to essential that we get some MOBA-esque way of seeing what the other team is going for, allowing for meta-strategy and counters to come into play.

Nah, thanks anyways user. I'll wait until it goes public

What the fuck is up with the level 5 helix choice "Full Saturation" for Alani?
That shit is absolutely bonkers. 6 seconds of complete immunity to damage?

It annoys me when newly released heroes are obviously broken.

I agree. There's a workaround that in the character selection screen you can just open the chat or use voice chat to be in an agreement to have a good team synergy with your teammates. You have two minutes to do so even.

I'd like for them to add a Rank queue and let us see what they pick and ban some characters, like in draft mode.

What are you talking about mate? Am I missing something? I dont have the season pass so I dont have access to her since she's still in Beta. She'll be out for the rest of the people in monday.

Forgot to add. +100% Damage reduction means that you have x2 defenses, not that you are inmune to damage. It's just that stacks with Damage Reduction items.

There's a couple Battleborn shills on Holla Forums.
Are they in this thread?

Yep

Did you make sure to type xDDD in chat you horse's ass?

why

Mike Ross please. Rath is voiced by the same guy who voiced Vegeta, his voice is top tier making many of Rath's lines good in my opinion.
Nigger, I don't give a flying fuck what you think. If you want to shitpost because you don't have anything else to do, great, have fun.
I'll keep having fun playing the game that you think it's shit.

Nice touch but fuck gearbox anyhow.

More importantly, how's overwatch? Kinda want some more TF2 games and tf2 has gotten a little stale.

Battleborn's reddit is a gold mine. Those people are so pathetic.

Failbox is terrible, but Borderlands 2 is fucking time consuming. I spent 2 months on it and it isnt finished yet.

If you are actually planning to buy Overwatch, something that you really shouldn't do ethically, you should probably wait to see how well Blizzard is going to support it.

Buying into it now to get fucked in a few months if everybody gets tired of it is a waste of money

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Overwatch feels more MOBA than arena FPS. Getting into games is quick and matches don't last more than ~8 minutes. Unlike TF2 you get matched with people around your skill level. Bastion is stupid easy to use.

no you like being able to modify your game or make custom modes at all? if so, don't bother because Blizzard cracks down on that shit hard after they lost DotA.

Good voices can only help shit writing so much, my man.

Overwatch as a whole is just too fucking easy, it doesn't feel like a FPS, I just don't feel challenged in the aiming part at all, everything is too slow and I've had a harder time keeping my aim on target in shitty browser games than OW,

...

Why can't modern devs just stick to one type of game anymore? Why does everything have to be a half-assed melting pot of genres?

Its shit and its only succeeding due to marketing and Blizzard.

Dont touch it user

Indeed, still, even shit writing can have from time to time good lines. A good voice actor does wonders user, but they are not wizards.

Because they are scared of being original. If another company made a TF2 copy that was actually better than TF2 I'd be playing that right now instead of Battleborn.

Because of Funimation we have a Super Saiyan taunt that is fucking out of place. The worst of all, that taunt is for the nigress. I'm mad every single time I see it. If you want to check it out and tear your eyes out, its from Reyna.

battleborn is LITERALLY one of the worst games i've ever played
my mates bought it for a laugh and it was terribly bad
if you've ever heard someone talk about ass faggots with was like that, but worse
imagine the feel of superman 64 in the style of DOTA with COD controls

I didn't know any of this. I can't believe they wouldn't just put this game on the back burner for a few months so it doesn't directly compete with Overwatch. What a bunch of fucking retards.

They should've done that to be honest, yes.
Release the game later / Give the Season Pass for free the first month you buy the game / Give 50% off for the first two weeks for the game.
You know, SOMETHING if they wanted to compete with Blizzard. But Gearbox is fully retarded, what do you expect.

There's also people at microshaft and SE that thought releasing fag raider with Fallout 4 would be a good idea

these are veterans of the industry

And they still can't make basic logic decisions

It's like a horrible nightmare you can't wake up from

Blizz banned people for mods on starcraft.

if companies are so willing to shill on the internet and in public then it wouldn't surprise me if they have shills infiltrating competing companies as well to feed them intentionally bad advice from the inside.

Keiji Inafune fucked up Capcom beyond repair and he wasn't what you're implying.
I think that the veterans at the industry are legit retarded.

I don't think there's a single sane person in the industry shit is fucked.

Did the VA's kill themselves after saying those? Thats the worst thing I've ever seen.

Well i got Oscar Kike right the first time, the rest aren't edgy/childish enough to be him.

The old Jap devs are especially out of touch with the current climate.

wow, thats BAD writing

everything

I would absolutely still fuck Zarya because butch girls are hot as balls, but you make a good point; she really is just a guy from GoW with boobs.

Oscar Mike doesn't actually say "Feminism is awesome!", does he?

DEUS VULT

They also had that pin for loot crate that came out this month's power set. It couldn't even compete with an infinity gauntlet oven mitt.

Other than being locked and dipping below 30 fps constantly, battleborn's other problem is character design, trying to make it like borderlands with its humor and cluttered level design. It looks like a giant mess when all 4 of these things come together on their own and during the actual combat.

Yep. right here.

if overwatch werent afraid to give theri female characters huge tits like mei (who hides them) theyd top lol easy

From what I read in the comments it's, when spoken in context, sort of a tongue in cheek joke about killing women being equality.
Still retarded voicing though.

Let's see…

This is heartwarming, I love that game.

they could have built up a fan base by not charging 60 dollars for a fucking moba with a horrible art direction and 13 year olds sense of humor.

id love to have my heart warmed but its dota

One thing that also heavily affects the current popularity of the game is the woeful performance, which just got even worse after the latest update.

Another thing is that they insist on patching all platforms at the same time, meaning that the PC players have to wait an ungodly amount of time for frustrating bugs and blatant imbalance to be fixed.

Furthermore, their matchmaking system was designed by a retarded toddler, leading to long queue times and imbalanced games too often. Instead of just gathering a pool of 10 players of varied skill levels and shuffling them around to get two teams with the same average, the matchmaking system finds 5 players of about equal skill, and then it tries to find another team of 5 players. The longer it takes, the more likely it is that it just says "fuck it" and takes whatever team it can get. This is possibly the absolute worst way to do matchmaking in a low population game.

Surely you're exaggerating a bit

battleborn surprisingly has a lot of voice acting for a shooty shooty gaem.
the chatter during the announcement of pve mission objectives can vary each time you play a mission. and it is dependent on who is with you on the mission. those characters will then also give different answers from time to time.
then theres the pvp banter: multiple lines for killing specific characters with specific characters and you will automatically warn your comrades in the vincinity when you see enemies. you will also name which enemies you see.
and the sentry you have to guard will have a character dependent chat when you leave your base.

its kinda crazy. i wonder who came up with this in the first place. seems like a lot of work.
i like it though. some of the remarks are pretty funny and it makes you like the characters over time. because lets face it: the first impression isnt that good/as good as similiar games.

NOOO!

twitter.com/MarcheWasRight/status/736151279043366913

he says that after killing female battleborn though, so make of that what you will

Oh don't be so sure! Anthony Burch is confirmed to have contributed to Blunderborn!
There are also some lines about respecting his female combatants and shit like that.

during the overwatch open beta i was surprised at how little banter there was between the characters considering how much focus there is on the characters.
as an example, surely mercy has more to say to reinhardt than that he is getting old.

Who writes this down and thinks it sounds good.

...

THIS ass.

Compare it to SMITE where each god has a voicepack, then individual skins can also have their very own separate voicepacks, like say Bacchus' elvis-skin talks exactly like Elvis and has different lines, Nox's voodoo-queen skin talks like a southern nigger with different lines and so on.

And thats 50+ voice command lines you can use yourself with quick chat commands, with also added in voices for when the character gets out of a dodgy situation without dying, when the god dies, when he kills someone, when the god kills a god from his own mythology, when you buy items that give power, when you buy items which give defence, when you buy wards, when you destroy objectives with separate lines for each objective, and many more.

They're not talking all the time but whenever something significant happens on screen, the god will comment on it. Then you got the quick chat system with more than 50 lines you can use.

what does that even mean? its a fact, im not making that up.

that whole argument is blown out of proportion.
i honestly cant remember hearing them, but i mostly used oscar mike for pve, so maybe because of that.
hes genuinely enjoyable though for me, most of his remarks are pretty funny in the situation he makes them.

Mike is a beast in PvE. I can solo everything in Advanced Hardcore with him.
Easy to use, long range, nice DPS, extra crits damage perk, AoE cleaning granades, AoE cleaning ultimate, invisibility to get out of bad positions that can give you shield regen. Just give him Health regen items for PvE and you'll do everything with him.

So that is why there are so many lines that are fucking shit and others are good. I bet that the shit ones are made by him.

I love how every character has more than 20 minutes of full voice lines without counting the story mode or what they say on the Lore.
I even got fucking surprised when I finished Montana's Lore. Usually the Lore of a character when finished is them speaking with someone, or talking about their past, some event but Montana, out of the fucking blue vid related.

Jesus Christ this place is infested with shills.
Atleast this works as a containment thread.

(20)
You're off to a good start.

Why did it flop so spectacularly? Well…

Take you pick at reasons why it failed.I choose to believe it's because it's fucking awful premise.

They got Blizzard'd on two fronts. Not only did they literally get wrecked by Blizzard's superior hype building that would make Todd Howard envious. But just like WoW has fucking smashed and eaten all its competition just because it's the largest. There's already a fuckton of ASSFAGGOTS games that do what it does better, cheaper, and with an established userbase.

I hope it bankrupts Gearbox so I don't have to see their ugly artstyle and shitty meme writing ever again.

Did OW succeed because of waifus?

with or without waifus Blizzard can just drown out any and all competition because they're marketing team are larger and more ingrained than all other companies combined.

I stopped at 30 seconds. Nothing about Toby is charming.

Pandering to sjws/tumblr kiddies with Zarya and Mei and fake drama over a pose help with ads too.

Shitty dialogue with sjw-enforced bullshit and meme faggotry didn't help Memelands: the Prequel.

Hell, Tales of the Memelands is already a mix bag: you either like it or you don't.

SocialJusticeLands 3 would probably be worse than 2 and the Prequel.

GET FUCKED RANDI, YOU SNAKE SON OF A WHORE!

How did you guys miss that?

why can't gearbox just fucking die already

i don't think I'll ever play hardcore. Most advanced missions are batshit insane with >3 players, cant imagine doing them with 1 life only. recently did the heliophage with OM and had 35 revives, it's unreal.

if the new pve missions are good I'll maybe think about getting them - when I'm still playing the game by then and the price is fair. I originally wasn't even interested in the coop, but it's surprisingly fun

If you post some info about your steam account or something I'll gladly add you and run some Adv Hardcore with ya. Trust me, Its easier than you think.

I don't play on PC anymore, my only windows machine is a toaster.
played advanced only on public with mostly 5 players and the difficulty seems to have some kind of random element: sometimes the team gets obliterated in a matter of minutes without making any major mistakes. it seems to be easier overall the fewer players are in the game.

mainly it's the heliophage I'm having problems with. and the archive can get pretty bullshitty too, the sentry dies really quick

thanks though

Heliophage balance with people is fucked up.
Mainly because the more players there are, the more bosses AT THE SAME TIME they throw at you. So when you are soloing it, you are doing a gauntlet of bosses one by one.
Meanwhile if you are for example in a duo, you do a guantlet of duo bosses.
They give more exp and better drop, yes. But it's usually not worth to do the Heliophage, I found best to do the Isic map, the biggest number of bosses are there so it's easier to farm for epics.

However, if you're looking for specific legendaries that's another thing.

No problem I just hope that you get a better toaster soon.

...

Oh man you don't know how happy I'd be.

I wonder how would Battleborn be with competent devs.

It'd be shit just like it already is.

Why does Gearbox think "badass" = cringey comedy and deviantart character design?

She looks like Tara Strong.

Hot as fuck. Too bad it probably sucks.

So there are loads of porn for Overwatch, what about this game?

Mostly porn of the bird guy. Thanks furries.

When I played the Battleborn beta, my feelings were that there was a lot of shit going on, but barely any of it felt particularly interesting or rewarding.

It's like, okay, you've got your hero, right? Your hero has a basic attack and maybe a secondary attack, and 1 or 2 passive effects, and 2 or 3 abilities, but they also have this whole 10 level skill helix, where you choose between 2 different passive bonuses to your abilities every time you level up, and you can unlock new choices on your helix by leveling up your character rank (bringing the total choices to 3 for some levels), and then you have this currency you get in-game that you can spend it on buildings in the game world that don't really seem to do much, or you can spend it on equipment that you selected before the battle–oh right, so there's equipment that you collect after a match, and each piece provides some kind of mixed minor passive stat bonuses or negatives, but they only do something once they've been activated during the match, so on top of managing your ~25 different level-up options you're also trying to decide if you want to build a turret or activate a minor stat bonus throughout the match. And then it's like, okay, now do this for the 25 or so different heroes that you unlock as you play the game, and then keep in mind that each hero has its own set of unlockable story bits, and costumes, and taunts, and then you have your command rank that I didn't even really figure out the purpose of…

It's like, all of this shit goes so counter to having a fun and fast-paced FPS, or whatever the fuck they want to call this. This game isn't like DOTA, there isn't nearly enough strategic depth to justify the amount of shit you have to learn up-front, and absolutely none of it is interesting enough to compel people to *want* to learn it–the vast majority of it feels like completely artificial and pointless grinding.

I'd much rather have 1 or 2 inherently complex things that impact the game in a major way than like 8 different things that all really minor impacts on the game by themselves, and that's where this game fails *hard*. The only way it's going to succeed is if they make it Free to Play, because that's what it feels like already.

tl;dr: It's shit, regardless of blizz marketing and comparisons to other games.

i wanna shoot my ambrosia between those jugs

Artist is RandomBoobGuy if I remember right. You're welcomed.

Command rank is there to unlock characters if you dont want to unlock them by doing challenges.
Hey, it's your taste/opinion and you left your impression on why you don't like it. That's okay mate, not your thing I can understand it.

...

I'm getting really fucking tired of comedians who carry their jokes too far, and for that matter, try to summarize/explain them.

...

I just had a few matches without a problem neither with so long queue.

Where are you from? This is not happening in EU, however I get here long ass queue due to the lack of players when it's morning. It starts getting people after 5-6pm, most players seem to be around 8-10pm.

my 2 cents

puu.sh/p8ISP/a313a43e48.png
puu.sh/p8IU9/de69c857d5.png

Before I head to bed I can answer a few things.
Oscar Mike M1 is actually really great with a high DPS, it's just that you didn't properly play him (you didnt choose his proper Helix upgrades). For example, he gets a Helix that gives him +50% damage on headshot (or you can choose for Tactical rounds affect the entire mag instead of half of it) and another Helix that gives him +18% damage on everything which can melt any character if used right. He just needs a lot of reload speed in his loadout and attack speed (which affects the firing speed too).
Almost all characters have a good M1, you just need a proper build to make it work and the most important: aim. Orendi is THE Nukiest character and her M1 is not as good as Mike's, since you said "only burst chars have good M1" as a heads up.

The only problem I find legit that you said is how minions bump into you when you're chasing someone and start bodyblocking you due to your big hitbox if you're a tank making you unable to move till you notice the minion and push it away. Also needing to change the steam download for it, but this problem is because there are no players mainly (I didnt know this problem existed).

Maps are small for one simple reason: To reach for the action fast and make the game faster, not just a snore fest trying to reach the middle.

I tried Overwatch and it totally feels way worse than BB. It totally made me feel that I was playing a shiny Chinese TF2, making me wish I was playing TF2 instead. There's no reason for me to buy OW, it will go F2P eventually knowing Blizzard.

Your other complain was about the casual fun. BB is more niche, therefore it will get people that are more 'motivated' to play it than in OW which is a casual fest and the dumbest FPS I've ever seen so far.

When you git gud in a game, you'll feel way better playing it.

As a bonus since you were talking about something hitting home, Calderis in Battleborn hit me home when I was learning how to bunny hop. This guy as an Helix that let's you bunny hop and go faster than sprinting, you don't know how good it feels flying around with him just bunny hopping and fucking everyone up.

tl;dr: It's your opinion, play whatever the fuck you want. I'm just here to clarify questions and say what's true and what's not, I'm not the fun police.

No, I do know how to play Oscar, I assassinate ton of people with him. The problem is, I need play the game like a "moba" when I do that, I can't rely on "shooter" aspects. So yeah, napalm strike + try finish the enemy with mouse1 (attack speed items help).

The shooter aspect in this game is seriously missing. Maybe I brought this upon myself by thinking this would be the "tf2 casual, whilst ow will be the tf2 comp" (regarding how they play), when in fact it looks like BB is way too much moba for that to be true.

This is a moba in a shooter, not a shooter in a moba.
The game is highly competitive however, and aim is really needed.

BB has nothing of TF2. If you want a TF2 without playing TF2, yes, OW will be better for you. Although I personally think that TF2 is way way better than OW.

Do whatever you want man, just enjoy yourself, don't give a shit to whatever people tell you.