Game has deep gameplay mechanics

Are you literally new?

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4chan started it but Reddit killed it.

Have you been in a coma for the past half decade?

why don't you post it on 4chan, then

Of fucking course it started on halfchan, i'm not retarded. Noone uses those shit "rage faces", or whatever reddit calls them, here anymore. Fuck off with that cancer shit.

Fucking internet hipsters with their "W-well it's popular so it must be shit!"

M8, you must be pretty fucking new if you think black-and-white face doodles like that are acceptable these days.

Boss?

kill everything without breaking your legs, all will be revealed through the legs

a double edged post

Starting at rock bottom in stylish action games is hell.

Fucking modern Zelda games. First 2 hours is nothing but a long ass hallway of tutorials. Then half way through the game it still throws more bullshit tutorials at you for things that you'll ever only do once or twice, right after it fucking teaches you how to do it and then never again.

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God Hand is designed to give you years of playtime.

You beat the game, and then realize that it only gets harder from there. Before you even can consider touching hardmode you have to be able to deal with lvl Die for more than 5ms.
Once you beat hardmode, then you have one last challenge with the hardmode KMS run and a couple less fun runs like no health upgrades and such.

And if you like ruining the game for your e-peen you can do a no move upgrades run.

You either quit early, or emerge years later as a Godhand.

Im sorry user, I have bad news for you.

Get the fuck out
Dont even lurk moar
Just leave this site forever

Why the fug would anyone take the time out of their lives to learn about this convoluted bullshit?

And from what people describe it, that game is pure insanity and sadism.

How do you enjoy this?

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Some people have imaginations.

DF is no where near as bad as people make it out to be, other than the military, most of the controls are displayed and the functions are self explanatory.

Take a few hours with a guide to get a feel for what you're looking at, and get a tileset if you can't stand the beauty of ASCII you uncultured faggot

In terms of what you do, there's a lot to digest, but it all in a logical order and everything makes sense

Dwarves starve and go crazy
Dwarves go sober and go crazy
You get wrecked by goblins

Once you grasp what you're looking at, it's no where near as confusing as the horror stories would make it out to be.

was going to make a comment about dorf fort and its 90-degree learning curve but fucking OP is probably talking about witcher or some shit

it's more about using your imagination and immersing yourself in the world you've made.

ss13 was fairly easy to get into once I realized that I had to do every little action myself.
ie once I figured out lighting a smoke entailed
every fucking time I was able to apply that line of thinking to other actions
and then I looked at the code and all my sense of wonderment went away immidiately

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What is actually so bad about dwarf fortress?

Is it the ascii? All that takes is some practice and judicious use of examination keys.

Is it the inner workings? You don't have to understand the modeling of every dwarf's toenails and fat to understand that he will die if someone hits him in the head with a hammer.

The micromanagement? Not only do utilities exist to alleviate that, but it isn't even that bad to begin with. The worst you have to do is assign labors and set up military squads, anything past that is just trying to be extra efficient.

The expansive world, including spoilers? Just wing it bro, experience will bring that.

Yeah there's an initial hump to get over if you want to start playing, but that's true of literally any game that does not have a tutorial. It's fine, man, just watch a tutorial video.

NEVER EVER

There's a difference between being too lazy or otherwise not wanting to learn, and legit being too stupid to wrap your head around it.

On the other hand…

There is literally no excuse. In that very fucking screenshot there is a big list of commands you can input. If the name of the command isn't self explanatory (Gee, I wonder what k: look does?) you can figure out by fucking pressing it.

ASCII is learnable and if that still isn't enough there are a multitude of player-made graphic sets that assign an easily identifiable icon to fucking everything.

It's a simple goddamn game.

The fuck are you expecting? That you click on the vending machine and it just gives you some kind of status effect? Christ man.

It's the reputation and the ascii. They see something "complex" so their brain shuts down before they can even TRY to give it a fair shake, and then all they know is that their mind melted so it's too hard.

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Nerd cred.
You don't. The core game isn't even good, it's just something poorfags and hipsters play ironically.

You cranked your sensitivity way up, didn't you?

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Bayo 1 in a nutshell

I have no idea, going into ss13 absolutely blind was a strange experience.
The simple number of steps required to complete each action was really surprising, and in the best possible way.

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Roguelikes were too much for my single digit aged brain.

The worst sin. Weird example, but FF10-2 has some neat movement mechanics in battle, but you can just ignore it. Why implement a mechanic and then not use it?

Fair, but kinda shallow.
EYE really isn't as complicated as everyone makes it out to be. You can just play it like any other shooter and you'll make it to the end. You wont understand what's going on, but the gameplay really isn't that complex. Deus Ex is more complicated.

Have you at least played and beaten DM:MM?

EYE is understandable, because it's honestly just not that good a game, but DM:MM Is straight up the best game on source.

I always forget that Dark Messiah is a source game.
Maybe I just don't have enough experience with source games, but it doesn't look like one at all.

It has that particular look that Source games have, but it doesn't play like one, while EYE really does have that sourcemod feel to it.

Hey guys, what is going on in this thread?

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I'm on a shitty windows phone. Nothing I can do about it, I'm afraid.

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Yeah, that's enough for me. Maybe I'm just retarded, though.

ARPGs were a mistake.

One day I'll make it.

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disgusting, probably ps3/360 babies to boot

And to add on to this:
What's that? You want to experiment and try out all the mechanics to see what build suits your play style? Without resetting and replaying the first hour of gameplay 10 times?
Haha no, fuck you.

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Allowing respeccing in ARPGs was a mistake.

As soon as that became the norm, level design went out the window since you can now experience all mechanics in a single playthrough, so there was no need to optimize the level design to eliminate tedious sections that aren't fun to replay.

Oh please, level design went out the window because devs turned into lazy sacks of shit across the industry. Respeccing has nothing to do with it. Even Diablo 2, arguably the apex of the ARPG genre, has respeccing.

user that was literally added 10 years after release in a patch.

Can't disagree with this, but as a player, this isn't my fault. Resetting the game and making a new build is tedious and adding a way to respec fixes that from my perspective.

If you wanted to fix the problem you presented, you could make respecing have a significant cost. Or at least enough that you wouldn't do it every 10 mins. Nothing ridiculous, but like 10,000G per repec in a game where you get 1000 or so G per quest. Or maybe an experience penalty. Just some kind of block that dissuades the player from flip flopping and makes them think about what they want, while also still having the respec option if they REALLY want it.
The player would end up being the same build for an extended period of time, so you'd end up with a similar result. The dev couldn't bank on the player having all the abilities at once.

But that's just theoretical and I can't expect all devs to do that.
This isn't my fault, though. Laziness is a problem for devs, not me. If I'm too lazy or impatient to reset the game and make a new character, that's a failing of the game for being tedious. Games are meant to be fun, if they're tedious, they've failed somewhere. Asking for something convenient like respecing isn't wrong, is it? Blaming respecing for ruining level design is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. I guess it would fix the problem, but I don't think it's worth the cost and, ultimately, doesn't fix the underlying problem: lazy devs.

Table familiarity is the key to winning pinball.

All of that is really just a symptom of playing games with shitty level design, though. If the game is good and has great level design, beating it and starting a new character to tackle it in an entirely different way is exciting.

I agree 100% that respeccing can make mediocre games more tolerable, and that it is preferable to have it in a mediocre game, but I think it really dis-incentivizes good level design and is used as a crutch in the development phase.

Compare the level design of Diablo 1 and 2 to 3, which was had respeccing as a core mechanic. I put thousands of hours into D2, and I couldn't even bring myself to play through D3 twice.

Another great example would be Dark Souls 1 vs 2 and 3. Exact same situation as Diablo.

It's definitely a lazy dev problem, but I think there's a sort of circular reasoning where players now expect respeccing, so devs build the game around that feature, and the first thing to go always seems to be solid, replayable level design.

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And tbh, space station 13 looks just as bad when it comes to it. I tried it and it was kinda worse than i thought it would be Except when it comes to imagination and storytelling from what i hear of, but never experienced.

It may be a "simple goddamn game", but it looks and plays almost nothing like one. Dosent really bother me that much but im not that much of a weirdo to play it.

Thats why DF is so deep in the non-normalfag game tier list i guess.
The one with the glacier then it goes down to the seafloor

KYS anytime

It's called lazyness

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oh man OP really triggered some idiots didnt he

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You don't need intelligence to understand deep mechanics, you need patience and persistence.

The feeling of accomplishment is a good incentive, Dwarf Fortress is probably the most "fulfilling" game I can think of. Despite the ridiculous difficulty curve, it's one of the best simulation/city building games out there, so it's worthwhile to learn how to play it if you like the genre.

I remember games like Warcraft and even Starcraft, where the campaign was actually a tutorial in disguise, just like that intro stage of Megaman X.

Games are not harder, devs are lazier and don't like making proper tutorials.

Learn by doing is entirely ok though.
Adds some exploration charm to it.

A game like Terraria doesn't need a tutorial.

what is master of magic

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Kill me

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I know that feel..
You own the game faggot, not me. How you such ass?

Dwarf Fort looks like fun, but the controls are like operating some sort of convoluted build console.

Sure, you'll slowly learn what all the buttons eventually do in like a week or so depending how well you learn, but I'd rather start investing that sort of time into the skill of the game rather than memorization of mechanical properties of just being able to issue commands.

hahaha. this thread is great, keep it up, guys

Watch out guys, we got a Sherlock over here.

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Worse case scenario you can either look a a small starting up guide (or in depth but where's the fun in that), or you can man up and learn it your way.

wow hard

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playing fighting games isn't like playing normal games. It's almost like performing a song. Some people can do things in music like cover a song they know the notes, but they don't have the rhythm, intonation, etc. etc. and they can't even see that or even understand why they aren't playing the "song" they are just playing the notes. Just like using tech for example some people know the buttons and how to do the tech, they don't know why they are doing it, they don't understand the feel of the tech, they don't know when to do it, etc. There is a whole nother layer to these games beyond just flashy combos and having the ability to press buttons fast. A real musician can improvise a brilliant song just like a real fighting game player can "feel" his surroundings and "feel" his opponents intentions.

YOUNG BLACK FGC MOZART

I always get roped in by how flashy it looks and imagining how fun it would be to actually play at a decent level, to get a rush from having close fights all the time since it's the only genre where that's even consistently possible. Then I spend like 2 weeks in training mode trying to get basic movement down, maybe learn a BnB or two and give up because even that's too difficult to fully commit to muscle memory. I wish I wasn't so retarded so I could actually enjoy such a cool genre.

There really should be a nublet group so we can get our training in.

That's me and Grand Strategy right there.

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Funnily enough, they fixed all of the ones that could be either fun or at the very least with a purpose and left the bullshit ones that have existed since the beta. I have yet to see a different game with bugs this diverse.

>late game you discover something that could have been really useful to know from the beginning

No only the community is cancer but i can't git gud at doing combos even after so many years of playing the series

>other games bore me because mechanics are too simple

It's just a party game user. There are no deep mechanics. Try a real fighting game if you want git good.

usually i just handle whatever defense i can
enemies usually end up wasting resources trying to break my defenses while my allies are ramming them from the side

This is why Master of Magic and Master of Orion are still considered to be the best fantasy and sci-fi 4x games respectively.

what i want to know is why its lousy interface gets a pass.
the game is amazing in plenty of ways but if you mention how shitty the interface is the only reasonable answer in a sea of bullshit is that it functions if you take the time to learn it.
that doesnt mean it shouldnt be improved though

i feel you user

user, the fact that you are from reddit is obvious. you can try to fit in as much as you want but you can't put a square in a circle

Thank everyone above 40 years of age for raising their children to be acceptive retards, for some reason if something is shit it's okay.
Who cares? Are you like those weird people who want to improve over time?

I can play Dwarf Fortress just fine but i can't get into Grand strategy.

no but i want everything else to improve so everything is easier for me

FUCK THE GRANDMASTER

Seriously, what is so hard about the guy? Just Shaolin Blast his ass whenever he splits, and when he isn't split he's more or less a regular enemy

that doesn't make sense

Accessibility however is good, we should strive for making it so the only limitation in our creations is always ourselves

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no, you are just lazy and you are making excuses to put it aside

consider that M2TW dimplomacy is broken
t-a-w.blogspot.cl/2009/11/why-everyone-hates-you-in-medieval-2.html

Oh. He never splitted more than once with me.

ss13 is easy to get into tho
actually being able to do something is the only step. from there on it's just knowledge. DF is rough to get a handle on how to do shit, and requires knowledge.
in SS13 if you can move, interact with objects and talk you're contributing to the shift.

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keep wondering user, i'm sure it will be obvious to you soon enough

are you trying to be ironic?

"Deep mechanics" my ass.

There's two typically types of people that play Melee at local level: those that just spam tech skill just to overwhelm people that don't know how to deal with it, or those that actually have some mental game and know about spacing, whiff-punishing, neutral, etc.

A comparison for SF would be going against a person spamming special moves versus going against someone that knows how to properly play footsies and poke.

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One of the best melee players just used sheik with not so much as a single wavedash.
Techs are just a shortcurt, they never replace true skill.

Borp's good, but c'mon.
Knowing tech just means you have more options. Whether or not you're shit is based on you knowing how to use the options available to you.

Okay.jpg, tfw faggot, and peepee were shit memes that I'm glad got killed off. Jewt closing down /new/ and /r9gay/ were the worst things to happen to Holla Forums.

MGR was certainly an experience on my first playthrough, what with me being too retarded to understand how to pull off the parry consistently but still decent enough to progress, and accidentally pulling off a gimmick playthrough my first time playing the game. I didn't quite grasp that it was tap-a-direction plus the button, rather than hold to do the parry, which didn't make Monsoon as awful to fight as you'd expect somehow.

dats deep nigga but those low iq charge characters and scrubs who only spam really ruin the experience for me

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There are shortcut command functions. Not even long time vets knew about this until someone brings one up, and the command guide is loaded with a wall of nonstop text.

That happened to me with the Shadow Warrior reboot.
Now I can't wait for the second one.

Every time a 'new player friendly' group for anything is made, it attracts all sorts of cancer due to the amount of new players unwilling to learn the game outweighing the amount of new players that wish to get better. Just look how ASSFAGGOTS turned out.

the problem isnt that its accessible, but that the devs continue to bend and bend for this new audience instead of putting thought behind their decisions

It's all the work of accounting/logistics without actually seeing dudes dying for your cause. I'll tell you I'm not going to spend all day shifting to spreadsheets, designing a civilization, and micromanaging a bunch of shit heads just so I can pretend that triangle is bludgeoning that square to death. A bit too much investment with not enough pay off.

Battle Garegga's depth is fucking crazy for a SHMUP

So pretty much any grand strategy and 4x?

I just don't want to look at it, the bright yellow and green on black hurts

At least Showdown removes the "who has time for that" excuse.

Fuck. Can anyone guess the game im talking about?

just die in my sleep already

Because it's only as complex as you want it to be.
You can't speculate about dorf fort from what people say. You have to actually go play it to understand.
It's an extremely addictive game, but you'd know that if you bothered playing it instead of shitting on it, idiot.

Sure, you did it to spite those lazy devs. That'll show them.

Shortcuts? L-like what?

it's fun when you don't have everyone trying to be the main character with every role every round. i once had a real fun time as a traitor clown on a quite low pop server, maybe just 7 guys. apparently it got pretty spooky for them when they realised they were dropping one by one. i'd keep them alive and take them to the execution chamber in the brig while telling them jokes. managed to find a different execution method for each guy, with a matching pun.

of course, for every round like that where you're the bees knees you'll have 20 or so where you just chill and try and get on with your job, maybe interact a bit with whoever has got the memes rolling that round

Every city sim is like that for me. I start playing, my city sucks, I get pissed and don't play for a month or two. I come back to it, start a new city, and I am The God Mayor of Mankind.

monhun? It takes me a couple hunts to re-learn if I haven't played a weapon class in a while