Villains that did nothing wrong

Eli Perez
Eli Perez

What did ursula do wrong? We were not suppose to be on her side?

Jace Foster
Jace Foster

What did Ursula do wrong?
Turning into a giant sea monster and rampaging on the surface, which invariably led to being murdered by the prince and his boat.
That was pretty stupid of her. Especially since she'd won by that point and gotten everything she'd ever wanted.

Ian Ward
Ian Ward

only wanted to live forever and have a qt daughter
NOTHING WRONG!
the nips version was better, literary nothing wrong

James Hughes
James Hughes

I got a few ones;
The mechanical Bowler Hat in Meet the Robinsons
Sentience given life just wanted to perfect humanity even if it meant becoming arrogant beyond its human creators. Sure it doesn't look pretty but it was the machine's perception of what a fully automated society could be. In the end I draw it to sort of like Ultron; working the shadows while having someone else do to work for them.
Clayton
Dude just wanted to go back home after hunting gorillas but then Jane had to want Tarzan dick
Yokai from BH6
Shit if I was a father/scientist/roboticist and i just found out my boss just fucked up and "killed" my daughter AND referred to her as "setback," I'd be damn pissed too, that's not only irresponisble on the boss's part but i'm surpised KreiTech wasn't put under by that incident alone
Kane from Motorcity
Honestly he's not a terrible father and Detroit Deluxe feels like was built more for the safety of the citizens than to just purge any anarchistic element

Joshua Barnes
Joshua Barnes

She cheated with her deal by actively working to sabotage Ariel trying to get that prince dicking.

Landon Baker
Landon Baker

Hans

Show up to try to marry the younger sister

Older sister chimpsout and winters the kingdom

Do what you can to help

Suddenly movie now needs a villain, Elsa can't be that thanks to the plot changing so you tell the younger princess your dastardly plan instead of just getting her killed

Kuvira

Earth Kingdom is in chaos

You go around fixing the Earth Kingdom while being expected to bow down to an inept shameful puppet of President Raiko

Have bandits put to labor

Woman who you see as a mother badmouths your actions

When it's time to be a good little pawn you say no and declare we Earth Empire now

Talk of how you're going too far by the likes of Tenzin

Try to get Suyin (who badmouthed the monarchy and wouldn't step-in to for the empire) to join but she doesn't. Opal brings up Kuvira enslaving EK civilians offscreen but this never really gets shown (does she enslave just the criminals and those who attack her first, what do they do as slaves, WE DON'T KNOW) with Team Loser Bolin doubting this.

Slaps around Varrick who was a shameless war profiteer

Bolin tries to to tell Kuvira to just ignore Zaofu but the plot has to show us she's badwrong so she hamfistedly threatens him

Suyin and kids try to assasinate her but fail

Whoop Korra when she sticks her nose into your business

Unseen reeducation camps where non-EK citizens are sent to (real subtle)

Rides around in giant robot after writers realized they failed to establish her

Carson Lopez
Carson Lopez

What? That's super obvious. She makes deals which are obviously a terrible idea. She's like a super corrupt salesman, basically it's the deal with the devil. Let's just say it's less evil than most villains because it's your fault to make a deal with her. But as someone else states in this thread, she cheats during the deal.

This guy actually didn't do anything wrong except prejudice, but I'm sure he's seen some shit considering he's become a hero in some way.

woman scared as hell of death, makes you feel sorry for her
tries to prevail her life, an understandable reason
forcing Rapunzel to stay home for her own goals, but is theoretically correct considering how dangerous the world outside the tower is, with all those cutthroat robbers and such
at the end, as an old woman, gets murdered in cold blood
WTF Disney, fuck this movie

Villains who did nothing wrong in my opinion:

Sykes from Oliver & Co., who's in the right by law, because the bum character doesn't pay back his debts. He should have gone to court instead of kidnapping a kid.

Shir Khan, who hates humans for good reasons.

Yzma, because let's face it, Kuzco is the villain.

The critic from Ratatouille, which might be my favorite Disney "villain", because he's just strictly doing his job. He's basically just a villain to those who don't do quality work.

Easton Bailey
Easton Bailey

reddit spacing

Josiah Lee
Josiah Lee

this is acually an archtypical example of reddit spacing, some people will sperg out about anything with any double space but this one actually clearly affect the readability it would be clearer and less ugly if the spacing was organized like this

villain
reason did nothing wrong
another
another

villain
reason did nothing wrong
another
another

Aiden White
Aiden White

If he uses the spacing to make it easier to read, he shouldn't have skipped topics throughout the greentext…

Samuel Parker
Samuel Parker

I am not defending him, I am in fact saying he should have done exactly what you said but actually showing what that looks like

Colton Parker
Colton Parker

I know, I just further complained.

Gavin Baker
Gavin Baker

Clayton also had an unecessarily horrible death. Much worse than some Disney villains who have done much worse.

Kayden Perez
Kayden Perez

Was an accident though. Mother Gothel was killed in cold blood.

Logan Perez
Logan Perez

Clayton
Fuck off nigger. He literally was poaching and killing shamefully, he got right what he deserved if not better

Aaron Torres
Aaron Torres

The critic isn't a villain. He's just the antagonist of the story.

Sebastian Cruz
Sebastian Cruz

defending Sykes and Ursula
Are you guys Jewish perchance?

Jayden Butler
Jayden Butler

I would say that Yzma and Kuzco were roughly on equal ground of being uncaring and self-centered as a ruler, though Yzma could hide it a bit better (and seeing how she helped raised Kuzco for most of his life, the apple didn't exactly fall far from the tree). Kuzco at least learns a lesson out of the plot while Yzma digs herself more into the hole of her making from her upsurp/revenge. Considering the lowered stakes for the film, I'm willing to let it just be assholes being pummelled from their own follies.

Samuel Lee
Samuel Lee

I don't need to be Jewish to be power hungry and greedy.

Matthew Cox
Matthew Cox

You're goddamn right i'm still salty about that ending

Cameron Martin
Cameron Martin

Villains who dindu nuffin
Not Facilier

Eli Jackson
Eli Jackson

Facilier dindu nuffin he wuz a good boi
No. He was literally a dumbass that sold his soul to basically the devil,if I remember correctly, and tried to get it back by stealing other peoples souls.

Charles Morgan
Charles Morgan

literally nothing wrong

Dylan Murphy
Dylan Murphy

Oh yeah he did shit wrong, he just HAD to dangle the talisman in easy reach of Tanya when he had it so he could gloat. If he just fucking put it in his pocket he wouldn't have been dragged to Louisiana Hell.

Bentley Rogers
Bentley Rogers

Shere Khan
Agreed, he's a tiger they are supposed to kill stuff. It's what tigers are born into this world to do.
Yzma
Kuzco was a dick but he didn't let Pacha fall to his death and was able to grow as a person after having to experience life outside his royal bubble. Whereas Yzma attempted regicide with poison after being dismissed and that's low, but when it turned out she lied to Kronk about liking his spinach puffs that was just outright unforgivable.

Jackson Wilson
Jackson Wilson

NOTHING WRONG!

Ian Brown
Ian Brown

Any remotely respectable government wouldn't let Muties run around chimpingout if they were even close to how dangerous they are in Marvel. The Sentinels (or something smaller and easier to hide) and some way to record and keep track of Mutants would be needed.

Easton Cook
Easton Cook

A lot, like not have enough big titty lactation porn made of her

Andrew Torres
Andrew Torres

the Rapunzel story is just another piece to convince that parental figures doing anything to protect are wrong and stupid, and criminals are perfectly nice.

Ayden Cox
Ayden Cox

Hans plan to marry into the monarchy and then kill Anna to become king is retarded because only people from Anna's family would be considered.

Brandon Evans
Brandon Evans

The mechanical Bowler
He wanted power.
Yokai
Killed hiro's brother.
Clayton
Meh, didn't he kidnapped Jane?

Christopher Foster
Christopher Foster

Wasn't Kane a capitalist turned communist?

Asher Perry
Asher Perry

He wanted power.
Because he wanted to be more than just a tool
Killed hiro's brother
meh all he did was choose to save himself, he didn't kill him so much as steal Hiro's microbots
Meh, didn't he kidnapped Jane?
I wouldn't say kidnap so much as "protect from a rabid savage man who thinks himself a gorilla"
Wasn't Kane a capitalist turned communist?
A capitalist that had Mike under his heel until he formed the Burners

Grayson Phillips
Grayson Phillips

Off-topic but Airel was WORST princess.

She did impulsive shit, and put the ocean's government at risk over a crush. Does nothing significant to fix her own mistake, everyone
else bails her out.

He should have gone to court instead of kidnapping a kid.
It's strongly implied he's a mobster.

Blake Brooks
Blake Brooks

The critic from Ratatouille
antagonist =! villain

David James
David James

Hey this chick won't marry me you know what let me blackmail her indirectly because she doesn't want my cock like other women do

Nothing wrong :^)

Adrian Rogers
Adrian Rogers

He's a forced villain. Of course his master plan is weak.

Adam Powell
Adam Powell

Belle didn't know what was best for her.

Joshua Thomas
Joshua Thomas

Ariel was WORST princess
Yeah, but, who wouldn't want to open her can of tuna?

Easton Powell
Easton Powell

She wasn't even that bad of a mom. Rapunzel is well-educated and in healthy condition. Mother Gothel could have caged her like some animal but instead took her in as her child and cared for her. She mothered her enough to know Rapunzel's favorite food and travel far distances to get it. She gave her a pet.

She also doesn't even say she can never leave. She tells her to stop asking, but she does tell Rapunzel "soon, but not yet" about leaving.

She was kind of a cunt as a mother and had a lot of backhanded comments but she didn't actually do anything too bad. Uh, especially in the original story when the king and queen essentially stole Rapunzel from HER garden to begin with.

Kevin Hernandez
Kevin Hernandez

Truth be told had Gaston just said he had indirectly blackmailed her, she probably would have liked him because that's actually intelligent.
But he didn't and now he's dead.

Zachary Perez
Zachary Perez

Anti-mutant initiatives aren't wrong
In a perfect world where they don't run amok, maybe. You're talking about robots that killed off their own creator, Bolivar Trask and a guy whose assassination dooms the world to a shitty Sentinel-controlled future.

Anthony Myers
Anthony Myers

1776 WILL COMMENCE AGAIN IF YOU TRY TO TAKE OUR FIREARMS

Easton Gomez
Easton Gomez

Mother Gothel could have caged her like some animal
And she did. The movoe might not have dwelled on it too much, but she was still stuck in one fucking room for her whole life. Can you imagine being able to live like that? Without a computer?

Christopher Anderson
Christopher Anderson

worst princess
At least she's not a nigger.

Jackson Walker
Jackson Walker

I mean truly like an animal, not in a metaphorical sense. I mean truly, honest to god caging her up in a crate you have for dogs. Keeping her in a dungeon with no stimulation, barely keeping her alive.

Also, it's not just one room. There's a main room, which is massive, but there's a few doors that seem to lead to a bedroom and some other room.
I'm sure there's plenty of peasants that have far less stimulation than her.

Jayden Barnes
Jayden Barnes

Basically every villain in Lilo and Stitch were completely in the right. They wanted to keep a family safe, particularly a small child, stop a destructive beast literally made to kill and destroy, keep Earth safe, and stop Earth from getting into trouble in general with alien federations that civilians don't typically know about.
Even if you're just considering Gantu, he literally just wanted to make sure Stitch was taken care of. It's kind of bogus he was fired for just doing his job. He may have gone overboard, but Stitch was literally made to just completely destroy everything, so any collateral damage was acceptable. I don't think he even killed anyone, either.

Austin Ortiz
Austin Ortiz

People still haven't posted the misunderstood protagonist of marvel comics

Charles Bennett
Charles Bennett

Hey /tv/

Andrew Parker
Andrew Parker

kidnapper
did nothing wrong

Camden Young
Camden Young

Sentinels or something like them are needed against Mutants. Cops aren't enough and Mutants like Niggers can't be trusted to police themselves.

Carson Adams
Carson Adams

She was fat.

Joseph Adams
Joseph Adams

Taran from the black cauldron is his son.
Deepest lore.

Andrew Murphy
Andrew Murphy

even Hamsterveil was justified to some degree. He presumably spent a fortune financing Jumba's experiments with the caveat the Jumba build him an army, but then Jumba basically just took the money and never forked over the goods.

Brody Richardson
Brody Richardson

My favorite kind of villain is one who was right after all.

Chase Davis
Chase Davis

What a very broad and bland response.

Lucas Rogers
Lucas Rogers

Its true

Jaxson Scott
Jaxson Scott

Wolverine calling anyone puny.

Angel Myers
Angel Myers

Care to elaborate? I've never heard that one.

Joseph Collins
Joseph Collins

Yokai
did nothing wrong
He tried to kill his own students several times without provocation
Hiro tried to talk him down but "muh daughter!!"

Jacob Stewart
Jacob Stewart

Define Villain.

Gantu WAS screwed over, but villain?

Hamsterviel was the only villain, everyone else were antagonists at worst. They even called Gantu once in the show when Stitch couldn't handle a metal eating experiement.

Cobra Bubbles wasn't much of a villain, a bit of a dick maybe, but Nani did NOT have shit handled and Lilo was being a shit and had obvious issues. Honestly, haing dealt with CPS and fallout from CPS, Cobra Bubbles was extremely lenient and forgiving

Robert Wood
Robert Wood

Isn't the whole point of Mother Gothel and Rapunzel that its Stockholm Syndrome. That and she stole someone else's baby is pretty fucked up.

Gantu I felt sorry for since he was just doing his job but his boss decided to fire his ass just to cover her own just to seem nice to Lilo.

Luis Jones
Luis Jones

Isn't the whole point of Mother Gothel and Rapunzel that its Stockholm Syndrome. That and she stole someone else's baby is pretty fucked up.
People also miss the point that anytime she express affection toward Rapunzel in the movie, she specifically expresses said affection toward Rapunzel's HAIR.

Christian Morris
Christian Morris

Bothering to discuss the show at all
Gantu is portrayed as a villain. The others may simply be antagonists but Disney does kind of Disney-fy it until the end.

Hudson Perry
Hudson Perry

I've heard this theory before and it's such bull. She gives Rapunzel kisses on the forehead, hugs her (specifically putting her arms under her hair, hugging Rapunzel and NOT her hair), and remembers her favorite food, birthday, etc.

Cameron Howard
Cameron Howard

I assume he means judging from the family pictures on the wall.

Justin Ward
Justin Ward

I'm in the camp that thinks Gothel started with purely evil intentions and then found that she really enjoyed being a mother and liked Rapunzel as a person. This put her in an awkward spot that left her exploiting a daughter that she loved, but being unable to stop because that meant admitting that what she was doing was harmful to Rapunzel. This led to her doubling down with a tower and elaborate henchmen plots to get her back where she "rightfully belonged"

Isaiah Mitchell
Isaiah Mitchell

Out of this whole thing the only part that bothers me that much is Flounder

Jose Lee
Jose Lee

live forever
It's not that hard to see what's wrong with that
Clayton
Gaston
They were pretty fucking stupid

William Collins
William Collins

kek

Daniel Turner
Daniel Turner

That pic of Gaston's wedding picture
Does Gaston have a flight plan that he just filed with the agency?

Caleb Perry
Caleb Perry

Marvel canon states that blacks are the ultimate villains and that Hitler died for America's sins.

Michael Ward
Michael Ward

Doom cares about Richards deep down.
Awww that's sweet.

Gavin Nelson
Gavin Nelson

C-context?

Owen Reed
Owen Reed

C-context?

No.

Ryan Taylor
Ryan Taylor

Payback for Hiroshima against the (((Stark))) family. The last Jap.

Jackson Gray
Jackson Gray

slaves are rising
Captain America beats black guy up for rising against his owners while stating to stand in for minorities
gets shot by Hitler
who celebrates his victory by shooting himself

What the actual fuck, nothing makes sense.

Ethan Young
Ethan Young

Again..lost sympathy when you send GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS MADE OUT OF METAL NO LESS when the main mutant threat is the Master of Magnet. At least Bastion covers up, you know? But yeah, Sentinels work better when they can blend in, not Kaiju buster size.

Tyler Nguyen
Tyler Nguyen

Weren't they college buddies or something and Doom felt cheated that Richards got the fame, the girl and the recognition…while Doom was forced to go back home to Latveria or something to that effect?

Blake Moore
Blake Moore

Well it is an Avante Garde play.

Yeah pretty much.

Andrew Gomez
Andrew Gomez

Be a faithful butler to some millionaire lady
Her senile dementia kicks in and she's going to throw down the toilet all her fortune by giving it to her stupid cats
Decide to do the right thing and get rid of them
Too good of a soul to just drown them, abandons them in the wild instead
Get sent to Timbuktu instead

He was the good guy all along

Luis Phillips
Luis Phillips

women can't beat dick, it's their only weakness

Liam Miller
Liam Miller

Why did Facilier even turn Prince Durka into a frog anyway. The whole thing gets his black ass dragged to hell and I can't remember that he even had a motive for it.

Thomas Wright
Thomas Wright

wants to fug a gyppo
The man was not right in the head

James Rodriguez
James Rodriguez

This does not helps her case in slightest, because it means she is worse than actual nigger (Kida).

Ryan Rodriguez
Ryan Rodriguez

I can't remember that he even had a motive for it.
Actually… Yeah.

Chase White
Chase White

He wanted access to the wealth of the blonde chick and the prince (muh debts, closest thing to a theme the movie has). His plan was to make the fat guy his cat's paw. Use Facilier's magic to turn fatso into the prince's doppelgänger then if possible get fatso to marry the "princess" of New Orleans. At that point fatso, and by extension Facilier, has access to the wealth and power of both families. The key of the plan is that fatso cannot betray Facilier because he needs Facilier to repeatedly and indefinitely refresh the doppelgänger spell. Otherwise it only works as a plan to improve fatso's lot.

Christian Nguyen
Christian Nguyen

Why didn't he just make himself the prince?

Ethan Reyes
Ethan Reyes

More maneuverability. Power behind the throne has more deniability, and in a pinch he could dispose of him.

Hudson Wilson
Hudson Wilson

Why didn't he just make himself the prince?

Carson White
Carson White

Off the cuff his magic seems pretty limited. He may have needed to leverage something like the law of similarity or association. I think the best thematic answer is that his magic is entirely deal based. I can't think of an example where he uses magic in a direct YOU FACE A WIZARD! fashion. He always indirectly trys to get people to agree to a bargain of their own free will. Maybe that's the only way his magic can effect people.

I also like 's explanation. Facilier is such a shifty and crooked guy. Doing it indirectly with an expendable patsy he conned really fits him. He's the kind of character who can't even think in a straight line.

I kind of appreciated how they left some things unexplained with Dr. Facilier. He was the best part of the film by far.

William Cruz
William Cruz

I actually gotta say, I felt pretty sympathetic to the guy. Fucking cats don't need that much money.

Leo Miller
Leo Miller

Convince old lady to make him the cats' butler
Wait for her to die
Secure your place in a sweet mansion by yourself and some cats, using her funds as you please and arguing they're expenses for the cats
Better plan than the shit he attempted.

Owen Gomez
Owen Gomez

Honestly, Dr. Doom's hate-boner for Reed was always comically stupid.

Victor is, ironically enough, at his best when he isn't fighting the Fantastic Four. He's too good for them.

Carson Gray
Carson Gray

Nah he was a great villain for them.
I kinda feel annoyed when respect for a good villain turns into shitty fanwank.

Ultimately he's a character that works well because of his flaws and problems and is ultimately a villain. When this information is forgotten, he becomes a near lolmemes character.

Lucas Russell
Lucas Russell

He was supposed to do that in an earlier draft of the movie. They went with the butler impersonating Raveen so that his voice actor could be heard more.

Matthew Hernandez
Matthew Hernandez

And by his voice actor I mean Keith David.

Grayson Diaz
Grayson Diaz

This

Move to Genosia faggot.

Jordan Adams
Jordan Adams

To be fair, why the hell would you expect to fail a plan as simple as "dump some cats in the woods".

Isaiah Thomas
Isaiah Thomas

He explained that he cannot use vodoo magic on himself, otherwise he would just have made himself rich and powerful. He even explains this, when he holds the shapeshiftting amulet, that it doesn't work on him(the vodoo priest).

William King
William King

She's a crazy old lady, he relied too much on her for the plan, anyway. There could have been a lot of different outcomes:
She adopts new cats and puts them in her will instead
She decides to send all her money to some cat charity for lost kittens
Money goes to some long-lost family member instead
He was in a better position to just wait out her death.

Jayden Perry
Jayden Perry

The Emperor started it with his wall.

Bentley Green
Bentley Green

When the Huns send their people, they're not sending their best

Levi Perry
Levi Perry

Implying he wasn't a gyppo himself

Adam Smith
Adam Smith

<started with purely evil intentions
getting back what was yours
after the King and his """sorcerers""" (who clearly don't know shit about magic) destroy it
<evil

The only thing she did wrong was not building a cabin with a green house where the flower was to be less obvious to bypassers (that is of course implying the flower couldn't be moved without it dying)

Sebastian Roberts
Sebastian Roberts

You're absolutely right user

Jayden King
Jayden King

Mulan was pretty weird. At the end Mulan's big victory was to save the life of the tyrannical asshole whose ruthless policies were going to force her crippled father to be canon fodder.

Parker Martinez
Parker Martinez

Came here to post this. The only reason Edgar ever gets to be the villain is because he couldn't wait the whole conversation out. The Aristocats has to be one of the most easily preventable Disney plots. In fact, what's with Disney and making butlers miserable? Scrooge and that negro prince's butlers were treated like dirt for no reason at all.
Gaston is also a victim of circumstance, despite being an ass his goal is pretty much hey let's take down this brutish unknown irrational beast that is causing trouble in the outskirt.
She was wrong in that she misguided people in their life choices but like, she still was FAIR and gave them exactly what they wanted. Could've given Ariel any type or number of legs she wanted and she would have still technically done her job.
The critic from Ratatouille, which might be my favorite Disney "villain", because he's just strictly doing his job. He's basically just a villain to those who don't do quality work.
Best character and best monologue
Yzma
Kuzco became an ass because of her influence and because she mismanaged his education.

Kevin Parker
Kevin Parker

You probably do not understand the kind of threat that a murderous horde poses. ALL men serve. The very beginning of the movie has a kid rise up to take his father's place when he could've just be left home to keep the economy going. The tyrannical asshole also quite literally kneels before the only serving woman and her crossdressing cadre at the end, too. Mulan is full of themes of courage and role reversal.

Justin Scott
Justin Scott

Could've given Ariel any type or number of legs
Ariel could've had seven vaganias or become a lamia or at least have legs that won't quit, but she ended up with regular boring pair of legs. Pretty meh deal, considering that her price was her fucking voice.

Austin Taylor
Austin Taylor

Wow, that was avant-garde!

Henry Thomas
Henry Thomas

You say "murderous horde", others say "founders of a new dynasty". And kneeling once is a pretty cheap price for being an absolute ruler owed total fealty upon penalty of death. Paris is worth a mass.

Sebastian Phillips
Sebastian Phillips

Originally, in college Richards points out an error in the equations for the Hell Portal Doom is building in his dorm room, Doom tells him to fuck off, then the portal blows up in his face and that's Richards's fault because obviously it was sabotage and not that Doom's equations were wrong.

They've rehashed this a million times over, but all the new shit they add is stupid and forgettable, like making it where Ben Grimm actually did change some of the numbers on Doom's white board.

It's compounded by if it's not shitty fanwank, then it's trying to take Doom down a peg in response to the fanwank, which is equally shitty. It's either he's killing a lion with his bare hands without his armor or crying like a bitch because Scott Lang punched him a few times.

The best Doom stories are the ones where the comic book super-genius shtick is balanced out with his biggest flaw/personality trait, being a raging meglomaniac. He can come out on top, sometimes, but he'll shoot himself in the foot twenty times getting there from being tripped up by his ego.

Leo Cox
Leo Cox

It's compounded by if it's not shitty fanwank, then it's trying to take Doom down a peg in response to the fanwank, which is equally shitty. It's either he's killing a lion with his bare hands without his armor or crying like a bitch because Scott Lang punched him a few times.

Those are his problems in a nutshell. He's a brilliant man, even a good man in his own way. But his arrogance and superiority complex are his neat balancing element.
As a fan of Fantastic 4 comics before they were exiled into the foxhole, I think they had good dynamics.

Logan Gomez
Logan Gomez

I kinda feel annoyed when respect for a good villain turns into shitty fanwank.

It's not fanwank so much as a realization that Doom's character development has led to him outgrowing the Fantastic Four. So everytime I see writers pull the same stupid shit with Doom being a whiny bitch about Reed Richards, it annoys the crap out of me.

Jose Morgan
Jose Morgan

It's not fanwank so much as a realization that Doom's character development has led to him outgrowing the Fantastic Four.

Its not fankwank, its removing all his flaws, and biases so he can yell and be cool and everybody goes "Woaaah doom os so coool!"

It's fanwank. Id say every character is too old for this shit and begs for death every day, but that's the nature of comic books. But Doom is not a character who benefits from development.

As a person trying to compensate for insecurities, and egomania, Doom has depth and interest too him.
As just some "Trez cool dudez" who runs around and is totally aweszom", hes more of just a tool, who feels like an idiot.

Dominic Nelson
Dominic Nelson

Yeah I think someone traced his face for one of his sons or something.

Owen Myers
Owen Myers

This. Edgar was retarded. The will even said je would get the money after tha cats died. They only live like 12 years or something. He could have just waited.

Daniel Lopez
Daniel Lopez

So your not seeing how an "absolute ruler owed total fealty upon penalty of death", who doesn't have to kowtow at all, kneeling before some no-name woman is a big deal?

Julian Rogers
Julian Rogers

Measured against a brutal feudal tyranny where the vast majority of the population are de facto slaves? No.

Look man, I get the symbolism, especially in an oriental ant people culture. But that's all it is: symbolism. I care a lot more about reality and the reality is that the emperor's life is valued infinitely more than that of any of his subjects, to the point of being a plot point, and he's somehow a good guy? You can make a pretty strong argument that the emperor and the Hun leader are equally ruthless and power hungry. At least Shan Yu leads from the front.

Elijah Johnson
Elijah Johnson

You can't really compare either as one group is a horde whose leader has to also be their military strategist and captain, while the other is a well established country where politics and military are administered by two different groups all under the rule of the Emperor. Li Shang and Chi Fu, despite both being the highest ranking people in their respective group, cooperate in ensuring their country is defended. Plus it's not like a country goes full stop once war is declared by or upon it, you still need someone to take the lead decisions (which doesn't necessarily have to be a leader, we know that there's only about 5 people throughout history who could qualify as true leaders despite not being up front in the heat of battle), why would you send the one bearded dude who can talk down to the whole of China to get killed in the front lines? And as far as we can tell, the people that get hired by him are a-okay with his edict in that they know that protecting the state is also about protecting their individual families and businesses. It's pretty much why Mulan's father accepts his fate despite knowing he'll never come back home.
That's not to say that either rulers were better than the other, the story is about Mulan and her friends making it through the war and eventually winning it, but the same way they bowed to her they could've killed at any time once they figured out her identity, which they didn't do. IIRC the real counterpart to Mulan actually DID get hanged once it was found out that she was a woman according to legends.
Not only that, but pampered cats as well, who'd not survive more than a couple of days on their own. Guess he also made the mistake of assuming that he could talk to a horse and somehow this trickled down through all the animals in France till it finally reached the right ones. Guess he was just unlucky to be born in the universe where animals can talk to each other.

Jordan Collins
Jordan Collins

You can make a pretty strong argument that the emperor and the Hun leader are equally ruthless and power hungry.
Then do it. What makes the emperor in the cartoon as bad as a foreign invader who practices total war and slaughters civillians left and right to the point that the Chinese need to start drafting old men in a desperate attempt to hold them off?

Chase Martinez
Chase Martinez

Well unless they had kittens or the like.

John Turner
John Turner

At the end Mulan's big victory was to save the life of the tyrannical asshole whose ruthless policies were going to force her crippled father to be canon fodder
That's a modern western mentality though. Remember this is the height of Confucius bullshit about preserving the natural order and knowing your place in society. If you're job is to fight when the king tells you to, it's against the universe to not.

Adam Sanchez
Adam Sanchez

I thought I had. The primary conflict in the story was that the emperor's regime's pitiless legalism was going to result in Mulan's crippled father being conscripted and sent to almost certain death. Whatever the Huns did or might have done it would be hard to top killing her father. And I don't see a way to exonerate the emperor without also letting Shan Yu off the hook.

I don't find this very convincing because it only seems like the difference between a sedentary, established warlord and a roving, grasping one. If Shan Yu had won then he would have become the emperor and his tactics would have changed with his regime becoming oppressive in exactly the same way the Han emperor's regime had been. Just like when the Yuan and Qing (among others) took over.

Raises a fair point. But if we use that standard what did Shan Yu do wrong? He's not Chinese or Confucian. He has no obligation to follow those ideals. His actions are driven by a desire to improve the lot of his people, the Huns. If that has to happen at the expense of the Chinese so be it. And again, if Shan Yu had won he would be the emperor at the head of the Confucian order.

Sure, Shan Yu started a war of aggression and conquest with lots of civilian casualties. But it was the Iron Age. It was a world of darkness, an age of fear. Everybody's army sacked and pillaged. So did the Chinese, including against the Huns. If anything the Han Chinese, understanding that demographics is destiny, were more thorough in their ethnic cleansings than the "barbarian" hordes who were generally content to just be in charge and get tribute. The Chinese didn't push the Huns out of the Ordos Loop using stern language. The way the film's chronology lines up with history is a little confused, but Shan Yu's invasion might have actually been a retaliation in kind.
(I'm assuming the Huns are the Xiongnu here since I think that's what the movie was going for, even if the real history is uncertain).

Shan Yu did nothing wrong.

Aiden Smith
Aiden Smith

Bring the kittens to the vet and get them fixed
Problem solved
Edgar was a retard no matter how you look at it.

Ian James
Ian James

eilonwy

reeeeee

Jaxon Smith
Jaxon Smith

the only serving woman and her crossdressing cadre
kek'd

Blake Peterson
Blake Peterson

that negro prince's butlers were treated like dirt
I love how he didn't get any sort of redemption arc, he just went to prison because he was sick of being poor and treated like shit

kek

Brody Jackson
Brody Jackson

He actually take good care of his nation and even created the schools for the superhumans so I can imagine the superhumans living the normal lives and do whatever they want.

Hudson Watson
Hudson Watson

This fishy bitch hooks YOU

Kayden Parker
Kayden Parker

Where in the movie is it shown that the head Chinaman is a bloodthirsty tyrant? You keep saying he is, but provide no evidence. I'm beginning to suspect that you are a Hun.

Elijah Torres
Elijah Torres

The flower wasn't necessary "hers" though.
It's a flower, you can't claim ownership of a flower, especially if you didn't even pluck it.
She isn't even keeping the flower for the goodness of nature or some other shit, she just keeps it for her own purposes.
Now, one could argue that the assholes that did pluck the flower are also dumbasses because you fucking destroyed an amazing thing for your own petty reasons (a daughter really is little when you have INFINITE FUCKING YOUTH POTIONS) but the witch herself wasn't good just because those people were stupid.

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