If Islamic Communism is a legitimate thing, how come the majority of people advocating it *today* are secular academic leftists living in the west rather than Muslims actually living in the Islamic World?
Never mind that the Kurds, despite many being practicing Muslims, do not merge theology with politics and keep their political program entirely secular.
Pretty sure the PFLP was founded by Palestinian Christians.
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It's a meme
But it's not.
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>youtube.com
this woman is a meme
I wouldn't be allowed in an orthodox synagogue dressed like that, with a translucent lace top that clearly shows skin above the elbows. Why does this woman believe she's representing anything close to Islamic modesty (which is much stricter than Jewish modesty)?
idpol. It makes people think they're opposing capitalist exploitation because of their religion or skin color.
Yes, it's western narcissism disguised as religious traditionalism or anti-imperialism.
lol, pflp is as Marxist-Leninist as they come
oh man just look at these christians, obviously not leftists
The point is, the PFLP are not "Islamic communist" in that their political platform has nothing to do with Islam, religion, or theology.
But are groups like PFLP at least somewhat combining Islam and communism, or does it just happen that the majority of members are muslims?
Woman in the first pic is hardly following Islamic modesty.
0/10
it just so happens that a large majority of it's members are muslim.
they don't want an islamic country, they just want a palestine free from israeli imperialism… aka what palestine was before israeli colonialism took hold, a country for the working class christian/muslim/whatever free from exploitation.
Meaning they're not "Islamic Communist", they're secularists.
You have to be fucking kidding me if you think Ottoman Palestine was anything close to proletarian.
I'm guessing an Empire is proletarian so as long as it's ruled by brown people, right?
they are still muslims
Modesty is a very big thing in Islamic Law, specifically for women. I have never seen a devout Muslim woman dress in any way other than total covering of the hair and neck, long skirt down to the ankles, and long sleeves covering the wrist.
Does the PFLP base their communism on Islam or not?
they are marxist leninists they don't want ottoman rule
You forgot the most important element of islamig gommunism my friend
Ironic distance
don't pull this bullshit "palestinians are racist and just don't like jews" bullshit, palestinians don't want to be colonized and are 100% anti-imperialist it has nothing to do with "BOTH SIDES JUST WANTING TO BE RULED BY THEIR OWN". its about getting rid of the ruler all together. to build a workers country free from theocratic bs
What elements of traditional Islam does the PFLP integrate into its political theories?
Property rights are very big in Islam.
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none, they just have a bunch of anti-capitalist anti-imperialist more educated secular muslims in the front. islamig communism is not a real thing, its just a spooky buzz word combining the two things americans are most terrified about into one even though they are completely contrasting ideologies.
well technically islam has some sort of socialism built in but islamig gommunism isnt a real thing at all
The fact that there is an Islamic pro ethical-capitalism economic model
And an Islamic state model that of democratic republican theocracy
Zakat has nothing to do with relations of production. It's basically social democracy.
habibi, enta betarif keef tehky araby?
i wonder how many islamig gommunism posters there are on here
Bullshit, Palestinians are oppressed (i mean proper oppression not sjw tier bullshit) and they want it to end. Simple as that, it's not about creating a workers' paradise. Therefore if it actually happened there would be an ideological vacuum and it would eventually be filled with those with the most firepower.
oh okay then.
yeah i know a lot about islam seeing as how i was born one and both my parents are very strict and religious, ultimately though i would have to say islam is super pro-capitalism and income inequality since the quran says there literally HAS TO BE POOR PEOPLE. in the end though islam follows the same structure as christianity and is almost identical on all levels, def not a fix for the root cause of society's problems ie neoliberal capitalism, but a good distraction and even tool if used right
palestinians vary on the politics (some of palestinian society holding on socialism and the ideal arab leftism of the past and others not yet class educated) but in the end the entire palestinian struggle is just a call to end apartheid in their own land.
Quit trying to merge these ideologies together they are incompatible with each other
kill your spooks fam
Islamic Communism or the idea of it comes from Ali Shariati and the MEK, not the PFLP or the Kurdish forces. Most leftists in the ME are secularists even if they practice Islam on a more personal level. Ali Shariati could be seen a sort of Sorelian character since he had an influence on both Shia Islamists and Leftists in the third world.
i'm not i am 100% against islam, just as i am 100% against christianity and judaism as it has no compatibility with scientific marxism. i just wanted to know if you were the dude i talked to last week about this exact shit lol
well it kind of is actually. there's a lot of things in chicago-school capitalism that would be absolutely haram in islam.
islam is against communism in the sense that it doesn't outlaw free trade and private enterprise but at the other end of the scale you have the extremist capitalism that we have now that would also be massively restricted, because while investment is halal, speculation is haram.
that doesn't mean it would be better, neccessarily, because it's not been properly interpreted in the modern age so we don't really know.
What about Liberation Theology?
It pre-dates Shariati by a few decades by the thought of Mirsaid Sultan-Galiyev (the guy in OP's pic). He believed the Muslims of the USSR constituted their own unique class and wanted a pan-Turkic theocratic Islamic republic within the USSR. Of course, Stalin thought the guy was a nutjob and a class-collaborationist and purged him.
That's actually kind of funny, because I know a Turanist Nazbol. He is not Muslim though, more into neopaganism.
Where in the Qur'an does it say you must have private property?
IDK to be precise but the general consensus is there is nothing wrong with having it in Islam, as well as the right to pass it on to your children when you die.
Meanwhile, there are 20 other Arab nations with little to no active socialist/communist parties. Nothing remotely close to socialism emerged during the Arab Spring with the exception of a few short lived self-managed communities in Libya and Tunisia.
Okay, because I don't see how Islam would be antithetical to communism unless it explicitly forbade the abolition of private property.
For example, I know some Christians who are communists. When I asked them about stuff in the Old Testament about not stealing and coveting and stuff, they told me that those laws dealt with property as a part of life, not as something which directly advocated it over, say, sharing property in common.
Historically speaking, Jews also lived in communistic-type communities throughout the Russian Empire.
Depends how you define capitalism and communism i suppose, and those things tend to work on a scale, and you can have elements of capitalism in a communist system and vice versa.
Anyway, in Islam you're entitled to what you've worked for, but you also have a responsibility towards people less fortunate.
You're not supposed to live a flashy and decadent lifestyle, things like overeating to the point of your stomach feeling full are haram, etc etc.
It's pretty austere tbh.
Absolutely not. You can't have islands of communism within a sea of capitalism. Communism is a holistic system which incorporates nearly everything.
well then it's incompatible with islam
How does moderation and avoiding lusts translate into communism?
Who Islamic communism should be for:
Who Islamic communism should NOT be for:
I think the idea is to start the "don't be a fat, lazy, selfish, greedy, pig" on an individual level.
So, lifestyle politics?
By this logic, Hasidic Jews and Buddhist monks are communist.
Because the people living in the Islamic World don't have an idealized view of themselves or their culture, much unlike white liberals. A good number of them have zero illusions about theocracy and would prefer to live under governments where religion is downplayed.
When the moderate Islamic party was elected in Tunisia, people protested. When the Muslim Brotherhood was elected in Egypt, people protested. One reason many Turks hate Erdogan is because they think he's cozying up to jihadis. Iran's government is hanging by a thread as it is.
So basically, Islam promotes Titoism.
doesn't matter what word you put in front of it communism will always be shit
Though feudalist beauty standards? Fuck off.
Anyone who makes these statements should be ostracized from the left, permanently.
Pick one.
Palestine is just one country. If "Islamic communism" was a real thing that emerged organically from said nations because "Muhammad was LITERALLY Lenin" or some shit then you'd be seeing it in those nations.
It isn't.
All religions are cancer and incompatible with communism.
Palestine was a shitty revolting desert during the late Ottoman period.
Don't delude yourself. You just want the jews out (but I bet you want their infrastructure/factories since Palestinians are just muslim jews anyway) . Don't create stupid wrong superlatives for a period that never existed.
Palestinians didn't even build most of the modern infrastructure in Tel Aviv or any of the other cities, so it's hardly comparable to giving indigenous workers in South Africa/Zimbabwe back what was stolen from them.
If anything, Mizrahi Jews - most of whom are extremely right-wing and anti-Palestinian - built modern Israel through grueling labor.
Its not. We need atheist movements in arabic world.
This. The Muslim World isn't classcucked, it's culture-cucked.
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▶Islamig Gommunizum Anonymous (You) 09/25/16 (Sun) 00:21:00 No.941360>>952510 [Watch Thread]
If Islamic Communism is a legitimate thing, how come the majority of people advocating it *today* are secular academic leftists living in the west rather than Muslims actually living in the Islamic World?
Because the west did whatever it could to destroy socialist and secular movements in the Middle East by funding the Saudis, Muslim Brotherhood, FSA and other fascists. Given the choice most Muslims would elect a socialist.
Inheritance is a very big thing in Islam.
It's a meme
Islam in the political sense requires submission, inequality in rights between man and woman, among other rather reactionary things
I have no problems with Islam as a personal religion (as long as it doesn't act imperialistically), but as a political program it's not a good idea.
What about the fact that Muhammad was a great reformer who tried to do away with priests, national/tribal borders, and most of the patriarchal aspects of pre-Islamic Arab society? What about the fact that there are Hadith condemning private property and wealth hoarding?
"Islamic communism" is literally a meme. It's a mockery of retarded burgers that think vastly different groups of people are all part of the same evil boogeyman.
If that's not imperialism by any other name
It's the current year, we don't conquer people anymore (hopefully)
Yeah Islam as its core is big on charity and other social work, but it's too expansionist and would never work in the Western World's material conditions (equality of rights between women, etc…)
If "they", for the lack of a better term, manage to form a state that is also socialist and hopefully socially progressive, I would be the first to applaud, but it's not what I want in my country. I believe every nation has a right to defend its historical, cultural and ethnic heritage.
This is along the lines of a "not as bad as" argument. Yes, the early Islamic governments like the Umayyad Caliphate were decent by the standards of their time, but we have developed tremendously since then from a political and philosophical standpoint.
Islam was never imperialist. The Muslims were welcomed in by their neighbors who saw them as liberators from the Byzantines. Forced conversion isn't allowed in Islam so there is no way Islam, in its truest form, is imperialist. Islam in essence is nothing more than a set of principles followed in order to obtain closeness to God.
Where does the Qur'an say men and women aren't equal?
Also, Islam is not a set political system but a set of principles in which a government ought to be run according to if it's going to maintain peace and harmony. That's why mutual aid is the biggest tenant of Islam.
I consider Islam as a living religion not to be judged only by its holy book (there is a lot of shit in here), also by the speeches of believers, and some clerics said precisely that.
en.wikipedia.org
[Which is why Holla Forums hates me when I say their out of context quotes of the Qu'ran are not relevant btw.]
Maybe in theory. In practise the vast majority of the Sunnite Muslim world was ruled by Islamic law and the Sultan was also the master of the believers.
And about Imperialism - maybe it's true for the Byzantine times, but not for the Ottoman Empire or the push through France in the middle ages. Which I'm not having any hard feelings for, history being history.
I don't agree with him at all but that's not really fair, cultural attitudes aren't limited to religion. It's not like we couldn't probably find theological evidence anyway, it IS Islam.
Centralized authority is against the nature of Islam. There is a very clear reason as to why Muhammad didn't want a successor nor did he want Islam to become part of any political state apparatus.
Cringe every time.
I guess Islam must by its very nature oppose Islam for its presumption to be a centralized collection of absolute truth.
Muslims can get fucked.