There are people waiting the "Citizen Kane" of gaming

Commercial success is not the sole factor in whether or not people take a medium "seriously". It's the effect it leaves on other works that follow in the medium.

Video games do have those works. For example, Quake was the Citizen Kane of FPS. Its influence is still felt today. There are movers and shakers that have their design copied and iterated, but nearly all of them used a Quake engine derivative and used its basic gameplay style.

Moviefags are extremely dumb

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Way to eat my image hotwheels.

Pretty much. If you find a genre or game that influenced future generations than that is pretty much the "Citizen Kane" of gaming. Making a video game to be played as a game. What retarded journos are trying to force the meme on are games that don't even come close to the title of such a feat. Might as well call a comic book with word count that almost rivals a book the "Citizen Kane" of comic books. When any "art form" strays from what makes it special in the first place it ruins what that art form is trying to express in the first place.

Citizen Kane in of itself is a fine film.
Granted, people make it out to be a golden example of art as soon as it came out, ignoring the fact that it was a critical and commercial flop almost on release.
It wasn't until a few years later that people actually realized the groundbreaking stuff in it (camera angles, lighting, atmosphere, etc.).

That being said, vidya doesn't need a Citizen Kane.
Nobody asks for the "Citizen Kane" of literature, stage theater, sculpture, or pornography. Yet, the "experts" and journos will constantly cry out for the "Citizen Kane" of vidya as if it should be treated in the same manner.
The piece that becomes the gold standard for vidya will come or has come, I'm not as versed in it as I'd like to be.

I don't know. I'd watch a citizen kane of porn just to see what that would even look like.

I'd masturbate to that.

Well those trips demand it happen.

It's already happened.

Orson Welles had opinions on that

Oh you.

Orson Welles always struck me as a reasonable man.
Shame he fell from grace late in life.

I wouldn't think the two are mutually exclusive but I've seen enough shit hentai to kinda prove he is right.

This is not Holla Forums
Also yet another thread by some hipster dumbfuck talking of his opinion as fact.

Holla Forums has lots of "art" if you know where to look
the problem in calling vidya art is in using "citizen kane of gaming" as some kind of arbitrary standard that all other vidya must live up to to be taken seriously

the other problem is these coffee shop hipsters who never knew what art was that wasnt exposed inside of their particular artworld circlejerk.

just ignore these people Holla Forums, and try to share true examples for anyone who might be looking for an immersive experience.
pic related

Because it made fun of William Randolph Hearst, who owned a lot of papers and whose cronies managed to strong arm theatres into not showing it. It was generally agreed to be a masterpiece of film amongst the people who did actually see it, and in fact it was actually critically very successful.

Well, firstly, nobody actually said this. What they probably said is that Citizen Kane changed the game, which is accurate. Welles directed, acted in, produced and co-wrote the film. Nobody, or at least very few people, had ever done that before. In addition he pioneered a lot of film-making techniques in Kane that basically changed the way films were being made.

Secondly, while films were widely enjoyed, it was the Supreme Court's opinion that motion pictures weren't art but merely commerce, which meant that, in their opinion, films didn't enjoy first amendment protection. They made this decision in 1915, which gave way to the various censorship boards in 1934. By the time the decision was reversed in 1952 you had so many examples of films being and being expression that it seemed ridiculous to claim that film couldn't enjoy first amendment protection.

Why do artfags always try to pidgeon hole video games "as art" into existing and well known traditional forms of art? Why aren't video games considered art based on their gameplay? Why aren't entirely new standards and conceptions for what qualifies as appreciable art applied for game mechanics, while traditional art forms incorperated into the game (textures/graphics style, music, storytelling) only seen as ancillary and supporting features which flavor the experience of the core mechanics?

Are these faggots so determined to push games as art, that they're incapable of taking the time - or have the experience necessary - to explore gameplay as a totally new form of artistic expression, and instead can only interpret it in term of "interactive" forms of traditional art forms?

gosh, you're more retarded and paranoid than leftardpol

I think he's right in some regard, since it's near impossible to sexually stimulate someone while also making a masterpiece story. Whenever you have a compelling story around porn, the plot takes a backseat once the fucking starts and gets back in the driver's seat when it finishes. I don't think it's possible to focus on both of them at the same time, so you have to compromise one way or the other and that categorically dismisses it as a masterpiece.

They're entertainment, just like vidya.

This isn't paranoia, this is what actually happened

Because the people that make these arguments are people that aren't great fans of video games in the first place and have a very narrow definition of art inspired by what they do really enjoy. Game journos are mostly creative writing grads these days with no job prospects. Their definition of "art" is what they understand well, which is either a story conveyed through a medium that exists only to communicate it to other people (like literature or film) or an object that exists in physical space and conveys a feeling to its audience (like painting, sculpting, and other typical art found in museums or galleries).

To nobody's surprise, they develop one of two ideas of the "ideal" video game: A cinematic experience (movie games) or a digital museum (walking simulator). The real beauty of video games exists in the means in which one interacts with it, which is a more complicated topic that requires extensive experience and skill to grasp. It is a dance between the player who inputs commands and the game which outputs feedback. Naturally this flies over their heads. Game design is either mysterious, unimportant, or even a burden to their preferred experience.

Maybe if you are a hipster SJW who wanted to make sprite art in paint and be validated as an 'arteest'

French thread?

you should write an article, your asking all the right questions.

i think all those things are a combination of inexperience and a very boxed in mindset. A major contributing factor to this ignorance is lack of proper information or not enough information is getting through the "noise".

i too want games to be judged by new standards as its own platform. Things like imagery and tone can still be judged using old familiar standards but not as importantly as it stands within the entire game (i hope)

also people who have the ego to declare what is and isnt art probably dont care about what anyone else thinks.
and dont get me started on how i feel about their worthiness to judge the merits of vidya

MUWAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA LES FRANÇAIS

what's funny is this is the best meme Holla Forums could come up with

INVASION

Transformers?

all of those dubs

My final take on "gaems are art";
>Excluding gameplay vidya is a collection of arts and crafts
Because it is. There isn't much to argue about it but the point people love to skip straigth into "so it must be art" makes my skin crawl.
After all one player controls, one unit/empire/shoot-man even if crewing the same vehicle/ship/whatever (the only exception I can think of is Starcrafts co-op where multiple players controlling same units)
Funny, soundtracks tend to outlive games.
>Craft of gameplay relies on player, no matter how much tutorial is thrown at. Player is solely responsible for elevating their craft to an art
This especially drives Gone Homo crowd mad.
>Gameplay is the heart of a fucking game, thus they cannot be appriciated by people who can't master them
My primary beef with that crowd is they are trying to take out the "craft" out of the "art" and responsibility from artist (as well as the player), as they have been trying to do with pretty much everything else.

It's been around for decades user.

no one wants to watch citizen kane for 60 hours a week

comparing a game of pantheon levels of game design is antithetical to a boring movie you only watch once and never again

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You know what I did this morning? I played the voice of a toy. Some terrible robot toys from Japan that changed from one thing to another. The Japanese have funded a full-length animated cartoon about the doings of these toys, which is all bad outer-space stuff. I play a planet. I menace somebody called Something-or-other. Then I'm destroyed. My plan to destroy Whoever-it-is is thwarted and I tear myself apart on the screen.

artfags in general have been listening to self appointed judges for far too long

What are the citizen kane of each genre?

We already got Quake as the citizen kane of FPS. What else?

Planescape Torment is probably the Citizen Kane of RPGs, but it's hard to say since there are so many good ones.

Cho Aniki is the Citizen Kane of shooters.

The only reason more people don't worship this game is that it was too fucking advanced. Good luck getting more than 15fps on an early 90s computer. Also the Doom team got to witness a demo of it and decided that they needed to do something like that.

Looking Glass, why did you leave us?

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>there are pasty retards delusional enough that they believe that video games will have it's own The Velvet Underground & Nico

>implying the Citizen Kane of porn isn't Debbie Does Dallas

KANE LIVES
DOWN WITH GDI

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It wasn't worshiped because it was seen as more of a tech demo than a game. I don't remember performance issues; I think I copied that floppy the day of release and it ran fine on my mid-range 386. But as a dungeony game, there were better entries with worse tech. I can't remember what else I was playing at that exact time but Eye of the Beholder and M&M 3 were around then.

Anyone here remember when Metroid Prime 1 was declared the Citizen Kane of gaming? (In 2009 when the Prime Trilogy came out for Wii).

I think even the director of Prime disagreed with that idea.

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You dont get to decide what's art and what isn't jimbo.

Are you for real? EotB and MM3 are both considered shit-tier almost universally, i can't tell if this is bait or the contrarian culture has gotten this bad.

Well, Citizen Kane isn't a particularly good movie, it's a grandiose overwrought bitchfest about Charles Randolph Hearst. Oh sure, from the perspective of the cinematography it's technically very well made, but it's not entertaining or engaging, which is why it was a flop. An unenjoyable, unentertaining but flawlessly executed performance is still a bad performance in my opinion.

So for a game to be the Citizen Kane of gaming it would have to be very well made but not enjoyable to play. I'm sure you can think of tons of examples to fill that definition.

Most people who say Citizen Kane of thing haven't watched Citizen kane.

All art is commercial, Michalangelo didn't paint the Sistine Chapel out of the goodness of his heart, nigga got paid.

Can you blame them? It's old and in black and white. There are very few LGBT characters too.
It really should be remade so these things can be fixed

Witcher 3 was released last year

Yes, I think they can be blamed for repeating a meme.

The meme of saying "Citizen Kane of thing" when you haven't watched Citizen Kane.

Man, these are the same fags who know jackshit about traditional art, they don't even know what the term art means, they think the term art is qualifier rather than descriptor, people whose idea of good art is freebleeding onto a canvas in public.

Shut up nigger, its enjoyable if you are not some up-his-ass schmuck such as yourself.

That shit with Polygon and Doom made me think about this stuff recently. I think part of what pisses me off is that these fucking people say everything so matter of factually that it doesn't even sound like they're stating an opinion, but then if anyone criticizes it they immediately say it's their opinion, so it can't be wrong, and you should respect it. It always feels like they're boiling everything down to the most shallow aspects and only reviewing that. I think most videogame "journalists" and reviewers would be better off switching to movies.

All entertainment is art, all cultural output is art, art is not a qualifier for poignancy or gravitas. Dogs Playing Poker in velvet is as much art as the Mona Lisa, the plays of Shakespeare as much art as Days of Our Lives. Shitty products are art, art isn't just cultural output that you deem good.

No, Citizen Kane isn't good, it's a boring bitchfest.

GOOD GAWD AHMIGHTY! HES GONNA LITE'EM ON FIRE! THE ANIMAL! THE MONSTER

citizen kane is overrated

this

vidya is a superior artform

I just reported you to Origin and the SPA

"The Beatles" of films. They're only called the greatest of all time because some old fuck said so.

Video game "journalism" is a joke. The "news" media just frightens the viewer into watching the channel through the commercial break. Vidya "review" websites can't advertise to those that don't visit their website, so they routinely publish the dumbest, most inflammatory bullshit they can to get people to visit and see ads for the companies that sponsor the website. It would also benefit you as a developer to manufacture controversy to increase sales, because the average internet dumbass would read an article where the headline is "Game X is pretty good".

I wish Holla Forums and everywhere else that gets triggered by "SJW" bullshit would realize it's just a way for talentless nobodies and their websites to get attention, and posting about it to troll others is unintentionally doing their bidding.

*wouldn't

Game that's good without controversy: 13K views, 3K sales

Game that's passable but includes something you would post Holla Forums memes about: 350K views, 50K sales

They would need this game, if their job in infotainment has permanently blurred the lines between the two.

What is the "Birth of a Nation" of Video games

what is the transformers of video games

What? Never heard of that "myth" before.
People hold Citizen Kane in regard for pioneering and popularizing many different cinematographic techniques that revolutionized how films were made. With the newly widened scope of filmic techniques, filmmakers now had greater tools for formal representation and thus a higher potential for artistic representation. It's impact is still felt today, and most filmmakers can trace their techniques back to Kane. A "Citizen Kane of Gaming" would be something like Pac-Man, SMB, Doom, Mario 64, or Quake - games that similarly revolutionized how games were made.

Not quite. All creative works can be art, but only if that was intended in their creation. Artistic value is just another potential factor of the works we create, along with entertainment value and utilitarian value. Transformers, for example, was created as a pure entertainment/commercial product, and is not art as it has no artistic value. While his David was a commercial product, Michelangelo clearly created it with some artistic representation in mind.

Of course, being art does not make a piece of entertainment good. It's value then be multi-faceted - it's value as entertainment and as art would be individually measured, even if the manipulation of the work to serve either purpose would force them to interact with each other.