Don't mind me Holla Forums, just being the best protag in the history of my respective franchise

Except he isn't the protagonist of that game you sperg.

do you think he fucked his sister

Thanks doc

Don't mind me, just being the best antagonist in the history of my respective genre.

SJWs pls leave

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someone post the dumb version with a nose

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Daily reminder that after all the heroics and sacrifice of heroes from both ancient and medieval times, Ivalice still wound up a grimdark world where 90% of men are faggots running around in bondage gear.

One wonders, considering the differences in their personalities, how Kid Gil handled having Kirei as his caretaker. Probably part of the reason he grew up to be an even bigger dick in Stay Night.

Not that he did anything wrong.

What annoyed me is that the dude you play as looks the most ridiculous of them all.

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Eh, Squall was better.

Don't mind me Holla Forums, just being the best character in the history of my respective franchise.

Lmao what are you even doing on this board nigga??? Like go back to reddit and play DnD lmao hahah.

Whatever you say user

And that is exactly why he was great.

Victor "Family Man" Vance.

He's the best he is at what he does and he hates it, all to support his loved ones. Downright most capable (gameplay and otherwise) GTA character to date. I sincerely believe Lance hired a double to pose as his brother when he absolutely bailed out from VC after his penultimate pyrric victory at the end of the game, just so Lance could retain the illusion that his top dog brother was still in power after dominating the whole town. The dude in original VC sounded/looked nothing like Vic.

not really gonna argue with that one OP

Delita did nothing wrong.

Yeah, it's explained in the intro of the game. Supposedly the church was capable of covering that up for 50 years including the truth about Delita.

Nigga, the narrator of FFT was born centuries after Ramza's era. He's the one who exposes the true history of Ramza's valor.

The church managed to cover up the truth for so long that it was ancient history by the time the facts got out.

I need to replay this shit again.
psone or war of the lions version?

Advanced 2

Is pizza knight a good game underneath the ridiculous artstyle?

A-2 is….not shit. Except the ridiculous as fuck laws.

Defeating him legit for the first time because I saved over during the inbetween story battles was the biggest fuck yeah in my gaming history.

I'm glad I had a shit ton of healing potions. Didn't even have the best one learned, nor auto potion.

give it a shot

Ah..I remember this fight. I can't tell which is difficult this one, the fight with Velius…or fucking Elmdor and his deadly Assassins (on that note, fuck Stop Bracelet)

What an awful OP image.
It hardly even looks like Denam.

You missed the point entirely to Nasu's writing. Congrats.

especially stealing all his shit too

Also Olan Durai tried to get the truth out shortly after the lion war shit show and was killed by the church as a heretic. I was always bummed out as a kid that you couldn't recruit him or Izlude into your party

If Nasu intended to make Kirei into an unlikable character than he succeeded badly. But considering the end of Heaven's Feel, I would say that that you are sadly mistaken in your analysis.

The actual point:
Kirei is introduced as a false priest in the Fate route by Rin, and right off that bad, Shirou doesn't like him. There's something off about him. Kirei sees enough of Kiritsigu in Shirou to decide that this will be the ideal place to reap salt. We eventually learn about what he did with the children from the fire ten years ago. He pretty much ignores Rin, and leaves Saber to Gilgmaesh: his enemy is Shirou. It's a very straightforward story, and while the two are enemies, there's not a huge amount more put out in that route.

Unlimited Blade Works is where he gets the least screen-time, and the least interaction with Shirou. With the story progressing in a rather different direction thanks to the actions of Caster and by Shirou not being as much of a fuck-up, he instead goes to reap his ten years of accumulated salt from Rin. And then he dies, because there's not enough room in the story for him and Shirou to have a real conflict. Archer and Gilgamesh can take care of that,

Then you have Heaven's Feel, were the two interact a lot more. We learn about how Kirei and Kiritsigu interacted in the Fourth Grail War, and the reason why Kirei had become the type of person he was. We also learn about the misconceptions people like Rin had - despite his behavior and magic-use, he's no fake priest, and can exorcise the fuck out of Zouken and possibly even True Assassin in the later part of the story. The story paints him as the reverse of Shirou - the person who can take pleasure only from the suffering of others. According to his own testimony, he cannot feel love as others can. But whether that is the truth, or simply his own delusions and inability to understand his emotions, is never made perfectly clear. He is constantly torn between his morals, which tell him what he is doing is wrong, and his feelings, which tell him that it's right. Just as Shirou seeks to protect Sakura, he seeks to protect The Black Grail, and the life being born from it. While the two of them work together for the better part of the story, he still stands against Shirou in the very end, once again become the final obstacle. Except unlike in Fate, where they fought as a hero and villain, here they simply fight as mirrors of a different sort: one the boy who only finds enjoyment in helping others, the other the man who finds enjoyment only in their suffering. Both have found a goal worth accomplishing. Both are going to die in a few minutes maximum. And it's during this final battle that Shirou realizes something - that he actually likes Kirei. They could never have been friends. But Shirou is not his father, and in another story, he could very well have had a "mind of steel" even worse than Kiritsigu; in another story, Kirei could very well have been the hero, combating evils like Zouken far worse than himself. But fate would not have it that way - and as HA demonstrates, no matter what happens, Kirei is fated to die. He doesn't belong in the world, and he knew that from well before the Fourth War.

I have a rather high opinion of the character, his place in the story, and how he is involved with the themes of the story.

Fuck you.

Play the PS1 version with FFT 1.3 patch.

They are still the manliest and toughest of men, Japan gets this, westerners seem to be hung up on superficial outward appearance.
We won't see a game as good as Vagrant Story for a long time, I need to replay that.

I won't judge anyone with such an opinion, but having it without having read Dies Irae is just wrong.

That nigger fought off armies, the church and fucking outworldly demons that shouldn't even exist because it was the only right thing to do, even if he didn't receive any form of reward and even though everybody spat on his face for being the only voice of reason in the shitty land that Ivalice was
And he was 16-18 fucking years old throughout the course of the game

Ramza is best protag, but there is one other that comes close.
At least in the JP version. Seriously how the fuck do you fuck up a localization so bad that you completely omit the whole reason the protag is doing all this shit. The Grimoire was consuming everyone's souls to fuel the illusion.

nothing wrong

Seriously? I never knew this.

best boy, best everything

Olan was a total bro and he didn't deserve the fate he got.

FFT is probably my all time favorite game, but this will never NOT bother me.

Wait, source on that last part?

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Denim was pretty cool in all routes, Valeria really fucking hated him though.

That was part of what made his game good though, everything went wrong.

The PSP translation is better.

is this an american thing?
I played the yurop version and in my language it was very clearly said that the books is consuming everyone's life force

Ramza doesn't have a sex drive

And apparently becoming the best character to have in Record Keeper too, whether you have Shout or not.

Yep.

It's literally the source of the "Ramza is a cunt" meme. As far as we knew, he was just doing it because "escapism bad, lel."

I'll overlook it this once, since Ramza was the original topic of this thread

Delita was the protagonist of the story, Ramza was the protagonist of the game.

No, fuck off. Everyone is aware that the grimoire was sucking out the souls of everyone.

The point is that Marche himself didn't actually know that until he had actually destroyed all the crystals and thus ruined everything. His sole motive was "escapism is bad!" as he repeatedly states. The thing about the souls was added almost literally last-minute to give a legitimate reason besides his own selfishness.

He crushed everyones dreams and ideals and doomed his brother to a life of crippled pain solely because he disagreed with their lifestyle choices. That is why he is widely regarded as the villain. All this without even mentioning that the world was 100% real, and not actually an escapist fantasy.

Fuck Marche. I hope he boils and drowns in shit for all eternity.

then why would everybody side with him in the end?
Ritz, Doned to a degree, Babus and even Mewt's fucking father.
That thing pretending to be Mewt's mother was a fake, exploiting the kid's emotional instability to milk everybody dry, fuck that noise.
Not to mention that they had family outside of the book as well if you've forgotten. Marche and his brother and Ritz too. But fuck them, right? I'd rather stay in that fantasy world where a book is sucking my dick dry and is gonna kill me.

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Does anyone else do that one trick where you just kill all the enemies except one, surround him so he can't move, beat him to near death, heal him and beat him to near death over and over again until you get 1000 JP?

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Well, it is undeniably one of the best games in the series.

Come on, can't a man be fabulous while he slays demons?

All three of them are hard, which is why that castle is where all the casuals quit. That and not being able to leave and grind without a second save.

I refused to play Vagrant Story because the MC's antenna hair was so fucking stupid.

The Part 4 anime also looks like shit

My apologies, I should have used a synonym when I said that first "Everyone." That one was referring to us in the thread. All of us here knows the grimoire is sucking everyones shit up.

Everyone in the game didn't. And they didn't know until the very end, once Marche had already fucked everything.

Why they joined and helped him destroy the planet is pretty simple, though. Marche is a fanatical motherfucker who thought what he was doing was just. He also beat the shit out of everyone who disagreed with him. Everyone, everywhere, respects both of those sorts of strengths immensely.

Nasu doesn't write villain characters. The man is almost allergic to any stage of conflict that can be defined as man vs man. It's almost always man vs himself, peppered or with a backdrop of a genuine physical issue (man vs man). Looking into his other works solidifies this. He takes characters, gives them insidious or monstrous traits, but then fills them out over their role in the story to various degrees (Kirei gets a lot, Zouken gets minimal, Hassan got next to nothing even compared to Sasaki). They fall into antagonistic roles in order to get gears going that makes the reader examine the character's various conflicts and obstacles.

In that effect, Kotomine isn't an effective antagonist in the slightest. Both in FSN (all three routes) and F/Z, he's more a catalyst than an antagonist, and he plays more of an antagonist toward Iriisviel and Kiritsugu than his roles against Shirou and Rin. In FSN, his actions are to initiate and more or less annoit Shirou in the Grail War, and then meet him at the end should he arrive to that conclusion. The two times he moves away from that role is to manipulate factors even more for an even worse rote antagonists' will (Gilgamesh), and when shit so happens to hit the fan because a third person decided to act on their own will (Zouken). In each circumstance, he never truly stands opposed even indirectly to what Shirou is ultimately trying to accomplish save until right at the end of the three scenarios. Ultimately a very weak antagonistic role.

Compare in how actively manipulative and driven he was in Fate/Zero, which I won't dive into in detail as this is already getting long. He was actively antagonistic to all characters in that story, even in his own camp (Tokiomi).

Contrast with Tsukihime. Allowing the setting is cozier, you're given a clear-cut image of an antagonistic force in Roa, and Nasu goes the distance to even highlight the man vs man nature of the story. If Shiki & Arc don't stop Roa, Misaki will turn into a ghoul town. And it's also established early on and even reinforced with the bruiser midboss that's sent halfway (Nero Chaos).

But then, what Nasu establishes in one route, he shelves for the other five as the nature of the story becomes far more character-driven and internalized. Roa gets humane traits through backstory and reflections of the people he touched (Ciel, Arcueid), and even the flip-opposite of Roa displays that the "antagonist" role in the story is a murky assignment at best when all the characters are basically walking mental shitpiles of mess trying to outmaneuver each other (Akiha, SHIKI, Kohaku, Arcueid at one forced point). All the names mentioned took on a villian role at one point or the other in Tsuki, but did so with more impact toward the other characters as far as obstacles, revelations, and dynamics are concerned.

That's not to say Kirei & Shirou's conflict is cheap, but it's not something I'd cheer about. I don't think of Kirei when I think of conflict or antagonism in FSN. I think of how batshit fucking insane Shirou is. Or I think of how Rin is going to manage in the world of the Clock Tower despite being a very obvious black sheep of a magi. Or how Sakura will function at all. Or Saber coming to terms with her own retardation—that is, her own shame and guilt at the life she lived.

I think Archer hating himself so much that he created a Xanatos Gambit to become a massive faggot. I just don't think of the priest who pitri dish'd a War he cultivated low-key for a decade. Especially since two other forces did the same to equal level.

He's still cool, though. A strong character. Nasu writes strong characters. Villains and pure antagonists, not so much.

No. I do the trick where I beat the enemy to submission, let them run away at low HP, slap squire skills on whoever I'm trying to grind, and have them cheer until all those godforsaken expensive fucking summon spell JP requirements are met.

Fuck the summoner class AND the Black Magic class.

Yall niggas doing it wrong, kill all enemies and let turn into crystals, story mode enemies give you lots of abilities, most classes show up as random enemy encounters early, unless it's your first time playing you can avoid the grinding path for most stuff.

In fact i managed to beat 1.3 doing only story mode battles.

You should take that challenge some day even just in vanilla.

Get ready to slice pizzas and break the law, nigga.

Who is that beauty in the background?

Sydney doesn't have a shirt because his back tattoo is literally the most important thing in the game. Ashley and Rozencrantz have ineffectual armor because they're berserkers. Everyone else is reasonably dressed. Wipe your nose before you criticize Vagrant Story.

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Whoever it is probably has no porn

Damn, you guys are really making me want to go back and finish WotL. I only beat the original game. I dropped LUCT despite loving it too. After awhile fighting battle after battle I just get sick of things. I wish there was no random battles, so I could do all of the side shit without getting burnt out. Next time i play I'm just skipping the side shit so I finish it.

it's not like the world of Ivalice would be destroyed, the book itself stays in tact and I'm fairly certain that Marche knew as much, and so did the rest of the gang
that's a logical flaw I see all the time, since if they really wanted to go back so badly, they could technically do it any time, but after learning that it sucks out their life force, I doubt they would choose to