Is being NEET a form of anti-capitalism resistance?

Well it's a form of resistance against social democracy and the welfare state not really capitalism as a whole.

Well, it's not exactly "conditions". Capitalism creates unemployed (not exactly neets - you can still be in training).

Only if you organize with fellow unemployed and workers against capitalism.

Going out innawoods and living there is a form of anti-capitalism resistance. You, on the other hand, are indistinguishable from the rest of the capitalist supporting cattle on this board and in life.

Not entirely.

Fucking primitivists. Don't forget to contract some hideous disease so you can become a martyr.

fuck soviet dissidents for eating kolkhoz food and riding the moscow metro, what a bunch of cattle

Yeah you are right.
Capitalism just has a way of creating unemployment embed into it, not a big deal as you can still be studying to get a useless degree or something. I totally don't see how this can turn a part of people into NEETs.

Easy there. I didn't make the connection and explained why.

Being a NEET is not revolutionary but you can use your free time to support the cause

Not really, since capitalism could exist concurrent with a basic income. The bourgeoisie will need their state to provide a basic income to allow them to still make profits after automation wipes out all the jobs.

Marx failed to understand this since his view of automation had a place for the proletariat as the "conscious linkages" (see fragment on machines) in the means of production, whereas since we now know AI can be a thing, the means of production can provide their own conscious linkages, no longer requiring an army of lever pullers. The 19th century extrapolation of automation was that there would be these rube goldberg type machines that would destroy the need for management and specialization, raising the power of the workers who were the necessary lever pullers directing the highly automatic machines. The problem is that true automation wipes out even the lever pullers thereby reducing proletarian labor power to zero, and empowering the bourgeoisie and managerial class.

This is something I don't think has been much considered by many socialists who prefer to think dreamily of FALC, but in fact the logical extrapolation of capitalism and automation is that the bourgeoisie maintain their power, and the proletariat is destroyed as a class, being turned entirely into lumpenproletariat through universal welfare. Social democrats will lead the way to this final form of capitalism.

Once this process is complete, and the ex-proletariat is fully pacified, even the military can be fully automated with robot soldiers completely programmed to be loyal to the bourgeois state.

From there it is only a few steps to exterminism. The materialist view of history says that what can happen is what is likely to happen. Right now, the bourgeoisie need the proletariat more than the proletariat need the bourgeoisie, but full automation allows the bourgeoisie to flip this relationship and stave off revolution and crisis in capitalism by turning the proletariat into lumpens.

In this new theory I am crafting, you could even say that this represents a system beyond capitalism, since it has a completely different class structure. It's essentially a post-exploitation mode of capitalism where all labor comes from intelligent machines, and the proletariat are gradually completely unemployed, with the welfare system expanded to A: allow the economic system to continue cycling, and B: to pacify and stave off revolution until this new lumpenproletariat can be exterminated.

Under this theory, there must be a successful revolution and DoP before full automation is achieved, otherwise with everything in bourgeois hands the proletariat can be made redundant and then destroyed once full automation is achieved. This means that the fight for a communist society has a time constraint and comfort is our enemy. Capitalism must go into crisis BEFORE automation hits and the campaign for Basic Income must be unsuccessful otherwise it's all over. FALC only works if a DoP is in place, otherwise it's mass pacification and then exterminism. The bourgeois alternative to communism then comes into existence in which the controllers of the robots kill everyone else who is redundant and then live in luxury forever.

Most socialist don't see this and can't see this, since they treat socialism as a comfort producing machine rather than a battle between two classes who will use any means to destroy each other. In Marx's day it was only possible to understand that the proletariat could make the bourgeoisie redundant, but in the modern era with an understanding of automation that goes beyond the sense illustrated in Fragment on Machines we can see that there is a game plan for the bourgeoisie to make the proletariat redundant too. The comfort derived longing for communism leads to reformism, and under my theory, reformism will soon mean mass death.

Yes because you don't do any organizing, and you aren't studying theory to guide organization

Absolutely killing the rate of profit. How does this empower them when it will instigate a massive economic colla-
Oh, you're insane. A literal doomsday prophet.

It doesn't kill the rate of profit if they provide a Basic Income Guarantee. That also staves off the collapse.

So you're saying that when all of the proletariat are lumpenproles whose only role is to consume, the bourgeoisie will be so kind as to continue bankrolling their existence when they could just get rid of them.

Fuck off. I literally built the roof currently over my head, and the floor I'm standing on.

If you don't know what it means for the tendency of the rate of profit to fall and how that's linked to the rising organic composition of capital, then perhaps it's not as simple as you envision.

And how is this global genocide to proceed, oh great sage?

meant for
sage for retardation

However the bourgies please. Probably not killer robots like the other user says. Some kind of biological weapon is more likely, or maybe neutron bombs, since it would make it easy to reclaim the land from us once we're all dead.

I do note that in my theory they have to bankroll them for a while because automation isn't an instant thing. They must bankroll us to stave off the decline in profits (Marx didn't predict a universal welfare state), and so they swap direct wages for a taxbase provision one to one. Later when the military is automated and reduced to just a few human generals (Marx didn't predict means of production with their own "conscious linkages"), THEN exterminism can begin.

Think of it like the bourgeois version of the Marxist-Leninist conception of "socialism" where it is the transition state towards communism.

Proletarian Victory:
Capitalism > (Revolution to disempower borugeoisie) > Socialist state/DoP and total collectivization > Pure Communism

Bourgeois Victory:
Capitalism > (Bourgeois revolution via lumpenization to disempower proletariat (come up with a snappy name please someone)) > Exterminism and total privatization > Pure ? (What should it be called? I think Pure Capitalism, since it's the total victory of capital).

Read: and understand simple diagram. Think of the implications of a 100% automated army in a bourgeoisie controlled society.

We need a revolution very soon. 2050 might be the crunch time.

Marx was wrong about this. Profits are supposed to fall because mechanization leads to less employment/lower wages which means less consumption which means no revenue which means no profits.

The problem with this is that there's a very easy solution for the bourgeoisie, which is to replace wages with a Basic Income Guarantee. Later they can simply kill the pacified lumpenized redundants, allowing them to dispense with providing the BIG and moving to a non-profit based form of accumulation (robots serving the masters to mine more and more shit and make more and more luxury accommodations).

Marx's entire theory is based on the idea that only labor can produce new value, but that's false since with the correct blueprints initial inputs of labor can produce (bourgeois directed) self-reproducing capital. Marx had an incomplete understanding of automation as exhibited by the Fragment on Machines, and he didn't predict the utility of a welfare state in combination with full AI driven automation because in the 19th Century automation was treat as something where workers still had to be involved to keep processes going that were merely simplified and rationalized massively. The organic composition of capital doesn't matter, since all of its capacities are replicable, and if you don't believe this you are simply not a materialist. Marx's materialism was incomplete.

Just bombs doesn't work. My theory only works because they can remove the human dissenting element from the military, monopolizing power.

Essentially, Marx failed to predict Zombie Capital.

Well, you should probably be educating yourself in some way, even if it's just learning Japanese so you can read obscure hentai. Aside from that, yes, NEETs are true revolutionaries.

So your futuristic accumulation form is basically modern China's property market? This is ridiculous, non-profit based accumulation is a contradiction in terms. Are they directing the robots to create use-values or some kind of value-free production? If so then why kill everyone? It doesn't matter anymore. Genocide risks the whole system collapsing into insurgency and civil war. This is nonsensical. Theory is supposed to tell us about what's really happening in the world not what's going to happen in the future based upon your bullshit apocalypse scenario which you can't even prove.
You're presupposing advances in computing and AI that have not been made yet. We have no idea if full automation is even possible – it's pure speculation. Have fun with that.

Nope. Wrong.

If I have an army of robots that do exactly what I say and are able to fix themselves and each other as well as construct new robots, then I essentially have a self-contained automatic economy and can just have them mine and build anything I would need ever. This is literally how FALC works, only if the bourgeois use the strategy I outlined they can take things down the exterminism path and monopolize everything to themselves.

This is wrong. They can accumulate more if they kill the lumpenproletariat because then they'll no longer need to divert resources to them.

Civil war is impossible when it's robots versus humans. It's like swatting flies. We have today rock paper scissors robots that can react in 1ms, compared to a human 100ms reaction ceiling. Silicon is just that much faster inherently than chemical synapses. You recreate a human brain electronically and it's ceiling for speed is going to be much much much higher.

What? By this logic, Marxism isn't a theory.

Yeah, so?

Wrong.

Automation is intrinsically possible providing you are a materialist. We already have an example of brains since humans have them. Once we have a general theory of mind we can gain the capability while tweaking other capacities to produce compliant variants that don't exist in humans.

It's basic logic that follows from the materialist position. If you DON'T believe this, you are some weirdo spiritualist mind body dualist idealist and you need to go and construct a gulag to throw yourself in.

Fantastic.

> Marx's entire theory is based on the idea that only labor can produce new value
You sure it's not the other way round? I.e. it wasn't that Marx based his theory on the fact that only human labour should be accounted for when new value is produced? As in - that would be the only ethical thing to do.

it isn't really because being neet in a capitalist society necessitates living with someone else who's paying for the resources you're consuming so i don't think it's really any kind of resistance considering capitalists are making the money they want from you. same even if you're alone but on welfare.

but i think the anxiety about society that comes with neethood is perpetuated by capitalism especially to someone who's anti-capitalist. you don't want to work in this system, and even if you try to, no one's going to accept you because why take a previously job-less experience-less neet instead of the many others much better integrated into society with experience? it creates a personal vicious cycle.

basically capitalism creates neets but also has no real place for them. so no, i don't think it's a kind of active resistance, just a personal product of a shitty system.

Marx's argument on value is descriptive, not prescriptive. Otherwise he wouldn't have predicted a declining rate of profit due to mechanization.

What I'm arguing is that he failed to understand that "dead" labor in the form of capital can come alive by making the means of production intelligent. That's why I term it zombie capital.

Of course the other possibility I didn't mention is that if the bourgeoisie unleash this force they may also be consumed, since automation intrinsically means handing over control. It's kind of like the Genie problem where you can't phrase a wish precisely enough to not get results that fuck you over.

Exterminism could happen due to bourgeois class interests as detailed above, but it may be that the bourgeoisie themselves follow straight afterwards as awakened capital destroys them and tiles the Universe with computers running trading programs.

You're a very entertaining shitposter, I'll give you that.

Dear, oh, dear.

(cont)

Marx saw capital almost as if it was an alien force imposed on humanity, but being from the 19th Century, he still conceptualized the ultimate extrapolation of this to mean that workers and bosses were the consciousness of a capitalist superorganism.

With a modern understanding of AI, capital can think in a much more profound way, since it can dispense with these organic linkages. The means of production become the complete system. Nothing but means of production.

Capitalism wakes up.

This pleases me.

Also I like the implication that without immediate revolutionary action the world will become a literal science fiction dystopia novel. There seems to be this idea that capitalism will automatically implode upon itself, but I think the truth is much more horrifying. Capitalism gains influence during crisis when there is a lack of revolutionary movement. And if 2008 sets a precedent then we may get a future resembling what user is laying out here.

And so we break our backs lifting Moloch to heaven.

Being a neet is like being a fucking parasite.

Neets should commit mass suicide, because once the revolution comes, they wont have any useful skill.

So does this mean that /x/ was right?

How is being a NEET different from a strike? If everyone became a NEET it would be no different from a national strike.

Strikers make demands, demonstrate, and then bargain. How effective would a strike be if all the workers just left work and did nothing else? NEETism is less effective than that, because at least those people had the job in the first place and disrupt production by leaving.

At some point, when the bourgeois own everything about the MoP and the proletariat have nothing, the machines are entirely automated, and there is almost no need for anyone to do anything to get wealth, money as a concept breaks down. All you'd have is literally the state printing out valueless money (in the form of mere digital notes in a bank) to give to the ex-proletariat who then give money to the capitalists, where it stays. And nothing ever changes this. The money has literally no point to existing. The capitalists make zero profit when the money itself is meaningless. How is it meaningless? Well because you realize at some point that even fiat currency is backed by the market itself and that simply having "monies" is an abstract concept when your economy is just a straight fucking line from state to capitalist pocket.

pfft, enjoy the rice fields kiddo

The bourgeoisie will defend their private property, there will be wars, starvation environmental disaster etc
They could kill the mass of humanity without directly killing anyone, just by defending their property and not interfering when people are starving

If we NEETS entered the workforce, wages would be depressed even further….

So NEETS refusing to work these cuck jobs is a good thing.

If everyone was as "lazy" as NEETS, capitalism would collapse over night. You would have your revolution over night. But people are willing to suck a dick in order to survive so that's never gonna happen. BASED NEETSocs like myself are in the minority. I would rather suicide than work a cuck job again.

That's not how it works, fam.
NEETs might refuse to work these shitty jobs but there are always gonna be people desperate enough to accept it and people forced to NEETdom not by choice but because there isn't enough jobs for everyone.

If you think it isn't, you're retarded.

Oh sure there are far more job applicants than job vacancies right now. Most NEETs are NEETs by circumstance. Not by choice.

I don't mind working. But just because I don't want these cuck jobs, people look down at me like I'm lazy. Whats wrong with wanting a job with dignity? A livable minimum wage. Good hours. There is no reason why we should have 40+ hour work weeks in 2016. Considering the size of the reserve army of labour, we should be moving to a 30 hour work week

I am losing hope. If it's true that the DNC rigged the Democrat primary election for Clinton and that B████ was the rightful winner, then the only thing we can do is revolution. Whether violence or mass work refusal. But the working class in the first world has no interest in doing that. I'm at least doing something by refusing to work. And speaking out against wage cucking on image boards. But I'm just one person. And porky probably doesn't want to hire me anyway tbh.

All desk jockeys and cubical farmers should kill themselves, because THEY won't have any useful skills during and after the revolution.

You know what the wacky thing is? I had a very similar conception in my mind, that the endgame for the bourgeoisie was to develop total automation and flee to Mars, leaving us proles here on a ruined Earth to rot. I thought of this idea about a year before Elysium was released

It pleases you? It terrifies the fuck out of me. The working class is still too stupid to understand the difference between capitalism and socialism, and now you're saying we only have less than 40 years to prevent the inevitable mass extermination of 99% of the human species at our own hands?

Hell it appears they've already gotten a head start.

Oh, I said in a conversation ~5 years ago with a conservative that the US was approaching its last chance at peaceful reform. After that, the inevitable result will be the violent, painful dismemberment of our society, and I have just enough red American patriot blood in me that I desperately want that to be avoided.

I'd argue simultaneously yes and no

PORKY IN DISGUISE DETECTED

I don't think there will be an overthrow or anything coming close to a revolution in the US any time soon so as long as class consciousness remains suppressed, all we can expect to see at best are sporadic and containable outbursts of aimless violence like that experienced in the LA or Baltimore riots.

If those willing to fight were better informed, they could direct their energy into meaningful and sustainable action.

They ARE parasites and politically muh privileged, nothing more than pawns of the state that will fight to keep the system afloat when push comes to shove. They live off of usury of surplus value, always remember that.

Speaking of welfare. Ever wonder how imported scabs live off a few dollars an hour in the first world and don't really give a shit? The state pays the rest of their living expenses through the "welfare" system, they're state subsidized workers to keep wages low.

...

They don't want you in the workforce because you as a native citizen have rights, and like annoying things such as weekends, pensions, vacations and overtime pay. That's why capitalists bribe the state to import serfs the employer can threaten with deportation.

The sad thing is you're economically stunted for life and won't be able to compete with people that have been working, networking and learning for years, if not decades, longer then you. Your best interest is honestly just praying the autism bux keep rolling in until you croak.

THOSE SOVIETS GOING TO SPACE AND USING THOSE TELEPHONES SHOULD HAVE WENT OUT INTO THE WOODS, DON'T THEY KNOW TECHNOLOGY = CAPITALISM. HURRRRR DURRRRR I'M LITERALLY SO RETARDED THAT MY DICK HURTS

It's more of a symptom of capitalism than anything.

NEET's are the real revolutionaries

wagecucks should bow down

But user, you had to obtain the building materials from porky.

Therefore, it's impossible to live without porky. Be glad that porky exists.

Unless machines start being paid wages I'm not really sure this holds up. Intelligent machines have a similar relation to the means of production as a slave, and unlike a slave their output is constant rather than variable since they don't need to be compelled to work.
Your "zombie labour" is still dead labour, still constant capital, and as such marx's theory should still hold.

Being a phd student and working as a scientist in research institute, I am the same parasite, living off of usury of surplus value.

When the jobs get blurred into socially necessary ones, bullshit jobs and at the last place the actual productive work, then everyone is slowly becoming culpable of the parasitism that you bemoan. The major chunk of our productive work being consumed in the west is being done in the China and rest of the Asia.

And the actual action on the matter, which creates the value along with the material itself, is being done using automation and mechanization mostly. Pulling a lever and pushing buttons is not the same as digging a work tool into a metal casting to machine it by hand. Read the passage about metal scraping in the Gingery series of books on machinery. Compare hand scraping a piece of aluminium, and making a flat on a CNC milling machine.

So how does me(or anyone else for that matter) being the parasite living off of someone else's productive work make me a proponent of capitalism? How does that make me want to keep the market-crashing war-creating private-property based system in place?

You just antagonize those who resort to desperate measures out of necessity, fully knowing that the system is wrong.
Your comment about neets only serves to downplay everyone's personal convictions they made, in spite of their circumstances that somehow make them culpable in all this. Therefore it is a bait that I took with no regrets.

How do you ensure that your NEET time does not simply go to waste? I am curious what do you do in your allocated work time that you designate for yourself. If I were a NEET, I would work on diy recycling stuff. Smelting aluminium and making a gingery lathe and other machines. But unfortunately I have to study and be a scientist while there is homelessness and poverty in the same city, hell within one kilometer of the institute.

I'd call it being a victim more than resistance.

mckenna was really fucking smart and well-read. kinda weird he was so hostile towards communism

Hell, it's not even been good violence so far. Watching the live streams of the Charlotte riots, the thing that kept running through my head was, "STOP RUNNING YOU DUMBFUCKS, STAND AND FIGHT!" Yeah they smashed some shit, the city had to pay lots of police overtime, and the insurance porkies probably took it in the shorts, but nothing really happened. They didn't even break anything important or symbolic. Instead they fell right into Holla Forums's narrative: looking like a bunch of frightened animals, easily chased away by men with sticks.

We need revolutionary soldiers, people who are specifically trained to hold a protest line, with the bulk of the fair-weather crowd protected behind them. We need people who can set up effective roadblocks that don't depend on playing a giant game of chicken. We need people with encrypted radio earpieces so they can communicate with each other as well as folks who can see the bigger picture. And we need a bail and legal defense fund so people will not be afraid of getting arrested.

I fear we won't be getting anywhere without these things.

It's called Vanguard.

Who needs robots when we have a possibility of extinction by as early as 2030?