Vivek Chibber BTFOs idpol and SJWs

He's pointing out the overall weakness of SJW antics when it comes to politics. Sure, he says there are issues of race and gender and whatnot, but the ways in which SJWs deal with them result from a bad epistemology.

Emotional blackmail is NEVER good strategy.

Look at this one from the Un-man.
youtube.com/watch?v=4Y3e2dohrNM

Disney is fun man.

you can't "organize the classes" until the dominant group is aware of their muh privilege. No one is going to show solidarity with the oppressed on any level until they're made aware of how oppression is furthered by their own speech and behaviors. Chibber is dead wrong.

[citation from a peer-reviewed journal needed]

Let's say I'm a white male. How do I go about fighting for justice alongside the oppressed unless I'm AWARE that I contribute to oppressive social structures in my everyday life?

disregarded

Go to EverydayFeminism. I'm sure they've got plenty of "studies."

how about you go back to Tumblr first

All I'm saying is, whiteness matters and being able to recognize how oppressions manifest and intersect is important.

Ruling classes are the one that create the conditions for oppressive social structures. Trying to make a portion of the opressed worker class share the blame kills all attempt to "organize the classes". Plus, there are no "classes" to organize, only one. Trying to subdivide the working class into different subsets with different hierarchies is exactly what porky wants. I mean, im not saying you should get banned but this is the ABC of the political stance of Holla Forums, im surprised you are shooting this and no one confronted you with this arguments already.

So the way to organize the working class is splitting it and then pit these splinters against each other?

Go back to /Liberalpol/

I'd post this vid to /r/anarchism but I don't want to get lynched.

Yes, college-attending SJWs that will become glorified desk-jockeys in government, industry, academia, and NGOs paid to fight "racism", "sexism", "transphobia", "anti-refugee sentiment" are the future of the socialist struggle

This.

Why should a white man fight for an oppressed group they don't belong to in a fight which offers them nothing in the way of making their life better - especially if they're already struggling to make ends meet? Altruism? Masochism? Far more sensible to just sign up with Trump or some other idiot right-wing demagogue.

Genuine socialism joins hands across racial boundaries, because it recognizes that despite spooks like "race", proletarians are oppressed in the same ways and that the liberation of one is the liberation of all.

We fight to overturn on genuine oppression - i.e. capitalism, an economic system in which people spend half their lives or more working to enrich a tiny minority. We do not care about imaginary "contributions" to an "oppression" which has nothing to do with material structures. Real muh privilege doesn't require activist campaigns to raise "awareness" - the millions of dollars, yachts, and private jets are more than sufficient.

Take your Holocaust garbage elsewhere.

Welp now I know what the combined form of microscopic aggression filters to. Top kek.

Look: personal responsibility is a thing. Being willfully oblivious to your muh privilege hurts the left because it ignores very real forms of systematic oppression that manifest in everyday life.

White people who gentrify neighborhoods full of working class PoC need to be aware of the effect their presence has in that neighborhood because it leads to bad outcomes. They have responsibility to understand the very real-world implications. This isn't about shaming but about showing people how things really work and their role in it.

...

and it would be nothing without the support from certain groups

Why would this be the case? Their neighborhood will be objectively safer with white hipsters than poor brown people.

Why should white people be exempt from personal responsibility?

When I first started lurking here, I would have considered this kind of thing and the whole "idpol divide the working class for porky" spiel as overblown "brocialist" shit. But as I've reengaged with politics after years of apathetic social liberalism (burned out on social activism about 10 years ago) it's become more obvious that this is really the primary effect of this kind of politics. It's a reactionary creation machine and makes easy wins for the right.

50 years of dissolving racial tribalism among "whites" in the west is in danger of being undone right now. And it's the not the KKK or some other white supremacist groups standing on the corner screeching about niggers that's causing it, it's "us". Or at least, it's the liberal-left/social liberals/SJWs/whatever. When you insist long enough and hard enough that "whites" are a class with different interests to "blacks" or "browns" or "PoC", people start to believe it. And when one side is the one excoriating this "class" and accusing them of what amounts to original sin because of their skin colour, it's hardly a surprise when they start to look at the other side more favorably.

I've seen people who I used to work with years ago in social activist circles now seriously considering supporting right-wingers - the kind of people they would NEVER have considered even speaking to - because they've been convinced by their own side that they have interests as fucking white males or whatever that are in opposition to the prevailing narrative on "the left" (in the mainstream sense) and that they'd better start voting and supporting groups and parties that claim to have their interests at heart. Or at the very least ones that oppose the overt racism/sexism/other-ism that is now largely the domain of their erstwhile allies on the left.

The right doesn't even need to DO anything except point at what is coming out of the left. That shit speaks for itself. So if you're really keen to accelerate the rise of the nationalist right we're seeing throughout the west, that kind of divisive idpol shit is a great way to do it.

this so much.

How are proletarians (of any "race") responsible for the actions of the bourgeoisie and rentier class? Is it simply by living in a capitalist framework and seeking affordable housing therein?

Do you honestly believe there is such a thing as ethical consumption under capitalism - and if so, how did you find a computer to post here with no coltan mined from virtual slave labor?

This is satire, yes?

Surely nobody is dumb enough to believe this?

But white people leaving neighbourhoods to be away from pocs, commonly known as white flight is racist.

White people living among the fucking pocs is racist because gentrification.

There is no winning with this logic or you, if you is serious.

>>>/gulag/

I hear you, and yes, the "divide and conquer" thing was one huge reason for the failure of Occupy. Oh hell, I've had the kinds of people who would have been denounced as "SJWs" four years ago tell me that Occupy fizzled out as quickly as it did due to the infiltration by actual SJWs (specifically, the academic left or the kind of people who get paid to write shitty articles for Jezebel-like sites). One of them told me she almost lost it when an SJW at Occupy said to her, "Yes, it's all good that you guys want to fight the banks, but don't you know we're literally camping out on INDIGENOUS LAND?". And it's like, okay, I know that, so how do we integrate indigenous liberation struggles into our praxis? What's the direct action that needs to be taken?

The fact that idpol is all mental and no action is all the reason you need to see how toxic it is.

To be fair, there are degrees of ethical consumption. If the Palestinians tell me to boycott Sabra Hummus and buy Cedar Hummus (which is made by a Lebanese family living in Lawrence, Mass), I may very well do that out of solidarity.

what are you talking about? Overt racism being frowned upon is not the same as racial tribalism dissolving.

There isn't.

By that logic, you might as well chuck your cell phone, or any kind of medical equipment that was invented or produced in Israel. Buying American products also ensures you pay sales tax, some of which will no doubt be put to military aid packages for the IDF.

Go live in a fucking hut in the forest if you're so up your ass about it then

I dont even care for the whole cultural appropriation shit but holy fuck leftypol is so fucking stupid and your arguments are ifunny tier

When everything is declared racist against >muh PoCs, people become numb to the idea and critique of actually dangerous racism becomes meaningless. What are social liberals going to do, call them racist and applaud smug Vox articles chiding people for excellent views? Wow, that's not going to do anything.

I am literally more racist now because of idpol than I would have been otherwise, to the point where I'm totally on board with black separatist socialism because it means I won't have to interact with them.

Is anyone actually listening to the Chibber video? He makes great points about the Democratic Party becoming the party of tumblr to get votes.

Most ethnic restaurants would dry up in a week if white people stopped eating there.

Good post

how so? it's nothing more than the 'racism was almost over until obongo/shillary/libruls came in and now racism is all over the place' mei mei

Bad post

No. user is specifically referring to how idpol has destroyed leftist movements by bringing more tensions between whites and poc on the left.

idpol BTFO by based rabbi.
youtube.com/watch?v=AJd9q_0I3KQ

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It's wrong because the focus on class without any focus on race, gender, disability or any other form of oppression leads to white guys leading the movement, which only reinforces white chauvinism.

Also this:

youtube.com/watch?v=_qAUBLkhoI0

That's some of the most reactionary shit I've ever read on here. Take your bizzaro racist nonsense and fuck off back to whatever idpol ridden shithole you came from.

The people gentrifying neighborhoods are hipster petty boojes. It shouldn't be a race issue though.

Sure, then stop eating cheeseburgers, lamb intestines, and other culturally white food. And stop playing pianos, because those were invented in Europe.

I'm not seriously arguing this shit, but it's the same sort of logic. The only difference being that whites aren't an "oppressed minority". Oh I know, everyone needs to stop eating shepard's pie and drinking whiskey, because the IRISH are an oppressed minority.

no it isn't, you even acknowledge it here

What funny is the vast majority of those hipster urban professionals probably support the reactionary original sin narrative that the idpoler was going on about.

Which doesn't refute his original point. It's still "cultural appropriation". Inventions from not only Europe but other advanced civilizations in the Middle East and Asia are deeply integrated into our daily lives. The only way to not comment "cultural appropriation" would be to live in the fucking woods.

White people were not the dominant group during certain times and places.

This is a better argument against lifestyle politics, veganism, and boycotts than it is an argument against idpol.

Not always. Sometimes they're just university students looking for a relatively cheap place to live.

You must have stopped reading before:

*were an oppressed minority.

The difference is, the Irish and their culture have been assimilated into the dominant culture. Things like bindis, hijabs, cornrows and locs haven't.

I hate idpol because most types of idpol are liberal and non-Marxist.

So what? Most radical movements become reformist and liberal like unions, minimum wage struggles, housing struggles, student movements, etc.

no, i read the whole thing

is nonsense. Irish are white and are a part of the dominant group.

see

And as I said earlier, I disagree with the way cultural appropriation is being used now, but that doesn't mean I will defend horrible funnyjunk/reddit tier """""'arguments""""" like 'well you use the things that are standard in the society you live in, it's the same thing!!!!!!'

pls point me to the post where i claimed they were. I know you're very emotional right now but please try to think clearly. We are talking about america, and whites(mainly people of north western european descent) are the dominant group.

Ah, so Greeks, Portuguese, and Italians aren't white?

they are but they arent the dominant group, they're not in the positions of power nor do they make up the majority of the population that identify as white

Oh so you're a Mick shill. Now that makes sense. Trying to divide the non-irish huh paddy? Well It's not going to work. I can't wait for the potato famine 2.0 .

What the hell is the "dominant" group. "White" is a category that only makes sense in America and barley even works here. It's not like all "whites" are completely in charge of society or some kind of hive mind.

okay maybe i wasn't clear before

so the dominant group in america are whites, but the dominant group within that group are north western europeans. The Greeks, Italians, and Portuguese are part of the dominant group that is white but not part of the dominant group within that dominant group.

North Western Europeans make up the vast majority of white americans.

thought i was saying that southern europeans aren't white when i said

So i was just clearing that up for him

...

lol, i remember that thread

I fucking hate that term.

No seriously, I've seen Third Worldists claim the Bolsheviks teaching Uzbek and Kyrgyz women to read was an act of "social imperialism".

You mean, "I disagree with it."

race, gender, disability, and so on, aren't forms of oppression, but axes of oppression, and without the ultimate goal of eliminating the class system imposed by capital then fighting whatever issues you think are important regarding those facts is just fighting for certain special groups to have access to bourgeois priviIeges. I'm concerned about the millions of immigrant women being exploited for their cheap labor, but how many female CEOs or university deans there are is completely irrelevant.

wew lass, why shouldn't white guys be in charge if they're the most qualified? Leftism needs to be organized and lead by the best individuals we have, whatever their skin color or sex or whatever.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean or how you could even quantify or measure such a thing.

Also ^this

Who determines who is an oppressed minority then? Is it their relationship to the oppressor? Then what do you want the oppressor to do, stop borrowing parts of oppressed minority's culture? They can simply oppress them in other ways. Why not target the tool of the oppressor, the State? But who controls the State? We can't simultaneously say that the State currently serves bourgeois interests and that it serves the interests of white people. A majority of the white population is working class! If white people controlled the State then it would already be proletarian, why aren't we converting the United States to Socialism right now? Because that's not who controls the State, the State is controlled by the bourgeoisie. Taking that into account, we can then consider that oppressed minorities are being oppressed by their relation the bourgeoisie. This group that you call "white" does not have power like the bourgeoisie does. If that power is to control cultural dialogue, a white person must also have influence on the bourgeoisie State. I don't see how you can liberate oppressed minority by alleviating a symptom of their oppression.

You sound like a Holla Forumsto when they try and explain why all the dark skinned peoples of Africa are just "black" despite the massive cultural differences between them and African Americans. This is your brain on idpol. All you're doing is applying reactionary race theories to "whites" instead of minorities.

As someone who is 1/2 Armenian and 1/2 Assyrian, this makes me fucking rage.

As much as I hate Unruhe, he's right about B-e-r-n-i-e being a sellout.

The thing is that this is all just a smokescreen, it's window dressing. It's the controlled opposition of the liberal "left" that essentially makes it look like it's doing something about systematic inequality, and intentionally shifting the discourse towards social issues while ignoring how these issues spring from class conflict. It acts as a lighting rod for the dissatisfaction of the nonwhite working class while focusing their frustration away from capitalism and onto racism and the like. Meanwhile the right does the same with the white working class, focusing their frustration onto immigrants, "welfare queens", etc.

idpol all started with Laclau and Mouffe.

Fucking lost it.

This. PoC wouldn't be living in white countries had whites not stolen everything from them.

you p much have to like disney to enjoy tumblr at all

i thought the whole 'cultural appropriation' thing was when porky used a watered-down form of other cultures to sell to white people to make them feel exotic or something.

are you guys arguing with some randy's tumblr post from two 1/2 years ago with like five notes just cause it's easy?

i kinda agree but js male dominance hierarchies exist without capitalism too

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Fuck I thought it was a work of satire by the youtuber.

It's satire.
checkingoftheprivilege.tumblr.com/

to reactionary identitarians cultural appropriation is when people with lighter skin do something that they don't like

bostonglobe.com/arts/2015/07/18/counter-protesters-join-kimono-fray-mfa/ZgVWiT3yIZSlQgxCghAOFM/story.html

Yes. The culture of narcissism is poison.
youtube.com/watch?v=C0aQDi5Y1aQ

yeah i'm with mckenna when it comes to cultures in general (as in: they're shit and inherently dangerous) but like this kind of shit isn't something invented by tumblr or whatever. it's just a standard nationalistic byproduct of culture that's always been happening.

i think shaking your fist at liberals is missing the point a bit

cool opinion oniichan