Educate me on Venezuela. If you're Venezuelan that would be even better

Back in the day it was one or two everyday.
Then it was one a week.

I guess pol is not baiting with it any more.

I'm not from Holla Forums at all & all I wrote is true. I'm interested in your perspective of things.

Not only that but they're probably the political group I hate the most atm, because I used to believe in some of their bullshit 4 or 3 years ago. "alt-rightists" are the biggest memers, most stupid, plain dumb political group on earth they're super enslaved by ideas by grown up religion basically. And sadly most of that cancer was born in 4chan.

Why does anyone even care so much about Venezuela?

Even if it was MUH TRUE SOCIALISM, it's still not the disaster everyone claims it to be.

Only afro?

It's not even Socialist. It still has a bunch of pirvate businesses and organisations within the country. It is putting itself on a push towards Socialism but it itself isn't Socialist.

The reason the economy is fucked right now is directly because of their commerce offices in regards to trade are pirvate. The way they manipulate the exchange rates for USD and other Bolivian currency fucks the country over dramatically.

I think they've lost more than their actual economy is worth through this scam. So no, Venezuela isn't Socialist and it would be much much better without a private customs service, frankly that's just a very retarded move by the Venezuelan government. Don't have any fact sheets on me atm but I think there's some good articals on Telesur or something.

Also, fuck the US intervention and embrago.

I don't care about it at all. I just would like to know the conditions he come from & had to endure, etc.

pic related is you, lets leave it there

Yeah it seems pretty much like Mexico, the country I'm from. I'm not poor through on the contrary I'm a trust fund bitch.

bump

I don't.

As West descends deeper and deeper into the pre-WWI reality of poverty and racial hatred, propaganda machines need more and more examples of why "Socialism isn't an answer".

Venezuela simply happens to be part of the news.

If some other state was going down, it would've also been branded "Socialist" and once it was branded "Socialist", no effort would've been spared to exacerbate it's "Horrors of Socialism".

So you're saying Venezuela isn't really socialist just another Latin American Banana Republic pretty much right?

Makes sense. Why would it be any different tbh? The difference is that the dictator dresses in red more often instead of in a suit.

That would be oversimplification.

In my opinion, every modern state is Socialist to a larger or smaller degree. You can't say about any state that "it's not Socialist".

The question is whether the dominant force of economy is "sufficiently Socialist" for a state to be considered Socialist - as was the case for USSR. But that is not the case for Venezuela. It neither went "industrialization" route (which allows for some non-democratic measures to be taken), nor attempted direct democracy - lack of which is inexcusable, if you are not going Planned Economy (and even then the degree of authoritarianism should've been much lower, than was the case in Venezuela).

Venezuela did attempt some Socialist measures - which should not be forgotten; nor should Bolivarianism discarded as simple Capitalism - but Venezuela never actually became "Worker State" (predominantly Socialist), nor did Bolivarianism transition past the limits of Reformism (aka SocDem).

tl;dr: Chavez might've been better than Sаnders, but that's not saying much.

Does this answer your question?

UPHOLD CENK UYGUR THOUGHT

what kind of stupid memer post is this? kys. discuss or gtfo of my thread.

Venezuela calls itself socialist. No shit, people are going to say that it's socialist.

The pinnacle of tankie revisionism everyone.

No wait this is.

Basically this is what happened to make us use Cenk Uygur as an insult… youtube.com/watch?v=BRM9PdDf3zA

then you have the audacity to call people liberals

Anarcho-Wolffism is not Marxism.

Neither is ML.

Ok. Why does Venezuela suck so much? I just want to know.

Good question.

Failed welfare state that didn't invest in anything besides oil.

also I seems like it's a very banana republic.
dumb dictator, bourgeois class even through they say they're not, elections are always rigged, corrupted & very one sided. Chavistas are typically the kind of dumb poor nationalist people.

Supposedly it's about class equality (fake, see comic in my OP) but like any fascist government it runs on the ideal of dumb blind nationalism.

[citation needed]

Did not industrialize.

Cenk is that you?

Every ML country maintained wage labour and the relation between the capitalist and proletarian still existed. You have yet to provide one reason Richard Wolff is not a Marxist other than he doesn't like the USSR.

That's Marxism. I've saying it here for months. Why the sudden meme?

That is not correct.

There were no Capitalists, you lunatic.

Except I already did it many times and you never read actual Wolff, nor Marx (or Engels - Wolff hates him because of Anti-Duhring).

...

It seems industrialized actually. But yes it's on a more "poor's man" level of industrialization.

What are you talking about?

Industrialization = heavy industry.

Shameful display in the replies, comrades.

What happened in Venezuela is not socialism and never was. Why you ask? You just have to check the golden rule: Are the means of production socialized, or are they in the hands of a small elite? If the answer is the second then no matter what Fox News says, then its not socialism.

And is not even failed socialism, as they never strived to build it and failed in the attempt. Seizing the means of production was never in their agenda, while some of the biggest capitalists and bankers made deals with the goverment to keep profiting and helped grow corrupt burocrats who held power in a personalistic way. Some fools were convinced by "oh, but we have to make NATIONALISM before ending capitalism" and gave the revolution a little bit of red color. To their credit, there was a national assambly that almost had power and almost helped build direct democracy. I had some comrades from there that were a part of that and had high trust on that local assamblies and the base power they could hold. But sadly nowdays all the power is concentrated in the figure of president Maduro and the rest of the burocrats.

All this being said, do I have no respect watsoever for the process that venezuela went trough? No, thats not the case. When their revolution happened the country was in shambles. The rethoric of "a rich country gone bad due to socialism" is just laughable to anyone that knows 1% of Venezuelan history. People literally starving in the streets and the whole country being pillaged by foregin forces. As a fellow latin american it is impossible for me not to feel a small degree of sympathy for those who -after our region suffered many bloody proUSA and ProCapitalism dictatorships- at least do something. Sadly burocracy, personalism, and socialdemocracy ended up being "as bad" as what had came before. And the worst part is that what will follow this is not the National Assambly making a second revolution, kicking the chavistas burocrats and insuing direct democracy (a beautyful dream tho) but what will follow is a pathethic pro USA ultra right wing goverment that will destroy the working class and sell 100% of the natural resources of Venezuela to the highest (or lowest) bidder.

Interesting little detail: In your OP image the hipocrit is saying "the equalty among classes is guaranteed". This words alone show a betrayal of socialistic ideas, as the point is not to make "the classes equal". Thats Social Democracy that tries to find "balance" between exploiters and exploted. But such balance will always be a lie and end up harming the opressed, and thats exactly what happens in all this "national-socialistic" latin american experiments.

Only tankie retard is saying it's socialism, and he's one of the most retarded posters on here.

[citation needed]
They were state capitalist

How could it be socialist if it had mixed markets?

Well but no one was taking their time to explain the MoP thingie to our friend here. Maybe now after this thread he will realize the obscure and secret fact that the ownership of what makes our society and our lives is what determines the kind of sistem you live in.

Maybe someone should familiarize himself with DiaMat?

Thank you man this is very useful.

Wage labour implies that the surplus gets appropriated by the Capitalist. Who appropriated surplus in USSR? Bureaucrats? I must say that makes this a question of control of them via direct democracy. I.e. crime of corruption. Political - not economic.

Either way, that stolen, appropriated share was negligible, compared to the Capitalist economies, where it is fully legalized.

The lion share of surplus in USSR came back to the population via "social services": subsidies of everyday goods (that were priced according to the needs of the population, rather than their cost of production - law of value, btw), paid vacations, state-paid medicine, state-paid education, state-paid kindergartens, cheap transportation, cheap housing, etc.

Surplus was not monetized, yes. But you can't actually say that USSR had wage labour.

That's post-Trotskyism right here.

No. Wage labour implies that the surplus exists. Only then can the ones who appropriate it (if any) be called "capitalists".

This explains it so well

Holla Forums is ultra stupid but as another user said. You can't blame normies or 2 digit IQ people who don't read when they call Venezuela "socialist".

Hugo Chavez says it all the time as if they were really socialist or some sort of special snowflake country even through it's government it's another shitty Banana Republic ran by blind & dumb Nationalism. Nationalism might be the dumbest religion in the world.

Is this nitpicking or actual response to the whole post? Because it does not compute in the context given.

Or are you trying to say that workers need to be paid in the product they produced for process to be properly Socialist?

By your standards Nazi Germany was socialist

Not an argument

It was called "socialism of the 21th century"

I kid you not.

All of "socialist" countries are state capitalist, but in marxist leninist theory state capitalism is a means of getting to socialism.

blogtalkradio.com/socialistvisions/2016/09/13/the-struggle-for-socialism-in-venezuela-and-brazil

Listen to this when you have time.

I am right now. Thanks.

Predominantly? No.

reddit.com/r/vzla/comments/53wfto/oficialmente_hay_dictadura_en_venezuela/

Venezuela subreddit: "Is Venezuela officially a dictatorship now?"

(thread made in response to the national electoral center wiping their ass with the constitution again)

You know how hyperinflation works, right?

We're seeing it just before the economy completely shits itself and dies.

Newborns are already dying from shit like malnutrition and not finding equipment and medicine that should be fucking everywhere. People die from things that could be easily treated in any neighboring country. Following a required diet is pretty much impossible, you have to take what you can find.

While the rest of the world is moving forwards (or just staying where they are), Venezuela is moving backwards faster than anyone else.

the rest of the world is teetering on the brink of economic ruin. Venezuela is just ahead of the curve

To clarify, they said that they were going to count the 20% of votes by state. If the national total (how shit is supposed to work) is like 60% but one state manages to end up with only 19.99%, the referendum won't pass.

The constitution says that it has to be counted nationally, as it was done with Chávez's referendum. They're completely ignoring that.

This subreddit helps a ton. Thank you user, thank you to all of you Holla Forums.