Anons, I have to write an 8 page essay about Dragon Quest and how it's influences Japanese culture.
I've got a pretty good outline, but I'd love some sources and fluff for various things. I can troll through Wikipedia and get it eventually but I'd also just love a Dragon Quest thread in general.
I just heard about XI the other day because of this project, anyone else hype? It looks glorious from the little bits they've shown so far.
Pics are at least Dragon Quest-y.
Other urls found in this thread:
chronocompendium.com
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
I have very few DQ-relevant pics.
All i know is that's it's a shitty generic JRPG but it's huge in japan because nips are fixated with turn based combat and all that gay boring shit.
When a new DQ releases they try to release it on a sunday because if they don't everyone doesn't go to work at once and their economy collapses for one day.
It's generic as fuck but shitty's pretty arguable m8.
It's generic because the series as a whole either created or borrowed and blended together a lot of the things now seen as "generic" in JRPGs. Top-down map exploration form Ultima, turn-based random combat from Wizardry, the invention of class systems for III, monster catching V, the establishment of the medieval era in JRPGs, etc.
If you don't like old-school turn based stuff, it ain't for you. Yuji Horii streamlined the fuck out of older games for the time in order to make DQ comfy as possible. It's shitty if you want something painstakingly intricate or that requires reflexes, but there's a lot of nuance and slower-paced skill involved.
Look here's the problem i have with turn based: it's a fucking abstraction.
Turn based is an abstraction that was used in video games when we didn't have the technology to propely show on the screen a guy hitting something with a sword with satisfying visuals and good player feedback.
It was a necessary abstraction because at the time we just couldn't do any better, so we left the player imagine what was actually happening, fill up the holes with his imagination.
But these days it has become fetishised by neckbeards that genuinely think "if it ain't turn based it's not an rpg", and that's the kind of attitude that pisses me off to this day, just because it's an estabilished system, doesn't mean such an abstraction is automatically superior to how ARPGs do it, where if you swing a sword, you swing an actual sword and that's the end of that.
It's the difference between drawing a gun on a piece of paper and handling a real gun, if one prefers the piece of paper because the fantasy of the gun shooting and the slower pacing that doesn't require you to be tense and pull the trigger yourself is more appealing to him, that's fine, but when he goes spouting that it's superior to shooting an actual gun, then we have a problem and he's being an elitist neckbeard piece of shit.
Yes, it was an abstraction necessary for the time, but honestly DQ was the one that perfected it and brought everything together. They've got the right to keep doing exactly what they've been doing since '86, especially since they were the first ones to ever get the magic just right. Sure it isn't the real fantasy thrill, but so what? It's still fun to me, and a lot of people still find it fun.
And I love the games for what they are. They're nice to just sorta have on in the background, and made for exceptional portable console games when the tech got good enough.
I get the feeling that you really dislike turn-based because it's dated, which I agree with you. It's classic. But so what? If that's not your cup of tea, play something else. And if anyone can "get away with" being classic, it's Dragon Quest.
And before you start, I never once said it was superior. And I don't believe it to be so. I think the DQ series is superior to a lot of other turn-based JRPGs, though.
When will this meme die? It was based on D&D combat. It had nothing to do with lack of technology you Fucking retard. Arpgs like Ys, Star Ocean, Secret of Mana, Terrinigma, Alundra, Tales, Brave Fencer Musashi, Threads of Fate, etc have existed as long as turn based. Its a style, people like you who say it was "lack of technology" reek of Reddit and underage. Speaking of, how about you go back?
You go back to reddit too fucker.
No, turn based combat was used in computer and video RPGs because they were based off of D&D, which was turn based. Even before Dragon Quest you had games like the original Dragon Slayer which were doing real time combat.
There's lots of things that came about only out of necessity but have stuck around because people actually like the thing.
Pixel art and chiptunes came about out of technical limitation but there are people who genuinely and unironically enjoy that visual and audio style.
Would you say that people should stop drawing/painting portraits just because we now have cameras?
Besides turned-based lends itself to particular types of game design. And ARPGs aren't perfect particularly because the genera is prone to "decay" into simple action games and loose their RPG elements.
But that's stupid.
DnD itself is an abstraction based on the limitations of pen and paper, idiot. Game designers followed the same approach because they knew it would satisfy players and it was feasible given the current technology. Read a fucking book.
You fucking simpletons, D&D rules are also an abstraction rooted in necessity.
Do you even think before posting this shit?
How can you realize it was all based off D&D yet not realize that D&D was an abstraction in the first place, do you lack any form of self awareness whatsoever?
Then you get this stupid nigger attacking the same person he's agreeing with just because he's less of an hipster than him.
And you get this stupid motherfucker that doesn't know anything about the history of DQ and japan and how it has influenced japanese society for as long as DQ has been around.
What the fuck is happening to Holla Forums?
Where did all these dumb motherfuckers come from?
D&D was not turn-based in the original rules. That came around later, particularly with 3rd Edition and onwards.
It could be played that way, depending on the DM. But the proper and most technically accurate way to go about it, in the round system which was developed, was to have every player announce their actions. Either the player group or the DM would have the initiative, and thus react first within the round; however, the main determinant for things like attacks in the round was weapon speed and the segment in which a given spell would be activated. Depending on what actions were announced, they would transpire within their given segment, modified based on character level (Fighters gaining multiple attacks) and initiative.
You can't manage that with a computer. Even the most advanced turn-based game can't handle the command input "I reach into my pack and pull out a potion of healing, which I drink, before throwing the empty bottle as a projectile at the enemy illusionist while he is casting his spell" or "I cast jump, leap off the balcony to the chandelier, sever the rope so it comes crashing down on the party below, and then leap off it and back to the balcony" or whatever ridiculous shit your party would want to pull.
It's quite easy for a good DM, but impossible for a shitty one. People are shit, so the games have since moved into a format more similar to a video game.
Way to miss the fucking point.
They were pointing out that turned-based rpgs are based on D&D because you asserted that it was due to technical limitations, which is untrue. Get some reading comprehension.
So should people stop playing DnD now since we have something "better"?
We still haven't helped OP with his homework.
Way to move the fucking goalposts.
BOTH reasons are true, it's an abstraction that made it easier to work around technical limitations of the time AND they used the D&D system because it was already there, that in turn it was an abstraction used to work around RL limitations, unless you actually wanted to whack the wall with a drawing of an orc on it with a wooden sword.
How is he moving the goalpost? You asserted that turn-based in JRPGs was solely because a technical limitation of the consoles at the time and then and rebutted your point. Then you called everyone a stupid nigger.
Further more rebutted the point that DnD was (always) turned-based.
I think your the one moving the goalpost.
No, i never said it was solely because of technical limitations, i implied that technical limitations were the main reason of using the pre-existing D&D system, and i stand by that statement.
They're both abstractions and they're both out of necessity, so it made perfect sense at the time to adopt and adapt that system to video games.
Just been playing through Dragon Quest 4.
I started with 1 and have made my way, blind. Well I have allowed myself to look at the Over world maps cause that shit game with the game on release. The encounter rate can get pretty annoying, but man does this series have a lot of charm and charisma.
Also, I fully agree that these games are not for a lot of people. No, they are not casualized Rpg's, they are Streamlined, learn the fucking difference.
Comfy as fuck too.
It's okay, I have most of what I need. I just need specific sources for shit.
So far I've talked about how it influenced the creation of Tactical RPGs, Pokemon, and the solidification of the JRPG genre in general. And then I got dinner and called my mom.
On one hand I'm mad that Squeenix C&D's the DQ7 3DS fan translation. On the other hand they were retards who decided porting the PS version's script was a good idea. Basically I want someone else to start a fan translation, someone who attempts to be decent.
We're gonna get DQ7, though. Even if it is the shitty accented version.
As an actor it's kinda fun, actually. Sometimes I'll giggle and parrot a particularly terrible line out loud in a shitty approximation of the accent.
Alright, I'm starting to write about the games' scenario designer Yuji Horii. Anyone have any interesting tidbits about him while I work on the basics?
My favorite part about Wikipedia is how fucking well-cited it is. Fuck educators, shit's legit.
Yuji Horii
Am I missing anything?
I know the Japs think of him as the Walt Disney of video games.
IIRC Dragon Quest became so popular in Japan, that they invented a new word to refer to the series as. I think it's pronounced "Dra-Kwe", but I'm not sure.
That's a bit of an overstatement. He, Hironobu Sakaguchi(the creator of the Final Fantasy series) and Akira Toriyama all came up with the idea for the game during a trip to America. Horii wrote the basic plot, Kato(Chrono Cross, Xenogears) then fleshed it out, and Sakaguchi and the people under him came up with the gameplay.
Here's an interview if you want to read more about it's development: chronocompendium.com
Yeah, I realized it was a bit of an overstatement after I started reading a bit harder. Thanks for the interview!
Moving on to talking about…
Akira Toriyama
Any DQ-related tidbits I'm missing?
Bumping for ideas. I'm basically just saying this greentext but wordier at the moment. Cresting 3 pages (of a minimum of 8, double-spaced) and I haven't written my intro yet.
After I talk about Koichi Sugiyama I'm gonna start running out of steam fast. I can discuss the rumors about passing a law against releasing DQ games on workdays, but that'll only kill about a paragraph.
Time for
Kōichi Sugiyama
Sure ARPG can play differently but don't argue that there shouldn't be both, look some people like slower paced gameplay so that is an option
Why not compare it to Final Fantasy, especially the way the series have diverged of and with DQ remaining its traditional routes actually makes it more succesful than FF
I could, but this is supposed to be more about what the media has contributed to Japanese society as a whole. I've made a few various references to Final Fantasy so far. I could jam a comparison paragraph in there somewhere.
There's an actual Rudia's Tavern in Tokyo because of the series' popularity. It's in Roppongi too, not Akihabara, so it's frequented by people other than otaku fucks.
I'm definitely talking about that, as well as the ballet and some of the animes if I can. Of course I can, who am I kidding.
Do you have any articles on-hand about the bar? I know it was supposed to serve as a place for DQIX players to meet up and swap maps and shit, but it's also a fully fledged pub and still exists right?
Should I talk about puns and wordplay? I don't speak moon so I can't exactly attest for it's popularity in Japan, which is why I'm not too inclined to actually talk about it at length.
I remember reading this awhile back and wondering what he meant when he said there's a point to cheat/quit in II. I don't know where he meant. I'm guessing the Road to Rhone, which even if you manage to hightail it out of there you're in the second hardest area of the game, still kind of far from somewhere you can save and heal.
Well thanks.
You playin NES DQIV? I started the ds version but I'm thinking of dropping it for a better fan translation if it's available.
It's so weird that Final Fantasy has the more mainstream American audience when DQ is the real star of the show in Japan.
Also is DQII the first japanese media where goggles were featured on the protagonists for seemingly no reason?
I've seen it in shit like Naruto and other anime where the main kid has some goggles on top of his head that he never uses they're just some accessory.
Also I always thought it would be cool if the frail prince in 2, who becomes a badass magic user at the end becomes consumed years down the road by evil shit and the other two have to stop him.
I think it would make a cool game just not turn based.
And there could be a sappy ending where they fight on the island with the world tree and the girl has to decide who to save or some shit.
There's a huge difficulty spike in literally the last area of the game before the final dungeon, IIRC. I never played it.
I'm also the guy who wrote that post ages ago. It needs refining but I still think it's a good jumping off point. I think I'm gonna plow through II and VI this summer since I'll have some spare time and re-make that image.
Oh yeah, my first pick there is the dungeon before the fairly short overworld segment that is before the final dungeon of the game.
It is a bitch and very tricky and once you get out of there you're probably going to be in not a very good situation.
What impressed me most though about DQ1 and DQII was that I was actually fucking roleplaying and immersed in some 8-bit pixelated game, and it felt kind of like a Toriyama type manga.
In DQI you get your ass handed to you again and again, but you learn what enemies to prioritize, what will and won't kill you etc, and by the time you get some shit done and swing back around the map you're running through shit with the ability to kill in just a quick flick of the wrist essentially.
With the Road to Rhone it really felt like I needed to get the hell out of there only to be faced with an out of the frying pan into the fire type feeling.
III loses some of this near the end because the game is pretty damn long and messing with your classes makes it feel more gamey and less adventurey, especially when you're having a clown/dancer follow you around just so you can turn him into a sage en route to the real final boss after you find out your initial quest was just a warm-up.
Anybody know the name of the one TV show where the protagonist is obviously the protag from DQV, and they have a lot of really funny shit centered around JRPG tropes?
There's the one where a rogue has a poisonous knife, he licks it while he's threatening the party, and immediately realizes what he did and dies. And another one where the mage learns a spell that makes people really hungry and it winds up being useful as fuck.
I'd love an answer to this.
I can also post a pastebin of my essay so far if people want to make suggestions to help me fill things out. I haven't added quotes yet, and honestly if I wrap things up as-is and start plugging it with quotes here and there I'll be able to make the page requirement.
That's just a rich NEET japanese Turbo Autist OC creator from 2ch.
Do they have a Youtube or something? Even if I can't use it in my essay I'd still love to watch some of it.
en.wikipedia.org
Well I almost didn't talk about it. Dick. Shit looks neat.
Never ever ever, never ever, ever ever ever ever.
Don't forget to tell about the accents, how shit they are and they were put for progressive retarded reasons.
DQ fans who know Japanese seem to dislike translating even though they could be doing it during a second playthrough, watch, or read.
Pic related?
Something something hero Yoshihiko
DQ and FF should never be compared.
They were forced in as a dub with DQ8 which apparently crippled the games speed but it was kinda enjoyable. The head of localization after SE stated Dragon Quest was dead in the west, refused to allow any Dragon Quest g ames to come over without the accent crap with the only other game I've heard of getting the overblown written accents treatment being FF14.
It can be blamed upon Richard Honeywood who apparently was behind other horrible localizations such as Xenogears. Since the head of localization refuses to allow them over without accents, we ended up with a butchered DQ4, botched DQ5, I think they cooled it with DQ6 (never seen anything said about it when it was rarely talked about), and DQ9 being illegible at some points.
Post Meena and or Maya.
Translation is a fuckton of work.
Imagine, playing through an RPG, if with every menu item, item description, and line of dialog, you had to pull away and type up exactly what it said, where it said it, and the context and implication.
Even if you are only doing the translation during play and leaving it to somebody else to patch it or something, it's a lot of work.
Wasn't talking about patching.
Hell, they could skip the brunt of items, it just sucks that all the other RPGs are getting the treatment.
That kind of attitude is why we have to deal with shitty localizations. If Tales fags and Final Fantasy fags can translate and retranslate every single game in their respective series, then DQ fags have no excuse for crying that it's too hard or too much work. lazy nigger
Wonder if we'll ever become lucky enough to score translaters.
I used to love DraQue, but the mechanics have become so stale that I just can't play them anymore. This is most apparent in the DQM Joker games, where you realize that 90% of skills are either completely useless garbage or just renamed copies of other identical abilities, or just dry-ass stat boosts.
This series needs to tear itself up by the foundations and fundamentally reinvent itself.
COR BLIMEY!
If DQ ended up with your fetish in it as part of the experience, what would it be like?
holy fuck I loved that game
remake never
pretty much, was really disappointed in dqmj 1 and the lack of monsters
Do you mean never as in never happening or like Chen as in it will never come over?