Meleefags are trying to get eSports considered to be real sports

Watching speedrunning is even more autistic than watching esports. Speedrunning skips tons of content and many interesting parts and sometimes do some weird glitches, but it's only worthy it to watch speedrunning once since they will keep repeating the same things over and over and over.

Esports are interesting to watch because they actually change each time people play, people watch esports for the exact same reason people watch traditional sports: it's fun to watch people compete.

I know there are a lot of autists around the smash scene, but for fucks sake it's even more autistic to not understand why people enjoy watching esports

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Their game isnt even e sports. Top kak

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PLEASE FUCKING DIE.

it took off with RTS and arena shooters, which are actually interesting to watch regardless of whether you think games can be sports or not

They're literally doing this just so some top player can actually travel to play.

He was a fucking moron though because he was sponsored by an American company and tried to enter the US with a tourist Visa, which is why he's gotten into so much trouble and why he's having trouble getting a business Visa.

but why

I don't even hate smash, unlike smash 4, melee has alot going for it.

To be fair, sports are just games people play obsessively, same as vidya.
I wouldn't call someone playing vidya an athlete, though, because there's nothing athletic about vidya. They could still be called professionals, I suppose, or maybe a new term needs to be coined, like the term "mathlete" for those smart fuckers that do the math bees.

Playing Vidya is not a sport. Get your lardy ass out of the chair and go outside once in a while.

Nobody goes to sit infront of the computer, hits up Counter Strike for a 60 minute training session to get better. Unless you're a complete faggot.

Don't professional chess and go players already get visas and shit?

but chess and go are good games

question; Do you think it would be more logical to call E-Sports E-Comps?

Since thats what it is, really; competition. Its not a sport in any stretch of the word.

I don't understand why they thought a petition was necessary. There have been many highly documented cases of Starcraft players getting legitimate visas for esports reasons. I guess the immigration officials just thought this guy sucked at playing.

In the future, fucking eating Doritos, drinking Cola-Cola and watching TV are going to be considered sports. Landwhales will be considered athletes and the pinnacle of human ability.

NUKE HUMANITY.

They checked his bags and only found 3 replacement gamecube controllers.
Proving this guy is a fraud.

Seriously the joke of a game shouldn't be allowed visas anywhere.

Neither should any Esports for that matter but seriously fucking smash is the largest joke of a "competitive game" I've ever seen and I watched a coin flip competition

Nah, the guy they're making the petition for just tried getting by with a Tourist Visa first rather than a Business Visa, despite being employed by an American Company (TSM). That's why he's in trouble now. Other competitors from the same country as him are able to get by without trouble.

Maybe, but I find it opens up a can of worms considering shit like Poker is considered a sport.

Honestly, I did see shit like this coming, but I find it hilarious that rather than coming from LoL or CSGO fags, its coming from Meleefags, who want so hard for their game they constantly use exploits for to be respected so their "skills" can be more than a massive waste of time.

In the future, fucking eating Doritos, drinking Cola-Cola and watching TV are going to be considered sports. Landwhales will be considered athletes and the pinnacle of human ability.

NUKE HUMANITY.

I figure if anyone is making over $70,000 in prize money yearly from a BIDEO DAME, they deserve a VISA for the purposes of competing. That was the case for SC2 player Polt, for example, although as I recall for the longest time he was here on an educational visa and attending college, so I guess it's still pretty rare.

In the future, fucking eating Doritos, drinking Cola-Cola and watching TV are going to be considered sports. Landwhales will be considered athletes and the pinnacle of human ability.

NUKE HUMANITY.

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WAN AN TWUH

It's true though, you niggers do have doublethink when it comes to exploits. If you truly think competitive Melee is bad becuase BAW exploits then so is any competitive scene for an FPS

Melee has a place in tournamnets. But Smash 4 had no place in EVO. Prove me wrong, pro tip:
You can't

You just gave everyone free reign to call you a meleefag and immediately disregard your posts, regardless of quality.

Have fun.

Oh no! What a nightmare!

Nigga, when did I say that? I'm saying the "competitive" play of Smash is dogshit because its extremely centered around exploiting the game. Any game where the competitive scene is based sole-y on this is dogshit. Hell, the majority of eSports is garbage in general, from tactics to how shocking it is in popularity.

I guess you really hate Quake then.

I do actually. Was always more of a Doom and Descent person myself.

What's wrong with this? They are competing in games with rules at a very high level, same as actual sports. The entire reason they're petitioning for them to be considered legitimate sports is for visa reasons for competitions.

I think the biggest problem is calling it "sports", as that has connotations to strenuous physical activity, while the actual physical part of e-sports is mostly just finger dexterity and reaction time.

Still, as chess is considered a sport, I see no reason e-sports can't be considered so too.

Learn about the things you're shitting on first. Otherwise your comments just seem completely uninformed.

Then again it's Holla Forums, so talking about things you don't know about is really just part for the course.

Nigger you just completely fabricated an argument out of nowhere, better take your medication.

shooting guns at targets is also a sport, by no means is that physically demanding either

W E W
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Nigger I dont even play CS or know anything about it, stop assuming shit

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you mean the majority of the younger crowd in the "FGC" are just a bunch of melee children?

Who would have though.

That is a good point

The entire reason theyre petitioning is because leffen fucked up with his Visa but wants to make a huge deal out of it and look like an autist in the process.

It's literally his own fault

Snookers is considered a sport. Chess and Go are considered sports. Poker is considered a sport. Why can't a video-game be considered a sport?

Let it happen.

Last I checked, fucking league is counted as a sport, just so people can't get blocked from entering countries and shit like what is happening to leffen.

My comrade of african american visage

VAN AN TUH

From a purely objective standpoint though, what would disallow League of Legends from being considered a sport? You can say what you want about Riot's shady practices and how shit ASSFAGGOTS are, but in the grand scheme of things it is another battle of wits and skill and one group of players can be objectively better than another, can't it?

*isn't it.
sage for being a fucking dunce.

IT'S JUST A FUCKING GAME

If you weren't so out of fucking touch you'd know CS and LoL players have had similar problems before.

Nigger, I was saying I was expecting this petition to come from them and not fucking Smashfags. Learn reading comprehension.

I never thought I would see another user recalling the competitive potential in WA. High level matches are beautiful sightings, the problem is that a big chunk of them are Shopa crap.

Doesn't matter. It's a genuine problem, that doesn't just affect Leffen, but also other people in e-sports. Take Mongolz or Pyth in the last Counter-Strike major. They both had to withdraw due to visa problems.

Well chess is somehow considered a sport, so why can't esports too?

because in the case of chess they didn't have to ban 90% of the game.

Ban Queens, All pawns, Rooks, One knight, no colors, no side advantage, Bishops are OP, King+1 knight only.

Ehhh maybe, you'd have to be a stellar team and the enemy would have to be a dipshit team to totally turn the tides if the dipshit team had a headstart in anything for example. League matches are usually all but decided within the first few minutes and everything past that is just prolonging the inevitable.

Huh.
What about esports in general? I think you don't ban shit in say Counter Strike or Starcraft.

Didn't they do this shit for Rugby since it has 2 Leauges.

it is because Worms Armageddon has pretty low skill floor and infinitely high skill ceiling, there wasn't a good worms game since that game and people are too autistic to play more sophiscated schemes than regular intermediate and autismshopper

there's a lot of balancing going on lol and dota since they just can't leave them alone and they always fuck up something trying to balance what was perfect but sligthly off in some cases, even in fighting games they just wait with biggest balance changes to the next sequel for better or worse

bonus points for LoL hermetizing gameplay so much trying to play outside the designated meta is banworthy. you're not playing a game anymore, you take a part of battle betwen two lobotomized team-machines and you're just a mere cog

sc2 has a map pool for the set and both players get to veto one map each usually

Wasn't that mostly pure politics that happened because of dick waving in the 1890s
But yes rubgy is and always will be shit.

It doesn't change the fact that it is still a game of skill and the better and more co-ordinated team has higher chances of winning over their opponents. In fact last I checked DOTA is WORSE in the whole snowballing aspect because of losing gold upon death and buybacks allowing a team that is ahead to return from a stupid mistake. A friend of mine stopped playing League but he still watches the competitive matches and he told me how the recent finals of a tournament were very close and had some comebacks staged.

It's still a shitty game with an atrocious community and teammates who will intentionally throw the game to the enemy if you DARE take their buff from them and games that last way too long, but you cannot deny it has an actual competitive aspect to it.

Though if anyone asks for a sports visa for Hearthstone then let me know. I need a good laugh.

Sports VISAs for poker and roulette are a thing.
Somehow they still don't manage to be as hilarious as people pretending to think smash is a sport.

imagine that
"We only play with number cards 1-5, only 2 suites too, the rest just add in too much RNG"

Normally this is just a question of semantics but:

That makes it a different matter.

Is your disdain for meleefags really so bad that you'll defend a legal double-standard just to fuck them over?

He wasn't though, he just fucked up and used a tourist visa like a dumbshit

How? There is zero skill involved

…so he then applied for the correct visa and told he couldn't because double-standards. Hence the petition.

Unless of course you're saying his problem is he shouldn't have gone for a P1 Visa afterwards. The petition doesn't make that clear.

Except that's the wrong visa.
He should've used a business visa because he was a sponsored player

Don't ask me man

Mmkay, if we are going along that route we need a proper analogy for Smash and sports,

Smash Bros. is like a deck of cards. There are many ways you can set up games with a deck of cards and many of them are very fun with friends, if very RNG-reliant. However, there is also a type of game with card that has an actual skill cap that is Poker. There are even variations of it like Texas Hold'em and some are more popular than others.

You can pick up Smash Bros. as a party game with friends with lots of randomness and fun options that is not meant to be serious, just like if I set up a card game for Go Fish with friends. You can also pick up Smash Bros. as a 3D fighting game with many different fighters and playstyles but limiting randomness so the player's control and reflexes are at stake here, just like a game of poker.

Is that a better analogy of why Smash Bros. can be considered a competitive game and a party game at the same time?

There's nothing sadder than a Meleefag

Let's look at what's actually banned.
Hardly a significant factor in the game and obviously banned for their RNG. They also favor faster characters that can just camp for item spawns. Although it wasn't an instant thing, for years they tried to incorporate items but eventually they could find any balanced rules for that
While a significant portion of the game, these were very unbalanced in design. Big stages made camping a lot more viable. Walk-off stages also encouraged camping at the ends and made waveshining a lot more effective than it should be. Certain other stages had extremely exploitable geometry that created infinite combos and such. This was also something that took plenty of years to figure out. Even in like 2006 you could take people to Rainbow Cruise and in 2009 you could go to Green Greens, but eventually all the imbalances were found out. I mean if shit like this was allowed in tournaments now then you'd see a hell of a lot more Foxes all over the place.

But even with that, I'd hardly say that's 90% of the content - more like 40%. None of the characters or other gameplay mechanics are banned (save for wobbling to stall).

It's actually worse, because in your own terms, there is no professionally played variation of poker that removes 66% of the cards.

Mmkay. Then any card games that use a Stripped Deck (aka limiting a deck of cards to 32 by removing 8, 9 and 10 cards) can't be competitive?

Like STRIPPED DOWN POKER?
u.arizona.edu/~mwalker/JEE2008Stripped-DownPoker.pdf

Find a better argument. Your "removing cards" isn't even part of my original argument above. If is dealing a different game to remove randomness.

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COMPETITIVE
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No mention of stripped down poker ever being played competitively outside of the classroom exercise you just linked.

also if "removing randomness" means removing large chunks of the game, then the argument holds, and look what smash does exactly.
Removes large portions of the game for that exact reason, because it's a party game and trying to elevate it to anything past that is a massive joke.

It exists to illustrate the point that removing randomness makes the game MORE competitive. You are focusing too much on observing it as poker and not on the fact that what people are altering is the SET UP of a smash game to make it competitive. Adding items is like having the draw element of Go Fish and the ability to play again when you get a 4-card set. There is no skill to it. It is random. It favors one player heavily and allows him to continue a good streak. Poker limits draw and increases player interaction, just as competitive smash limits items and stages to increase player interaction.

But I guess there is no point if user over the internet looks at 1v1/2v2 smash tournaments garnering so much more attention than say Guilty Gear Xrd and still calls it a "party game" with a straight face.

Except it isn't.
At all.

They're altering the base game to such a degree, while the core mechanics that make it a party game are still in.
While attempting to make it as hard core as they possibly can, the Devs added a mechanics specifically to tell them to go fuck themselves and they didn't take that as a hint.

I'll call it a party game because it is one.
There's no real combos, the sheer mashing of the shield button is astounding, they break controllers near constantly, throw autism based fits and are applauded for it.

If the street fighter scene attempted to ban all supers because "It's too random". I'd call that a shit game too. Street Fighter 2 is a shit competitive game by the way.

And lets not forget the multiple times where someone has won a smash tourney, been forced to give up winnings or be blacklisted because I recall hearing this argument a lot back then "He was just having an off day he was still the better player and should have just won, the fact that they even let him in any other tournaments shows how benevolent they are". That was when Mewtwoking and some other guy accidently left items on, mewtwo and the otherguy agreed to play on, and then when other guy won, Mewtwo threw a hissy and the TO made the other guy give up his prize as "it wasn't a legitimate win"

Like what, exactly?
I'm not really sure how you could say that for 64 or Melee.
What the hell do you consider to be a good competitive game?
I have yet to see this ever happen.
Are you seriously using that autist's sperg-outs to judge the standard turnouts at tournaments?

You mean changing the set up of a card game so it is not Go Fish and comes closer to Poker? You mean basically the entire point of my original comparison?

And the newest release made them change their mind and cater to them. Emergent gameplay is wrong? Finding new ways to play is not a thing? DOTA started as a mod for Starcraft and Warcraft 3.

You mean different games play differently? You mean Counter-Strike can't be a competitive shooter because it doesn't have respawning and rocket jumps of Quake? One is a slower-paced objectives shooter and the other is a twitch arena shooter. Both are still shooters. You do not like the description that Smash is a fighting game because it doesn't have combos and life bars, so you call it a party game.

You are terrible at comparisons. This would be like banning Smash Bros. special moves, not banning items, and we don't have specials banned from either game because no they aren't "too random". Oh and if you say there are random outcomes from skills/specials well Blaz Blue has it already. In fact SF2 had a random chance of a Ryu hadouken getting stronger properties.

This doesn't come up at all on whether or not the GAME can be considered a competitive fighter. The community is atrocious, yes. The community behind DOTA and League of Legends and the likes are all atrocious. Does it invalidate their game from being competitive?
Remember when the Guilty Gear competitive scene imploded because of Marn and a few other morons?
Does that invalidate it from being a competitive fighting game or does it mean we gotta consider Guilty Gear Xrd a party game as well now?

Whatever you say or want, Smash Bros. is here to stay.

Are you trying to act dense on purpose? He was clearly talking about how people had to give up their win, not complaining about a spergout

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Defense is "I haven't seen it happen so it didn't"
Also SF2 was ass, banned character, grabs did random forced damage with no way to negate, combos did flat random damage.
Literally any other SF (well except for 1 and the movie, but those don't count as 1 is a beat um up, and movie is… well it's a movie tie in game) is good, but I was using that one because it's the only one with a well known banned character.

Hence why I excluded SF2.
also

Your comparison is also bad, because what you do in smash is closer to taking a soccer ball and deflating it, crying that someone else tried to fill it up, and then saying the deflated ball is better to play with because "it adds skill"

We have one salty motherfucker here.

Let us exclude Blaz Blue then. We don't want Taokaka to randomly throw a bowling ball to be the thing that decides whether a hit goes in or not.

You want a better comparison to between Smash Bros. and soccer? Casual smash is beach soccer, with sand being kicked around and making an irregular surface that makes the game more random, but still fun to play with friends. Competitive smash is soccer played in a carefully trimmed and leveled grass field with uniforms and shoes to remove the randomness and ensure the best team wins the game. THIS IS A PROPER COMPARISON YOU DUMB NIGGER

No it isn't.
Because you're still playing how it's intended to without butchering the core aspects in your example.
They're not removing aspects from the game's intended execution.

To make a smash comparison work, you must actively remove a large portion of the intended way to play hence, removing cards from poker, or deflating the soccer ball.

Also the bowling ball is determined by which version you do. Character you're thinking of is faust.

What other aspects? If you talking about items, the game was intended to be played with or without them, hence why an item switch even exists. Other than that there's really no other core part of the game that's cut out in competitive play.

Core aspects are called that because they are things that you cannot remove from the game. In smash they are are: 3d movement, percentage damage and launching foes offscreen for knockouts. Anyway, If you are going to talk about "butchering the core aspects" then go back up here and tackle the rest of the post, because that falls in emergent gameplay, which again you oh-so-kindly ignored because you have no way to refute what I said.

you know what really bugs me? ESPN choses MOBA over fighters

hell, ESPN chose MOBA over fucking Madden and FIFA. The one genre where you have no idea what the fuck is going on unless you already love it.

At least with Madden, FIFA, or fighters you can get the general idea without playing it, but MOBA is just the screen randomly jumping around while characters move to places doing things until shit happens, I don't see how or why sports networks has clung unto that when they know their primary audience already LOATHES seeing vidya

If theyre not significant, why are they banned? Compare it to other ultra-fast pro level game like Quake 3, where knowing where the pickups spawn and getting there faster than the enemy player is part of the skill.

Not to mention banning levels with hazards. Theres plenty of competitive games where maps are fucking filled with hazards, like Quake, all competitive MOBAs and RTSses. Once again part of the skill is to learn the map up to a point you know exactly when that hazard is going to hit and most likely where.

Right now Tourneyfags play golf where sand pits and ponds are banned because some people get their feefees hurt and call the game "unbalanced" when they hit their ball in the wrong way. Or they play Quake where the only weapon allowed is a grenade launcher and nothing else and the maps cant have jumping platforms, pits, lava, or any other hazards whatsoever or they're "rng" and "unbalanced."

items and stages.

Got it, time to go to a paintball arena and throw the beads at people because haven't they heard of emergent gameplay?
It's like fucking Smogon levels of autism

Basically you haven't refuted shit other than

Also this guy's points stand perfectly

But I'm sure you're going to say "That's an awful comparison because we butcher the core game except we don't because it's better, haven't you heard of emergent gameplay"

Yes. Fuck meleefags. Fuck them to death. They can go play Mario Party "professionally" IN HELL, WITH SATAN.

That sounds actually fun, try this instead.

You know what was emergent gameplay?
Combos you stupid nigger

What was in question was the "core part of the game". The core is what I said - 3D movement, escalating damage percentages and ring out KOs. That is not what is butchered in making smash competitive, in fact it is what stands itself out from a market that otherwise is incredibly formulaic.

Because they add randomness and unfairness to the game? And the only people who still complain about it are Holla Forumsirgins who are incredibly salty Smash is still a popular fighting game? Why don't we have de_aztec or cs_office in competitive Counter-Strike? It is literally butchering the game if you ask us.

The entire argument lies in "items an unbalanced stages are core concepts of Smash", despite the fact that you can play without the unbalanced stages or items on. The only argument you guys still have that this is a "party game".

In fact, you complain about the competitive scene of a game by pointing at things that are not used in it in the first place.
Congratulations, you achieve nothing except endlessly whining over the internet about why this game is shit even though the rest of the scene disagrees.

Entire scene seems to agree except smash players actually.
That smash is the most casual party game you could possibly have with the worst playerbase.
And it's a travesty that it's even allowed at actual tournaments because of how far and removed it is from anything resembling a competitive fighting game.
The deflated ball works perfectly as a comparison, you still kick the ball it's just deflated because "Bounces are random and make the game less good"

Also called it.

Face it your game is a massive joke, even professional bowlers don't ruin their own game in an attempt to make it more hardcore.

Smashfags everyone

Well in Smash you'll never know what items will spawn or where they'll spawn, almost completely removing any strategy of map/item control. On top of this, given the difference in movement speeds and movement options between characters then those that are just naturally faster will just be better at getting to items, skewing balance even more than it already is.
Actually, quite a few stages with stage hazards were allowed in spite of hazards (Brinstar, Mute City), since the hazards were seen as predictable and could be accounted for. However, those stages were eventually banned because of extremely stacked match-ups that were almost completely unwinnable.

Even then stages like hazards like Dreamland or randomness like Pokemon Stadium are still allowed in the tourney ruleset.
What? In what way does bad play in one game compare to grossly unbalanced elements in another game?

Now why would you just out of your way to prove that you have no idea about the game you're complaining about.

Why are you so mad?

Also I hope the irony of you being unable to draw a comparison to how banning large portions of the game out is like banning a large portion out in anything else in your blind defense of the game.
You have… wavedashing.
Edgehogging is banned, Combos don't exist, Stutter invincibility is banned. The high % damage buff isn't something you have control over, so I'm surprised they're somehow not trying to ban that as well.
So… what do you have exactly, a ton of single hits and when you hit someone off the map you can hit them again to make it more certain?

Even the creator agreed.

Complain all you want. You achieve nothing and Smash still gets mainstage in Evo.

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Every show needs someone to laugh at.

Im just laughing my ass off looking at your retarded posts trying to justify why your party game should be esports

I don't have to. It is.

Autism.
honestly competitive Pokemon has more merit as an e-sport than Smash.

which is why you just spent 2 hours defending it

Just because in quake you can play with melee only and jump around doesnt mean thats the only "core gameplay" in the game. You can rule out any weapons and maps if you're retarded enough but you cant take out melee and jump so now Quake is actually a 3d-fighter with your logic. Or you know, you're just retarded.

Plenty of competitive games have a portion of RNG to them, even Counter-Strike. Removing rng completely from the game does not make it competitive whatsoever.

Thats true, but then the randomness is the same for both, which means you only need to remove the "insta-win" items, not necessarily touch the "advantage"-items.

That is a common aspect in any competitive game. Mobility is a character advantage that can and should be utilised in zoning and stealing objectives/assets in the match. This is true for MOBAs, RTSses and even FPS online shooters. That in itself is not unbalanced.

And doesnt that just validate everyone's criticism of the tourneyfags here? The game is so grossly unbalanced from the get-go, that in order to make it even a little bit viable tourney-wise is to severely cripple the game.

Reminds me of my days in Alien versus Predator 2 clan, and the dumbass tourneys it had. No aliens, no predators, only marines, only pulse rifles, only 2 maps allowed, only 1 specific hallway in each map allowed. The "tourney" was just an exercise of glitching the fuck out of the pulse rifle by spamming click (instead of pushing it down) while side-strafing. The game was not AVP2 anymore. It was "side-strafe PulseRifle"-game. And all the AVP2 tourneyfags absolutely sucked in the game otherwise.

But isn't that something that SHOULD be preserved in-game?
Look: faster characters who can move about better are also lighter. They can be knocked out of the stage with less damage than the other heavy characters.

I know this because I loved playing with Bowser. Getting item's with him is a crapshoot, but he makes up for it with raw damage pontential on his moves and the fact that you're hard-pressed to knock him out before he reaches 150%.

Instead you lobotomize that part of the gameplay and faster characters are just that. Fast. They can jump around for no reason, and they get knocked out easier than heavy characters.

I'd also like to point out something said in the thread:

On all the games I've played in Mellee, smash and 4 this was never a problem. Among friends or even online, people grab items when they appear, but otherwise are simply beating the shit out of each other.

If you have a problem with players camping item-spawns, then you don't have a shitty mechanic. You have shitty players.

Take the quake analogy the other user was making. People don't camp the quad damage. They simply know when it's gonna spawn. The rest of the match, they run and frag, making a dash to the quad damage when it spawns.

It occurs to me that all the changes torneyfags made to the game came from one thing only: munchkinery.
It's not even about preventing munchkinery. It's about controlling it. "This kind of munchkinery is allowed. This kind of munchkinery isn't".

Take a step back, and instead of looking at the game, look at the people you're playing with.

Project M isn't bad, and it's quite fun from what I've played. But everyone I met playing that game were terrible people.

Why do people have so much vitriol towards esports? Who cares if someone makes a living playing a game you don't like? No other topic on Holla Forums reduces people to foaming retards.

Most people don't even know the full story on Leffen's visa, its not because Melee is an invalid reason to get a visa, its Leffen making a mistake in registration and getting a bad review worker. Other people got Visas to play Melee and other Esports without problem and will continue to do so.

Esports atract two things to vydia that are terrible:

The first come as secondaries (terrible by itself), or just 15 year olds who think they're hotshit because they were Silver 5 on LoL for a straight week.
The main problem begins when they outnumber legit players, and the market tries to pander to them, since they are vocal as fuck, and game studious believe this dipshits are a good representation of their market. Then they discover that this retards don't buy games.

No wait, turns out we're there already.

The second bit about money is a bit more insidious. To understand this, look at Footbal. American or European, doesn't really matter.
It's not a sport. It ceased being one several decades ago. Now it's a business. A player isn't sucessfull if he's good at the game. He's sucessfull if he's rentable.
Yes, but you can take a bad player, some healthy dose of PR&Marketing and also make him a fucking star worth millions.

On a vydia related example, you got DSP. He's a dipshit that can barely turn his computer on, yet he moves loads of money.
Do you want that applied in large scale? With corporations sponsoring retards, shutting down small tournaments/studios because they threaten their profitability?

Money is a tool that can be used for many things.
But when it comes to vydia, to fun, money is something that should always take the backsit.

That game is evil. I like it.

Thing is, unlike with SJWs, financially the teenagers also back the game, so you have success stories like LoL which are phenomenom of its own scale. The casuals are whats keeping it alive, and the weird thing about casuals playing LoL is the fact they dont really play many other games at all. But they do bring a ton of dough for LoL.

That doesn't really happen in any esports-scene. Maybe Smash tourneyfags and their circle-jerk, but with any competitive scene with actual sponsors you better deliver in huge events or you can pack your things up in the training house.

Thats a bit of an odd dilemma with "pro-gamers". Only a very, VERY small percentage of them can actually get success in it. Most "pro-players" can achieve a salary less than a cleaning lady gets, with added benefit of an apartment you share with your teammates. And careers only really last 2-3 years, 10 years at most.

So if you want to go pro in a game, you basically have to love the game up to a point you have no life outside of it, because theres no other real benefit for going pro in a game.

Items were on for a long time during melee's competitive life and it has been demonstrated that the game is better in many ways with them turned off. People all agreed that the game is better with items off and if you disagree then that's perfectly okay.

RNG is not the only reason items are banned. Items become a problem the more skilled the players are because outcome is less dependent on individual skill and more dependent on the item that dropped.

Sure it is equally random since any item can appear anywhere, but the community decided not to play that version of the game.

If item camping is not a problem with the people you play with that says nothing about its prevalence among competitive play. If a player is good enough to effectively camp the items how does that make the player shitty? It makes them good, because they're performing what is probably the optimal strategy.

...

That might be my biggest beef with all "competitive" comunities.

I'll say that I understand the point. Two players enter the match, they both want to win, so they actively do anything in their power within the rules to win.

But for me (and this is coming from someone who mostly plays single-player) the point of a game is to have fun. That's it. You "win" a game if you had fun with it. That's the win condition for me.

When I played Crash 3, I remember doing a Super Slam on top of a hole.
Yeah, I lose a life, and the game penalizes me for it. It's not the "optimal strategy".
But it was hilarious as fuck.

When I picked Bowser, I loved that move where you grab someone, jump and land with them. I loved it because I could grab someone at the stage edge and dive with him to our doom.
Not the "optimal strategy" but I had fun with it.

Take ASSFAGGOTS for instance. Sometimes you lose a match because the two russian morons on your team are afk 60% of the match. Those suck.
Sometimes you win because the two russian morons on the enemy team. Those matches suck too.
But then there's that one match where it's 5vs5, tooth and nail gritty fighting for 30 minutes. By the time the game ends, I don't even care if it blurts how a "DEFEAT" or "VICTORY". The whole match was a glorious skirmish of violence and good jolly fun brawling with other people. I feel like I "win" because I had fun.

Now, I very much understand that some people won't competitive plays, and they want the outcome to be 100% pure player skill oriented.
But it makes me kinda a sad, because from my perspective, this are players who seem misguided.
They're happy when the game tells them they're sucessfull. When the game tells them "you won". They don't feel like they won without some victory screen or some shit.

Take 4X games, any of them. There's a victory screen late-game, yeah. But over the course of the whole game, you'll have a ton of oportunities where you feel like you "won" by yourself. When you build that wonder faster than anyone else. That small scale war in the mountains that doesn't really matter for much, but you outsmarted a larger force.

I just think competitive gamers lost their ability to find their own victories.

Except they never did. Theres two communities playing Smash games. Casual and party gamers who Nintendo caters to, and the Tourneyfag scene which is pure cancer and made of autists with a lot of money to spend.

Tourney-scene does not make up for the majority of Smash players. Casual Nintendo-fans do. And they play with items on, just like the developer intended the game to be played with.

(checked)

Pretty sure the idea is to get it on the same level as Poker for the same purposes.

Please tell me that you're joking. You've obviously never played one because the skill ceiling is very high.

So let's see here,
The game oozes with fighting game elements despite not being a traditional one.

This shit is why I never bothered with Project Meme. I understand the mentality of making Brawl more like Melee since Brawl was floaty garbage, but removing ALL of the fun stages unique shit? Not ok.

Those things do not a non casual ass game make
mario party has all of those.
100% OJ has all of those.

Divekick is less casual and that's a joke meme game, because at least divekick wasn't didn't remove the jump button to make it less uniqu… I mean more standardiz… I mean less random

I can do all those in Unreal Tournament and Overwatch as well.

Fuck me user, you just proved that shooters are actually Fighting Games. Remarkable.

Unfair comparison. Divekick is hardcore as fuck, you can't just compare it to other fighting games and expect them to be as good as Divekick.

What about Dong Dong Never Die?

Dong Dong Never Heard Of It.

But from the gameplay vids I found, it looks fun.
Thanks for the recomendation.

What fucked up abomination of UT are you playing faggot?

Good job retard, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Both of you missed the point and ignored half of my argument anyway, just like you've both done the entire thread to anyone arguing with you.

Nope both of those have all the elements you listed.
I was stating that having those elements doesn't make it a "competitive game" at all.

Because all the AAA publishers are using MOBAs as their ticket into the esports scene and want them to get as much exposure as possible. All the AAA fighting games are developed and published by companies who have taken a lazies-fare approach to esports since the 90s and EA uses sports games almost exclusively as a reliable source of income, so they don't give a shit whether or not ESPN does anything with it.

What about Ehrgeiz

Fucking moron, kill yourself.

I said it once and I'll say it again.

Meleefags are the cancer killing the fighting game community. They demand the spotlight at majors and refuse to play or pick up any other games, only circlejerking their "fighting game."
Because we pandered to their stupid community, now we have two smashes at EVO and actual fighting games are side-events. Fuck these faggots.

Wrong person, that's in mario party though, if you hit jump right after getting squashed in certain mini games it lasts a lot less time

What is Brawl? What is Smash 4?

It's been 12 years since I've played Mario Party, sorry.

What is ALL cancerous Smash communities. If you disagree you're kidding yourself. Try to get a meleefag to pick up Street Fighter at a tourney and watch them squirm. I've tried.
Play other games for once or stop fucking leeching off the apparatus the FGC has put in place.

The fact that Melee is part of a genre that constantly fails to produce more games that esports people want to play means Melee will always be "the odd one" in the fighting game community, because people would rather group it to a somewhat similar though ultimately separate genre that is successful than its actual competition which sucks.

The only RNG is the dice, and the percentages for influencing it is pretty easy to determine.

It's horribly obvious in 10 where the person in last place magically gets all the best rolls for an even match, but in 1 it's pretty easy to tell that you're going to get a dice roll near a favorable spot with a 1-2 difference, and then each minigame including chance time is piss easy to manipulate.

Even the gambling games in 2 have very obvious tells

3 is the one that has gambling, not 2.

Why the fuck does anyone HAVE to play everything outside of what they come to a tourney for. That's like saying that Counter-Strike players should play Quake or UT at tournaments or vice versa.

yeah, it was 3, oh well

Smash tourneyfags are like Counter-Strike players who only play the map Dust, ban everything else but Desert Eagles and think bomb should be removed because it has too much rng involved.

Hey, you can get most people to have "for fun" bullshit tournies, like Erghize, Dong Dong, Tekken Ball, Coinflip.

Smash players hate that shit, and will throw spergouts if you even so much as imply that those are things. It's happened to me a few times

Except that CS, on paper at least, is a perfectly balanced game. I never liked Items in Smash because they gave out free wins. I'll play on practically any map but Temple and Final Destination.
But guess what? CS also has a map roster of approved competitive maps separate from the rest of them, there's still variety among them. In edition to still having a lot of other things to do that the community enjoys. (The main difference here being that the competitive aspect of the game takes of the majority of players in CS.)

Fuck them then, those were all fun tournies. The value in Smash to me comes from the variety of ways to play, not the lack thereof. Stingy ass Tourneyfags need not apply.

Hey you can play a game in a semi-competitive fashion and not have it be MLG pro bullshit like smash. Seriously of all my time in the FGC the smash players have been by in far the worst. I mean sure you get your low tier gods in other games, but in Smash it seems like autisms the name of the game.
I was running setups at a tourney once and a smash player ran up and said his TV had lag and that's why he lost, and he wanted us to switch to a something or other. He got DQ'd from his match for running off mid game.
This is not an unusual occurrence with smash people.
Honestly Smash does not need to be a tourney game, fucking play it where you can have fun and not bullshit where you ban out 50% of the game in order to "make it less random" or whatever people claim

Then why don't they just have one tiny league side tournament with every game that nobody really plays just so that everyone who is attending doesn't have any deportation problems?

Bad analogy.

When someone hosts a Counter Strike Tournament, it's a tournament where people play Counter Strike.
When you join a Counter Strike comunity, it's a comunnity that mainly discusses Counter Strike.

Fighting Tournaments however aren't only about Street Fighter or Smash.
They feature a large pool of games to pick from.
Non-smash players have games they're best at, of course. But they'll also pick up the controller and play other games knowing full well the chances of winning are slim. It's simply for fun and to play with new people, experience diferent games.

Smash players on the other hand are the reclusive shifty rats who stick to their little place, are hostile to newcomers and refuse to leave their safe-space to try something they are not confortable with.

Deny it all you want. I can google you 20 diferent videos from EVO and other tournaments showing the same thing over an over again.

normalfags really did ruin vidya.

Is all the melee hate just "Holla Forums is bad at video games"?

I would put stock in the things Super Smash Brothers players say if they had any other skill at anything else. Every "pro" Smash player I've met not only has a shitty life, poor, no education, but they suck the niggest dick at every other game they play.

Does anyone have that Webm of DSP getting bodied in SF4 and being told to kill himself?
I've seen shit like that at Pokemon TCG tournies, "His deck was rigged! He's obviously counting the cards." sucks that you had to put up with that but my experience with the Smash community has been quite the opposite experience.
Banning items is fine, having a map pool is fine, every other competitive game does this. It's not like CoD where it's such a bloated mess with such a low skill gap that 90% of the game is removed for it's competitive. They don't just ban killstreaks and a few horrible items like IEDs at CoD tournies, they ban guns, perks, etc.. I think the only character barred from Smash tournies in the history of the game would be Brawl Meta Knight, and even then you still saw him everywhere.

Certainly nothing like the board in which we are currently posting on. You basically described Holla Forums in a nutshell. I also don't believe most of this, since the community has been pretty open on my end. Leffen is always pretty good at other fightan games, it's a double edged sword.

And you missed the point anyway. No one is fucking obligated to play games they don't want to play. If you try other games at tournaments good on you, but don't force that shit onto other people.

If you can get a visa to play poker then you should be able to get one for a fighting game (not melee but still).

You'd all get just as fucked by Daigo in SF as you would by Micheal Jordan in bball

Maddox ain't perfect but but I think he explained this well

They banned Marth for a bit in the early years.
they're a bit inconsistent.
Everyone who had a counter was flat banned, then later unbanned.
Dr. But Not Normal Mario got banned for a span of a month,

It was silly as shit.

Also that's because DSP claims he's the best at fighting games constantly, he won the last major for SF2 because it used a weird PSX version that had a glitch he exploited. It was allowed because hey it's in the game.

Also seriously, at bigger tournies it only gets worse. I have no clue how people do it for EVO , you'd need to pay me far more than minimum wage to deal with what I deal with at that level.
"The TV in my hotel isn't right" - Why the fuck would I care or be able to do anything

I've seen smash players break more gamecube controllers after losing a single stock than I've seen sticks break, and I've seen salt lords. One guy broke his joystick clean off and then played with the now broken stub.
I've seen smash players collapse mid match clutching their hands from "Carpal Pains" yes all of them have carpal tunnel somehow. I've seen so many fingerless gloves and shit getting stolen constantly I thought I was at a melty tourney again.
Not to mention the constant bitching about controllers.

Also the point wasn't that they don't play, they flat out get pissed if you even suggest they sign up for a side tourney for fun.
I had to flat out DQ someone for threatening to stab me over that once. Didn't help he also had a katana in his belongings. I'm not even joking here. It was checked at the door but still what the fuck would you bring that with you

This site fucks with my phone for some reason, typing has a lot of lag and if I go too fast it starts repeating itself, no idea why

Haha, Ken was too OP for them. They also ban new DLC characters at first for reasons. Ryu, Roy, and Lucas couldn't be played last year.

What an egocentric piece of shit, I hope someone murders this cancer in his sleep one day.

Holy fuck, that's beyond autistic. What's wrong with all these mother fuckers? I don't take losing very well either, but the most I ever do is mutter something out of salt.

Hey I'm shit at fighting games, so the least I can do is help with tourneys. I do like the community for most games.
I actually really liked Arcana Heart 3, but it was not meant to be as an anime fighter in the west. Doesn't help that it's creepy as fuck too, but whatever

DSP went to song niggers and called them fucking niggers at a fighting game event and that was the end of him at fighting events because those niggers all promised they beat him to death and boy did they try.

some* how the fuck did I type song

And back to reddit with you. Fuckers propagating the meme that Holla Forums is filled with socially retarded morons need to die.
I get that it's funny and ironic to come here and go "us socially inept gamers XD" but most people on Holla Forums are not like that.

Being unwilling to partake in shit we don't like, or the fact that most of Holla Forums can talk about a game without garbling down some dev-cock does not make the whole userbase "reclusive shifty rats who stick to their little place".

Those tourney's sound awful
What country you in fam? I've never anything like this in Aus

Great now all I can imagine is some song of the south bullshit, where there was some slave spiritual thing going on and DSP just runs in there and goes "Wooooooooowww, I hate niggers"

These are the worst of the worst stories, so don't let it kill you from going to a tournament in the US.
Usually they're fine, I mean I've been doing this for just shy of 10 years and across multiple regions, I can't really say that one's particularly bad outside of smash. That's more of a recent thing though.

I was only half joking when I said that but lets look at the facts here.
Hard to believe that people that use image boards ever use community sites outside of them often.
You're in complete fucking denial if you think this is wrong. We couldn't even let the Redditors have /fph/ for hells sake. All those niggers do is hate on land whales but nope, they fled their cancer site and got rejected fast.
Not to mention different threads and generals have vastly different opinions towards other generals and tastes. A Pokemon tourneyfag called me a braindead twitch faggot for liking DMC and many people here hate all JRPGs and they are very hostile towards each other.

Basically why I come here. But you'd be lying if you thought most people here aren't introverted and hate damn near every other community on the internet outside of this site. Which I approve of since it keeps a lot of shitters out.

/fph/ was at least half a falseflag. There was also another reddit board using this site as a bunker which I can't remember the name up, but there was relatively little hostility because they could take the banter.
Sage for rampant offtopic.

Nothings wrong with not taking a game as seriously as the competitive guys. This war has been going on for a long time and I play some games with a more competitive attitude (starcraft) and other games with a more fun attitude (warcraft).

Sure there are people who play the game to win and nothing else, they chose to make it a business so they weren't looking for fun in the first place. And someone can lose passion for a game if they keep playing too seriously and always lose, there's gotta be a balance. Most people have fun playing a game and also appreciate the competitive side.

I hate to be all "Everyone is dumb but me" but you faggots are getting worse than the console war crowd. Get over the melee hate boner and realize their enjoyment doesn't affect you in the least.

But meleefags do have an effect

If that effect is "I see them on the roster at EVO and it just jingles my jangles" then I'm sorry, but the problem lies with you.

Hell, I'm waiting for the huge rant someone will write up about how people who play the game they don't or play a game they like at a higher level are subhuman and deserve the gas chambers. I know it's coming, and I can already tell they have never gone to a tournament and have only heard about melee in passing and decided to invent something to outrage about.

...

That's pretty much how meleefags see Sm4sh players.

I play Tr4sh, it's either that or Brawl. I'd play Melee or PM but I no way of doing so besides emulation and that brings a lot of input lag.
The game is a step in the right direction after Brawl but it's still casual as fuck, and horribly balanced.

That's like getting JWong to play Melee.

We know how that turned out.

Look at this nigger and laugh. Tryhard bowlers do exist, and they get super pissy if the wax pattern isn't the one they want it to be, or up to their expectations. See also, different cores.

Soften the throw and avoid being in the situation of being thrown in the first place. I don't see this being a bad thing, throws are a tool that's meant to be used. You can use it to your advantage and so can your opponent.

Also, throws aren't random as you think. A throw to Chun-Li does the same amount to Gief. The only variables that are "random" is that the throw's damage is a biased towards the person who is behind in rounds won.

The damage values aren't truly random, they're just invisible if that makes sense. This is Hyper Fighting's engine I'm talking about here, so I can't really speak for ST.

I assume you're talking about Akuma. Yeah, he was just a crazy easter egg that wasn't exactly meant for serious play. But he's only in Turbo and ST. But does this really make SF2 ass?

In O.Sagat's case he's just softbanned in Japan, but he still sees play.

Has there been any games lost to random damage fluctuation?

You roughly know how much damage a hadouken is going to do, you won't notice if it does a tiny unit more of damage - nor will you notice if it does less. Everybody hits hard in SF2, and you can die in a matter of seconds.

This is a serious question since the values being shifted are pretty minuscule.

If you get hit by a TOD Combo, generally it's good-bye game, RNG or no RNG behind the combo.

—

I'm honestly surprised that you didn't even mention invisible/randomized stun. That's a thing that turns off most new ST players.

But I disagree with you saying any other SF game is better than SF2 competitively. 3S is even worse, but it doesn't make it any less fun. Alpha 3 is pretty broke too.

oh well, but hey! don't blame smashfags, blame mister wizard for being a fat jew that take's nintendo's dick up his ass to have smash4 in along with melee.

I'm just gonna enter in almost everything but tekken and MK anyways so I've got nothing to complain about other then last year's finals being so fucking boring with elena camping and healing over and over.

Why you callin Mr Wizard a gay fat jew? He was a hero.

I would normally be against this but…

yea, no way in hell ill live in a world where an ASSFAGGOT is considered a legit sport, but a fighting game isnt.

It makes me wonder, do other anons really not diversify their tastes in fightan games beyond their preferred series? I like to attend local tourneys for pretty much anything, they're all good fun and most everyone is pretty chill regardless of what's being played. I'm not stellar at fighters, but win or lose I always do my best and have a good time. It's like when you go on the internet, Meleefags are on one side of a river and everyone else is on the other, and they're all too busy screaming at each other to realize that the water's pretty fuckin nice if they'd just bother to take a dip.

Can't we just enjoy a fucking party game?