LTV Question?

If I produce something that does not acquire additional labour (e.g. when mining for gold I discover some rare earth metals), does that product have no value according to LTV?

it wasn't going to be discovered by itself. you still committed labour by mining

If it already has a price, it's got that price. If it doesn't, it's whatever people are willing to pay. The value of something is socially determined.

It still needs to extracted. Which requires labor. You also put labor into finding it. The fact that it was an inadvertent inadvertent discovery really doesn't negate the previous effort that was put in.

Isn't that subjective?

I thought value came from labour. Also isn't price exchange value? That's a separate concept from value right?

Yes.

the labour spent in mining was the value of the gold.. would that mean the value of the gold would decrease to compensate for the value of the additional product?

well that labour also "produced" the mineral. whether it was by accident or not is irrelevant

Yes, but so is pre-capitalist trade. Socially necessary labor time only enters into mass production with competition. There are things with prices that are not values.

Price is realized value, actual value. The value generated in production is >ideal/indeterminate< value which is not known until the point of sale. If we knew it, we'd just not use markets and simply produce things.

so how much would I get paid for that extra product? would it be the same as the market/exchange value of the product despite less labour?

You all have it wrong. It is not the labour that goes into making a product that determines its value. It is the socially necessary labour time that determines its value. This means that the value of an object is how much labour goes into producing it normally in society and if your method is slower (takes more labour time than the average company does) then you do not make more money.

If it already has a price, it's that price. If it doesn't, it's whatever someone pays.


Only for mass producing competitive capitals and those caught in their circuit of trade. Outside of that, things sell at whatever price they are agreed upon by buyers and sellers.

mao killed rosa luxemburg

...

That's a good explanation of socially necessary labor time, which I always found a bit odd.

Shut up A.W. Socially necessary labor time was used in pre-capitalist societies too, it wasn't magicked into existence by capitalism.
>The value generated in production is >ideal/indeterminate< value which is not known until the point of sale.
Absolute bullshit. Prices of production apparently don't exist.

Yeah, no. >Logically< the idea of labor power and the value of labor only becomes generally determining in competitive capitals.

*cough*


Fuck you ;)

Yes. Of course. It's called small-scale or petty commodity production. It was a feature of artisans and craftsmen, who occasionally hired individuals who lacked work (merchants too), and were wedded to the market of the cities in or near their workshops.

>>Logically< the idea of labor power and the value of labor only becomes generally determining in competitive capitals.
So what? Labor-power precedes capitalism, as does capital itself. Capitalism only constituted a mode of production when capital entered the sphere of production itself – hired workers and organized production for profit. It didn't come from nothing, you idealist.


Somewhere in that shitpost is a refutation but I can't see it.

and? Petty commodity production isn't capitalism.


Historically. That's not what Marx's Capital is about, if you didn't notice. Things like generalized basic barter has never been found in the anthropological record for example, despite being logically prior to money trade. In fact money seems to appear in the actual general commodity trade immediately.

The historical appearance of capital is of no consequence to its logical theory, which capital is about.

Heck, FINCANCE capital actually historically arises long before industrial capital when in logical form is is one of the last aspects to emerge.

So, yeah, fuck you ;)