Rojava

US proxy that will be dropped when no longer needed and get btfo

it's a sad joke and rather pathetic, rather typical for anarchists

*ethno-"socialism"
ftfy

They're based af. I'm a Democratic Confederalist myself.

This is a concern though. I hate cult of personality myself, but I don't think Ocalon would use it for authoritarian purposes.

ebin meme

I would support them if they had even a snowball's chance in hell of coming out on top.

US proxies.
just mere pawns of United States geopolitical chessboard.

explained

I support Rojava, but I do think the US funding to the YPG/YPJ is worrying. Don't be shocked if after the Syrian Civil War the US decides drone Rojava for cutting into porky's profit.

this
it takes a special kind of retard at this day and age to think taking "US aid" will lead to anything but your own demise
faggots have it coming

It's nothing special to me, just another natlib state building project. But it's seemingly the only form of idpol Holla Forumsyps are ok with.

long live socialism in one desert! Long live the Stalin-Bookchin-Öcalan-Obama front!

For me something is really fucked up about left-communism when Hoxhaites (MLKP) have a better position on the syrian civil war than left-coms. Have you ever considered that opposing national liberation of oppressed nationalities is chauvinist and euro-centric?

maybe. It's also popfrontism and killing both Kurdish and Arab workers. But y'all natlibbers are in bed with the bourgeoisie anyway so I guess 400'000+ dead and over 10 million displaced proles in an imperialist proxy war don't bother you all too much.
But it's obviously the fucking leftcoms who are being the real chauvinists here because they don't buy into the nationalism of oppressed crap! And at last I see!

Nice reductionism

imperialism is the primary contradiction, bucko.
Without it capitalism in it's current form will be much weaker, and socialist revolutions will be much easier. But you're way too busy being an ultra-leftist principle wanker to make any practical decisions. That is exactly why leftcoms are a meme.

...

We'll get rid of imperialism with the revolution, not the other way around.

What is your "practical decision", beside posting here?

It's always cute to see a tankie confess his revisionism without even realising it.

Don't Ultras and Left communists have to get back to not reading and sniffing their own farts? It isn't fair for you guys to pick on the mentally disabled anyway.

Kek

Fap material

American charity organization once helped Lenin's Soviet Union.

This makes Soviet Union an American puppet state.

...

You know that if you put your opponent's arguments next to an mspaint drawing that doesn't count as refutation, right?

how do you know it wasn't made with a free paint clone?

Don't be a pedant. MS Paint drawings are a distinct independent style that have nothing to do with the tool used other than the fact that MS Paint is what everyone used to make them in the beginning and the name stuck. I don't see you coming up with a better name for them.

sorry, i thought you were criticizing that he used capitalist software.

so you're saying you are unable to extract meaning from image macros?
welcome, you're gonna have a hard time. lurk moar.

not saying the pic is any kind of good or valid argument though…

Agreed. Ocalan needs to stay out of the way, and somehow I doubt that'll be a problem. I think they'll have to make it through the civil war intact, of course, before worrying about how to maintain and extend their revolution.

The Kurds are fully aware it's a faustian bargain. It's just a matter of time. Hopefully they're stockpiling and making other preparations.

Yes, you are chauvinists.
And it's not crap. The Kurds have endured a remarkable level of oppression even by the standards of the Middle East, including suppression of their language and culture as well as localized genocide.

The simple reason they're doing anything at all is because they're not leftcoms. You're dogmatists of the worst kind, spitting on anything that doesn't meet your checklist. In case you haven't noticed, the world is a messy place and achieving something is better than maintaining theoretical purity.

In case you haven't noticed, communism is about achieving… communism, not simply "something". If your ambition is one of a socdem, don't complain when you're treated like a socdem.

And how are they going to achieve that in an agricultural backwater in the middle of a civil war? Do tell.

Of course, the Kurds have more sense than a keyboard communist, and have built something that will endure with what they have, following their own path rather than pretending that the world will bend to their wishes.

They're not, and that's exactly why they do not matter to me as a communist.

Oh, of course, the only true communists are leftcoms. How could I forget? Never have communists supported anything less than a fully communist movement. No history of that whatsoever. It's all revisionism.

their flag is trash
i wish the swastika was a neutral symbol, it's too pretty

well, if you use it to refer to the religious origin and buddhist culture in general then it is a neutral symbol in certain situations.
as long as no nazis are present who would feel reinforced by seeing it i think it can get legally used for decoration.
wouldn't put it on a flag though.

No. But they need volunteers with civilian skills more than fighters.

Oh they have:
1 — As a temporary alliance when communists thought they would be able to take over said movement.
2 — Even if (1) wasn't an option: when said movement brought the material conditions closer to those required by a communist revolution.

I don't see any of this here.

The problem with your first criteria is that leftcoms would never believe they could take anything over, because they would never support it in the first place if it wasn't explicitly communist. Even then, they wouldn't support it if it wasn't explicitly left communism. This is the dogmatism of the ultraleft. Never support anything other than yourselves.

The problem with the second criteria is that Rojava is less than three years old, and can build very little when under siege by reactionary forces, deprived, as others have said, of skilled labor and many other things besides. It has the potential to develop itself, industrialize and begin manufacturing its own goods, develop its agriculture, and so on, but that can only occur in a time of peace.

So where does the ultraleft position leave us? Never support anything other than left communism in a developed nation. People in underdeveloped nations are to be left to rot, under the heel of oppressive regimes, cursed by the original sin of not being born in the developed world.

That was altogether the entire point of my original post. Maybe you're the one with comprehension problems.

Oh, and of course: fuck anyone in the first world who isn't a part of their cult. Can't forget that one. I always found it ironic that they attacked MLs for their authoritarianism when they're even more inflexible.

i do not like their parities laws
but they are ok beisdes that

is rojava the only one current libertarian community except liberland? what about zapatistas?

>Even then, they wouldn't support it if it wasn't explicitly left communism.
Maybe I should have precised I am talking about Italian leftcom here: the "left" refers to the tradition of the left tendency of the pre-1914 Italian party that shared the views of the Bolsheviks. The Italian leftcom's theory isn't some kind of special snowflake: it's Marxism, plain and simple.

The question you need to ask yourself is: will the outcome of this war make any difference regarding the prospects of a global revolution? And if your answer is yes, how?

You haven't read much communist literature, obviously.

Wait, are you under the impression the first world isn't rotting under the heel of oppressive regimes? Or, do you think that, under capitalism, the whole world could enjoy the same quality of life than the first one; that it's an objective that could and should be pursued before talking about communist revolution?

Once again, you clearly haven't read much: the problem with MLs is their opportunist revisionism, not their "authoritarianism".

… cannot exist in a capitalist world.

How is leftcommunism not the post-leftism of Marxism? Both are completely impotent and incapable of achieving anything more then inflating the egos of those that follow them.

By teaching us valuable lessons on how to integrate communal organisation on the basis with wider cooperation, by(maybe) providing an example to point to that democratic self organisation can work at a bigger and especially economical level, by allowing leftist active there to understand how actual revolutions work, by giving us experience how to run a more democratic economy in modern times and tools, by learning how to or how not to integrate protection of nature into the system. And by maybe creating an ally for other revolutions.

And by eventually providing a save haven for leftist ideologies to persist through the coming dystopian nightmare.

And ofc its nice that a few million people might live a freer and better live than before.

A question, do leftcoms think that a system like the Zapatistas could develop into or allready is a revolutionary movement that could help world revolution? I know the typical criticism of the Zapatistas from leftcoms but is there some inherent thing that prevents them from being a revolutionary actor?

Another point to make is thaat we could look at the Zapatistas and Rojava like we understand autonomist spaces; locations to live atleast an alternative to pure late stage capitalism (most people cant imagine an alternative to capitalism so this is important), free spaces in sort that could be a basis for a movement towards world revolution.

And when Rojava will be crushed by the USA then maybe some people will be radicalized and understand that capitalist nations dont give a fuck about rights and democracy.

When did anyone claim that they do? Rojava and the US are simply using each other to promote their own interests.

Its quite unlikely that Rojava will exist in any remotly leftist way after they served their use to the USA and are face with either outright invasion or pressure to adabt and compromise all their gains over regular middle eastern cappitalism away.

smh tbh

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I'm talking about "ultra-leftist" in the sense Lenin described in "LeftComs - an infantile disorder".
If you're still too retarded to understand, I can't help you. The term and it's usage are widely known.

I'm highly skeptical of any movement backed by the U.S.

Kurdish ypj fighters make me hard as fuck.
Thats my position i want one as a waifu

This supposes that they're dependent on the support instead of taking advantage of it.

I want to marry a Kurdish Girl!

A socdem revolution with guns, according to leftcoms.
Development of the material forces of production and, especially with its commune and co-operative foundation, once its populace is more educated a communist tendency could also develop.
Is the development of the material forces of production a prerequisite for communism? Yes. Must it be done by communists? No.
A leftcom calling MLs revisionists. Funny.
Great argument.

you're implying that the YPG isn't part of an US-led imperialist front?
lmao.

I wasn't saying that Kurds weren't opressed or that there were no oppressed nations. I'm saying that *nationalism* of the oppressed is bullshit used to rally the working class behind their national bourgeoisie in war that is only emancipating the national bourgeoisie.
So they might be doing something but so were thousands of other pseudo-socialist natlib organizations before the Kurds became the left's favorite milita with women and guns and I simply can't see how the working class benefited from war and misery in any instance.
In your delusional obsession with 'getting something done' or 'doing something' you're ready to support reactionary elements and side with the bourgeoisie. And I think that we must defend communism against such nationalist opportunism and popfrontism even if that means that some left-to-capital 'socialists' call us purists or dogmatists.

why should anyone engage in a discussion with you when you don't grasp anything about left communism and yet make claims about it and try to critique it?
first of all, left communism isn't a coherent movement. Left communism describes ANY marxist tendency which emphasizes internationalism and the primacy of the working class in the revolutionary process, dismisses social democracy, trade unionism and popfrontism. If you say that according to leftcoms October 1917 was a socdem revolution then you're completeley ignoring the italian communist left and the synthesist communist left (Dauvé, Nesic). And left communism isn't a flavour of communism like proletarian anarchism. Left communists just provide answers to questions raised by the left or defend marxism from opportunistic attacks. There is no "leftcom" revolution, only a proletarian. But whatever
small scale local production is completely unable to develop the material forces, it's the reason why the development of capitalism is mostly furthered by the upper layers of the bourgeoisie and/or the state (see USSR).
Agree. But the material conditions for communism have been achieved a long time ago. Communism was already possible 100 years ago. I don't see why we need any more development of material forces.
I think that "socialist commodity production" is enough for the whole marxist left to dismiss MLs as revisionists.

You guys are allergic to anything that works. You are not even worth the time debating as you don't even exist in large numbers to waste life reading your books.

lol yeah

There's literally nothing wrong with any of the things written in this image

is not rojava libertarian municipalism tier then?