RTS thread

Stop releasing multiplayer games in early access.

It kills them wholly.

Goo was so fucking dull. Alien mechs are cool, except when there is no reason to build any different units.
Did any play Universe at War? That had some cool units.

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Nothing right now but I've been getting the want to go back and play star trek armada.

Loved that game, loved the fact you could aggressively board and commandeer enemy ships.

Loved that the borg centered around that concept.

I don't get it either. There is huge demand for fuck's sake, good C&C clone would sell like hotcakes.

Looking forward to modding tools. I doubt the game is going to be failure.

truly the best part of the game

since you could dark archon as any race

How are those C&C bundles on Amazon Ultimate Collection and 10 years? I really just wanna get Generals and Zero Hour but I can't find them anywhere.

raise the jolly roger user, I already own two copies of the damn game and im not buying a third one

fucking cds and fucking broken disc players

Age of empires III. Russia is just crazy. 3 villagers a time. I hit colonial with 20 villagers. Also the brits with virginia company is 88 wood for a villager during age up. Never fighred out the ottomans though.

It was very nicely paced that game as well.

Are you playing with the expansions or not?
if so, which do you think are the most op teams?
I personally think its Japan, iroquis, ottomen and China

Japan is superior in all aspects to the point of being unfair, Iroquis can build a ranged 1 pop unit cheaply when they've go the right shipments
Ottomen because fuck great bombards, although they are countable

Finally china when they have their city shipments
Absurdly strong walls, ranged cheap units that deal ridiculous damage and navy-wise suicide ships are fucking horrible to fight

Honorable mentions to India, Germany and Russia

Post your face when you started the Cossacks/American Conquest campaigns

fuck i meant Iroquis can build a ranged 1 pop unit with over a 1000 health cheaply

Seriously, how the fuck do you fight 1 pop units that have more health than some elephants
Not to mention they actually have good artillery unlike the rest of the natives still shit in comparison to western nations

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I play on gameranger with the orginal sometimes andwith the aisian dynasties. Fir some reason nobody ever plays the warchiefs civilizations

Japan. Shrines are crazy OP. India. Good shit. Russia. 10 percent cheaper 3 villager batches + team fencin school + fencing school = instant infantry. Britain. Cheap villagers. Chop a lot of wood in age 2 to get to 20 manors asap then build nills and plantations. If the dutch dont die in a rush, banking can get crazy coin

That can explain it

I never thought they were any special. Certainly weaker then Britain

Personal opinion. Played em once. Dont like em

Dont like ottomans either, but if they can actually micromanage well, with great bombards they can devastate whole armies and bases

Also Germany isnt that Op, but they have several good units that put them just below the races i previously mentioned

Doppelsoldniers are great if a bit slow, wagons are great if a bit expensive and Uhlans are wonderful

You wouldn't think that they're that good with no damage multipliers(?), but in terms of raw damage they excel, which makes them pretty good against anything

Combined with low cost and high speed lets them rape artillery and scout like anything

I could literally take on an Ottoman players army with just Uhlans

Should be mentioned that they suck against anything anti-cavalry but thats to be expected

Also settler wagons give them good resource income, not as good as french, but close behind

Forgot to mention, noone plays the warchief nations because They have terrible siege and shitty walls without towers and fortresses

So if they go against any other nation they get raped by cannon fire

Also should've given Portuguese a mention as well
Those fucking organ cannons rape anything that gets close, you literally have to get those anti-artillery cannons (falcions?) otherwise you're gonna get raeped

Reminder that Dawn of the Modern World is superior to Empire Earth

Does DotMW allow for map sizes exceeding 999999X9999999?

Torrenting is difficult on my university internet, some guy got in trouble once (probably was doing something stupid) and it spooked me good. Plus I live in Germany and buying it retail will get me that stupid censored version.

Hard to get games sometimes, I guess.

Yes! This game is fantastic, but imo EE beats it because its single player is like twice the size.

Universe at war was so fucking unbalanced
The robots can literally kill your entire base and army in one shot if you keep the units too close together (excluding the weakest unit)

And i dont mean "close together" like all in one group, but rather that fucking robot hack works like an endless chain lightning

Then there was the black hole… fuck that

The hierarchy was supposed to be able to counter that shit, but every time i versed them they died relatively quickly

Instead of being a rock paper scissors like game, the robots rape everyone and the hierarchy was only good against humans

But apart from that, it was leagues better than gray goo or 8bit armies

user why did you even consider it?
Also you live in fucking germany
Dont pirate there
Not ever
In fact get out of Germany
Come here to Australia
you'll be safe in Australia unless you download powerpuff girls porn

Alternatively you could pick that nation thatis ruled over by the pirate party

wasnt Chris taylor a large part of supcom?
or did he over advertise himself

They also have the rights to Total Annihilation

found it
Iceland is going back to there viking ways
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_(Iceland)
fucking over 40% of them want to be pirates

www.cnc-comm.com

They're good, they''re just too rare. Then again, when I played them, it just struck me as…meh

.>>9159646

portugese only take off late, and even then i dont find them spectacular. Can't argue with the untis thought

What the fuck, that explains every fucking thing. The endgame comes down to a big siege, not having proper walls is an invitation to hare your villagers buttraped by hussars/cossacks/uhlans.

I like to use the Dutch gambit now and then. It's simple, play dutch, with proper allies, they send you wood + food in the first age to get to 4/5 banks ASAP, in the second age you supply them with plenty of gold and build yourself up. Risky, if you get rushed, and killed, but if it pays off you will be rolling in the gold by age 3 and your allies get free gold. It's a gamble, for sure.

Armada is comfy as hell. It's such a shame it runs absolutely nowhere anymore. I've tried 7, an XP VM, Wine, but it just wont do it.

Dear Gods anons, we live in truly dark times.

Dutch aren't too bad, but they're easily countable when you know how.

Didnt they also get nerfed in the expansions?

Alternatively just go live in Eastern Europe. There you will at least get fast as fuck internet to go along with the ability to torrent anything you want.

I was about to write that. Cheap, fast internet, download what you want, nobody gives a fuck. You won't get in trouble for piracy here unless you're a company using pirated software for business and even then only if you get unlucky.

One politician even got caught using the IP of a .gov website to pirate Fallout 3. Other than being laughed at for being retarded, nothing really happened to him for it.

They should've fined him for shit taste at least.

Republic at war. I'm getting my shit pushed in by the separatists and waiting for 1.2

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Finishing DoW Soulstorm Tau campaign.

Skirmishing in CoH2 if time allows.
Waiting for next big patch to hit that removes Panzershrecks from Volkgrenadiers (OH GOD WHY SO LONG?)

I know that feel man. I really wish devs would go back to 2D.

If I had any good amount of practice, I'd try to make one, but it's a huge undertaking.

Also, I wish somebody would fucking use the WiiU gamepad in an RTS. That console is severely lacking in common sense applications of the gamepad instead of "new" and "innovative" things.

Raise the Jolly Roger and hit up TIZ. You'll be missing the FMVs though. But it's a direct download rather than torrent.

The closest thing I could find was that russian Android RTS but I'm wary of giving them money when it looks like it runs like shit. Otherwise it controls exactly how I expect a touchscreen version of C&C would.

The Masari did not have as much character as the Hierarchy or the Ipods, that bothered me. The game was fun despite being unfinished.
The hacking was ridiculous.

Why arent there any new good 2d rts games. In times of kickstarter and greenlight indie dev's there must be one who does it. I cant be the only one who prefers really good looking 2d over 3d. I mean it ages slowly or not at all when you update resolutions and it just looks fucking beatiful AND a potatoe PC can run it.

Sometimes i really think about getting into programming just to make that 1 perfect stronghold/total war mix i dream of. How long did notch take again to program minecraft?

Nowadays 2d is harder to make than 3d except le retro pixel games…

Why would anyone make RTS for mobile?

Is it though? Most of western devs used 3D renders to make sprites for their games. I think it's harder to make good quality 3D models. Drawing real sprites is more challenging, however.

Because sometimes I want to play a decent strategy game on the go, and my phone fits in my pocket while my laptop does not. It works shockingly well, too, aside from the game looking like ass.

So, is there any way to play Red Alert 3 online via Origin? Also, looking for someone to play RA3 with. Mostly campaign, but can go for multiplayer.

Isn't that the only way to play online? I thought you were forced to use Origin.

I'm playing the clonewars total overhaul mod of empire at war. it's bretty good.

Well, something is wrong then. Whenever I launch the game and try to enter MP using my Origin ID and password it won't let me.

And Empire Earth II beats both of them.

Because they used GameSpy servers and GameSpy is dead now. RA3 is available on Steam after all.

Though I think it's possible to play online, just Google how to.

Actually, take a look at this guide: steamcommunity.com/app/17480/discussions/0/617320168212866353/

Republic at War?

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you know the scanner walker can remove debuffs right?

I've played a bit DoW: Dark Crusade again recently. I just can't get enough of playing as the Imperial Guard.

I've also got an urge to play through Warcraft 2. I've only done so twice (once for each faction) and never beat the expansion campaign. Problem is that my current laptop doesn't have a CD/DVD drive, and apparently you can't install WC2 from battle.net. Guess I'll just look for a torrent or try to install it via my ancient desktop cogitator if the Machine Spirit favours me.

Metal Fatigue
I got the graphics to stop glitching, now I just need to get the sound working.

Any help is appreciated.

If you are talking about Gooks and strategy in general then they actually suck big time at strategy. Only really being good at clicking autistically fast and memorizing build orders like a machine rather than a thinking creature.

tl;dr it's cause Gooks don't have souls.

Republic at war and the other one.
I like being able to control every unit individually shits cash.

Can you download an iso and mount it?

What is Metal Fatigue? Never heard of it.

Clicking fast is not strategy.

there is still strategy at play. and it does not take a back seat. the strategy is just the easier part of the game

Foreigners suck because they have this loser mentality^

These are the guys who ragequit Age of Empires II when you attack them at the 35min mark crying about getting "rushed"

those are foriegners? i always thought those were people who were more interested in city builders and winning with some unstoppable late game army that requires them to have not been diddled with for 6 hours

This is why RTS games are better without basebuilding.

the best is when you "cheese" down these juggernaut armies by gasp being better at micromanagement, and then they leave because itll take another hour for them to rebuild since they only have a few unit production buildings

Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance Forever.
Still.
I've tried other RTS games but they just don't do it like FAF does. And with this industry, nothing else like it will be made for at least another decade or two.
Oh well. At least it exists.

It's not an RTS if you can't build a comfy base. Then its RTT. The same goes for those pseudo-bases, where you just buy addons to a static building.

i dont know about that, to me its just dumbing it down. but a good game can be designed with simpler mechanics.

i dont think the difference between rts and rtt is base building, is it?

No, not entirely, but the addition of base building (and especially walls) largely changes how a game functions.

When you lock production speed and unit choices behind building structures then it becomes a strategic choice to build more structures, build a variety of structures or tech up. It also adds the tactical choice of positioning your buildings, either to maximize efficiency or protection.

And that's not considering how your base is built and units produced.

There's very rarely a choice between teching up or building more units, if you go for booming strategies people catch on and will rush you. I'm not a huge fan of "tech race" RTS games like Rise of Nations and Age of Empires, anyways.

This counts as a RTS, right?

I'd recommend watching some SupCom 1v1 games. The difference between teching and massing tends to become pretty noticeable and can lead to major shifts in who has the advantage.

The problem with said tech-race games is they usually only field one or two unit types, so teching up makes their entire army substantially stronger. If in Age of Empires you had to have a balanced army teching up wouldn't be as significant, because upgrading your horses would still leave your archers and infantry at the same level as your opponent.

SupCom has a substantially easier economy to manage than most RTS games.

Like what, C&C? Dawn of War? Rise of Nations? Warlords Battlecry?

It has an easier economy to manage than Age of Empires and Starcraft.

I would say it's easier than Rise of Nations to deal with, don't know enough about Warlords Battlecry.

I think the thing that turns me off from playing Age of Empires more is the fact that the economy is just so insane to deal with and requires fast micromanagement plus constant split attention and I always just want to boom but never can.

About to play some Offworld Trading Company, since it's "officially" released today.

I only play RTS for the campaign. Don't know how common that mentality is though.

I don't like most RTS campaigns. They play too differently from the skirmish mode.

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

Generals, the release sale for 8-bit Armies ends in 12 hours. Is the music worth buying the game for?

As near as I can tell, multiplayer focus is usually secondary for people posting on Holla Forums.

b8

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bet that if sc2s custom maps lived up to warcraft 3 wed all be having fun game nights. fuckin ultralisk tag or tassadar party.

Me too, RTS multiplayer has never appealed to my personal taste (unless it's co-op). Which is why I like Starcraft 2. Its campaign is fun and the story is acceptable.

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What's wrong with any of that?
It's kind of like saying

I need to make Zero Hour run on Windows 7, I managed to get Vanilla generals working.
I don't want to reinstall it for the fourth Goddamn time.

What problem are you having?
Google not helping?
Reminds me I need to reinstall it so I can play Shockwave.

Fug are you smoking fam, it works fine on Win7, even 10.

are you sure you're running windows 7?
Did you install it off a cd?
How is it not working?
Is it quitting when you get into it or what?
We need to know these things if you want our help

I tried replaying Battle Realms for a bit after the last time I saw an RTS thread. Damn if it isn't clunky as fuck though.

Yeah the units have a sort of stickyness to them that makes it hard for them to run from fights. Still a stellar campaign.

Critical error thing.
4 pages of google solutions didn't work (they were mostly the .ini fix, patches and cracks). Updating drivers does nothing.

Seems to work for me, but I'm using a pirated version after my CD player broke.

What version are you using?
A pirated one or one from CD

Also which pirated version if you using one?

Also are you adding any patches and/or cracks after installing it?

Are you running it in compatibility mode: Windows XP service pack 3 and have you tried administrator mode

Yarr matey!

Deviance version. 1.04 patch and crack.
Yes for compatibility mode and admin mode.

I am really frustrated, because I managed to run the same version on Win 8.1 some time ago,

Did ya try reinstalling it with compa/admin for the installer?

Didn't think about that.
Will try to do that after work.

EB2 and I'm having a ton of fun.
It's pretty much a brand new game, or rather the Rome 2 that we never got.

My only issue is that keeping the settlements that you conquer under control is a pain in the ass if you don't exterminate the population.
Oh and "IMPERIUM RELINQUISHED". How do I force those bastards to get it?

On the other hand, I'm really pleased by the fact that it has the best sieges. There is actually a reason to surround cities and attack from all sides.

I've been meaning to check out EB2 for a while now, looks pretty cool.

Playing Medieval 2 stainless steel as the Byzantines. Removing Kebab and Cucklic Larpsaders from my Eastern border. And building up a force to take Rome in Southern Italy while fucking with Sicillians.

Shit's gone bad now due to a Bulgarian uprising and I've had to scrap together a force to suppress slavshits.

Is the Rome version or Medieval 2 version better?

I only played the Med2 version, so I wouldn't know.
I can definitely tell you that it plays nothing like either Med2 or Rome1. At all.
Simply put, it's much slower and you really need good generals to win. There's a lot more to it, but you should honestly try it yourself to get a better idea.

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One more thing: the game tends to crash from time to time on the campaign map if you have shadows enabled.
At least that's my experience, and I've gone for over 6 hours without a single crash with no shadows, but at least two or three per session with.

Don't ask me how this works and save often.
Protip: press ctrl + S.

I'd also be interested in a comparison between the two.

There are some pretty decent part maps but nobody bothers playing them. Somebody made Raynor Party back in WoL and yet it was forgotten quickly because Arcade is mostly filled with competitive morons who stick to ASSFAGGOTS and tug of war unit spam wars.

There are some pretty decent part maps but nobody bothers playing them. Somebody made Raynor Party back in WoL and yet it was forgotten quickly because Arcade is mostly filled with competitive morons who stick to ASSFAGGOTS and tug of war unit spam wars.

Fuck, I should get back to my Bosporos campaign.

Fuck, I should get back to my Bosporos campaign

Shit I should really beat the Warcraft II campaigns, even my dad finished the human side

If there's a hell, everyone responsible for what's happened to the Warcraft franchise deserves to end up there

Consider installing it in a folder on your primary drive instead of in the program files folders.

i.e.
instead of C:\Program Files\Whatever
Try C:\Whatever
or C:\Games\Whatever

Has fixed issues for me before multiple times

I blame Wow, but to be fair, i think it started somewhere during warcraft 3
Maybe the dlc campaigns?

I know most of you autists are going to be triggered by this games 'pixel' art style, or the fact that it's voxels not pixels, but I am enjoying this game. For 15$ it's pretty great. Been hammering noobs. Soundtrack is by Klepacki. Campaign is kinda cool with the loadout system, but admittedly disappointing how it's just basically skirmish scenarios. Some people might like that, I didn't mind, but it gets repetitive.

Multiplayer is fun but too easy since I am destroying everyone.

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Is there a decent game engine for shitting out a homemade and slightly offensive RTS and farming those controversy bucks? I've got an idea for a good one about ISIS vs Russia, riddled with mildly offensive humor on both ends

I think we've covered it enough in the previous thread and concluded that it was shallow and new low for ex-westwood designers.

Replaying Warzone 2100.
Can't get enough of hovercraft artillery

Holy shit that sounds awesome. And unstable

Worked in the game.
It's like those GLA's buggies. Fast movement, devastating blow

The sage?

The genre is fundamentally this way. Just because you and your friend played your private games slowly doesn't mean you were playing them right. You played it wrong.

Play turn based if you don't want a real time element. Of course it's about how fast you are. It always will be.

Netstorm was kind of different but was still about speed.

RTS games without building during the fight like Total War are good and not gooky, although I only like the Shogun ones.

I don't know if that's entirely true user. I mean, games like SupCom and Dawn of War were definitely on the slower side.

That's pretty great.

Like when Vin Diesel came out as a D&D guy who did sessions after movie screenings.

Hell yeah, Firestorm Over Kronus makes the Guard into a combined arms machine too, setting up ambushes with Stormtroopers is a blast. The Apocalypse mod is super fun as well.

I bought ashes of the singularity. It's average, but it could so easily be great.

Well some games need an expansion before they're truly great. Just look at SupCom and Starcraft.

SupCom requires good reaction times for air forces. It's not Gookclicker fast, but it's definitely there.

Still its largely about having your forces in position to move/be available rather than micro-management that comes with gookclickers.

Let's hope so. It's very bare bones at the moment, and it's just not amazingly fun yet, but I am willing to give it time.

There's some RTS-centric gamedev tool but it seems underused and not familiar with it's EULA:
store.steampowered.com/app/327490/

Also there's Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2 and SAGE if you want some extensive modding, although Blizz are pretty squeamish with political incorrectness and while you can distribute WC3 maps everywhere SC2 works only with arcade that is controlled by Blizz.

It's neither pixels nor voxels, it's your regular polygons with flat colour textures.

Dawn of war was not on the slower side

Yeah I was probably wrong with that statement. I think I meant 'easier to manage', since units come in squads that can be auto-reinforced, resource management is a lot easier etc.

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Who's the third party in the original?

is it jesus?
is jesus getting cucked?

das rite

That's no god of mine. I will now worship Kek, Kratos and Khorne.
K
K
K

I think I have a fitting deity just for you.

I see…

If he was getting cucked then be would also be consenting

all bad gods imho
tep

I'll agree with you, but only because I haven't seen anybody put any effort into a pun in years.

So is AGDG making an RTS of any sort at all? Just curious.

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im a huge faggot for story in my RTS. It doesnt even have to be cinematic, even a big wall of text at the end of each mission is enough for me.
i just want to know what is that big spooky race.

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An user there is remaking LEGO Rock Raiders.

R-Really?
I hope he'll fix the shitty pathfinding

In unity, right? Did he ever post any screens or anything? I've seen you or someone else mention him a couple of times, but you never linked to him.

Yes, the Unity one. I remember some models and a video of what I think was a building animation in-game, but I can't find him in the current AGDG, so no link.

Not sure about pathfinding but user's remaking it in Unity. Apparently LEGO had no objections or something so he's sticking to original as close as possible. I'm sure he'll update pathfinding and fix the exploits and bugs, though.

Also he's not alone, there's another guy working on his own RTS but it will take a while because he's coding it from scratch using libraries so it will take a while. I don't even know what he wants his RTS to be like.

Finally there's that dwarfguy all the frequent RTS thread visitors should recognize, but haven't heard of him for a while.

He was in a thread maybe a week ago? I think? Posted about his faction directions.

Mein Führer, diesen Dreiplen!

How? I thought Sierra owned it.

Only generals who hold the offices of Praetor and upwards can hold imperium.
twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?666676-A-Guide-To-Roman-Offices

Speaking of Lego and building shit
I cant seem to remember an RTS that i played several years ago
it allowed you to build your own units units sort of like lego
Sort of like a more complicated Impossible creatures

I haven't played it since i was a kid

(checked)
What sort of units?
If it had early 3D graphics and doomy gloomy visuals it was either Earth 2150 or Warzone 2100.

pretty sure it was early 3d
downloading that stuff now

Three factions, one is czarist Russia with tanks, another is America with mechas and third is space feminist with hover vehicles. You can pic vehicle armor, weapons (multiple if chasis supports) and shields. There is an underground layer. Campaign involves getting off Earth that is about to become hell due to nearing sun.

No conventional factions, in campaign you eventually get to scavenge and reuse almost all enemy tech and in melees you can research everything in game. You can pick a single weapon, chasis and hull. Campaign involves scavenging for tech and fighting off new factions once in a while, eventually you discover the old system that was responsible for world getting nuked.

Not exactly what I'm looking for i think
I'm pretty sure you could make the units outside gameplay

On that note, who here like the hero customisation for LotR:BfMEII

So, what was the game you're thinking of like anyways?

Anyone /Rise of the Reds here?

Is it any good?

It's decent. I think Arumba did a series on it while it was in EA, try looking for it.

tbh I prefer if my age ups actually upgrade my units. Otherwise it feels like it was a complete waste of resources.

Anyone know what Original War plays like?

So that's how it works.
I've been trying to find some information at the TWC, but couldn't find anything.

Thanks a lot, mate.

Seems like Battlefleet Gothic Armada actually fucking deliver.

Hopefully Cossacks 3 is good too.

Classic RTT, you are given a set of soldiers who can be trained into different classes, and vehicles have to be manned in order to run.

You can also train apemen as extra hands and shit.

Fun but very, very hard game.

A solid campaign adds a ton of personality and memorability to a game, which, along with the appeal of a structured story mode, go a long way towards hooking new or casual players and getting them invested, maybe enough to try PvP when they wouldn't usually. It's also a big plus for people like me who grew up playing RTS with strong campaigns. I play RTS without them now, but it takes a really good one to hold me, and I always perk up when I hear of one with a campaign focus (or, I would, if those were made anymore).

Probably 30-40% of people who'd buy an RTS, maybe more. Most casual buyers only ever do single-player, and having a good campaign on top of random map is doubling the SP appeal.

W3's servers are still up, faggot. People could already do that with the OG custom map RTS, but no one does.

That map is hard for a little bit then becomes easy. Once you've got enough turrets and resources that a single big dinosaur isn't a threat, the difficulty is kind of over.

Sucks because its a fun map, but its not worth replaying.

Also I agree 100% with everything you say about campaigns.

Yeah, I was a bit sad when I found that out, given how much trouble I had with it when I was younger. Still felt good to get a full feel for the map and beat it on max difficulty.

I remember some survival games (especially some troll island one) and a ton of TDs I'd like to play again, as well as this one Europe vs. zombies map I fucking loved the two times I played it, though zombies overran a couple of human players and wound up with a game-long advantage both times.

Also various versions of a game where most players were regular people while a few others were factions like God&Satan, mafia/cops, etc., but those always ended up retarded clusterfucks.

I am just realizing now that most of the Warcraft 3 survival maps (like trolls tribes) were better than most early access games.

Which RTS has the best artillery anons?

SupCom without question.

Haven't played SupCom so I wouldn't know.
Warzone 2100 has good array of artillery.

Especially the return fire artillery, or whatever it was called. Good shit for taking out other artilleries

I've barely played SC: FA, but it seems pretty fucking gr8, m8, you should look into it. Apparently it's also got an active community balancing and updating it.

Ground Control

bump

The RTS maker is shit, user.

I figured. I don't expect it to be updated frequently either with those tiny sales. It still seems to be the only RTS-centered tool out there, which means it should please some folks, I mean, not everyone is willing to make shit from scratch on Unreal or Unity, and Glest and other opensource engines are even worse.

Try the Demo and see for yourself. It's very rigid, it's literally like you're just modding a basegame and can't actually make anything different than a copy-paste C&C game. Sure there's a lot of options for making units and stuff, but it feels like you're just using a WC3 style editor without needing a base game.

step aside plebians

Anyone here play AWLR on WC3?

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Try using Cybran Support Commanders as mobile ground AA sometime. Takes a little eternity to get one built and upgraded, but their EMP system also works for their SAM launcher. If you somehow also manage to get UEF Support Commanders with their crazy shields you can build a small platoon that is pretty much unbeatable without nukes.

I was wondering if I should keep Warzone 2100 installed or if I should transition to learning FAF, Tech Annihilation and Balanced Annihilation.

I've had the original disc of that game for about a decade now.
I played very little of it though, since I was actually scared of it. I do remember the graphics at least being very dark.

Of Warzone 2100.

I didn't even pay attention.

There's spring rts engine, embed related. Thing is it's mostly good for TA / SupCom clones and your plan sounds like it would be less vehicles and more zoomed in.

I have the original disc too. I just suck ass at the game and turtle too much. It's a nice disc set though.

How is AoE2 HD?

Campaigns were fun and we wuz kangz but what about the multi?

Buggy on release (people would drop, fail to connect, etc), I think its better now, but I'd still check recent reviews.

They fucked up the resource icons
The guy who thought up that the Meat Icon should be changed to grain should be lined up and shot
fucking vegetarians raping my childhood

I signed up for the Cossacks 3 beta. Hope I get in.

Why

At least with the Steam workshop you get fixes for this kind of shit.

I'm a little disappointed. Is there any good World War 1 era RTS? I just want to pound someone to rubble with artillery.

Honestly? No. Also what did you find disappointing about Red Dragon?

I was expecting more of a TW-esque battle where you have a certain amount of units and you put them onto the field and that's it. But it's more like Tom Clancy's Endwar.

I always thought that the pacing of the game was quite fucked and that AI was absurdly broken read cheating that meant the single player part was fucked?

...

I got a theory that I'd like to share with you, /rtsg/
I think the RTS genre has stagnated and\or often fails because of it's control scheme. It's ancient, underdeveloped and many of their design decisions do not make much sense for the kind of game an RTS is expected to be.
I'll start with a single but potentially controversial example.

In Starcraft, you can build Barracks and queue up to 5 Marines inside, consting you 50 Minerals each for a total of 250 consumed. This is suboptimal, as you are still just producing one at a time, so most players just queue 1, go manage everything else and check up when it's near completition to queue another Marine. Ence the APM being important for the game.
However, what the game sees is that a single marine is being produced at a regular interval in that building, and that's it. Assuming they take 30 seconds to train, doing things the gook way, you get 10 Marines after 3 minutes.

Now let's consider Auto-Queue, a system that is present in some RTS games that enables you to order a unit or a series of units, turn Auto-Queue on and it will repeat your order after the first is done. This essentially solves the same problem with "queueing multiple units takes too many resources for no good reason", but it's best aspect is that you don't have to check back on your barracks every 30 seconds to queue a new Marine.
And what does the game see in that case? A single marine being produced at a regular interval in that building. Same as manually queueing, giving you 10 Marines after 3 minutes as well.

This is a very simple example of an element added in other games that severely changes how the game plays out and I'd say IMO, it makes it better.
It's however not perfect, since it can mean wasting resources on "too many units" if you aren't carefull, leading once again to micromanaging your base. However I believe it would be possible to improve such system and make it work better.

In fighting games, one of the most basic concepts is to try and keep a minimum amount of things in your mind while overloading your oponent with as much details as possible to slow his reaction time. This is the actual reason for varying your attacks from high, mid and low, for instance. A good part of being good in a fighting game is the ability to reduce your own "mental queue" by picking a strategy that works with some variants for different situations and stick with it.

This often means that some characters will be overlooked or possibly just some moves they have because they are considered too niche. And niche for fighting games can be fun but it's unreliable, leading to most players ending up ignoring that part of the game in favour of the simpler and reliable moves that do work, because they have to react fast and reaction does beat strategy in fighting games. The best move or plan won't save you if your oponent can pull his first (usually)

What this means for an RTS is that often you'll have many different buildings and strategies available to you in theory, but not in practice. If you make too many different types of units, you'll have way too many to micromanage, especially if they have Active Skills and no-autocast. And this leads to players ignoring part of the game and focusing on a few units that will win the game for them.

Specifically, for Starcraft again, the Protoss Aerial units are seen by most players as superfluous. They are kinda neat but they don't give you victory any faster and often end up acting like resource sinks that could be used for something else. Why build another Carrier when you can make more Zealots instead? The same goes for Dark Templars and especially Archons, that although have some neat and usefull abilities, the resources required to build them combined with the micro involved in them makes them simply too impractical. A strategy isn't considered valid simply because you can't have enough APM to realize it.

An interesting concept would be to automate as much of the simple decisions you can make as possible, freeing up time for the small decisions that actually matter and have a larger impact. And this automation would have to happen in many different levels, for many different things.
This isn't so much about lowering the skill ceiling but rather have the game be as smart as you and capable of understanding more complex orders than what we are used to.

Couldn't you just have something like Cossacks, which lets you quickly queue hundreds of units, even of different types, from a single building, and just set it so that it only takes resources from you as each individual units is being trained?

So, say there would be Resource spending paradigms that you could set up:
They would intelligently distribute resources to be as efficient as possible.

Sounds good, but in practice you're dumbing the game down. To find a balance you'd have to examine what makes the healthy, intelligent, chess-like part of RTS competition, and what makes the robotic gookclick part.

Going with the Chess analogy, you could say that the intelligent part is figuring out the enemy strategy and then responding with a special unit roster or tactic. However that would strip a game like SC of so much gameplay that it would effectively come down to scouting, clicking a button and then microing your army that got autoproduced.

Once you automate combat micro, which is arguably just as mindless as base micro, you end up with even less gameplay. You'd probably have to build in new strategic elements at this point not to bore the players to death.

And you'd end up with chess, the perfect strategy game.

That's when you add new gameplay elements that affects the combat, like terrain, both types and topography. Total War and Men of War are good examples I think.
As for scouting part it should not be as simple as fog-of-war too, after all the information warfare is one of most important aspects of war. I think SupCom had something with radars, stealth (to radar) units and other stuff.

I meant something actually even better than that. Such system allows you to produce large amounts of troops but takes away some control over it, while requiring extra effort on your part.

Let's say you have a game with Melee Units (MU) and Ranged Units (RU), and you want a strategy involving 40MU and 20RU.
Manually queiuing them is not even an option, but while you can queue 2MU and 1RU and leave it in auto-production to ensure the proper ratio, what if you suddendly lose a lot of MU?
In long terms, your army will end up with tons of RU that you don't want, requiring you to change the production strictly for MU for a while to quell the numbers, which forces you to first check the current number of MU and RU on the field before deciding what to produce.

What if instead, you specifically said exactly how many units of each you want and they are auto-queued in any idle building that can make them?
If you specifically said "I want 40MU and 20RU", the moment you lose 5MU to an artillery strike, your barracks in your base would start churning out another 5MU as replacement, leaving you entirely focused on the battle, while ensuring your strategy suffers no interruptions.

Even better, if you could define Squads based on this.
You'd define a squad with exactly which units you want in it and the game would try to fill it as possible, so you'd prepare a squad for speed with fast units to patrol your borders, another with less units for scouting, an invasion squad with large amounts of troops and a siege squad with some siege machines and troops to defend it.

The advantage here is that all the information is stored in the squad, from unit composition to formations. To replenish the squad, you'd only have to move it back to base and see it slowly get new recruits with the right weapons and armor. You'd also be able to issue commands to the squad, having all the troops working to achieve them together. Like AltClicking in Rise of Nations, that made your army do an attackmove focused on protecting the siege units.

I realize this is actually what KOHAN 2 tried to do, but I feel that game failed for how small the armies were and how little variety there really was on unit composition, not to mention how the economy was as basic as it can get. I really expected more from that.

Yeah, it was started in 3 for sure, but WoW really dug the last several feet of the grave, put all the nails in the coffin and buried it.

The whole point of removing those elements is that not only are they not really fun, they stiffle progress and actual good elements that can't be added to the game.
Once you "solve" that problem with some smart automation, you are free to include many different elements to the game, like supply lines between bases and armies, proper diplomacy and neutral camps, or resources that work in wildly different ways.

It's like living in a small village and one day getting a car. It's not that suddendly going for a walk around the village loses it's charm because you do it so fast, but rather that you can now go to many new and different places.

SupCom had a radar that you could place down with a very large radius. Units that were caught in that radius but still outside of your fog-of-war would show up in the map as an icon telling you if it's land, naval or aerial but not specifically what unit it is.
Some units were immune to radar and could come close to an enemy base without being caught before eye contact is made.

Not quite. The icon will tell you if the unit is flying, on land, or above or below the water. So an amphibious tank that's on top of the water would show up as a boat, and once it moves onto land it'll show as a land unit. Landed air units will show up as land units, etc. Buildings will just show up as boxes, and a very common tactic is to surround a T1 Point Defense turret with wall sections, as that'll block the shots of most T1 units from hitting the turret. So if you want to bluff your opponent and save some money, you can just build a solid 3x3 block of wall sections, as that will show up on radar exactly the same as a T1 PD surrounded by walls.

And there was that one boat that could walk on land…

Yup, the Cybran Salem. Additionally, all submarines can surface and pretend to be ships, and the Seraphim have destroyers that can pretend to be submarines.

sage

Was the salem actually any good?
i could understand it being successful on island maps, but on land its damn slow

Also why do boats have ridiculously long build times in supcom?

kill yourself

Company of Heroes 1
shits long as fug

The Salem is best T2 destroyer in the game. Lowest health but the highest combined DPS between the torpedoes and the gun, tied for the best anti-torpedo weaponry with the Exodus, it has the best anti-air weaponry in the destroyer class, and has great projectile characteristics for both shore bombardment and ship-to-ship fighting. It walks on land not because it's terrible and needs help, but because the Siren (T2 Cybran Cruiser) has no long-range tactical missiles and thus cannot destroy targets very far in-land, so the Salems have to pick up the slack and walk closer to the opponent's buildings.

In comparsion, the Aeon Exodus has better raw stats, but since their gun's projectile speed is very slow, even very simple micro will make a significant portion of their shots miss. The Exodus is only better than the Salem if neither you or your opponent are moving your ships at all. The UEF Valiant has lower-ranged direct-fire guns, incredibly shit torpedoes and torpedo defense, and terrible anti-air weaponry. The Salem comes out on top in a 1v1 fight every time, even with the HP disadvantage. The Seraphim Uashavoh has lower-ranged direct-fire guns which do not have a projectile arc, and thus cannot shoot over terrain to bombard buildings, and its torpedo defense is only half as effective as the Salem's. The Salem, overall, is either the best-in-class or above-average at any role you would use a destroyer for, whereas other destroyers have various weaknesses. That it can walk on land and turn into a mobile artillery piece is a small bonus, not the defining characteristic of the unit.

Boats have ridiculously long build times in Supcom because they're basically the equivalent of a land unit one tier higher. Compare the stats of the Rhino (T2 Cybran Heavy Tank) and the Trident (T1 Cybran Frigate): faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=URL0202,URS0103
They have very similar values for HP, DPS, Mass/Energy/Time Cost, even Range. The Trident is comparable to a Rhino that floats. And, of course, higher tier units take longer to build.

Worth mentioning, the significant portion of Exodus shots that will miss requires your opponent to be microing or in some other way moving to avoid the shots.

Yup. But, even as economy and strategy focused as Supcom is, you should still be microing your units when they're engaging the enemy. It's just that Supcom's micro is mostly more along the lines of "move these dozen Tridents forward to tank for the Salems and clog up the enemy" rather than "Blink this single wounded Stalker behind the other Stalkers so the attack-move AI shoots the healthy ones first".

How useful are aeon mobile shield generators in naval battles?

I normally play aeon, but i generally never build navy because Air is much more useful
However From what i see, cheap mobile shield generators can make a major difference at least during tier 2

Is Sega going to announce Dawn of War 3?

Never Ever
Beside even if they do, they pull another dawn of war 2 rather than 1 which is no fun

They are definitely useful in the T2 stage, but I'm pretty sure you have to micro them closer to your boats for them to do anything. I mostly play Cybran, so I'm not sure, but I think the default right-click formations space your boats out too much for the shield to cover them.

The Aeon navy is relatively bad, but you still shouldn't completely ignore it unless you've got a teammate willing to cover you; an uncontested sea is an easy win for any race. Just remember to supplement your navy with hovering land units like Blazes and Asylums, and maybe some torpedo bombers as well.

Why not user?
I can pretty much defend myself with a few czars and coastal defenses.
I'm 90% sure my air is more capable of defending my coasts than Naval ships are

This seems like a very… late game strategy, user.

Generally i only play large naval maps, so by the time they've sent boats to me i've already scouted out they're base, what they're building and how to counter it
although to be fair, i have sometimes built experimental battleships which are cheap and build quickly

Excuse me, what? Any decent player can get enough T2 ships to overwhelm you before you get anywhere near building a single experimental, let alone more than one. The only coastal defense that can match the range of T2 ships is T2 Static Artillery, and you'll need a hell of a lot of it. Naval units are quite capable of shooting down equivalent resources in air units of their tier; torpedo bombers are more of a supplemental unit than something you can really depend heavily on, and gunships are quite fragile compared to the amount of AA DPS cruisers put out.

Are you playing against the AI?

I'm mostly playing against AI
there aren't enough people around here to play a LAN party
**truly being australian is suffering

Where at?
Me and my roommate occasionally play
I'm twenty minutes from Cairns

Playing Total War Attila

Lots of fun for me and some of my friends, I've got almost 900 hours on it.

Currently maintaining my tight grip of Western, Central, and Southern Europe (minus Britannia and Iberia) as the Franks and am mopping up what's left of the late Attila's Huns.

I'm in a completely different state…

Such is life in the biggest country with the smallest population.

I might also start a Charlemagne campaign in AoC once I'm done, that or I'll try some historical playthroughs with another campaign.

I'm also currently in a multiplayer co-op campaign as both Gothic factions, each in our respective, historical provinces to start.

NO U.

Go back 2 >>>/tumblr/

sage

for some reason i keep thinking Age of Conan

Not quite RTS per-se since it's a custom campaign focusing on single player character progression (I assume), but this brought a smile to my face.
Shiggy diggy nice

First of all, never make a multiplayer game that is early access.

Second of all, ded genre.

First of all, never make a multiplayer game that is early access.

Second of all, ded genre.

No sir, I prefer historical or semi-historical RTS

I've always liked Total War since a kid so it's been difficult sifting through the shit Creative Assembly has produced for whatever gold is inside.

The problem with that game isn't so much the genre itself, but rather how bland the whole game is.
Both factions are very similar and with no personality, the units and the game incredibly basic as is the economy.

I saw that there's some neat tactics according to the type of armor and weapons a unit has, but it doesn't seem to be that deep not to mention it has none of the charm of previous RTS games.
If players wanted large scale conflicts, they could just pick Planetary Extermination or whatever that game was called.

They just did everything an RTS has to have but with little to no changes to the formula, nothing new, nothing interesting. Just a safe bet that they hoped everyone would enjoy because it's what we have all being playing till now…

Meanwhile, a decade old RTS still has a peak of 500 concurrent players on Steam.

Gud jorb, Brad Wardell.

fuck i'm going to find a download link right now

During some recently-uploaded game I watched, the most interesting player in a FFA DCed and he took the opportunity to warn people not to buy AoE2 HD in its current state, as it was still in dire need of patching and the devs had officially abandoned it to work on AoM HD.

So it sounds like you're better off with the originals on Voobly with the bittervets unless you feel like having a player DC every other match.

legitimately triggered

Aaand you got disproved. Besides, let's stay optimistic about the prospects:
Muh pre-alpha footage. Also, now they look more like miniatures.
Read that as "simplified command panel".

Oh god, there's going to be automatic unit spawns instead of actual RTS. I mean, maybe you get to choose which unit type spawns and maybe where they route to, but its still going to be a moba.

Friendly reminder that Tales of Valor also had a map inspired by DOTA. Barely anyone played it, because people found Operation Stonewall more fun.

Anyone familiar with this?

I played it in my teens and enjoyed it, though my critical skills were pretty non-existent at the time. I quite liked the aesthetic, and it was the first game I played with unit veterancy, which was neat. The surface-subterranean gimmick seemed pretty half-baked, though.

I was having a good time until the game fucked itself and crashed on start-up. I still wanna finish the campaign sometime.

Never played it, although i heard it was like a warcraft 3 clone with less races
Can i select more than 12 units at a time?

Pretty much. Only 10 or 12 units for mouse-drag selection, but there was a feature that let you use those 10-12 as subgroups and select any combination of them at once.

By setting any combination of subgroup, do you mean i can select several sub groups at once, or i can just have any combination of units in a sub group?

Relic and Sega will make RTS great again!

Dont bet on it user
RTS's are dying from the cancer called RTT's
RTTs have been doing so badly that the entire genre of RTSs is slowly decaying

I actually finished it just recently, the fallen are my favorite design wise. The veterancy system benefited the humans the most since it gave them auras to use with less expierenced units, the beasts level just made them stronger as far as I know, and I don't think I ever got the fallen's lvl past the first one, the soul well thing never gave me anything past the first ability.

You could select several sub groups at once.

Ok after watching a few reviews on youtube I've come to the conclusion that this is the sequel to starcraft we have all been looking for

Its got a combination of elements from warcraft 2 and 3 as well as starcraft
the races are A mix between human, orcs and undead zergs

Does anyone have Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge in English installed and could upload the two files langmd.mix and language.mix?

I'm not a huge fan of the German dub of the game but it would be nice to experience the original for one. Would be much appreciated.

Isn't the german version also heavily censored? I remember green blood, no ebul gnazi symbols, robots instead of humans.
You germans are all kinds of retarded.

Not Red Alert 2. Red Alert 1 had robots instead of humans as soldiers and we all know the parody that Generals was.

Nowadays the censoring has pretty much stopped. It all started way back when the favorite game of some school shooter was counter strike and thus video games were blamed by the media. I can't remember the last game that was censored. Obviously, swastikas aren't allowed, but that's unrelated to the gaming industry.

I have it installed, but I'm at work. If you can wait like 10 hours, I can get a Mega link for you. It might take shitload of time to upload though, I have shitty internet.

Yeah, that would be great! I could just download them tomorrow, if I'm in bed by then. Thanks.

Post lörs face when GLA = IS

I just realized: couldn't you just copy the files from an English iso? At least then you wouldn't be waiting as long for me to get them uploaded.

It's alright, I'm not in a hurry. Also: Can't get an iso from the open seas due to being on a college internet line.

Oh. Right. German University. Nevermind. I'll be home in probably another 5 hours and then I can start uploading.

So a thread or two ago, an user showed me an entertaining SupCom FAF caster, and I've watch about a dozen games.

I realized recently that the games with water were more dynamic and all around more interesting to watch. Water play is varied, balanced, and holds many unique terrain mechanics. All in all, it seems like the successful implementation of water combat as a third dimension, something many games try and fail to do.

Are there any games that do water combat as well? AoE2's poorly balanced and ends up being a galleon spam contest. Warcraft 3's barely exists as a map gimmick. AoE3's is a clusterfuck, though more competent than the other two. Age of Mythology's is decent balance-wise, but water is the least powerful plain for effecting damage vs land (AoM is also land-centric in general, not many air units or even maps with a decent amount of water). That's it for RTS with water combat that I've played.

I'd chuck Command and Conquer, except I'm a faggot that doesn't really know if it's balanced. It doesn't really feel too much different in a lot of cases, more just making artillery but on the water.

If you want exclusively water battles, Submarine Titans is for you.

Made it home, going to heat dinner and then I'll get on uploading for you.

Not that user, but from what little I played of Red Alert 2 it looks like the water play isn't well balanced.

So, turns out the box that has RA2 installed isn't setup anymore and my current box doesn't like the installer. So the best I got is RA2's language.mix: mega.nz/#!wdJAjZzT!jLvc1UX6nkdUhh1RZE_wMUToCZ51yGb7LSx7A1uZwJw

Sorry that took longer than even I expected.

From what I can tell all six .mix files are what determine the language of the game. Odd that I can't find them online anywhere, I was expecting them to be uploaded in at least one c&c forum.

language.mix changed everything except the cutscenes, which I'll just watch on YouTube. langmd.mix would have been for Yuri's Revenge. Thanks a lot for going through the trouble.

I never understood (read: liked) that. Is it made to force players to micromanage, to prevent zergrushing? Why? (I'm just really bad at RTS and this is what all my tactics come down to.)

You can still zerg rush it just makes it a little inconvenient. You just have to select the groups and assign them to the number keys. Seems like an artificial and meaningless restriction, but i'm a scrub who can't into RTS multiplayer so take my opinion with a grain of salt

it's the only thing that keeps me going at this point :^)

Now that you mention it, it was kind of strange. I mean, earlier RTS never had such a limit, so why did they add it in?

Actually, most early RTS did had a limit on the amount of units you could select. Often it was very high, but it was there.
Try selecting 100 soldiers in AoE, for instance.

I recall that in War Wind 2, you also had a limit of about 25 units, but since you never needed that many anyway, it's probably for optimization reasons.
Perhaps they don't want you to issue too many move orders at the same time, or having units selected fills some limited array they didn't think to expand (if it was even possible).

You're welcome. I'm going to try and setup the other box that has YR installed and I'll try to get langmd.mix at some point. If I could help it, I'd also get the cutscenes up for you because they're a big part of the experience.

I'm pretty sure there is no selection limit in any of the CnC games, and the first one is a bit old.

You mentioned AoE played it after about decade last night for the first time again, it's bloody great and I know for a fact that the game features formations which could be a good explanation for the limit. If you could select too many units it would probably fuck the formation up (or make the soldiers go where you don't want them to), so they put a limit to make it work nicely and so you wouldn't have to worry about selecting too many units.

Same with Warcraft 3.

Try dividing your army into two smaller groups, either by melee/ranged or just two smaller mixed armies.
The first is good if you're attacking an enemy head on, the second for flanking manoeuvres.

Play around, there's nothing to lose.
Protip: press ctrl 1, 2, 3… to assign groups.

I'm a retard, I meant AoM.
They're all too fucking similar.

Here is mine for Yuri: mega.nz/#!8tgDDQKb!3yA11g9bPbmMP-J6liM7sz7ext0059JA_22MhYn-A-c

Cutscenes files are movies01.mix, movies02.mix, movmd03.mix.

Anyway, no, every .mix file is just archived data, so for language you need only language.mix for base game and langmd.mix for Yuri while for cutscenes you need these which I listed above. Come on, m8, you could understand that just by reading filenames alone.

Since I'm too kind, here are cutscene files for you: mega.nz/#!49Ij0axb!KzRATg7gnkjGxB51t1G_vIxthZLqIjb2Ad-9YdzXH2g

springrts.com/

Thanks, user! Now I don't need to move desktops around.

Damn, thanks a lot! You guys are great! Now, I can finally play this game in the original.

What put me off the German dub the most is the weird "mix" between the two languages. I suppose it was too complicated to translate Tanya saying "shake it baby", but having her say "Ja, shake it baby!" in a German accept gets old very fast.

Are these both for RA2 and YR?

Yes. 1 is from the Allies disc, 2 is from the Soviet disc, and md is from the YR disc.

Thanks man!

I liked that tank DOTA map it had, but then everyone metad it up with allied tank destroyers and it was no fun again.

Strange nobody made a similar game.

Ashes is at a new low of $20. Worth it? How's the campaign?

Come on, lads.

I've heard the game needs an expansion to reach its potential, otherwise its mediocre with some ideas.

Is it even possible for good RTS games to be made anymore?

Most of the people who enjoy RTS games are already playing them. Any game devs that want to make a new RTS and want to target these people are going to be competing against every one of those older, great RTSes. If it's not 'better' than all or most of them, it will not draw enough players away from the older RTSes and won't have much appeal for people not interested in RTSes.

Given the difficulty of accomplishing that goal, how could any studio hope to compete? Failure means millions of dollars down the drain. Has the RTS painted itself into a corner that is impossible to escape from?

This is a difficult, multifaceted question. The short answer is 'If you make a decent game, you will reach an audience'.

The long answer has to be tackled from many points. For a start, let's look at the latest biggest RTS success (financially), SC2. SC2 made money. Whether it was a good game is entirely a different argument. It drew in a crowd large enough to turn a profit. This provides us with the information that an audience exists for RTS. Similarly, niche genre games, like Crusader Kings and Path of Exile, also turn a profit.

Next we need to understand why the most recent games have failed in the face of some degree of interest; Grey Goo etc. I didn't actually play it personally, and that's because my mind switched off the moment they started talking about competitive balance and esports. It also looked very bland for an RTS, with little uniqueness in unit design. Others probably have their own stories. There has also been a lot of criticism leveled towards the very recent 8-bit armies, over it being bland, simple etc, which drove me away from looking deeper into the game. I did watch their video and look at their screenshots, but it didn't tell me enough about the game experience to convince me to play. The point ultimately ends up being; neither game was initially appealing and neither game had strong word of mouth.

The next part is about understanding the fundamental reasons people play RTS, which isn't easy and requires a lot of analyzing and breaking down I don't really care to go into. Here's my general advice. Look at a successful RTS. Why did it succeed where others failed? What did it do differently? What did people like? What was fun about it? What was bad about it that could be improved?

Pick up the Shockwave mod. It's a what-if mod for if EA didn't fuck Westwood during its development and actually implemented the cut content. There may be more units in the mod than in the base game.

I'm not joking.

It's possible to make good RTS at least on the level of C&C, the devs are just lazy and/or incompetent to make something really good. Look at Grey Goo and 8-bit Armies, these two were made by some ex-Westwood devs and you know what Westwood did in the past.

If I were you, I'd rather ask if there is someone who's capable enough to make good RTS. And to answer this question, no. Perhaps only modders can make good RTS.

SC2 is a bad example because people expected SC1 from it, many were disappointed. It also had that ultrajewish episodes which only a game that popular can afford. SC2 is also a fucking gookclick and le esport which was the bane of most recent RTS games because gooks dont need games, they need one game to where they can click as much as they want and be popular.

Now there are others questions: Why SC2 is deemed a lesser game than SC1 or WC3? Why SupCom2 ever made it and why it failed so fucking hard while SupCom1 still lives? Why people enjoy wargame series but the another game (Act of Aggression) made by same devs failed?

Act of faggression is a more simple version of act of war with less content, also i hear the campaigns were more shit glad it wasn't just me

SC2 is shit because its made for gook clicking, SC was not
They also jewed out on the maps which pissed off every single WC3 fan out there

Supcom 2 never existed and belongs in the shadow realm

Add Emperor Battle for Dune to the list, for fuck's sake.

I actually liked the new features - while random resource placement did create some imbalance, that could have been avoided by keeping things less random, sticking to certain patterns, but still maintaining a mild randomization. And they removed this, returning to Act of War oil wells. They even removed the multiple resource types which may not be that bad as removal of surveying and randomness.

They removed the automatic deployment of construction vehicles and issuing construction orders from the command center, returning to traditional builder units, which also sucks.

It may make the game better, but you know what really sucks? They abandoned all attempts at innovation they had in favour of old and tried a million times RTS cliches. And that's disappointing, RTS is so unpopular because it fails to discover a proper way of abandoning old conventions while still being fun, and innovation is paramount to preserving it. But nope, let's just stick to old formulas.

Somebody should make a more readable and well-organized infograph.

It's good if you like massive battles like SUpCom, but it was geared towards multiplayer and skmirmishes against AI, with campaign serving only as a prolonged tutorial of sorts.

Is there a chart or list of recommended RTS games?

Right here friendo

Oh that looked like something else from the thumbnail. Thanks.

Good news everyone, I finally managed to find a Warfare torrent rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3845671

Wait a minute, where is Battle Realms in this chart? It should be noteworthy for its choice-driven campaign and unique unit production style. (You get a peasant, you train the peasant in one of three buildings, training them in the other two buildings changes what they are for up to 7 unit combinations).

Seems a bit redundant when there is already a few Dunes up there
Maybe we should just do what we did with Cossacks

Haven't played it and I'm not sure where it belongs
If you want to add it, do it yourself

Now that this thread has reached it's bump limit and is probably on page 10 or something, I wanted to tell you you were some of the chillest niggers I've chatted with in a long while.