How hopeless is the Left?

Capitalist social relations are almost inescapable. Even if you aren't directly participating you'll still feel their impact, that's the real horror. Every tribal island nation that disappears into the ocean is testament to that.

Speaking as someone who's always had leftist leanings but never really had much interaction with other people with similar sentiment (outside of the typical socdem and progressive liberal crowd) it's also been a great way for me to engage with theory and learn some more about leftism from a theoretical perspective, something that I don't really think would've been possible otherwise. I always had a problem with intersectionalists and liberal bullies too, but I could never quite place my finger on it and I was kind of afraid that I might be secretly racist or sexist or something, until I realized that it wasn't just me.

Ironically, I would've never reached this place if I hadn't gotten completely fed up with stormfag politics in my video game discussion on halfchan Holla Forums. From that perspective, I think it would be great for those who are interested in advancing the cause to engage with other apathetic lefties in other places. Especially young people on sites like tumblr who may have never engaged with a materialist critique of capitalism. Stormfront didn't colonize /new/ and then Holla Forums by just quietly sitting under their bridge the whole time, after all.

If you keep things in perspective this place is great, despite the polyps and bait threads. The sheer amount of literature that gets passed around here alone makes it worthwhile.

wired.com/2012/06/copenhagen-suborbitals-profile/
yes we can

Holla Forums is literally the only board worth reading, everything else is overtaken by idpol. not that it doesn't have its place, but rather its standarbearers have let their movement become corrupted by the bourgeoisie.

i dunno, i see a coming confluence of nationalistic and socialistic ideas. it's becoming increasingly clear that most people are too racist/sexist/hateful to get along, especially when they espouse diametrically opposed beliefs. i'd like to see a socialist movement which admits that culture matters, and then move from there. that uncontrolled immigration destroys the sense of community. that multiculturalism is a failure.

other than that literally everyone i know is either a neocon or sjw and it's nice to be among those who unironically admire marx & co.

this. this is why socialism is inevitable, and why our fight is just and why i will always be a communist to the depths of my soul.

unless of course us leftists don't see what marx didn't see: capitalisms ability to adapt:
bullshit jobs, the killing off of technology that can take jobs so old systems can die naturally, copyright laws, bail outs, credit cards, ect. are all things that capitalism has created to stop human progress ie marxism.

all we can do since there is such a ridiculously negative and unfair stigma about all things communism is hope capitalism doesn't catch on that star trek utopia future can happen in a couple hundred years and stop it so the few rich can continue to get richer and the poor poorer

Your post is all over the place, I don't really get it.

So, you're saying that socialist policies cannot be ressurrected? What policies are there to be implemented, then?

Considered by whom, exactly? Neoliberals? Neocons?

USSR had the 3rd highest GDP of the world. And if it was that dysfunctional, it wouldn't have existed for more than 70 years.

But, really, what do you propose we do, exactly? If policies from socialist countries are not okay, idpol is not okay, socdems are not okay, and libertarians are not okay… I guess you're an anarchist then.

A workers revolution is not possible, but a "leftist" revolution is? What kind of leftist revolution is that? A revolution without workers?

Not an actual leftist but I've lurked much out of interest. I don't really think there are many people who actually endorse stalinism here. Just as there are not many actual harcore nazis on Holla Forums. Channers just love to sound edgy and those who actually believe it are a retards who've been fooled.
Anyway I agree with your observations on the state of the left and this board, although it's amusing enough to keep me coming back.

Leftypol is largely useless except as a resource for trading and learning theory, and for shitposting. It was a pretty comforting place when I was stuck being a wageslave last year though.

The Left itself is still trying to recover from the conservative/neoliberal assaults of the past few decades, and the collapse of the Soviet Union. Though the absence of activist/militant Leftist parties might be a blessing, a way to avoid the dogmatism and sectarianism of previous Marxist party movements. My hope is that new, practical Leftist movements will arise organically as the neoliberal capitalist structure crumbles in the next few decades. The most important task right now is to foment general ideological and moral opposition to capitalism and fascism, which seems to be working out quite well among young people today.

You are wrong, the left is more than just that.

The left also take working people's hard earned money like it was labour surplus and give them randomly according to what some politicians felt last night.

Meanwhile, the base argue endlessly about where freaks should take a shit.

Meanwhile, corporations push for an international trade agreement so they don't have to obey the national laws any more.

Why shouldn't they? The left does not watch them.

You mean proletariat, right?
Your goal is to value hard work and to get everyone having a job, right?

...

That's not how surplus labour works.

The base doesn't mean rabble, nor 99%.

And so on.

Once again, the right proves that it can only survive by (mis)appropriating our terminology.

The population don't give a shit, like OP said they want to drink a beer.

The ones who got a job to do was the militant base of the various movements in the left. They forgot to do it because petty issues take all their time.

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Stop talking so much and admit you're either an anarchist or a plain revisionist already.

color me surprised, what a discovery

what is it?

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thx

Leftpol isn't funny, true, or even hopeful. It is literally nothing. This place is a dead dumpster and on the wrong side of history. That's giving it too much credit. It isn't even a footnote tbh

Not true, I see many posters slowly shifting to the only real, zizek sponsored, dialectical ideology.

The alt left is the dialectical conclusion of the day. A synthesis of the extreme wings of politics. If Hegel was alive today he'd be shitposting about how shitty pajeets are

My, how deluded

So, alt-left is basically the new name for National Bolshevism?

There definitely seems to be some anti-capitalist feelings arising in young people, and a general distaste for the current establishment in even more, so there is a bit of a leftist resurgence going on, even if it is moving very slowly.
And honestly, a lot of "chan-culture" (besides maybe the recognition of shared struggle at times), prevents most boards from getting anything at all done.

I think the most important thing to do is to be active in community events and groups. You won't spread class conciousness and ideals by sitting on an internet site.

I attend meetings and debates in my local area, go to pubs with people discuss issues with people from all over the spectrum, get involved with the local Communist party or something, you need to get out there to make a difference people.

Revolution dosen't come overnight and I don't think my contribution or our indevidual contributions towards spreading Leftist ideas will do much good, but it's something and we need something at least.

Revolution doesn't come before education, friendo, and these people are uneducateable

Discussion of ideas matters, especially to people who are on the Left of the spectrum and aren't completely spooked. Sure, you get some stuck up Liberals and Socdems but some of these people, especially the younger ones have potential.

Of course, it's not easy, people are very confident in their own views and their own ideologies and refuse to put on the glasses and stop eating out of the trash can but at least attempting to educate these people are put forward arguments can contribute to a shift in their understanding of Marxism and hopefully appeal to them.

I'm not saying it's easy and or possible in most cases, I believe material conditions are a huge determining factor in if people are ready to accept Marx or not but the point being we should at least try. The people in my area are thick as pig shit and are mostly reactionary retards but they're not stupid in the sense that they would go against their own interests if persuaded otherwise. Mostly just spooked on immigration and nationalism.

Said the man with no beliefs at all other than "marxism bad" and pic related.
Which is completely untrue. People can say what they want about Syriza, Corbyn, He Who Must Not Be Named, the Greens, etc. but they show a clear interest in the left that needs to be tapped by a new left- not a group interested in replacing the current hierarchy with their own (fascist or sometimes at best fascist-socialist ripsters and their ilk), but a group interested in abolishing hierarchy. One that looks at the left that existed in between 1840 and 1990 and takes what was good and discards the rest. One that officially declares anarchism and Leninism as failed ideologies that should be pruned. One that has clear goals and doesn't lose sight of them like the socialists who became socdems did, but is accepting of small victories and practical applications of socialism (or, you know, not leftcom).
But we do. Just like the right had its chance to organize and spread and probably missed it unless AfD continues doing well and they take a hint that memes aren't everything. But unlike their almost-gone shot, ours is just coming into sight.
If you want to sit on your hands, that's fine, n1x. But most of us have a good enough understanding of nihilism and egoism to know that what we want is still worth fighting for.

Being on the proletarian left is always a challenge. The socialist project is a long, difficult process, with a relatively low chance of succeeding in any given lifetime. I'd say it's no better than 50-50 odds that the revolution happens before the environmental damage caused by capitalism causes the demise of human civilization. A lot of young people I think leave the left because they realize that it's not some easy utopian gibs me dat tea party, but it's a war which can ruin their careers, alienate their friends, destroy their families, take their freedom, or even take their lives. We sail down a river of the blood of martyrs for human liberation.

Yet we soldier on. This board gives us the ability to anonymously discuss theory and potentially coordinate praxis (though I'd like to see a bit more of that than I do now). Today for Labor Day I had a conversation with a man about capitalism and socialism, and while I'm not sure I got very far, hopefully I may have at least convinced him to read the theoretical writings of Marx under the guise of "knowing one's enemy". It's little things like this that slowly move the reactionary side of the proletariat closer and closer to class consciousness.

True words, comrade. I think it's the challenge that is the biggest problem. The struggle that people are presented with always throws them off and while things might not be perfect now, a little reform here and a little tweaking of the system there will do for most people. They're not willing to commit themselves to an ideology, due to the possibilities you just listed.

However, this is just now and I feel that in due time there could be a shift in this attitude. When people are given a choice to continue to be fucked or to break away from the chains that keep them held down they typically take the latter, even if the struggle is great. Now, all we can do, is discuss ideas and try to convince people but talking with normal people is absolutly vital and I can't stress it enough.

It's good to see other people are out there doing things and trying at least to get people thinking about what they can do and why this system just isn't working. I hope that guy can be a comrade in the future and I certainly hope we can go on to sway many other people onto our side.

Porky can just fire all his workers, keep all the money to himself and invest in warrior robots to protect his money from anyone who tries to take it away.

We're fucked.

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I don't get it. If anarchism is bad, socdem is bad, Leninism is bad, nihilism is bad, and keftcom is bad, what is it exactly what you're preaching for?

An ideology being old doesn't mean it's bad. Besides, every ideology there was to be made up already existed in the 19th century. Every "new" theory people can come up with nowadays will just be a copy from some other old one.

Sadly, none of it matters anymore to me. Say what you will about me, I don't care. I just plain lost hope.

Meant for

the 'I've been here for a week and u suck lollool' thread didn't take, eh?

It's a frustration with the radical left in general, not just with this board. Marx's entreaty to trust in the working class has fallen on a lot of ears deafened by the reactionary ignorance of the population over the years. To us, revolt seems so obvious and in our interests, yet the proles we talk too are usually wholehearted supporters of capitalism, and many will defend it with their lives. No one said consciousness-raising was easy.

Her confidence is misplaced

The left was always hopeless.

Nihilism isn't bad, nihilists just miss the point often.
I'm personally a De Leonist but I am happy to cooperate with other strands of libertarian Marxism, which is what I'm preaching for.

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The working class is suspicious that revolution will translate into them having their wages stolen to pay for Shaniqua's brood of niglets.

Are you seriously stupid enough to believe this?

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ageed

Good post, OP.

I mostly agree with you, however I also think that people can have their class consciousness raised pretty easily. It's just not easy to see on this board because it's full of NEETs who don't go outside. (Sorry, Holla Forums, but it's true)

I don't really care about ideological purity, what school I belong to, etc. When I'm at work (in retail) and it's just me and my fellow workers around, I am able to plant seeds of class consciousness in their heads by talking about how horrible the top brass is, how we need to be paid more, etc. I find that if you work people in from the typical labor union angle, you can eventually gradually introduce them to more leftist ideas and they will be more receptive. It's all about the framing of what you say.

Sharing shit memes about how lolberts are dumb doesn't really help raise consciousness, it just gets your jollies off.

This. Holla Forums isn't a political party. I'm sick of all this serious bullshit. It's a discussion board for left leaning politics. I'm not interested in growing the board or shilling us on found are whatever. This board was nice and comfy last year. Tripfags and IRCfags ruined everything.

OP Here
Here's an excellent example of the hopelessness i'm talking about:

8ch.net/leftypol/res/912413.html#913065

Leftists who police others on their lifestyles and how having fun "prevents" the revolution.

>>>/Liberalpol/

Yeah why haven't you guise embraced your lord and savior capital yet. IT'S 2016!!

Applying Marxist theory that is strictly materialistic to immaterial things such as psychoanalytic identity and multiculturalism (another word for anti-culturalism) has killed the left mostly.

The denial of the Soviet Union is defeatism. The propaganda against it has taken a deep place in the heart of every modern leftist - muh gorillions, muh breadlines.

Post-Leftism may still ask the property question (with with leftism stands and falls) but simply shies away from the consequences such a question implies, and prefers to live in agony and shill for neoliberal projects like mass immigration.

Holla Forumss anarchists for example love their guns and shit. Yet when it comes to asking the property question, they place the issues of "statelessness" and anti-authoritarianism (which is a form of IdPol tbh) over it because the answers scare them to the bones so they rather retreat into their utopian torture chamber. This is symptomatic for the radical left nowadays.

Anyone who can't find the materialist basis in the revolutionary research of Freud should be castrated, or at least circumcis✡d :^)

"Materialist" as in "childhood sexuality" am I right?

Haha, this is how it always happens. People will start getting killed during or after revolution because others feel they are not "dedicated" enough or some other nonsense constantly constantly fighting over ideological purity. This board is proof of that and all it is missing is the violence.

You can't really call yourself an an-com if you think that.

Of course I can.

Porky is evil, not stupid, he knows it's coming and he will adapt effectively, like he always has

That pic is empirical philosophy at its finest

The destruction of the world's climate sure makes a strong case against that

the bourgeoisie is actually losing their historically amazing class consciousness if they do decide to destroy the world for their individual/family ends.

perhaps it is our only chance at a fatal strategy, we sure as fuck don't move as fast as they can.

lenin did tell us they'd sell us the rope we use to hang them, maybe it was even easier and they'll hang themselves?

It's a "why isn't this board of discussion a political party" episode

Literally no one claims this.

No, not really.
That doesn't mean that studying socialist movements of the past isn't useful.

Past movements, mostly.
These people weren't going to care about politics regardless. It's not like the right has any better of a hold on them. They'll snap out of it when capitalism falls into deeper crisis and the panem et circenses begins to run dry.

Because it's happened before. Believing that something that's happened before could happen again is hardly a religious notion.
While I agree with this, I'd like to point out that capitalist apologists are hardly any better, still living in the 20th century, pretending that Western liberal capitalism is still functional and on the rise.

It's another "why isn't this board of discussion a political party" episode.

Holla Forums is not a political party. It's a forum of discussion. If you want to "get things done", join a political organization. If you want to talk about things, come to Holla Forums.

This except one thing.
I don't get this "larping" meme.
I'm not larping anyone. I want to learn theory and understand it all, and I want see if we(the anti-capitalist left) can come up with new theory that fits our current material conditions and with the help of which we can bring about socialism, in whatever new and exciting form it is theorized in that ethereal, new theory.
But we have a new problem, we don't have that theory, and that's why the modern anti-cap left is withering on the vine. The best thing we have is some obscure movements around the world clinging to old theory and not posing a serious threat to porky. The first fire of revolution is going out and they are the remaining embers. Our job should be to either reignite it or to start a new one entirely, and sadly I don't see it happening. Our current big thinkers offer no solutions to anything, I mean just listen to Zizek, I've heard more than 100 hours of him talking(don't judge, he tells funny stories) but not once he offers any advice on bringing about socialism, and do't get me started on "commander" Prairie Fire aka the hobo-looking junkie who talks about "Red Zones" in the 3rd world.

I personally foresee a grand restoration of right wing "populism" in the whole 1st world which we have to exploit for our cause. We need, no MUST grab the disgruntled liberals and socdems that will inevitably turn into saltpillars once right wing parties win and finally make them woke. We need to recruit the non-unionized, millenial low-wage worker to join us.

Sry if the post is chaotic but this was like a stream of consciousness thing, and i'm not editing that shit.

Nah, you're on point tankie. Zizek is right about one thing for sure: we need more people to be thinking and developing theory to fit current times. Hopefully people on Holla Forums and other discussion fora are actually learning old theory and will turn it into something new.

Hopefully.

pleb

IS-2's barrel is too long for 20x16 pixels