youtube.com
ITT We examine the points and go over the mistakes muke made on his debate with the /po/lyps.
We are all bullying him now but tbh i doubt much of leftypol could do better. So lets take this as an opportunity to learn and refine our own points.
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
docs.google.com
pritchardlab.stanford.edu
psychology.uwo.ca
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
medicalxpress.com
cell.com
theroot.com
unz.com
nytimes.com
ln.edu.hk
twitter.com
It's leftypol's mistake for putting their money on a guy who's content to be mediocre.
Xexizy's mistake for lacking any empathy for normies. You can't win an argument using scary, technical language like "bourgeois". People don't respond well to that. That was his first mistake.
Well actually, his first mistake was not reading. His second mistake was not preparing.
Good idea, bump
It's not like we elected him. He went on his own, someone posted the link and we watched it and cringed. He wasn't Holla Forums's official public speaker or anything.
You should have let me debate the stormfags where can I sign up for the next one?
Just a general tip is to go offensive and bombard them with questions instead of being on the defensive, most of the debate was Muke answering questions and getting ripped out.
I don't think muke was btfo, I think the people he debated are just spamming this board with threads about that
Well, by the reaction a lot of you have honorarily "elected" him. If you hadn't, you wouldn't care. You wouldn't associate yourselves with him. Maybe *you* didn't individually, but then I'm not busting your balls, just the leftypolacks who did.
This will sound arrogant, but there's nothing to learn from this debate that you shouldn't already know. If you have to go over the points, you don't spend long enough doing your own independent research, reading and
MOST IMPORTANTLY, AS EVIDENCED BY THIS DEBATE
Getting outside of the echo chamber to spread your ideas and test them.
It was just "bad" until the end, but when everybody started running and leaving him on his own there was a real BTFO vibe.
This. The polacks were being utterly retarded. Calling jamuse nigger, talking about joos this and joos that, looping over and over again on shit like homogenousness and cultural marxism. It was 100% memes.
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Read Hegel :DDD
don't be surprised when someone rings your neck you annoying son of a fuck
I already made pretty much the same rant here and no, we didn't "de facto" elect them just because we're emotionally invested in this debate.
We're invested in it because if Holla Forums had the hability to teach, train, prepare and evolve people through osmosis and through creating a space for dialogue, as libertarians for example do, even the most mediocre of us should be able to handle the softballs they were throwing. So he's not our finest specimen, but he's one of us and he just showed there's something deeply wrong with our "pedagogy" or whatever you can call this.
See, he lost here.
You are not even close 2 being tru patrician of opinions
your fucking "read x" meme is being exploited by Holla Forumsacks to discredit muke right now
10:05
Already off to a horrible start. A #1 rule for preaching to the non-converted is to not bore by specifying what particular tradition of Socialism you belong to and what's the difference between them. Particularly if you're going to sound like a high school kid trying to remember his lines for a presentation.
I'm not so sure.
What it sounded like to me was that none of them there had ever been present in a full blown Holla Forums slide thread.
His responses and attempts at them, as with all of them, was very normy. Normy in the sense that they took things on good faith, that they shouldn't have.
There wasn't a debate being lost, it was an infograph-style setup where the conclusions were being lead to only one point possible, almost every time. They were too trusting, whereas the Holla Forums reps were just sitting there trying to guide and prime the field towards a foregone conclusion, not engage in any sort of debate. (and counter points were just dismissed, not argued against for the most part, then back to sliding again and guiding towards new fields)
Should've stuck to economics rather than get dragged into a HBD/race debate.
No need to get aggressive or interrupt. State facts and keep composure.
His answer to "what is Marxism?" is all over the fucking place.
no one takes it seriously tho
Agree with that.
then what are you supposed to say? The rich, or wealthy?
rich and wealthy is completely wrong though.
That's not an issue at all. The issue is worker exploitation.
yes, but when asked where the result of that occurs you can't just go muh borgy!
Nig nogs, Holla Forums here, you need to understand that the squad of debaters from TRS knew perfectly well all the leftypol terminology.
Owning classes. The elites. The upper class, the upper caste. Those who make their money as opposed to those who have to work and earn it.
You can just say capitalist.
Go watch some of RD Wolff's vids. He rarely uses Marxian goobledygook terms and still manages to explain Marxism p well.
Debates aren't about convincing the opponent. The idea is to convince the audience.
Dude, africans can't manage institutions, marxism doesn't work for the 3rd world
It does, but you have to go through state capitalism.
reddit pls go
Debates are a stupid american thing that treats people as sheep.
You are not to find any form of truth, it's all about making people believe your truth.
They have nothing to do with dialectics.
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Holla Forums pls go
exactly, I was thinking this yesterday when he said they were debating on his channel
You can't critique capitalism in the third world? Or you can't have a materialist philosophy in the third world?
The people muke were debating with mentioned a documentary that Holla Forums likes to spergs over; They were using it to imply low IQ populations couldn't build civilizations without whites.
I believe the documentary is called Empire of Dust: youtube.com
implying polacks understand leftypol terminology
Oh yeah, before they got onto this topic, they were essentially claiming socialism only works with homogeneous countries and their proof of this was universal health care and it only being available to homogeneous countries.
(checked)
Neetsuccs believe that they are a turd position between socialism and capitalism
when in reality its just democratic socialism with racist characteristics
You have no points. Everything you have is pseudo-intellectual blabber.
You lefties are absolutely pathetic.
No we don't.
Nazism is authoritarian you uneducated nigger. It has always been and will always be authoritarian.
So… Belgium or Spain is a homogeneous country?
The problem is, their very concept of "race" is false. If you accept their "Race" definition, ofcourse they steamroll you.
Honestly speaking what are the last 5 books you've read?
My last five reads:
well, that's it but those are really all you really need to know.
I hate talking about this to hamburgers. Universal health care literally exists in every country on the planet that can afford it. Fucking dimwits are so classcucked they're convinced its some kind of impossible unicorn.
Liberty or Equality ( just finished ), Ride the Tiger, Beyond Good and Evil, The Ego and Its Own, The Birth of Tragedy
So how do you explain the majority of ns who say shit like capitalism and communism are jewish tools?
Also Hitlerism≠Nationalistic Socialism
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Capitalism and Socialism are both extremely materialistic. They are two very similar ideologies built on material needs.
I read Atlas Shrugged but it gave me the downs, and now I can't read books any more :(
So, how do feel about the fact that Hitler basically purged the SA on the orders of German business elite?
Are you genuinely retarded?
We aren't between. we are separate.
How?
nice satan trips btw
Way to support a guy who didn't understand Heidegger at all
how the fuck does one read ego and his own and still be spooked?
simple: they don't understand it
I always thought debates were simply to vocalise your ideas and put them to the test.
In a good debate you might learn more about the other sides ideas or how to consolidate your ideas in the language of other ideas.
Money and the distribution of it is the first and the most important part of both socialism and communism, they are both material, wealth based ideologies.
The distribution of wealth sure can be a part of other ideologies too, but usually it's not #1.
I read the ideas on the other side of the political spectrum too. You should try doing that.
Debating is never separate from the practice and influence of real interests and political ends. The relationships these form are brought out in "debates".
Oh God, you guys really are just LARPing cliches
LMAO 💂💂💂
Oh my my god, he's larping a member of the Thule Society.
True, but is it not unproductive to go into a debate to get that "gotcha" moment on your opponent ?
Sure one. So I should only read books that you approve? :^)
just making sure you do realize that communists and anarchists and most socialists want to abolish money because they see it as a form of gathering and maintaining economic domination over people right?
Sorry, I should've said wealth instead. Redistribution of wealth, not money. Money can be created and destroyed, wealth isn't inherit to it :^)
I mean. It's not quite…the concept of redistributing wealth?
It's moving the method of accumulation of economic power to the commons rather than just a sort of simplistic "give everyone everything"
No, but you can borrow my library card if you want it, desu ne ㅇㅅㅇ
That's something, of course, only a Nietzschean could conceive of.
this.
Not to mention: welfare != socialism
You're just saying wealth using different terms.
Wealth implies that the things that you own have value. Communism proposes making it such that the value of all wealth is zero and thus would have zero trade value which means that you can't accumulate wealth.
You can't just go and show a girl in her panties like that.
A girl's panties are her soul. She can't just go around showing them to anyone. That is so wrong.
This is exactly what I'm speaking about. Socialism, like it or not, is about wealth one way or another. Whether it's the nullification of wealth, distribution of wealth or free market capitalism or even corporatism.
Underwear, sex supermarket that sells marital aids and exotic lingerie. Even, if you remember in the 70s, the great rush of advertising firms, it resulted in a cultural shift from sleaze to respectability; private space to public space and deviance to normal sexuality. Sexy lingerie became something to enhance lifestyle sexual consumption rather than sordid sleaze purchases.
Why do you think some feminists burn bras?
Well what do you expect out of it? It's an economic policy and philosophy. Saying that it's all about economics is a redundant statement. it's just that much of the rest of it grows out of this. It doesn't propose to answer everything in the universe, just the socioeconomic system.
Some guy posted their notes on on Xexeexexexexexexys videos in the video description
docs.google.com
who wants to go through it?
Unlike your enlightened self.
Y-you too.
What exactly am I looking at
And people want to have "Debates" with these people.
Cause they were reactionary faggots "fighting the power" without any realistic outcome.
Notes on Xex's videos from one of the opponents I think.
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Clearly hasn't read the Bible or Mao's Red Book :^)
That looks almost like a bagina : DD. Very cute.
Hail! (^･o･^)ﾉ”
If they were the reactionary ones, what does that make those producing the bras? What's their outcome?
the only way it'd be non-reactionary is if the bras were stolen before being burned. If they bought them they still supported the people making them.
this is you and marx
I noticed someone criticized subjectivism earlier, the irony is missed on you retards obviously, subjectivity is entirely what your line of thinking built on
The sad stereotype is still true, commies need to grow up and live in the real world outside their "theory"
It's the JEWS stupid.
"Human nature" doesnt destroy any arguments. It's just "nope people dont' work like that cause i said so, the moment you try to make communism people inexplicably turn billions of times more malicious than they have any reason to be and thus society is impossible except for mine." It's a literally anti-intellectual argument.
Eeer.. I thought they were produced in factories and workers, bourgies and so on…
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What does this have to do with anything?
Anarkids break glasses, and that creates income for glass producers.
How do you "Harm" capitalism when you destroy production?
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This is why women must be banned from any political activity.
"human nature" is effectively the equivalent of "god did it". You don't actually prove that it exists save for showing that it does by tautological arguments and all it does is serve as an impediment to further questioning as to why something happened.
You're hired.
Incoherent. Human nature is knowable, we can learn things about it. You deny human nature because it contradicts historical materialism which denies a specific human nature exists.
mukes fatal flaw is that he isn't a market socialist
People have been trying to prove the existence of and come to learn things about god(s) since literally antiquity. Why should I believe in human nature and not Jehovah?
r-r-read m-m-marx!!!111
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Are you implying that there's a problem with this?
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If only you would do the same
Alright then, I'll stop with the comparison (mostly because you completely missed the point) and bite.
How can we come to know human nature and know that such things known are separate from circumstances? How can you prove that X is in the nature of something and separated from it materially?
what is it about ?
This is incorrect.
Marx considered took human nature into full consideration. Our wants and desires, the way we order ourselves and react to material conditions is taken into full consideration.
What Marx never did, what socialists don't do, it make incredibly broad, absurd claims about human nature that ultimately mandate the status quo or a return to some legendary past. In this sense, Nature is just a secular surrogate for God, being some higher concept that mandates the traditional social structure.
There's no point that you made to miss. Your arguments are incoherent.
I only read summaries of Jewish literature because 90% of it is filler.
Marx believed in a progressive idea of history which has never been borne out by historic evidence. For the most part the alt-right believes in a cyclical history, with cultures going through phases that repeat ad-infinitum.
Not an argument.
So you're not going to answer the question when I directly ask how you can come to know what human nature is, a point that you explicitly claimed was possible.
Is your argument just going to be "nuh uh you're wrong"?
Oh yes, we haven't progressed from despotic tribalism to classical slave society to feudalism and then to capitalism. That's just in our heads.
Talking about things with no historical basis. Tell me about how the Roman Empire never fell, and slave society with it, giving way to the rise of feudalism.
So in other words, by your logic, technology and complex systems becoming increasingly complex, and the new form it takes becoming distinctly different, is impossible I guess.
Even just transportation, the speed, industrial revolution in general (but even more primitive, before that - husbandry, for farming; basic tools) - all lead, directly, to a change in society - its economy, and its structure in some tinier or larger sense. And it has never gone back, other than complete societal collapse (war, famine, extinction of a community due to either); and even then, the knowledge resides within the body of works written and recorded - that again make it have a permanent change (as its recreated).
You don't need to even have heard of Marx, to see this.
Someone summarize this post please
LARPer detected.
no guys you don't understand
it's not as if technology or societal differences are the measure of the progression of history
it's understanding your era
Strong people make good times
Good times make weak people
Weak people make bad times
Bad times make strong people
you just have to ignore that the concept of a "good" or "bad" era are based off the defintion of one another and literally any good or bad time will by necessity be bracketed by a bad era, because any two successive good or bad eras would just be lumped together as one good or bad era. Also just try not to think about the fact that these "strong" people have achieved a "good" era that they yet hate because they don't like that the "strong" people wear turbans.
They've defined "capitalist" as a private individual who owns the means of production and doesn't do 100% of the work. All they did was use the opportunity to smear "others" as "detrimental to human society and the cause of a lot of suffering in society" without specifically defining "capitalism." The years they've spent reading and they couldn't even nail down something this simple.
They basically defined themselves as controlled opposition. They weren't prepared for a debate, just an opportunity to take another deuce on top of Capitalism's head.
By studying the actions of those that came before, like you assess anything by forming an analysis on past events and objects?
Everything is in reaction, you must make your idea fit into the momentum of the human nature you just blindly ignore, because communists are literally insane and think that reality is cut into instances completely separated from one another? It's why you're so irrational, you wake up every day thinking nothing you said yesterday has mattered or has an effect on things that will happen today. Here's where you retreat into existential nihilism and say that none of the objects or events in history can be proven to be real so nothing can be obtained. You're insane.
Be my friend please
We do, faggot.
Try me
"Burgers" have to deal with 45 million negros. There are only 9 million in all of Sweden.
LOL, wait until Europe is filled with Blacks and Arabs. Good luck having your universal healthcare then.
you people are so easy to meme out of existence it's almost sad
half of Canada doesn't speak the same language and we manage it just fine.
WEWx10. Sage because this is a waste of time.
Switzerland has 4 languages (well, three IRL).
No.
Why are you people acting like America doesn't have language differences? There are states in America where schools need to teach over 40 different languages. GTFO with my "but, but, we have 2 languages".
In fact there is a SINGLE school in Florida where 37 different languages are spoken, lol.
Oh, so the goalpost is now about language? Good thing that you know, the majority, the large vast majority of the entire country speaks fucking English.
You are the ones that brought up language, lol.
No, the bar is still very much the 45 million negros that the US has and Canada and "Random European country" doesn't have. Live around negros and tell me your utopia is possible with them there…
Jesus. its like you can't keep up with your own argument.
cultural homogeneity is the supposed prerequisite in the shitty meme..
I am not the one that brought up language initially. The Canuck did.
As an indicator of a very large and distinct culture.
I didn't, though. You'll have terrible luck saving the white race if you are this retarded when it comes to reading.
The good old nigger boogeyman, never gets old. Can't explain something? Pull the "niggers" card, it's just their nature. Nevermind the fact that "niggers" (specific subset of black people) behave in the ways they do, like in any other place in the entire world, very much in thanks to the constant consumption of bourgeois media putting money, bitches and cars as the goals in life, as well as stigma from going outside their very boundaries.
Mr. Canada brought up the fact that Canada has two languages, yet "they make it work". Implying that Canada has different languages and America doesn't, therefor if large scale social projects work in Canada they should work in America.
The reality is, nothing could be further from the truth..
Here is Mr. Canada again spouting off BS. Canadians have never had to deal with 45 million niggers, which makes it hilarious listening to them talk about the subject like they actually know something about it.
God, you're so confused. how do even live?
What else could I expect from Holla Forums but general retardation?
what the fuck are you on about? This guy is totally correct
is this some kind of commie miscommunication? are we so different that we read and interpret English separately at this point?
If so that'd be pretty cool.
Nice tits. No word means the same for two individuals, but it gets worse when the "correct" guy doesn't even read the posts he replies to and thinks I am someone else even when I'm the one saging.
Nope that's social democray which is subject to market forces and capitalists instability. It's only good in a shirt term before it gives way to fascism.
fair enough
I'm having a lot of fun right now tbh fam
get your asses on twitter and harass me @HuhwhiteMale
muh critical theory fags need to be gassed
Well argued my familia, to be honest :^)
Tsk tsk tsk…..
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This board is a fucking laughriot.
Thanks, guys, you really make us Holla Forumsacks pissing in our little boys' pants.
Are you arguing that all races are the same?
Humans can be genetically categorized into five racial groups, corresponding to traditional races.
pritchardlab.stanford.edu
Genetic analysis "supports the traditional racial groups classification."
psychology.uwo.ca
"Human genetic variation is geographically structured" and corresponds with race.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Race can be determined via genetics with certainty for >99.8% of individuals.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Oral bacteria can be used to determine race.
medicalxpress.com
Race can be determined via brain scans.
cell.com
96-97% of whites have no African ancestry.
theroot.com
97% of Whites have no black ancestry whatsoever.
unz.com
There was "minimal gene flow" between archaic Europeans and Asians.
nytimes.com
Common-sense racial categories have biological meaning.
ln.edu.hk
Nice house, Muke. Nice multiple cars. Nice all materialistic designs that furnish your life while your comrades on Holla Forums struggle against the bourgeois. Oh wait, Muke. You are bourgeois. This whole board is really not against the capitalist oppression but against Muke oppression all along.
whites shouldn't be allowed on Holla Forums tbh
sheit !.
>>>/out/
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Examine and analyse all you want because you will never come up with any satisfactory answers. It will just be more of you pigeons shitting on the chessboard and ragequitting again.
thank you for pointing the absolute obvious
This "debate" was a retard fest that was in desperate need of moderator.
- No clear definition of "capitalism," just lots of inferences and beating around the bush. People need to do dialectics instead of just talking about it.
- Lots of impulsive interrupting to say stupid shit like "such-and-such-theorist wrote about that topic"
- Dancing around ISIS without know a lot about it. ISIS wears an anti-democratic facade, but it does not follow a rigid hierarchy so it's essentially run by the workers. Also, it's funded by Israel.
- Referred to the service industry as "post-industrial" which shows that they obviously mistake progressive Big Labor propaganda for academics.
- Equates capitalism and neo-liberalism. This is basically a causation fallacy that defines capitalism as a result rather than a complete system (of course no definition for any capitalist system is ever established).
- Xexizy yelled "GLOBAL CAPITALISM!!!" when he felt that he was being ignored.
- Egeiros claimed that it was OK that Hegel was a radical and not a leftist. These people care more about seeing shit blow up than seeing improvements in people's lives.
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this has got to be b8. This debate had me thinking I'd underestimated rightfags, but perhaps TRS r the exception to the rule.
what now?
Everything is about le race because i say so!!!!!! xDDDDD
Can we just allow communists only? Fucking hell.
Badly written and badly throughout book written by a butthurt kulak. Also she was on welfare the fucking moocher.