Communist Here AMA

How the fuck does workers controlling the means of production work?

What's your height and weight?

Nope.

They democratically vote on how to run the company so every worker gets a say.

You do realize your entire ideology was built up by Jews who hated the people they subjugated under communist rule and also went and killed tens of millions of them? Why haven't you killed yourself for continuing to identify with an ideology that has done nothing but cause misery and suffering?

Nobody cares

Is this just major decisions? Or is it over smaller stuff too? Elaborate.

All of this communism was corrupted by stalinism the main form of hyper-authoritarian state run economy seen in the eastern block ect.

There are no leaders to steal the workers surplus labor so essentially they vote on everything like in a worker Co-op.

sage in all fields lads, but I got dis. communist btfo with science.

You know Russkies kick ass in science right? Why you try and deny good mother russia science for stupid jew idea? Get real comrade. Seriously though, it's all about science. Imagine a bell curve. You want the "average" man, to have power to make decisions over more intelligent people? GTFO.

Did you ate shit?

So how will communism protect itself if it's so easy to remove?

sage

Why aren't you just a national socialist? It's kind of what you described except with ideals to strive for and without the destruction of everything pure and good in the world.

The Red Terror occurred before Stalin, you vile socialist filth.

How do you justify letting a bunch of uneducated workers handle decisions they aren't qualified to make because some cocksucker that only knows how to lay bricks and milk a goat doesn't know anything about large-scale economics?

Why are you not on /lefypol/?
Go back to your containment board fag.

Why do Marxist countries always collapse when the U.S.A. puts an embargo on them?

Are you going to answer this?

Then you're not a communist since one of the main teachings of communism is state control over the means of production AKA private property.

So you believe World War I will trigger the communist revolution?

Everything Stalin did, Lenin did first. He purged bureaucrats, he confiscated grain, he terrorized army officers, he executed political enemies to his left.

The difference is Lenin realized how fucked it all was and implemented NEP. Stalin argued that socialism could build enough steel factories for the proletariat to make utopia.

To a certain extent with Lenin setting up one gulag but it became much more violent once Stalin came to power.

get your b8post reddit shit out of here

Why haven't you killed yourself?

Remember to sage.

kill yourself lad

Stalin's "socialism" is not what i want. I want the workers to control the means of production.

OP refuses to answer height and weight question. Confirmed for either lanklet or tubtubz.

Because they are normally rather small.

Why do you keep ignoring questions?

I hate to "punch to the right" but have you read the communist manifesto? In theory a perfect communist country will have no state, and simply be a communal "take what you need gibs what you can" scenario where workers run the factory's.

Of course it's a retarded theory but you're makign us look bad.

How would a leader steal surplus labor?

Has your mother stopped abusing you?

And what do you think about free speech? fgt

Trips of godly truth

Because when you educate the workers they aren't uneducated anymore. Plus with a workers council planned economy running a company won't involve competing for profit making running a company much easier.

Do you look forward to the day that you, along with other useful idiots, will be lined up against the wall and shot after "normalization" has occurred (per Yuri), or are you in a delusional sort of denial?

I was never abused and I think freedom of speech is essential to a free society.

Will you answer the question? I know there is a a lot of shitposting to sift through, but i feel my question is legitimate.

Here

Answer my question please, I meant it seriously not sarcastically. I appreciate you coming into the lions den to attempt communication.

Oh, and to add to this - Marx calls for dictatorship while the world is taken over, then suddenly everything is communism. Everything is spread out, everything is the same, and everyone who disagrees is killed.

I don't know if a stateless society is possible. I'm thinking just a bunch of decentralized communes.

Fuck off attention whore. Also the mods ban anyone who isn't a NEETSOC so you're going to get banned.

*making

If communism is an abject failure, why will it work this time?

Employees generate more for the company then they are paid the rest goes to the leader therefore stealing the value generated by the workers.

The only reason you're trying to blame Stalin is because he wasn't a jew.

I think its time for the smug anime girls.

welcome to pol :D

Your dream is a lie.

Get out?

Because the united states is pretty strong.

Can you show the part of the communist manifest where it says that stuff please? I have read it and I don't remember that part.

How do you educate the workers to any competent degree without cutting into their work hours? And without removing them from their positions because in your system a mere brick layer is expected to have a solid grasp in advanced economics?

Go die in a fire.

Because this time we won't fall for giving the state control over everything an instead give the workers control.

>>>/oven/

Also, I am going to take your computer and give it to a slack-Jared, 3rd world nigger who will use it to pound cassava into flour, is that OK with you? Of course it is, to each according to his need, and that nigger really needs something to pound those cassavas with.

...

What would prevent this from being conquered militarily by either one of the communes or an outside force? What would prevent, assuming this is an area like Russia(basically same ethnic group in the majority of communes), from simply forming into one state.

Would there be a military or police? and what would prevent the leaders of this great collective from becoming tyrannical, or like stated above, simply conquering the other communes.

As we both know, humans crave order and authority, and a collective of hippy communes would not last long in the state which you imagine.

why are you guys so unfunny

Because now that they are only producing according to need and don't need to do more work just for the sake of profit they will work less hours.

Shit tier leninist tbh fam.

Sorry, meant for

Answer please

National socialism is the only time communism worked. and;s its the only one that isn't allowed to try 100 times

Here's a question: every time Communism has been attempted, what happens is:

1) The workers stop working on the communal farms because there's no incentive to do your best (Vietnam, 1980s)
2) Workers co-ops? lol j/k we State Capitalism now, gulags if you don't like it (Soviet Union)
3) CULT OF PERSONALITY (North Korea)
4) Let's destroy our entire history and replace it with… ? (China, Great Leap Forward)

Do you have any ideas as to how to stop these derailments of the Glorious Workers' Revolution? From what I've observed and read, these seem to be the inevitable results of attempts at Communism that start in good faith.

Can you answer the question in ? Your sad little shitpost doesn't negate stable other ideologies have been (besides anarchy?

Oh wait I guess you can't.

How do you stop this from happening?

mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/11/grand_rapids_worker-run_vegeta.html

Because I don't hate jews.

There's nothing to learn from a commie

answer this please

By having a democracy.

-What is your occupation?
-Does Communism allow Freedom of Association?
-Under Communism, how/who devides what labor is valuable and/or productive?

Do you feel bad about destroying China's culture?

Literally nothing in the ideology of National Socialism has anything to do with hating other ethnic groups.

What's to stop me kicking you in the dick so that you can't vote?

There is: how low people can sink and the mental gymnastics they use to justify both their actions and inactions.

I don't know. I don't think a stateless society can work.

Why are all leftists and Marxists fucking rich kids, 4 year colleges, rich parents and families, people with a lot of fucking time on their hands as opposed to actual working class. Such as:

Blue collar workers, trade school kids, actual labor workers, people with very little time to waste to create problems.

Not only are you idiots so called intellectuals who don't know what it's like to work 12 hour days on a farm 7 days a week, able to do your own plumbing, electrical, home/wood construction, metal working and machinery. But you fucking fail at being actual so called intellectuals and can't understand basic economics. I can do all that and understand economics and I still don't know why you fuckers are so stupid.

This implies the leader does nothing, which is not true. The leader directs the efforts and energies of the workers to a desired result. The leader also resolves problems as they arise with and/or between the workers. A good leader can also assist the workers when required.

The issue with every worker being a leader is that you have what I call "too many scientists and not enough hunchbacks". People are either leaders or followers. They can self-manage in small groups, but for world wide communism like marx calls for it just doesn't work. You would have to purge all leaders, and that would create issues with workers not having any direction.

This has happened every time communism has been implemented. The workers become directionless, and have no motivation to do anything. A leader will also motivate workers to continue working, and provide direction.

Also, communism:

At the end of the day, people have to provide some kind of value to society.

Yes. It sucks that China got kind of destroyed.

why are pro-unions inherently selfish

China was always shit. Dump related

FUCK CHINA
U
C
K

C
H
I
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A

Office worker

Yes but you can only form non exploitative relationships

The workers vote on that.

...

Not even needed. To be a commie fuck you first have to be burgeoise as fuck. Who else can truly understand the struggle of the working class?

What happens when the worker's union becomes the state like in some marxist theories? Are you still against that state?

Because they are kikes and/or kike lovers

...

Direct democracy is, like communism, a failure. Whats stopping 2/3 from voting for insane shit that will just fail?

You get your entire earning. So you don't have to give your stuff away.

Democracy is inherently flawed, it will never work except for kikes looking to subvert any society in question

Answer please

tbh it actually did, most of Europe during 1918-1920 had communist revolutions

Not a commie, but if you only let white male landowners 35 years of age vote it could work.

Again another commie fuck that hasn't read the Communist Manifesto

Page 26:

If this is true and the workers need a leader they could perhaps voluntarily elect a leader.

So are you more anarcho-syndacalist? That was what I found myself being back in the late 2000s.

Yeah work or starve. You can be self sufficient and not have to work for an employer or you can work for one. How you want to work is voluntary, but you will always have to work if you want to live.

Syndicalist but I'm not an anarchist.

Until they send someone to Washinghton to vote on an amendment to allow non land ownders to vote.

How will that prevent the state from taking control? Who will arbitrate the voting process?

You are also socially pressured to get a job ect.

Construction worker here.
Can I form a union that democratically keeps niggers at least 100 miles away from us?

Also, if the workers decide the value of the work, can I make a union of people who all agree that fucking your waifu is of value and we all do that for a living?

Can't do that. TRUE COMMUNISM (according to OP) forbids it.

Again page 26 of The Communist Manifesto

Re-posting my question for ease of answer.

What would prevent this from being conquered militarily by either one of the communes or an outside force? What would prevent, assuming this is an area like Russia(basically same ethnic group in the majority of communes), from simply forming into one state.

Would there be a military or police? and what would prevent the leaders of this great collective from becoming tyrannical, or like stated above, simply conquering the other communes.

As we both know, humans crave order and authority, and a collective of hippy communes would not last long in the state which you imagine.

you realize you are petit bourgeois and would be slaughtered by tyrone and jose were you ever to come to power
exactly the same as what happened in russia

I was talking about Mao.
That just sounds like feudalism, shithead. Also, none of those caps are related to the point in Chinese history I was referring to, which was the period of the three kingdoms.

You can do that but only if they want to do that.

Only if I want to pay you to fuck my waifu which would be weird.

so you are a statist against states, thinking a unionist council will resolve issues or what?

How can you be against immigration but also against what you call "identity politics" since being against immigration is by definition a part of what you could call "identity politics."

Why not? They're the ones who are behind using communism and its bad, free-floating ideas (which are based on Karl Marx's ideas–another jew, big surprise) as a tool of mass murder of intelligent individuals within a population and then enslaving the rest for their own benefit.

Also
You have to go back.

Lenin's belief was that there would be a full massive communist uprising in Europe, triggered by the Red Revolution, and that the Proletariat of Europe would lay the material foundations of Communism in Russia and the rest of the underdeveloped world.

That didn't happen.

Wouldn't it be exploiting me to force me to be near them?
You better let me fuck your waifu, fucking waifu-bourgeois.

I don't want the state to have complete control. I would like a minimal state to keep order but otherwise worker self management.

I fucking called it

They can do this now. And what does "the means of production" even mean in the knowledge economy of today? The problem is the class of people you are talking about has too low an IQ to make it work so you want a revolution that steals capital from people who know how to allocate it and give it to people who will just squander it. Check into those co-ops you are talking about. They are almost exclusively niche engineering firms made up of an almost entirely white male STEM educated staff. That kind of shit doesn't work with low IQ shitskins. This is what Americans don't get about "socialism" in northern Europe. You can make it work with an ethnostate, but it will never work when you are overloaded with low IQ 3rd worlders.

This thread reminds me of pic related. What a failure Holla Forums is.

Nope, the communist part *cough* HEAD UNION wouldn't like that.

In 50 words or less - how is "Leninism" different to all of the other forms of communism?

Not allowed in TRUE COMMUNISM

So you're a petit bourgeois? What gives you the right to make demands of the working class when you're not even involved in essential labor? You're just a white-collar pinko. They would probably kill you for being middle class in a communist revolution.

So if the coop fails then have the workers go somewhere else. Coops can't compete in capitalism because capitalist company's can fire people indiscriminately.

No, you can't. Even northern Europe had to bastardize it a lot by essentially running a mercantile or somewhat capitalistic system that "incorporated" some socialist concepts.

Communism, in a nutshell, is the insane idea that humans, even whites, could run entire nations without a hierarchy. Yet, Trump offers proof that we need hierarchy like fish needs water to accomplish anything beyond what niggers accomplish in their mud huts.

I like you. This is like listening to me from ten years ago hi little me! Is there an example state you can point to? I usually used the Spanish syndicalist collective during the civil war or the Ukrainian collective. Were there any collectives that lasted more than a few months near a Marxist-leninist collective?

Pick one

Do you know what bourgeois means? It means owning a company. I don't own a company so I'm not a bourg.

/thread

Only the intelligent bourgeois know how truly oppressed the proletarian scum are and how the proles should be controlled.

No, it means not being a laborer. You are not a laborer.

Re-posting my question for ease of answer.

What would prevent this from being conquered militarily by either one of the communes or an outside force? What would prevent, assuming this is an area like Russia(basically same ethnic group in the majority of communes), from simply forming into one state.

Would there be a military or police? and what would prevent the leaders of this great collective from becoming tyrannical, or like stated above, simply conquering the other communes.

As we both know, humans crave order and authority, and a collective of hippy communes would not last long in the state which you imagine.

ANONS, MAKE SURE TO SAGE THIS SHIT

THIS COMMIE'S ONE SENTENCE REPLIES ARE NOT constructive CONVERSATION

JUST GO TO Holla Forums AND POST THERE

I've done extensive research into the subject, the longest lasting anarchist state only lasted like two years and someone came and fucked them up. I believe it was in the Ukraine. And it only survived because it had a military general, which is technically against the ideology.

OH MY FUCKING

GAWD

are you a kike, or do you just not realize communism = literally the same religion the babylonian slaves had.

There were a couple. Pre-Pinochet Chile, Yugoslavia, Paris Commune a couple others.

What does it mean for the "worker" to control the means of production? Is it like in Chile, where the workers literally controlled the factories (no owners, everyone just does their job)? That lead to unsustainable practices, unsafe conditions, massive rip offs and nearly destroyed the factories. Meanwhile, 62% of american billionaires are self made - meaning they didn't inherent their money but rather earned it.
Countries that have a communist past generally look down upon wealth because in those countries, it was inherited through the state. Which meant oppressing the worker and being a dick to get muh party gibs. I just can't see how communism is actually good for the worker. It's a rotten deal.

His point still stands. You have a comfy fucking office job. You don't climb in attics in 100+ degree weather or working in below freezing conditions. You are a privileged pleb.

That isn't what it means at all, you stupid fucking faggot.

I don't know. There. Ask some ancoms. Perhaps everyone would be armed and be able to defend themselves. Or maybe people would be so happy due to post scarcity no one would have any reason to fight.

You're right that is a huge disadvantage. But people NEED to be fired. How do you address that?

Google it you fucking retard. Petit bourgeois means lower middle class. It's exactly what you are.

I've met some normalfags that spout some commie shit like "there is no private property" etc. They all have comfy office jobs, went through private school, have uni degrees (in the arts).

That's the one. Bolsheviks totally fucked every other group. Have you read Solzhenitsyn, Sinyavsky, or Mussolini? They have great thought on post Great war/Russian civil war socialist issues .

It's good practice, though.

There is no such thing as post scarcity especially in a commie country.

But Kurtzweil said we would be as gods!

They will produce according to needs so people won't have to work as much. If someone need to be fired then the coop votes to fire them.

PERHAPS HE WISHES TO EAT HIMSELF?

Construction worker here again.
So, I would consider myself pretty low on the pole of capitalism.
I spent 2 years digging trenches for minimum wage while homeless, but despite this, I still support domestic capitalism - why should I become a communist when, in modern standards, I have experienced worst shit than most of modern society?

Oops there's about 30 million dead from pre-Stalin communism lying on the floor there you seem to have missed.

bour·geoi·sie
ˌboorZHwäˈzē/Submit
noun
the middle class, typically with reference to its perceived materialistic values or conventional attitudes.
(in Marxist contexts) the capitalist class who own most of society's wealth and means of production.

Read that last part again.

It does exist in communist countries actually, it's caleld post-scarcity of food. :^)

from famine*

Sorry I'm just laughing so hard.

What makes you think that humans can run nations without a hierarchy?

You need to read you fuckwad. My original post said
PETIT BOURGEOIS

pet·it bour·geois
ˌpedē ˈboorZHwä,pəˌtē boorˈZHwä/
adjective
adjective: petit bourgeois

1.
of or characteristic of the lower middle class, especially with reference to a perceived conventionalism and conservatism.

Dude, you are bourgeoisie. You don't produce any labor.

If you produced labor, which is the means of production (production which you don't fucking do) then you would have control of it. Why don't you FUCKING GET A LABOR JOB?

Forget humans. I want him to name one animal that lives without a hierarchy.

Its in your own interest as you will be paid more because your boss no longer needs to be paid.

so apparently, its communism until things go to shit, then you blame the guy in charge and start over?

WEW

Petit bourgeois is a term used in marxist context to refer to people who own small company's.

How can the people perfectly predict what they need what if an emergency happens and what you produced for the week/month is ruined or someone needs something in dire emergency?

Just start using your Maddows learningcode, you blew your cover with that one.

Oh, so my definition is wrong but you used one from the same source to tell me I'm wrong? Topkek

Well there is a need for a surplus in case of emergency.

See

I'm sure you won't get taxed into starvation like all the other times communism has been tried though. Right? :^)

Good one.

How is it in my interest though? Wouldn't it be better for me to push myself to the top at everyone else's expense?

Yugoslavia was never Syndicalist. Allende was a good point of Maoist incursion in SA for two years, but then Peru and Colombia became the retreating point and methinks there was little actual economic success in that short period.

Why do all communists claim to want to help the proletariat when they have nothing but contempt for the actual proletariat? Why do communists want to place the means of production into the hands that they constantly say need to be educated?

Communism in a nutshell, people.

But how much surplus would you produce if you don't have a free market system helping you know how much to produce and buy without wasting?

Progressive income tax. You get taxed less. The bourgs get taxed more.

I'm talking about the transition system to communism. Socialism.

What are your (and Holla Forums's) thoughts on robots replacing large portions of the working class?

Example: YOU.

If they got taxed more for producing factories and other modern innovations why would they bother if it'd only hurt them?

What? I'm saying the exact opposite of that. I was mocking communism.

Actually do you have a throwaway account, commieanon? I would personally like to speak with you more.

I'm constructionanon.

Who decides how much everybody needs? Or what they need? Because people think they need just about fucking everything.

Then you're contradicting yourself here you say

Commies can't into free markets that's why they starve from wasting or under producing.

lol I wonder if its a uni account

I still want him to answer

The only way you could be any worse was if you were a NEET.

That said, a blue collar worker working in the comfiest conditions possible is still better than you on the day in which you worked with the least accommodations when it comes to talking about work and economics. I for one am a guy going through a welding course so I'm not a construction worker, but I still go through more than you simply because your worst potential physical injuries or health risks are either papercuts or accidentally dropping printers on your toes. Why are you an office worker and how does being an office worker make you think that you can be considered the same as other workers other than you simply not being your own boss?

How would Communism allow people to arm themselves, and to a degree that they can successfully fight off by outside forces? How are the needs for arms, ammunition, military hierarchy, and training met? How will Communism manage to allow for a functioning army, navy, or air force if needed? It is impossible for Communism to allow for more than just hunting game. How can Communism establish a "post-scarcity" society? Post-scarcity isn't even truly real, because there is a finite amount of resources and space available. People will also end up fighting even if there were infinite resources and space because some people will grow to dislike each other for some reason.

If anything you earn is to be redistributed without the choice to refuse redistribution, then you do not truly get your entire earning.

Additionally, since surplus means producing and doing more than necessary for subsistence, and you believe in having surplus, how can people be educated while also producing surplus given that you can't "educate" them within the same work hours?

Since I think OP will run away soon I'll just post the ten most applicable rules to any country. According to The Communist Manifesto.

Please rip it apart and/or laugh at it as you will.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production,

Wouldn't doubt it.

Do ya or do ya not have a throwaway?

Commies don't under shit about this.

How do you propose that a system of government/society be designed to protect against greedy assholes taking advantage of things to line their pockets? The exist in every system, and they will always utilize every loophole and every illegal trick they can to increase their personal power and net worth… so how are you going to stop it?

REKT

Communism is just an attempt by intellectuals to grab power. No more, no less.

Then there are the communist women.

Workers are idiots. That's why they're workers and not managers. If they knew what to do with the means of production they'd already be doing it. A dope with a 90 IQ will always be a dope with a 90 IQ. He will always make dumb decisions.

First of all, the state can barely teach people to read as it is, and they all know how to read themselves. You're asking them to teach something that they themselves can't understand (making good decisions).

Second, they can't be educated. You, as an intelligent person, don't understand this because you are able to pick things up no problem. I had this problem too. It's projection. We think most people learn the same way we do. Most people are fucking shit at learning, and you can pound shit into their heads day and night and they still won't grasp it. It's because they're just memorizing, not understanding. You can't teach understanding. They can't process large, complex patterns. They rely on memorized examples from the past, and that's painfully inadequate. Most people can't even figure out supply and demand, and that's already taught relentlessly. They can memorize the definition, and the names of the guys who wrote about it, but they will never have a visceral understanding. That's why they think a $15 minimum wage is a great idea with zero foreseeable downsides. They simply can't recognize the patterns. We're going to hand the keys of industry over to these people?

Succeeding in the world is like a game of chess. You need to recognize the patterns, and see several moves ahead, and see all the different outcomes of those moves. That's not something you can teach. You can teach people strategy, and get them to memorize patterns they've seen before, but if their brains don't have the ability to work out all those different patterns and possibilities on the fly then they're going to be shit at chess. You're not going to teach someone with an 80 IQ to be good at competitive chess. They don't have the capacity for it. They only see the simplest surface-level patterns.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. It's a free market, so if someone wants to open up a business where the workers own everything equally and make all the decisions together, they are free to do that. They can go ahead and prove me wrong.

communists don't understand incentives and why they matter, and why income hierarchy based on actual value added to society isn't necessarily bad. which is why national socialism was more appealing

You all also forget, a skilled laborer can go intu business for himself and OWN ALL OF THE MEANS OF HIS PRODUCTION. Huh, how about that?

You know until government comes to claim taxes.

I'm waiting for the little pussy to come back I fucking hate commie scum they are either manipulative or fucking stupid.

They don't last long in the hurt locker. This is no fucking uni safe space.

Communism is only an idea a jobless kike and his friend had one day

Debate

Why do you want to destroy the white race?

Because the means of production include the land itself as well as the shit that occupies space and must be on land, you need land and the concept of it, as well as the ownership of land or at least a non-collective authority to determine the owners or users of said land, otherwise at best it'll just be an idiotic first come, first serve scenario.

This is the only reason why they don't want bourgeoisie around: So "The community" takes your money instead

This is the pettiest form of "gibmedats" thinking, and given how little you actually own in a Communist system, what you can own is better off inherited rather than redistributed to a non-relative.

AKA "Fuck you if you want to leave".

Because ultimately Communists intend on leeching off of those wealthier than them. Outright getting rid of them is an ideal they hold, but effectively enslaving those who make more than them is the next best thing.

He's not gonna come back, Communists generally operate by doing driveby-tier astroturfing

Was the Red Terror a reaction to the White Terror?.
marxists.org/history/international/comintern/1st-congress/white-terror.htm

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