Is it finally the time to dump Firefox and its forks?

Now, Firefox has been making shitty anti-user decisions for YEARS, and they keep piling up. Removing the ability to disable javascript completely (and removing many settings in general). Anti privacy shit like pocket, google / yahoo as default search engines, and a bunch of unsolicited connections and other shit that requires huge scripts to disable (github.com/pyllyukko/user.js/). Removing support for many addons. It goes on and on.

Anyway...all Firefox forks are dependent on Firefox in the end. IceCat has a team behind it, I guess, but does not stray much from FF. It has many of the same issues. Waterfox is made by one guy? And Palemoon is the least worst, but still - it lacks support for many addons, and how long can it keep up with the security fixes and such? It will become outdated soon.

So what's the solution? Clearly, addons are essential, so meme browsers like netsurf or links are out of consideration. The other browser giant is Chrome, which spies on you, and apparently Chromium as well. It has many forks but the only one worth anything is Iridium, so I think that should be used. Regardless, time to throw Firefox and friends to the trash.

Attached: firefox_and_friends.png (398x402, 206.96K)

Other urls found in this thread:

spyware.neocities.org/articles/
webkitgtk.org/reference/webkit2gtk/stable/WebKitWebExtension.html
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600919
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856375

I'll try Qutebrowser soon, since it finally got something umatrix-like. I just hope it's not too painful to configure.

No it's not time because there's actually no good solution.
And there's no good solution because to make a browser nowadays is as enormous as making an operating system.

The reasons for that is because the W3C as be hijacked by mega corps and even if the W3C wouldn't be it wouldn't change anything as google find the way top spread a software as much as possible via the simple method of being like a virus and inserting itself (in exchange of cash) in the most popular downloaded software in existence (ccleaner, avast, etc...).

The only way to have a browser that freedom/privacy respecting, is popular, also working 99% on all websites is to have shitloads of money, have a team of 50 people who have at least read SICP, integrated a firewall like umatrix, and act the same way as google did to spread Google chrome.

This is not happening and will never happen except if god as mercy on us one day.

Also
Palemoon is shit and doesn't give a shit about freedom.
Waterfox is placebo.
Icecat needs cruelly more serious devs.
Mozilla needs to hang itself.
Anything based on chromium is botnet and can't be unboneted.

chingchong

That's one hopeful browser, and the other is Otter Browser. But we're putting hopes in a few people here. For now I'm staying with Iridium.

HOLY SHIT!

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I can probably get away with just a terminal browser once I finish my 8ch terminal client.

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So poor performance and licensing autism?

...

It's not a bad experience. If it can't run in a terminal web browser, it likely needs proprietary javascript anyways.

I really hate how everything is fucking javascript now. Markup language only please, no turing complete shit that I HAVE to load in order to use the fucking site.

Brave is the answer, my son.

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Isn't Brave closed source?

The problem is the web, not the browsers. If your site isn't usable on links, then it's shit.

Of course, there's not many "your sites" these days. It's all made using ready shit like wordpress, github, wikia or whatever. People don't even want to host IMAGES on their own server. Or even requiring a connection to google for fucking FONTS. What a joke.

You don't have to abandon it completely. Just experiment with other browsers like Links, w3m, Lynx and so on. They don't work on all sites, but most of them that require bloated browser aren't worth the trouble IMO.


Well do you want the content (text, and maybe some images) or do you want gigs of botnet?

What if the content is locked behind the botnet? I think they don't even do it on purpose since normies just have adblockers but don't block scripts, they just want to externalize the cost of site generation to the consumers.

Try to get the same thing some other way, like P2P or something. Or you can just find something else to download.

Whatever sucks about Firefox sucks in Chrome ten times as hard, Google.

No, no Chromium.

because cheap VPS have little storage, do you know about it?
and hosting from personal computer is not viable as it's trivially traced, and also because NAT everywhere.

Don't ISPs still offer webspace on their servers? Mine does at least, and you can even point a custom domain name to it if you really want. They let you have PHP and databases. Not that I want any of this shit though, I'd rather use Gopher.

It's been time to dump it for years now. We'll all do that as soon as you introduce an alternative that's at least as good.

it was time to dump firefox about 10 years ago. problem is all we have is links which doesn't work on all sites (this is by design, you need a super complicated product to view web pages so you can pay for antivirus or other feel good products to compensate for all the bugs induced by this)

qutebrowser is shit. all these browsers are just wrappers around the same dumbass "web" engines that have been around for 20 years. umatrix is just some meme. adblocking is a meme. if you actually cared about browsing you'd realize adblocker changs nothing and at worst adds more bug and lag

please go back to /g/

I've been using the Chromium fork Inox since it first came out, and it's treated me quite well. also it has an AUR package

Yeah, Mozilla is far less abusive than Google, but Firefox's UI has always seemed crusty and sluggish. I tried Quantum a while ago and it seemed to be a major improvement, despite the Rust meme. If Icecat ever incorporates Quantum I will switch without hesitation.

There needs to be a common browser extension platform that works across multiple browsers. I hate Firefox for making Poettering shit mandatory, as well as the whole Cliqz, Riseup, and Looking Glass shit they did. However, I don't want to use a browser without support for Noscript, Decentraleyes, uBlock Origin, *insert cookie deleter here*, a vim keybinds extension, and so on.
There's a bunch of meme Loonix browsers out there running WebKitGTK or QtWebEngine that look cool and relatively lightweight, but they support literally no extensions outside of maybe a poor-quality adblocker. If there was a complete, universal, cross-platform browser extension system, you could use whatever the fuck you wanted, and bring all your favorite privacy tools with you.

No.
Stop spreading FUD.

it's not mandatory. You can compile it with ALSA, or use apluse.so

People need to stop catering to lusers and start making programs for actual knowledgeable people. Make a browser for programmers that is fully programmable so that it can become the Emacs of browsers. Wrap around blink and V8 and make it do all the heavy lifting.

That's effectively only a viable option on gentoo.

GENTOO WINS AGAIN
ARCH FAGS ON SUICIDE WATCH

I'm as far from a Google shill as possible. But Iridium has a team behind it dedicated to maximizing your privacy. And Firefox has nothing like that.

Of course all browsers suck in the end, but we have to use something. Addon requirement leaves only two choices - Firefox based or Chrome based, and the latter wins.

There's not really a great, simple solution, but there's a few steps in the right direction. I think it's unfortunately necessary to have one "suck" browser on a system for most people, just to be able to do banking, pay bills, access work/university related websites, etc. This can really be anything, though I prefer firefox because at least it's FOSS. For everything else, I think the solution is to go more simple. Link2 in graphical mode, dillo (which I'm posting from), things like that. Streamlight or smtube for video streaming. Use a hosts file to block ads. Keeping js disabled is the best way to stay safe online.

Really? Link? Pretty neat if true.

Please share your project once you finish, I and I'm sure others would be quite interested in that.

No, it's FOSS. And despite what some think, I don't really think it's botnet either. I'm just wary about it. Can't shake a gut feeling that it's just not a great solution.

If you're too much of a brainlet to compile Firefox, install libpulse. It's a tiny package on most distros to circumvent installing the full pulse.

javascript.enabled;0
literally who?
malware, pajeetware, skidware, and hardly brings any benefit
firecox and all it's forks have:
-a "delete cookies on exit" option
-ctrl+shift+del to clear cookies
-network.cookie.cookieBehavior;2
also be sure to have
-network.http.sendRefererHeader;0
unfortunately you have to set it back to 1 or 2 to post on 8ch. still better than installing some more cancer on top of your cancerfox fork though

Another thing on my fix up list before release is proper unicode support. My current support is brainlet their. I print a character and then check what the position of the cursor is. I know how to properly do it now, so it's just a matter of doing it.

So, basically uzbl/luakit/qutebrowser then?

I still obviously need some amount of JS for sites to function. Noscript gives granular control of that.
"Protects you against tracking through "free", centralized, content delivery. It prevents a lot of requests from reaching networks like Google Hosted Libraries, and serves local files to keep sites from breaking. Complements regular content blockers."

"Websites have increasingly begun to rely much more on large third-parties for content delivery. Canceling requests for ads or trackers is usually without issue, however blocking actual content, not unexpectedly, breaks pages. The aim of this add-on is to cut-out the middleman by providing lightning speed delivery of local (bundled) files to improve online privacy."

It's Free Software licensed under the GNU General Public License
prove it.
it blocks ads. I consider that a benefit.

kys

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PHP can suck my dick
also we don't trust our ISPs
so this is not a solution

Does this extend to the Tor Browser Bundle?

WebExtensions is what you describe. If only it wasn't such a crippled piece of shit.

PHP was just an example, they got other scripting stuff too. I just have no interest whatsoever in making web sites of any kind, so I'll never use it.

of course not, that's always been a priority tor feature

Yeah, I had an idea kind like that for a browser. Literally everything would be a plugin. From typical plugins to graphical elements to the engine. Everything. The only problem is I'm a pajeet tier programmer and couldn't even figure out how to get started.

Why not go the qutebrowser route using qtwebkit?

surf also has per domain like umatrix by the way. Just in case you want to avoid webengine cancer(replaced by webkit cancer).

Qupzilla.

Yeah WebExtensions sounds like the future. I just wish browsers like Qupzilla (now called KDE Falkon) or Midori supported them.

I use Qupzilla and I didnt know that.

They considered Kitsune (fox) which sounds much better and even starts witk K like other KDE stuff.

All I want is to view images and text, maybe the occasional video(but I can do that on MPC anyways).

Pale Moon is fine, although a old-style furry dev (and him putting Ad Nauseum on the not recommend add-on list) might triggers some people.

If you want something closer to newer Firefox (and thus more "newer" add-on compatibility, try Basilisk.

Take into account though, that most "new" addon versions for FF were made due to the browser breaking stuff with each update and not necessarily of improved features for the addon itself.


Should have gone with that at least. Falkon sucks, Qupzilla was better.

The morons who don't know how to set extensions.blocklist.level to 3 aren't worth listening to anyways. They're just looking for something to complain about.

use webkit or qt to write one yourself, it's not as hard as you think, you aren't reinventing the wheel because webkit/qt does all the work but you should retain good control over privacy settings.

except performance, chromium is atleast 50% faster than firefox.

not anymore, pozjew is just as bad if not worse than chromium.
sign in so we can datamine and sell everything you do - check
webext locked down so all webext requires a kosher stamp - check
datamining telemetry by default - check
option to install botnet voluntarily (not even chromium does this) - check
datamining even if telemetry is disabled (google telemetry on addons page) - check
atleast with chromium you get performance.

webext

gentoo disables the data choices tab on pozjew, the only way to disable telemetry is by hand in about:config.
webkit and qtwebengine both support webext (though arguably webengine is essentially chromium).

qutebrowser has a pozzed CoC and is just a front-end for QT, do it yourself and so no to the Poz

native messaging solves this, but it's a pain to setup and for the user to install, (you have to put shit in the registry in windows), the user is going to have to use and your going to have to create a seperate installer and link to it from inside the webext (i don't even think you can link to it from the webext and make any attempt to automate the process and still get your kosher stamp from mozilla/google).
native messaging is essentially:
webext->json->stdin->(your program)->json->stdout->webext

it's not run in any VM or jail or anything, it should have full access to everything.

Most browsers are shit anyways. Be it webkit or something.
How did I know?
Set up a server yourself, try to make that said server LOG itself on how many requests are made on it (or use an IP logger)
You'll see most browsers show 2 requests or even more. You can see your IP then another IP from Mountainview CA - I guess you already know what company lives there. On other browsers it's using MacHomOSeX - they're probably another spy agency but you should already know that nothing is safe and if you still religiously do think its safe then you're stupid and there's no cure for stupidity.

All are botnet
chrome botnet
furryfox botnet but tries hard not to be
firefox botnet soros-sjw-backed
torbundle botnet suffers the above
icecat is like furryfox but lazier
other "insert web engine rebrand" are all shit and very low on opsec (fingerprintable) while most of them suck google's dick (mountainview ca on logs)
since everything is botnet the only way to save yourself is to implement a botnet yourself.
try rat-ing a wangblows noobs or some company if you want a 9-5 stable connection and routing all your request in there.
If you can't beat the botnet, be the botnet.
HH

You get it. I actually did these tests a long time ago. And I checked not only requests made at the start, but also while visiting the new tab pages for example. Some requests appear only once a day. Firefox, Icecat, Palemoon, Vivaldi, Opera, Slimjet all spy on you.

Some of the results are on this website: spyware.neocities.org/articles/ (not mine but was submitting articles). I wanted to submit more but the guy stopped caring about the project so I did as well. Might make my own with a better format.

>spyware.neocities.org/articles/
this is pretty good effort

Oh, great. Yet another stupid browser shill thread. At least post the obligatory infograph.

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Shit site.
But I'm interested about discoveries you made; by that I mean "features" I can't disable or disable easily.

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again, I really hope this gets supported on QtWebEngine and WebKitGTK browsers

it is, atleast with GNU/webkit, i can't find anything about it with Qt
webkitgtk.org/reference/webkit2gtk/stable/WebKitWebExtension.html

I was using PINE for email as late as 2005. Never tried this place in lynx, but I have a new linux box I need to test... hmm...

That's something different, entirely unrelated to WebExtensions as in Chromium/Firefox extensions.

Yup, site is shit. I suggested some more modern look to the creator but he ignored it. And now it's dead.

Anyway, from my tests IceCat is 90% the same as Firefox, so forget about it. Palemoon upon its first run connects to its first run page (you can't avoid it), and that has google ads and pixel trackers from rubiconproject. THen it connects to its start.me page which makes 120+ different requests. These include google ads of course, google analytics, twitter ads, "scorecardresearch", again pixel trackers, and a bunch of other trackers. You end up with 47 different cookies just from this, many of which contain unique IDs which will probably track you again anytime you visit the palemoon website. Also the requests tell the sites where it came from, so they know you're a palemoon user.

Some of the usual firefox issues also apply, like downloading automatically a blocklist of addons, and others.

I have to make that website after all, I guess.

Abandoning the only decent browser left just because it has some options that are easily worked around in a couple of minutes when you first run it?

Holy crap, Holla Forums. Fuck you.

It's not only that and you know it.

you should get off your knees and then remove the poz from your browser if you want people to like it again.

graphic is shit
No changes:
Disabled Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) by default
Disabled Web Runtime (deprecated as of 2015)
Removed Pocket
Removed Telemetry
Removed data collection
Removed startup profiling
Allow running of all 64-Bit NPAPI plugins
Allow running of unsigned extensions and full add-ons
Removal of Sponsored Tiles on New Tab Page
Addition of Duplicate Tab option (toggle with browser.tabs.duplicateTab, thanks to PandaCodex)
Locale selector in about:preferences > General (further improved by PandaCodex)
Cookie Prompt see image

This, anyone who regards waterfox being the same as firefox (or with simply minimal difference) is an idiot.

kys

Does anyone know if Brave calls home to google? I've heard that chromium does this, which is what Brave is based on.

You can only run IceCat on Linux... doesn't help mainstream adoption. You're supposed to support winblows and hackintosh but slowly nudge users to the libre way with subliminal and over messaging.

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Wow. It's amazing how blatantly wrong a person be about such obvious things while literally sitting right in front of a computer.

You're right. I hate these stupid browser threads since the differences between browsers is so trivial and it distracts from the real points, but, for the record, I wrote that before the Quantum switch. Yes, I know those features existed pre-Quantum--the compiler optimizations were sort of a red herring that distracted me from the parts of it that were actually worthwhile. I considered writing a new graphic that was less stupid, but then I realized that browser discussions among stupid laymen who will cling to any minor, impertinent technical flaw to dismiss your bigger arguments is a bit like being Sisyphus of your own volition.

Pale Moon is working just fine for me. What's the problem?

Test it yourself? It probably does for certificates, safe browsing and google search auto complete at least.

...

...

That by definition can't have low-level access to browser innards (since these are different in every browser) and therefore can't do anything interesting. An ad blocker might be possible with proper hooks provided, but forget about interface hacks like Vimperator.
We already have WebExtensions and they're shit for exactly this reason.

NPAPI

Because it's so hard to patch a PKGBUILD. Retards.
You both deserved to be off by one. Kek hath spoken.

They seem to be doing a good job though. We got adblockers, vim keybind addons, umatrix, and pretty much all my other privacy addons. I used to be really skeptical of webextensions, but they don't seem THAT bad.

Link me to the official binary releases for Windows and Mac. The mainstream users won't bother compiling.

mainstream users can't compile unless they install development software which they won't

about:config - javascript.enabled - false
Is open source, can be disabled, is removable from the source.
The large majority doesn't use anything other than Google. They default to Yandex in Russia and Baidu in China. If you ask me the only thing they should change is make Qwant the default for EU countries.
This can be changed, can be changed in the source code.
They didn't do such thing. They changed to a better engine and have the devs 3 years to port addons. If your shitty addon isn't supported then it wasn't good to begin with or it was abandoned anyways.

How is this an argument?
Iridium depends on chromium. Here, I'm turning your argument against you. Blink/WebKit is a significantly worse engine when it comes to features and privacy, so by default Firefox is better than any chromium browser if that's your concern.

USE CYBERFOX

FFS, Holla Forums.

Isn't it abandonware?

why are you still using Firefox,
the devs sold their souls years ago

Interesting how you didn't respond to the hundreds of unsolicited connections Firefox makes.


Of course, you can even make your own browser that way, but then it's not "Firefox" anymore. So I'm judging it by the DEFAULTS, and the defaults are terrible.

Why are you still shilling for this turd?

I'm confused. Are you somehow mad that it doesn't support this piece of shit obsolete-out-of-the-gate format?

I'm mad that he actively went out if his way to support that proprietary google crap. Remember:
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600919
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856375