Who was in the wrong here(s)?

Rorschach is only Watchmen most people can get behind. I remember reading Moore didn't understand or intend for that.

Yeah, he wanted to portray Rorsach as some right wing nut job who everyone would write off. But the other characters in the book are cucks, sluts, sociopaths, or literal inhuman robots (Jon's like r9k on god mode) of course people would admire the guy who sticks to his principles.

I don't care what the context, or situation is. Dr. Manhattan is always wrong. Checked.

Not hard to see why. People love Rorscrach because he's the only one who acts like a superhero in a cast of neurotic has-beens, which kinda misses the forest for the trees in a story where superheroics are considered a joke alongside the looming threat of WW3

The other Watchmen were willing to accept a false peace constructed around a conspiracy. Rorschach was the only one who cared about truth, and there is no philosophy or religion greater than truth itself.

But he knew that the truth would break the tenuous world peace that Ozymandias had created, he couldn't compromise, he couldn't live in the world that the altruistic Ozymandias had created, a world built on a lie, where the greatest evil had accomplished the greatest good, but he couldn't risk a nuclear war, so he took the only way out.
In that lies the core of the story, it was Moore's statement on Objectivism and moral absolutism, and the entire scenario was designed to break Rorschach.

The vietnam fucking shit was wrong. Should have gotten an abortion before pregnancy wrecked her looks.

Everyone. I think that was the point.

Isn't Rorschach the ultimate fedora tipper?

One thing that's interesting about Rorschach is that he believes there's no objective morality, no cosmic justice, but he acts as if there is anyway, because the alternative is horrible.

For not believing in God? Or for actually wearing a fedora?

What looks?

Well going by the principle of God not interfering Free Will he wasn't wrong even from a religious standpoint. He could be devout and make the same statement. Not really fedora tipping at all.

I always took that as a condemnation of the type of people that cling to the idea of god's plan or the power of prayer.

Or he's just saying what he literally believes. That's the kind of stuff people cite for being atheists. My mom fell out of religion when she had her first child, who was born with cleft lip and palate, and had to go to a children's hospital and see all the little kids dying of horrible shit all the time.
'Terrible shit happens so God doesn't exist and even if he does he's not worth believing in' isn't necessarily fedora tipping, it's just the average belief of any atheist. Though Rorschach comes off as more of an agnostic with how he words it.

His morality is independent of his religious beliefs. No compromise, even in the face of Armageddon. Facing down God, he found God wanting.

What greatest good? Is was a half-peace that wleft the cultural conflict between capitalism and communism unfinished and lead humanity to stagnate.

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair.

the hell's up with these pictures?
why is comedian's dialogue coming from manhattan?

Rosarch was meant to be the one guy who spoke out about everything no one liked, but because he had an actual personality as opposed to the rest of the characters, he was the most memorable.

I think it would be the opposite.

Once a proper examination of the "alien" occurs, there's no reason to believe that it wasn't faked. A lack of nonterrestrial DNA combined with its impossible anatomy would quickly reveal it to be a synthetic organism. Ozy might have put a cold war on hold, but his destruction of New York would have crippled the American economy with Wal Street not existing and the government being forced to spend billions on reconstruction.

Worse still, it would make America seem weak, inviting conflict in the parts of the world where threat of US military action protects our allies. We would have to engage in several small conflicts across the globe, and Russia would get involved because they are probably backing any anti-American factions. Tensions would escalate, and Russia would try to push its advantage over the weakened United States.

I'm of the opinion that Ozy's actions would have guaranteed WW3. If he wanted an alien threat to work, he should have dropped it in some neutral country during a heavily televised sporting event.

Samefag.

It probably wouldn't have come across as a synthetic organism. It'd be odd enough for scientists to write it off as what it was, alien. If only because it was near incomprehensible

Alan Moore is a Lefty who buys the Lefty Narrative that the Cold War was about "fear" and "distrust" with the Soviets being either Dindu Nuffins or at worst no worse than America. Of course he'd have the SU totally push for peace insteae of takikg advantage of American weakness.

Except that's exactly what the Soviet Union fucking did in the book, invade Afghanistan and then Pakistan while Dr Manhattan fucked off to Mars. Did you even read it?

This is probably why the alien, in addition to wrecking shit, gave off psychic backlash.

I think the implication was that the peace was tenuous at best, least of all because the papers, having nothing to publish at the end, opted to publish Rorschach's completed journal which details the entire conspiracy.

The alien thing is so nonsensical all around I have to write it up as some kind of commentary on contrived comic plots. What the book implies will happen and what logically probably would happen are two very different things. The jarring thing is that Night Owl goes along with it with no fucks given, like it's so obvious that this airtight plan can't possibly fail, even though he was basically laughing at it not five minutes earlier.

Apparently Doc M was fated to do all kinds of things that made no sense in spite of having foreknowledge. That's not how predestination usually works.

Book learning is for the weak.

That's exactly what it is. The alien thing was literally created by the same writer who wrote Tales of the Black Freighter, the in-universe comic book

In such a scenario, I think the most likely response is the Soviets would assume the Americans were behind it and the Americans would assume the Soviets were. That could easily escalate tensions further.

What if Ozymandias had just let America win? If he could make teleportation happen, there's no reason why he would have to use something as complicated as a giant psychic squid, he could just send bombs.

If he teleported a bunch of bombs into the buildings of every Russian who would be authorized to launch nukes, they would have literally no idea what was going on. The buildings and people would explode, Russia would be in chaos, and America wouldn't have anything to stop them from bringing capitalism to the world.

That would require a tremendous amount of intelligence on the Soviets. Considering America could just swing its giant blue nuclear-powered dick around in Watchmen's world, I doubt the cold war was as characterized by large-scale espionage like it was in real life.

Why does Jon even care?
In the end, Jon executes Rorschach because he was going to expose veidt, but why does Jon even care enough to do it? It's show before that he barely cares if people die because of his action/inaction (with the pic in the OP, where he doesn't stop Blake), so why does Manhattan care at all to kill Rorschach? He has no motivation to do it, plus even if he didn't kill Rorscharch, who would believe the criminally insane guy who runs around in a mask? Made no sense to me and seemed pretty forced tbqh.

Did you gloss over his conversation with Silk Spectre on Mars? His feelings on mankind changed when he realized that even a gook-killing rapist like The Comedian could father someone like Laurie. Why do you think he even bothered coming back to try and stop Veidt?

The right-wing newspaper that he mailed his journal to right before he and Nite Owl set off to Antarctica? Though, there is the matter of whether they could even decipher Rorscrach's entries…

Why wouldn't they be able to? His journal is what we read throughout the entire comic

I don't know why so many people assume that The New Frontiersman publishing Roschach's journal would affect anything. It's a marginal publication with a small readership who are regarded by everybody else as paranoid, racist nutjobs. It's basically Watchmen's version of the John Birch Society's newsletter or the LaRouche Report. The mainstream media would ignore it or mock it. Most people who heard "Veidt did the Space Squid" would be offended or treat it as a joke.

After Rorschach's arrest, it's noted by the police that the journal is either a cypher or filled with illegible handwriting. There's no reason to believe that the copy he picked up from his apartment and subsequently mailed to the New Frontiersman is any different.

Except there is, because he says in dialogue that the police only picked up a rough draft. What he sends to the New Frontiersman is the completed journal

Moore never states that it's a marginal publication. It's advertised on big billboards which a marginal publication wouldn't be able to afford

This sentence and idea is incredibly retarded, you're redeemed because your offspring wasn't shit like you?

It's literally made by two guys out of a crummy office. And one of them's just a moron assistant. It's clearly a small press publication.

In his last entry, he writes "Have done best to make this legible." The envelope he sends it in has "Urgent" written plainly on the front, and it gets delivered to the right address. If he couldn't write legibly, the post office wouldn't have known where to deliver it. And when it gets to the Frontiersman, Seymour reads the first entry just fine.

He's not impressed by your white knighting, leftypol.

We already knew you had no argument.

The office you're talking about is in New York City. The same New York City that was mostly destroyed by the space squid. Furthermore, you're talking about the end of the book, where newspapers might be conceivably downsizing anyway seeing as, like the Editor-in-Chief mentions, there's nothing to write about any more.

Moore presents The New Frontiersman as the paper that half the country reads in the rest of the book and there's no reason to think it would be any different by the end of the book.

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The revelation for Jon was that Sally and Eddie, despite their history, actually felt genuine affection for each other and made love, resulting in a woman who, at least for a time, loved Jon and was loved by him.

They have a street-level billboard in the slums. Hardly a sign of great prosperity.

It's presented as a fringe paper with a small readership. It doesn't sell many copies at the newsstand; Bernard appears to only keep one for Rorschach. It gets no respect from other news sources or the general public. Even those who respect Godfrey's writing probably take the contents of the crank file with a grain of salt.

At the end of the book, the Frontiersman is struggling due to censorship of anti-Russian opinions. Normal newspapers appear to be getting by just fine.

It bummed me out that the movie version didn't include Osterman's line, "The light is taking me to pieces."

The movie was better if only because it left out the retarded space squid

Oh the spite

archive.is/oUWnp

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Digits of truth.

Despite me ticked about how much they cut and mangled Rorschach's prison discussions, the blaming of Jon instead of SPESS SQEED as the peace plan was so much more cohesive and actually made much more sense for it being able to actually work, that it's one of the few movies I'd say was better than the book.

It didn't detail the entire conspiracy though. Only everything he knew prior to leaving for Antarctica. I'd prefer it was otherwise, but I doubt it would be enough to convince people to see through the peace, especially since Ozzy was still alive and able to run interference on any investigation or even do counter rumor action.

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No it didn't. Firstly, the space squid was never supposed to work, that's the point of it and secondly, the Russians are less, not more, likely to make peace with the Americans if they think that Dr Manhattan, a US Government controlled agent, has attacked their territory. They wouldn't give a shit that he supposedly also attacked American soil, they would still hold America responsible for his actions.

You've got to keep in mind that Post-Communist Russia can't even agree with America to take down ISIS, a common enemy. The relationship between the two countries is incredibly complex and nowhere as simplistic as Snyder's idiot mind seems to think it is.

Whether it's a marginal publication or not is completely irrelevant. Somebody reads it. Somebody believes it. The fact that these readers are 'paranoid, racist nutjobs', probably with guns, is even worse. Rorschach's given them a target to point their guns at and just cause to point them at him, seeing as Ozymandias actively killed over a million Americans. Add this to Ozymandias' own self doubt as to whether or not what he did was right, as well as the fact that if the authorities dared to look closer at the remains of the Space Squid they'd see it's not what they think it is, what you've got is a very tenuous peace at best. Intentional or not, what Moore is basically saying is that doomsday is inevitable.

The squid was deliberately a ridiculous idea, the creation of a man who, despite his overwhelming intellect, was still such a sperg he couldn't even pull off an international conspiracy that changed the political balance and rewrote human culture, without wearing a superhero costume and couching the entire thing in terms of the lurid pulps he mentally turns everything into. This is like Chris-Chan getting the powers he has in his comics and forcing the world to conform to his obsessions, Ozymandias just LARPed the planet.

Rorschach was right and that completely justifies his hypocritical actions where he acts like the scum he so swears to fight REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I'm not blaming Rorschach, he never said he was better than anyone, I blame you faggots.

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