If race is a spook...

What's the point if the point is bullshit? Fun?

Sure. My understanding is that race = ancestry, that the different races have certain characteristics, and that people feel better in homogeneous societies as they feel a better connection to people with more similar DNA to themselves.

Why is this bull shit?

It doesn't matter in a communist world if people decide to live around people that match them ethnically, if that's what they want then they can do so.

The point is to let people decide.

Having an 'ethno-state' derived from non existent traditions and pointless ethnic division, however, is very backwards, not at all communistic, and a sure fire way to work towards making people tribalistic towards other humans for no reason. You are basing your state on a spook rather than material conditions.

Is Shinto Japan's emperor worship "non-existent"?
Is the Jewish belief that they're chosen by God "non-existent"?

I think you made the wrong choice of words. The traditions exist, it's what they're based on that's questionable.

Just….stop

Read Zizek

Fuck off. We're asking questions, not demanding you convert to our way of thinking.

I left out all types of leninists and marxists, they have a special place in my heart.

What do you mean they want to?

Like if the homogeneous people vote for that they can homogeneous? What about the votes from foreigners who want to be in their society? Do those count or not count?

Which books in particular?

You're right, I didn't mean traditions don't exist.

I meant that what the traditions are based on do not exist.

I actually have no problem with traditions, but I wouldn't base a state or ideology around them.

Ideally I suppose the people that wanted to live around certain ethnicities would set up a community to do such a thing.

If you are after a country like the USA where you can kick out all blacks and Mexicans then I think you are shit out of luck.

But whites are the majority of the USA and they can indeed vote to form ethnic homogeneous society if they decide to.

Or, y'know, just keep the inlands as white as they already are

Because it's not true.

Or not, voting is democracy and is majority rule.

If a majority votes to kick the black out of their neighborhood, then that's the community's decision and should be respected, no?

Good talk.

Majority of the planet is nogs. Assuming nation-states are abolished, what rights would people in white Nebraska have over people in large black Baltimore?

So basically, only the blacks get to decide.

Gotcha.

You could do that in communities where a majority voted for it. Nations won't exist in communism, so you could go by neighbourhood or city size area.

I still think you are shit out of luck, with the reality of it happening in a communist world. In socialism perhaps, if there was that much support for it, but there's not that much support for it even now.

That isn't what I said at all!

Shit out of luck in what way?

The majority will not vote to kick the minority out, or that they cannot get to vote?

Why would a particular economy cause people to stop having ethnic in-group preference?

You said the majority of the planet are nogs.

If they immigrate elsewhere and become a majority in that place, who's for the minority white to decide anything?

Wanting a homegenous ethno-state is a spook. So is wanting diversity for the sake of diversity.

The only non-spooky option is to not care, so dont be an identitarion one way or the other way.

The whites would have say in places like a white town/city/village, but not places like Detroit.

If you care, what would happen to you in a communist society?

And if they blacks move to the white town/city/village and become the new majority there?

There is literally *nothing* to the human condition besides economics

sage

They would be unable to as the whites would vote to keep them out. If the whites do not vote to keep them out, then they are retards and there isn't much to be done about it tbh. Like what are you supposed to do if people vote for their own extinction?

How? The whites just become a minority in their own land.

Their votes wouldn't matter because there are more blacks than whites, suddenly.

I do not think you understand what I'm saying.

Nice spook.

I don't think you understand mine.

If suddenly, a million (no, just a thousand) of nogs move into a white village of 750 people.

That 750 white people just lost that village, fair and square through democracy.

The worst cancer here is the fact that even after being told that there is no such thing as a nation or state in communism, they still try to push the idea of ethnonationalism EVEN UNDER It, while ignoring the conditions that make nationalism arise in the first place.

In short, kill yourself.

Yeah, now if people want to be ethnic homogeneous, they can't even be that way.

Such is communist paradise.

Reality itself is the the biggest spook of all

They wouldn't fucking be able to if the 750 whites vote to keep them out!

So like DNA and cultural differences?

Yeah man, people will have desires which are rooted in a specific mode of production under a completely different one. Yeah, nationalism is totally compatible with communism.

How? The 750 people can vote, and they would lose against a 1000 votes by the nogs.

I don't think you can get this.

Oh boy, so who's going to enforce that nationalism will not arise in communism?

Ah the good old rightist idealist belief that things arise out of pure magic with no regard for context.

The 1000 don't live there, they do not get a vote. You retarded ass.

But they just did, they just move there.

Are we going to have citizen registration now?

Context being: some nationalists will still exist under communism, and they will decide to form nationalist society.

What are you going to do?

Why would inherent racial in-group self-preference disappear without capitalism? Why do you think capitalism is the only cause? People formed separate groups even in hunter-gatherer times and societies.

kill them

Something akin to it. Do you think we'll just abolish all forms of documentation?

Oh boy under whose army?

I thought we were going with state-less society and freedom of movement, user.

So you're using violence to prevent the forming of ethnic enclaces, because it would take violence to enforce their existence?

God commies proving themselves wrong right in this thread,

Execution. A communist society should purge reactionary elements that attempt to turn back on what has been achieved.

You can try to pull more magical events out of your ass, but they won't happen just because you want them to.

I was not going with freedom of movement, I was going with democratic control of small scale territory such as neighborhoods or cities.

But the homogenous societies would be an achievement that reactionary internationalist would be turning back to the 20th and early 21st century periods of multicultural integrationism

Check mate, atheists

Well meme's 😁😁😁👌👌👌

Tell me the difference between economics and material conditions.

you are the one that should be fucking off stormfaggot

Just for this rude comment I'm gonna make this my new chan hang out

Enjoy your stay.

It becomes a problem for me when i this ethno state denies me building relationships with who i want or persecute people i love in the name of a racial purity. Just like forcing me to get along with people i don't like for the sake of Diversity is a problem. Any kind of spooked people will go after me sooner or later.

We call them 'boards'

So is Communism.

Read Stirner

Because there would be no qt brown grills for me to fuck.

Isn't Stirner a reactionary of some sort?

I did and he said things that don't exist outside the minds of its believers are spooks. He also said the believers would defend their spooks violently, just like Communists defend Communism all the denying that it has ever existed outside of their minds.

No, he's nothing. He's just Stirner.

He made Marx so fucking butthurt that he wrote a whole book dedicated to refuting him, but it changed Marx's views from idealism to materialism, creating the core of Marxist philosophy…, gg Stirner.

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sage

You in particular are shit out of luck because by the time communism rolls around human society will have developed in such a way that people will not care about dividing themselves up along ethnic lines. People will have no need to do so.

Because communism is a stateless, moneyless society where the means of production are owned in common, and are used to produce for the entirity of humanity. It is only possible after society has developed beyond class divisions, and in turn, most other man made divisions will have no affect on a person either. To be honest this is many hundreds of years in the future, achieved through a socialist state (sorry anarchists). The societal development includes leaving behind many backwards ideas about race and hierarchy, that have no basis in science, only in tradition, ignorance or desperation. The human mind is a product of it's environment, in a communist world the mind of a human will be very different to the mind of someone born into 2016 during global capitalism. Capitalism shapes our minds in a multitude of ways beyond just 'profit is good', and actually shapes all our lives physically and mentally. The economic system we live under determines thought.

You should read up or watch some lectures on historical materialism; it's very interesting to see how humanity has changed.

Are you saying that Communism would deny me freedom of association?

Well I don't think that's true, and in general I think blank slats is nonsense, but I suppose I could read up more on histomat.

Furthermore, people's values are different according to what culture they develop in, even within our current system. Yet certain themes do persist across humanity, and certain differences between groups seem very static

It doesn't matter. However, in the real world outside of Aryan utopia fantasies, ethnically homogeneous states are uncommon. Even Western Europe has native ethnic minorities like the Basque people.

The problem with conservative racial politics is that they want to preserve a national status quo that does not exist. American white nationalists are seemingly mentally incapable of understanding that black citizens are literally as American as they are by heritage.

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Western Europe "nations" are made up of people that even 100 years ago by-and-large hated each other, considered each other different "races," and had centuries of enmity and rivalry between each other.

"ethnically homogeneous states" have always been a fantasy.

A lot of us view WASPs as the only "true Americans" with the other groups here just being a deracinated white mass "Americans by birth" rather than by ethbicity.

No. Not at all. I just spent several posts previous explaining that there was nothing stopping you if you wanted, however 'you' and everyone else on this planet will be dead by the time communism arrives; a new human society not based on ideas of class division or racial differences, and the humans that inhabit that society will be created without such desires like 'wanting to create a divided ethnic state. All of that is assuming it happens, but the question is like asking 'what will happen to all the neo Nazis in a communist world, will we let them do whatever they want and receive the benefits of communist production?' You could say: a) yes let them have whatever it doesn't matter, or b) no, there won't be any Nazis because man will have changed his mode of thinking to develop into a communist world in the first place.

Different races are real, races do exist, hatred between races exists, racial stereotypes are based on real occurrences, people of similar races often get on better within communities of their own race, but apart from there actually being races, none of those are anything separate from what human society has created and has the ability to change. It's not 'real' in the sense that they are universal rules that define us, rather than we define and create them.>>882604

I'm sorry sometimes I find it hard to express myself easily.

Of course. I'd consider these small differences within similar patterns. This divide has only gotten smaller with the advent of global capitalism, and is only ever going to continue shrinking if we continue down a socialist path towards communism.

So it's just a sort of "we can do better, I'm sure" idealism that motivates the rejection of race?

But why? Why not let people keep the aesthetics of their peoples' culture, and keep their ancestral lines intact?

no wonder you are not able to attract anyone with your views outside of your druggie antifa kiddies
how do you think you're going to get to socialism without a state?

At least get your spooks right.

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top kek

Nation = Race is something which can easily be justified, but nation = state is not

Your culture lives by what YOU are doing with it, shill Bach, revive classical arts, literrature…
Or are you meaning patrimony? Usually there are already laws for keeping them, if only for tourism… Or just Folklore? It started to wither away before mass immigration. People gave up traditions because their meaning stopped being self evident. Keeping traditions for the sake of it is useless.

As for the ancestral line, sorry to put it bluntly but that is pure fantasy, History is filled with population's migrations, you most likely have blood of countless people running trough your veins. I'm French White but i have Mongolian, Austrian and Arab ancestry and cherry on cake, one of my biological Great grand father was a Nazi Soldier…

Unless you're suicidal, don't tell Chinese and Japanese they form one Nation because they're both Asians.
Or Poles and Russians because they're Slavs.

You can have several ethnies within a nation. One ethny can be part of several Nations.
Race is arbitrary biological classification. Nation is arbitrary cultural classification.

And if people still want to segregate themselves under communism? What that be possible?

i think that is accurate

Then it's likely they'll do that on the basis of personal affinity rather than their vaguely defined lineage.

As someone whose vehemently anti tankie and anti fascist, you're going too far here

Because "completely homogeneous ethno-state" and "economically far-left" are in direct contradiction.

It doesn't as long as you don't actually do anything to enforce that situation. If it happens by chance it's fine. If it happens because you're systematically exterminating "lesser races", then fuck you.

The key word here is 'let'. Nobody is putting a direct end to these things through forceful measures to create a communist society, apart from simply destroying the economic system that allows their continuation as something of importance past mere enjoyment or vague interest.

Even now you can see religion, cultural traditions, spoken language, and other things as disappearing under global capitalism, and it's not from a direct attack on those things, they just wither away when they have no relevance.

I and others have already answered this several times. It's not something 'banned' if you can't get your head around it otherwise.

Racial equality is a spook

Well there is an optimum level that should bee obtained that isnt too homogeneous or too mixed because its the sweet spot for optimum innovation and prosperity.

Biologically wise? The optimum level is reached when you prevent every retard from breeding.
Culturally wise? That's pretty difficult to tell because the level of prosperity influence the relations with strangers, so your ability to live and work with them, so the prosperity…
That's my own opinion, but altough there is always a diversity in culture everywhere (you can't expect everyone to behave absolutely the same), you need some kind of common ground to live with people. General rules for this:
-same rules for everyone
-education as similar as possibe (same stuff teached at school country wise, at least regarding language and history, the main factor which created modern nations in the first place)
Enforce this ruthlessly and the only ones left will be thoses able to get along.

I had culture in mind more.

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Yes, it is non-existent, you dumb fuck. Can you put it in a jar?

Very nice ontology you got there, because under it there's no such thing as language.

Consider suicide.

We indeed wouldn't care. The thing is, there exists next to none so-called "completely homogeneous ethno-states". Besides, actually ensuring their continuing existence would require an insane amount of arbitrary violence we certainly don't approve of.

People of different racial heritage living in the same geographical area is an immutable fact. You will never "overturn" that. Get over it.

That' non material, not non existant.

spoopy