Was Jesus an ancient anarchist?

No. Dorothy Day, a Catholic anarchist interpreted it as: if you give God everything that belongs to Him, there will not be anything left for Caesar.

Nonviolence works only when you have the police to protect you. In the absence of police protection, nonviolence is very nearly the equivalent to suicide.
- Ted The Mailman Kaczynski
Anarcho-Pacifism BTFO!

I think this is the point. If the state uses violence against non-violent people, they lose favor with the general public. This is why whenever an actual riot breaks out, the media is always quick to say "violence on both sides" or something to indicate that the protesters instigated a violent response from the police.

Yeah duh, he went that extra step further and actually overthrew the authorities before they could put a stop to him, he did that whole hippy secluded phase like Jesus and most cults do before he became a bandit and formed a militia.

Anyway I know you're that butthurt Holla Forumslack from:

8ch.net/leftypol/res/877839.html

I didn't post in that thread but boy am I not going to regurgitate all that shit for you.

Do people still say this unironically?

And by this act the state will justify itself in the supression of this violence. The system reproduces itself by causing discontent wich result into eventual violent outburst wich will justify the supression of thus people.

The rational system of violence not only perpetuates itself, but also evokes responses, often in the form of blind lashings out by enraged individuals, which the system then manipulates into justifications for its own continual existence, and occasionally in the form of consciously rebellious violence. The passionate violence that is suppressed turns in on the one feeling it, becoming the the slow-killing, underlying violence of stress and anxiety. It is evident in the millions of little pinpricks of humiliation that pass between people on the streets and in the public places of every city — looks of disgust and hostility between strangers, and the verbal battle of wits exchanging guilt and blame between supposed friends. This is the subtlest and most total form of rationalised violence; everyone conforms out of fear of each others’ disgust. This is the subtle form of violence practiced by pacifists.

Feral Revolution - Insurgent Ferocity: The Playful Violence of Rebellion
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/feral-faun-essays#toc5

I guess I disagree with Feral Faun.

Thats allright user, if you want to maintain the status quo and state interest its fine. There is always labour or green to vote to perhaps change towards socialism.

Right. This is basically essentializing anything that isn't overtly violent as liberal, but obvioulsy this does an injustice to what Christian anarchists (and im sure other pacifists) actually believed. I don't think Tolstoy or his followers would "vote to perhaps change towards socialism". That's besides the point.

Pascifism isnt Liberalism but it is when the status quo that shouldnt be abolished by violence is liberalism. Pascifism is consent for systematic violence by the centralisation of force by not allowing any contradicting force of the people within the system to enforce their own liberation from the bounds of the state wich enforces restrictions by the economic system (capitalism) and its own enforcement of its legislation. (Enforcement of its morality/rules) Pascifism is the preservation and the defence of the central authority and its systematic violence wich they legtimize by protecting people from other's their violence. State is the god of the pascifist as the pascifist is ensured of its protection by the state is he is property of the state like all its citizens.

Also this!

So why do modern people regard violence as evil in itself? They do so for one reason only: they have been brainwashed by propaganda. Modern society uses various forms of propaganda to teach people to be frightened and horrified by violence because the technoindustrial system needs a population that is timid, docile, and afraid to assert itself, a population that will not make trouble or disrupt the orderly functioning of the system. Power depends ultimately on physical force. By teaching people that violence is wrong (except, of course, when the system itself uses violence via the police or the military), the system maintains its monopoly on physical force and thus keeps all power in its own hands.

Whatever philosophical or moral rationalizations people may invent to explain their belief that violence is wrong, the real reason for that belief is that they have unconsciously absorbed the system’s propaganda.

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-letter-to-a-turkish-anarchist

Ted the Mailman strikes again!

No, he didn't exist

Oh wow that's such a specific claim. It only took 20,000 years of people living in civilization, under opressive states, to be indoctrinated into believing violence is wrong. Okay i guess. Am I really supposed to believe that people really think all violence is wrong. Because most people don't actually believe that. Very few pacifists actually exist and these articles are splitting the finest of hairs.

Lol.

sounds more like a certain sell out soc-dem I know of.

I think claims like: people only think violence is wrong because they've been indoctrinated by the state is kind of dumb and has a lot of weird baggage attached to it. And when we look at pacifists like Tolstoy, we can trace his pacifism to his religious conversion and the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament – his radical attitude towards the state and capitalism wasn't a result of state or capitalist indoctrination because he came to have those views afterwards. We can say that there is a problem with treating all violence as a monolith, but then isn't there a problem also treating all pacifism as liberal tolerance? I mean I don't even agree with the idea with the state propagating violence being wrong, but yeah I guess I would rather live knowing that murder is immoral than just see it as one person expressing his power, liberty and uniqueness over someone else.

Religion has no place in the left. It is inherently reactionary and at best acts as a pain killer while we actually look to fix the cause them problem(and in practice its shows its reactionary side more often than not). All clergy will be shot on sight and anyone who refuses to denounce religion will get 15 years hate labor in the gulag

Offcourse its kidna of an absolutist claim, but even so today's society mainly acts in pascifism as its propagated by liberalism to maintain the status quo.

Then you are just being moral and not pascifist.

"But the campaign against the backwardness of the masses in this matter of religion, must be conducted with patience and considerateness, as well as with energy and perseverance. The credulous crowd is extremely sensitive to anything which hurts its feelings. To thrust atheism upon the masses, and in conjunction therewith to interfere forcibly with religious practices and to make mock of the objects of popular reverence, would not assist but would hinder the campaign against religion. If the church were to be persecuted, it would win sympathy among the masses, for persecution would remind them of the almost forgotten days when there was an association between religion and the defence of national freedom; it would strengthen the antisemitic movement; and in general it would mobilize all the vestiges of an ideology which is already beginning to die out."
-Literally the ABC's of Communism

But he said:

Why must i follow every single idea like a dogma? I agree with Ted but i can also disagree with other things about it as i am not dogmatic that i must agree with every fucking thing the people i like say.

I think I can also roughly agree to some extent the general idea that the state obviously prefers non-violence. But I think in the same way Wolfi complained about pacifists viewing all violence as monolith that they're basically doing the same to non-violence.

U right

I mostly just memeing here but you have to be in denial if you don't think the hasn't and there wouldn't be any nasty clashes between the radical left and religious organizations. Simply letting them be is not an option. I find it especially true for anarchists because religion has been tied to spooky hierarchies for millenia.

One day I'll figure out why Dorothy Day never left the Catholic Church.

Probably the most relevant Christian anarchist right now is a Mennonite which isn't even a radical form of Christianity. Its basically a step removed from Quakers.

How will you have an authoritarian state without any hierarchy?

Jesus wasn't interested in politics.

He was only the leader of an apocalyptic Jewish cult telling people to save their souls because the Day of Judgement was coming.

*tips fedora*

Having the entire populace focused solely on worldly things has a nasty tendency of producing hedonism and/or nihilistic apathy. Also, the tactics you describe failed in the 1930s, as evidenced by the survival of the Russian Orthodox Church despite only 1/12 of parishes remaining operational in 1941 and most priests gulaged.

The left should promote Christianity as a solution to the Muslim problem. The core is that we don't have a coherent value system and these Muslim reactionaries do.

By adopting Christianity we can assert our dialectical moral superiority and draw away people who are angry by this. If you really are against Muslims, you must promote Christianity actively.

The colonialist spread of Christianity is responsible for the progressing of the cultures that it colonized. Missiinaries dindu muffin wrong

Kek/10

Jesus is a fictional character based on a trend of populist preachers during a certain period of Roman history.

And then Stalin brought the church back when he was losing against the Nazis kek.

Then Kruschev tore them all down again. Maybe if he wasn't so edgy the SU might have survived.

Like I said, scrapping religion engenders apathy and nihilism among the population. Can't win a war if people have nothing to live or die for.

Didn't the primitive christians lived in communes until they got cucked by Rome?

As recounted in Acts, "they had everything in common." They eventually developed an issue with free riding, which Paul addresses in his second letter to the Thessalonians.

...

Without faith in something beyond oneself there is simply no reason not to be a hedonist. It is fun. Institutions like political parties can only provide meaning for so long before they let people down. Of course, extreme poverty can make hedonism impossible. But then why live if you have nothing to live for?

The physical world has no intrinsic meaning. People can either try to project meaning onto it or receive meaning from a world of the spirit. But people and their institutions have, do, and will fail. It is thus necessary to look for meaning from an irrational yet incorruptible source.

the point of the Unto Caesar verse is to separate materialism from spirituality

This is why I can't respect you, but rather feel sorry for you.

no society focuses solely on worldly things, even if they think they do. the desire for progress and possession inherently relies on attempting to attain something that is never truly attainable, but by which sustains the impulse to progress/possess at all

Jesus was man who got what he deserved. Nothing more.

You can live for the revolution if you want, but revolutions have let people down in the past.

>>>/fringe/

Fuck off with your christian nihilism. Not the biggest fan of nietzsche but he was right about Christianity leading to nihilism

You are misreading what I wrote. At no point did I say I was a nihilist. "Christian nihilism" is an oxymoron. WITHOUT religion structuring people's lives there is nihilism. The physical world may be absurd, but the kingdom of God is not of this world.

not him but the christian view of the physical world is nihilistic and void of spirituality. the actual spirituality of christianity is based completely in extra-dimensional hypotheticals

Yes, of course. If that was Nietzsche's view of Christianity, then he was completely correct. I do not think that nihilism is the best word to use to describe this, since Christianity has a very well developed value system.

No. He was an anarchrist.

a moralistic value system based on reward/punishment rather than un-hypothetical principles like love, community, self-interest etc. because to a christian, meaning is only in these metaphysical rules. it's definitely some kind of nihilism

You should read the holy book of a religion before trying to criticize it. If you can find nothing about love and community in the New Testament then the translator of your version must not have had a very good grasp of Ancient Greek.

i have read the gospels, i'm not saying anything about them directly. i'm talking about fundamentalist christian interpretation & culture.

I will not defend them, because there is much about them that is indefensible. I do side with fundamentalists on many "culture war" issues, but many people are very quick to criticize others and hesitant to find fault with themselves. See also: Ted Cruz, the adulterer who never publicly apologized but was still able to appeal to religious voters.

Christanity leads to nihilism because it teaches you that the meaning can come from the divine, and this world is fallen, unimportant, and just a test for better things. Instead of finding your own purpose you need your daddy in the sky to tell you what to do. I'm glad your death cult losing more and influence in the west, and a communust society probably would be the final nail in the coffin. Good riddance.

Except you and I both know that the material informs the spiritual.

What is your purpose? Why is it more noble than that set forth by Christianity?

and spirituality informs the material. as above so below. you're telling me shit i already understand

I, personally want to become a teacher, but that's a pretty specific decesion based on my life experiences. Not the most exciting or unique idea, but still more noble than the Christian message of "you are a fallen creature who needs forgiveness, which you don't deserve by the way"