Why aren't you using Xray?

Xray is an experimental Electron-based text editor (written in Rust) informed by what we've learned in the four years since the launch of Atom. In the short term, this project is a testbed for rapidly iterating on several radical ideas without risking the stability of Atom. The longer term future of the code in this repository will become clearer after a few months of progress. For now, our primary goal is to iterate rapidly and learn as much as possible.


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Is it vim? Is it emacs? No? Then there's literally no reason anyone should ever use it.



I use vim. I am heterosexual. I eat meat.

My monitor refreshes every 7ms.
Why do all these modern apps have to have so much vertical bloat? Vertical as in layers upon layers of abstraction as opposed to horizontal bloat which is kind of like emacs which has tons of different commands that you might not even use.

An editor made for EDITING textfiles that people frankenstein due to massive sunk cost of learning keybinds. And a lisp environment with some primitive text editing that people turned into a lisp OS with primitive text editing.
Yep the peak of programming tools right there.

And all these bloat are still less bloated than any electron software.

I use Emacs. It's shit.

Because nano is fine and literally 1/1000th the size.

your right we should all start using rust/xray immediatly

Because I don't want cancer.

please take your meds

What the fuck is with all these new text-editors made with XML and Web 3.0? People realize that a text editor is designed to edit text, and not render it, right?

I'd rather write my own.

Are you me?

but why if there's Sublime Text?

hmm it aims for some rather bizarre goals
like concurrent editing (similar to constantly resolving merge conflicts in real time)
but what are the use cases for that?

I'd rather use anything else

But text is boring, user. There needs to be images, videos, and HTML5 games embedded in a .txt file so that little fatherless Tyrone has nice flashy moving pictures to help him read!

Even Terry Davis used a language with embedded images.


This. I know emacs about as far as one can, but most of the time I just use sublime these days. It's hassle free.

So they made sure they were all bad decisions.

Wtf is electron, and why it smells of soy boy?

Because I already have a web browser

Imagine GTK or Qt but instead of a library it's a web browser and instead of C it's Javscript.

Interesting distinction. So,

hard + unimportant = naming scheme/programming language used,
easy + unimportant = user interface,
easy + important = drivers/modules used?


Just use /bin/cp you neckbeard

8ms is fast enough to perceive, that's insane.

I challenge someone to find a useful project with that slogan attached.

I'm curious as to what it is you hate the most about it.

perhaps they are aiming for the majority who are limited with 60hz, that is, every 16.(6)ms

mostly ease of coding, especially when making huge changes

well I am fucked then. my laptop can't do anything above 60hz. macOS doesn't even have any options in GUI to change refresh rate.

btw, what are the other possible choices if I want to target a lot of platforms (for example, all desktop + Android) while not having to write too much platform specific code?

could be
(I'm not him)

It likes to lock up in annoying ways because it's still living in 1980s synchronous terminal world, it has mediocre mouse support, its default behavior could be much more sane (it mixes tabs and spaces until you turn that off, what the fuck), among other things.
I don't hate it, I love it, I just think it's shit.

GTK and Qt can't target web browsers, IIRC.
Javascript, as much as it's shit, is at least [mostly] memory safe (so is almost any other language, except C and C++)
The biggest actual problem is that it's bundling a complete Chromium with (kind of) static linking.

We did not do anything better in time, so we got the future we deserved.

that's abusive relationship bro
tough shit you got there


so it's sending already rendered (parts of) graphic bitmaps over the network?

…an interesting find nonetheless

more rust trash nobody asked for that probably performs better if it was written in c++

It has its warts, but when I think how cool it is to replace almost everything with LISP in real time, it's pretty neat. I use it less and less these days, but I'm glad it exists.

I'm sure I'd hate it more if I dug into the source code, I hear that it has collected a lot of cruft.

As clever as that may be, it still makes me want to throw up.

That's the proper reaction to clever things. Dijkstra was right.

What I just cannot understand is that so many other programmers are willing to excrete crap like Electron-based projects to their users. What happened to programming as an intellectual exercise, as something you can be proud of doing? Dijkstra must be spinning in his grave.

target audience changed

I believe in rapid application development through code reuse and code composition. Electron is a huge library of imminently usable code for use in common GUI applications. Electron is cross platform across Unix, OS X and Windows. I don't care about intellectual wanking as much as achieving results as quickly and efficienctly as possible.


You can't be proud of your work when you can't do the best you can. You can't do the best you can because shitty hardware and bloated OSes don't let you. The other problem is that everything is much more complicated. Universities used to build their own machines and their own OS without caring whether it ran anyone else's software. It used to take less time to build new computers with new CPU architectures and OSes than it did to update a CPU and OS. It still does, but practically nobody wants to. Dijkstra complained about the "software crisis" but now the crisis is much worse. At least back then, the bloatware was assembly programs made by people who generally knew what they were doing.


You still need to solve that part.

No, fuck you. You can be clever in any language, not just muh C. In fact, C often encourages not being clever due to a lack of higher level constructs, which makes reinplementing these features all too complicated, clunky, time consuming and probably pointless since you may had as well choose a more suitable tool from the get go and get straight to the point of your project. In fact, you can be clever in JavaScript with dispatch tables and closures to the point programming becomes almost declarative, which in my opinion is peak clever.

you got it wrong, it is only clever if it werks good and isn't a PITA to change, everything else is irrelevant

When did I say that you could not be 'clever' in a high level language? I never even brought up C, but you can be as 'clever' as you like in Javascript, the problem is that current implementations are horrendous, especially with regard to memory management. No matter what, the electron project you ship will be a steaming pile of shit. Yes, even if you include the 'Made with Aids by Faggots' tagline, it still sucks.


You can have code reuse with C. There are cross platform gui toolkits like Qt.
Why even care about macfags and winfags?

it's literally bloat. Not "it's not written in assembly" meme bloat, but actual bloat where a single trivial user application written with it can take up a web browser amount of RAM and idle with non-trivial CPU usage. It's complete overkill in most every usage and it appeals to niggerlicious diversity-hires. It's Java^2. Even more bloat and even more memey.

Super AIDS is real

because it's an experimental Electron-based text editor (written in Rust)


you won't go far with that attitude, dude

Not him but Vi is just better. In Vi, every command is atomic and to do anything, you just fit together different commands and it all just works in an intuitive way.
This means that Vi is consistent across the board and you can learn and teach new commands just by using your imagination.
It also allows new features to be senselessly integrated into your existing workflow.

Emacs on the other hand has these autistic, mortal combat-esque key combos that hurt your hand to type in because they were designed by an autistic man who likes to contort his hands into unnatural ridge shapes.
It also has a ton of bloat and none of the emacs tools (like email, web, etc.) are any good. Certainly could use a suckless fork of emacs
The only advantage emacs is LISP extensibility.

Using a web browser as their runtime was stupid, failing to use the browser built into every modern OS was dumb. But the cherry on their retarded sundae is the fact that each Electron program you install will put its own 100MB+ copy of the runtime on your drive, and each one you run simultaneously will load that 100MB+ copy into RAM, bit-for-bit identical.

That's a level of incompetence that verges on Poe's Law malware.

they match her eyes fantastically.

Nope, most of the common ones memorable mnemonics. If you don't remember you can just execute the command by typing it out after M-x or use the editor's built in help system.
My hands never hurt when using emacs.
Maybe you are holding your hand wrong and don't have proper form.
Take that back. I use mu4e and elfeed every day and they work great.

You make some good points but, the reason Emacs has some awkward keycombos is because of the unbelievable amount of shit they have to cram into one package.
Of course, modal is better for plain editing but you can just do so much more with Emacs' combos, including semi-modal style using branching combo-trees.
Also, in terms of built in tools, some of them are great, some are decent for their purpose (EWW in particular), and some are... bad (GNUS).
But, Emacs is very VERY easy to extend, and of course this has led to an absolute flood of viable alternatives to just about everything.
For every GNUS there's a MU4E to replace it.
Also, Emacs' term mode lets you use just about any CLI application as an Emacs program.
If you dislike EWW you can swap to W3M or something, and you can even use VI in the term buffer if you like it better for editing text.

You use MU4E?
How can I get it to use SSL/TLS instead of STARTTLS?

(setq smtpmail-stream-type 'ssl)
**I'm already assuming you have message-send-mail-function set to

what's wrong with gnus? It takes a lot of configuration and manual searching, but it works great for me.

Yeah and then one day they do. Enjoy your visits to the doctor after that.

eww leaks memory like a late-stage Alzheimer's patient. Pity, because I liked it otherwise.

The CRDT thing actually sounds neat. Maybe someone will put a frontend on it that isn't bloated to shit.

Visual Studio Code