Why aren't you using Xray?

Ethan Miller
Ethan Miller

Xray is an experimental Electron-based text editor (written in Rust) informed by what we've learned in the four years since the launch of Atom. In the short term, this project is a testbed for rapidly iterating on several radical ideas without risking the stability of Atom. The longer term future of the code in this repository will become clearer after a few months of progress. For now, our primary goal is to iterate rapidly and learn as much as possible.

github.com/atom/xray

Other urls found in this thread:

developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-broadway.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_crisis

Dylan Gomez
Dylan Gomez

Is it vim? Is it emacs? No? Then there's literally no reason anyone should ever use it.

Jacob Butler
Jacob Butler

implying vim and emacs aren't shit

Adam Green
Adam Green

I use vim. I am heterosexual. I eat meat.

Robert Hughes
Robert Hughes

Duration Action
8ms Scrolling, animations, and fine-grained interactions such as typing or cursor movement.
50ms Coarse-grained interactions such as opening a file or initiating a search. If we can't complete the action within this window, we should show a progress bar.
150ms Opening an application window.
My monitor refreshes every 7ms.
Why do all these modern apps have to have so much vertical bloat? Vertical as in layers upon layers of abstraction as opposed to horizontal bloat which is kind of like emacs which has tons of different commands that you might not even use.

Joshua Miller
Joshua Miller

An editor made for EDITING textfiles that people frankenstein due to massive sunk cost of learning keybinds. And a lisp environment with some primitive text editing that people turned into a lisp OS with primitive text editing.
Yep the peak of programming tools right there.

Colton Miller
Colton Miller

And all these bloat are still less bloated than any electron software.

Ian Reed
Ian Reed

I use Emacs. It's shit.

Gavin Wilson
Gavin Wilson

Because nano is fine and literally 1/1000th the size.

Nolan Long
Nolan Long

your right we should all start using rust/xray immediatly

Aaron Wright
Aaron Wright

Because I don't want cancer.

Julian Butler
Julian Butler

please take your meds

Adrian Jackson
Adrian Jackson

What the fuck is with all these new text-editors made with XML and Web 3.0? People realize that a text editor is designed to edit text, and not render it, right?

Joshua Hughes
Joshua Hughes

I'd rather write my own.

Gabriel Green
Gabriel Green

Are you me?

Henry Roberts
Henry Roberts

but why if there's Sublime Text?

Julian Jenkins
Julian Jenkins

hmm it aims for some rather bizarre goals
like concurrent editing (similar to constantly resolving merge conflicts in real time)
but what are the use cases for that?

Evan Torres
Evan Torres

Electron
I'd rather use anything else

Michael Roberts
Michael Roberts

But text is boring, user. There needs to be images, videos, and HTML5 games embedded in a .txt file so that little fatherless Tyrone has nice flashy moving pictures to help him read!

Ian Miller
Ian Miller

Even Terry Davis used a language with embedded images.

Landon Turner
Landon Turner

This. I know emacs about as far as one can, but most of the time I just use sublime these days. It's hassle free.

Gavin Davis
Gavin Davis

Martin Fowler defines software architecture as those decisions which are both important and hard to change. Since these decisions are hard to change, we need to be sure that our foundational priorities are well-served by these decisions.
So they made sure they were all bad decisions.

Aiden Johnson
Aiden Johnson

Wtf is electron, and why it smells of soy boy?

Matthew Robinson
Matthew Robinson

Because I already have a web browser

Jaxson Johnson
Jaxson Johnson

Imagine GTK or Qt but instead of a library it's a web browser and instead of C it's Javscript.

Isaac Russell
Isaac Russell

Interesting distinction. So,

hard + unimportant = naming scheme/programming language used,
easy + unimportant = user interface,
easy + important = drivers/modules used?

Liam Ross
Liam Ross

Using some JS-shit instead of dd for disk-writing
GAY

Xavier Scott
Xavier Scott

dd
Just use /bin/cp you neckbeard

Zachary Rodriguez
Zachary Rodriguez

8ms is fast enough to perceive, that's insane.

Isaac Edwards
Isaac Edwards

Made with Cancer.
I challenge someone to find a useful project with that slogan attached.

Aaron Brown
Aaron Brown

I'm curious as to what it is you hate the most about it.

Henry Martin
Henry Martin

My monitor refreshes every 7ms.
143hz
perhaps they are aiming for the majority who are limited with 60hz, that is, every 16.(6)ms
Why do all these modern apps have to have so much vertical bloat?
mostly ease of coding, especially when making huge changes
well I am fucked then. my laptop can't do anything above 60hz. macOS doesn't even have any options in GUI to change refresh rate.

btw, what are the other possible choices if I want to target a lot of platforms (for example, all desktop + Android) while not having to write too much platform specific code?

Tyler Sanders
Tyler Sanders

could be (I'm not him)

Nathan Johnson
Nathan Johnson

It likes to lock up in annoying ways because it's still living in 1980s synchronous terminal world, it has mediocre mouse support, its default behavior could be much more sane (it mixes tabs and spaces until you turn that off, what the fuck), among other things.
I don't hate it, I love it, I just think it's shit.

Jason Diaz
Jason Diaz

GTK and Qt can't target web browsers, IIRC.
Javascript, as much as it's shit, is at least [mostly] memory safe (so is almost any other language, except C and C++)
The biggest actual problem is that it's bundling a complete Chromium with (kind of) static linking.

We did not do anything better in time, so we got the future we deserved.

Easton Richardson
Easton Richardson

I love it, I just think it's shit.
that's abusive relationship bro
tough shit you got there

Blake Torres
Blake Torres

developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-broadway.html

Hunter Martin
Hunter Martin

so it's sending already rendered (parts of) graphic bitmaps over the network?

Eli Perry
Eli Perry

…an interesting find nonetheless

Angel Cox
Angel Cox

more rust trash nobody asked for that probably performs better if it was written in c++

Noah Nelson
Noah Nelson

I don't hate it, I love it, I just think it's shit.
It has its warts, but when I think how cool it is to replace almost everything with LISP in real time, it's pretty neat. I use it less and less these days, but I'm glad it exists.

I'm sure I'd hate it more if I dug into the source code, I hear that it has collected a lot of cruft.

Connor Nelson
Connor Nelson

As clever as that may be, it still makes me want to throw up.

Owen Myers
Owen Myers

That's the proper reaction to clever things. Dijkstra was right.

David Baker
David Baker

What I just cannot understand is that so many other programmers are willing to excrete crap like Electron-based projects to their users. What happened to programming as an intellectual exercise, as something you can be proud of doing? Dijkstra must be spinning in his grave.

Christian Reyes
Christian Reyes

target audience changed

Anthony Hill
Anthony Hill

I believe in rapid application development through code reuse and code composition. Electron is a huge library of imminently usable code for use in common GUI applications. Electron is cross platform across Unix, OS X and Windows. I don't care about intellectual wanking as much as achieving results as quickly and efficienctly as possible.

Julian Jackson
Julian Jackson

See

Lincoln Davis
Lincoln Davis

What happened to programming as an intellectual exercise, as something you can be proud of doing? Dijkstra must be spinning in his grave.
You can't be proud of your work when you can't do the best you can. You can't do the best you can because shitty hardware and bloated OSes don't let you. The other problem is that everything is much more complicated. Universities used to build their own machines and their own OS without caring whether it ran anyone else's software. It used to take less time to build new computers with new CPU architectures and OSes than it did to update a CPU and OS. It still does, but practically nobody wants to. Dijkstra complained about the "software crisis" but now the crisis is much worse. At least back then, the bloatware was assembly programs made by people who generally knew what they were doing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_crisis

Lucas Phillips
Lucas Phillips

achieving results
You still need to solve that part.

Benjamin Perez
Benjamin Perez

intellectual exercise means going as low level as possible and doing everything as primitively as you can
No, fuck you. You can be clever in any language, not just muh C. In fact, C often encourages not being clever due to a lack of higher level constructs, which makes reinplementing these features all too complicated, clunky, time consuming and probably pointless since you may had as well choose a more suitable tool from the get go and get straight to the point of your project. In fact, you can be clever in JavaScript with dispatch tables and closures to the point programming becomes almost declarative, which in my opinion is peak clever.

Tyler Smith
Tyler Smith

you got it wrong, it is only clever if it werks good and isn't a PITA to change, everything else is irrelevant

Dominic Thompson
Dominic Thompson

When did I say that you could not be 'clever' in a high level language? I never even brought up C, but you can be as 'clever' as you like in Javascript, the problem is that current implementations are horrendous, especially with regard to memory management. No matter what, the electron project you ship will be a steaming pile of shit. Yes, even if you include the 'Made with Aids by Faggots' tagline, it still sucks.

Isaac Taylor
Isaac Taylor

not using kilo

Adrian Bailey
Adrian Bailey

You can have code reuse with C. There are cross platform gui toolkits like Qt.
Why even care about macfags and winfags?

Chase Thomas
Chase Thomas

it's literally bloat. Not "it's not written in assembly" meme bloat, but actual bloat where a single trivial user application written with it can take up a web browser amount of RAM and idle with non-trivial CPU usage. It's complete overkill in most every usage and it appeals to niggerlicious diversity-hires. It's Java^2. Even more bloat and even more memey.

Asher Edwards
Asher Edwards

Xray
Electron-based
written in Rust
Super AIDS is real

Luis Young
Luis Young

because it's an experimental Electron-based text editor (written in Rust)

Levi Rivera
Levi Rivera

written in Rust

Justin Powell
Justin Powell

Why even care about macfags and winfags?
you won't go far with that attitude, dude

Henry Roberts
Henry Roberts

Not him but Vi is just better. In Vi, every command is atomic and to do anything, you just fit together different commands and it all just works in an intuitive way.
This means that Vi is consistent across the board and you can learn and teach new commands just by using your imagination.
It also allows new features to be senselessly integrated into your existing workflow.

Emacs on the other hand has these autistic, mortal combat-esque key combos that hurt your hand to type in because they were designed by an autistic man who likes to contort his hands into unnatural ridge shapes.
It also has a ton of bloat and none of the emacs tools (like email, web, etc.) are any good. Certainly could use a suckless fork of emacs
The only advantage emacs is LISP extensibility.

Asher White
Asher White

Using a web browser as their runtime was stupid, failing to use the browser built into every modern OS was dumb. But the cherry on their retarded sundae is the fact that each Electron program you install will put its own 100MB+ copy of the runtime on your drive, and each one you run simultaneously will load that 100MB+ copy into RAM, bit-for-bit identical.

That's a level of incompetence that verges on Poe's Law malware.

Isaac Sullivan
Isaac Sullivan

they match her eyes fantastically.

Anthony Jenkins
Anthony Jenkins

autistic, mortal combat-esque key combos
Nope, most of the common ones memorable mnemonics. If you don't remember you can just execute the command by typing it out after M-x or use the editor's built in help system.
that hurt your hand to type in
My hands never hurt when using emacs.
into unnatural ridge shapes
Maybe you are holding your hand wrong and don't have proper form.
none of the emacs tools (like email, web, etc.) are any good.
Take that back. I use mu4e and elfeed every day and they work great.

Levi Cox
Levi Cox

You make some good points but, the reason Emacs has some awkward keycombos is because of the unbelievable amount of shit they have to cram into one package.
Of course, modal is better for plain editing but you can just do so much more with Emacs' combos, including semi-modal style using branching combo-trees.
Also, in terms of built in tools, some of them are great, some are decent for their purpose (EWW in particular), and some are... bad (GNUS).
But, Emacs is very VERY easy to extend, and of course this has led to an absolute flood of viable alternatives to just about everything.
For every GNUS there's a MU4E to replace it.
Also, Emacs' term mode lets you use just about any CLI application as an Emacs program.
If you dislike EWW you can swap to W3M or something, and you can even use VI in the term buffer if you like it better for editing text.

Lincoln Phillips
Lincoln Phillips

You use MU4E?
How can I get it to use SSL/TLS instead of STARTTLS?

Brody Garcia
Brody Garcia

(setq smtpmail-stream-type 'ssl)
**I'm already assuming you have message-send-mail-function set to
smtpmail-sendit**

Gabriel Hernandez
Gabriel Hernandez

what's wrong with gnus? It takes a lot of configuration and manual searching, but it works great for me.

Camden Moore
Camden Moore

my hands never hurt
Yeah and then one day they do. Enjoy your visits to the doctor after that.

Joshua Brown
Joshua Brown

eww leaks memory like a late-stage Alzheimer's patient. Pity, because I liked it otherwise.

Chase Powell
Chase Powell

The CRDT thing actually sounds neat. Maybe someone will put a frontend on it that isn't bloated to shit.

Josiah Williams
Josiah Williams

Visual Studio Code

James Gonzalez
James Gonzalez

Thanks.