Work-time based salary

would a work-time standard exclusively based money bring us to communism?

Well, it's one method of ending commodity production.

They only thing that can bring communism to earth is the extinction of our species.

Eventually, another race will rise and will eventually come to the correct conclusion. Or not. Eventually somebody will get it right.

it's the only way i can realize a society where you got what you worked for.

do you have any alternative comrad?

No.

That's not what communism is about. You should read the Critique of the Gotha programme.

Isn't the wage based on work time already? I don't get it.

it sounds pretty logic to me that in a society where no one steal your work you got what you worked for; because, if you receive more than you've worked for, it means that you have stolen that from somewhere, and if you receive less than you've worked, it means you have been exploited.


i will


of course not, workers literally work for free, paying bourgie's sallaries.

Then its socialism, not communism.

you got me confused, is socialism the goal of communism?, or is communism the goal of socialism? what's the difference between those concepts?

Communism is the goal, socialism is the step inbetween.

Communism does not have money, a state or classes, socialism only does not have classes.

Don't listen to him:
He's confused too.

Communism is the moneyless, classless, stateless society that will emerge from capitalism.
It will include two stages: lower-stage first, then upper-stage.
Lower-stage communism is traditionally referred to as socialism.

yeah, but im almost sure that's a misinterpretation isnt it? because that's why people think socialism to be "big guvernand"

some history teacher once tell me that socialism is the goal, and communism and anarchism try to achieve it in different ways.

also


wat? why?

I should have said: in the Marxist tradition, lower-stage communism is often referred to as socialism. Of course the word "socialism" will have a lot of different definitions depending on who you're talking to. But the Marxist one is the only one that is ever going to actually exist.

Because trade is the very nature of capitalism. Now I suggest you read Capital (if you're really interested and you have the courage, it's… long and quite hard).

...

(cont)
If you want to figure out what the communist society will look like, imagine a car factory. In your building, you make wheels. The iron or whatever you need comes from another building. Of course, you do not pay for it; you just express a need, and the iron is delivered. Then, once the wheel is finished, your deliver it to the next building, where your comrades attach it to a car. Of course, you don't ask for payment either.
Now, imagine this, on the scale of the whole society.

[[IDIOTIC LIBERTARIAN-LIKE COUNTERARGUMENT BELLOW]]

so, how is supposed to make sure everyone works in that society, and not simply parasite the system?

that's why i thought that a work-time standard based money would solve that issue.

I think an unfortunate side affect of this would simply be too many people working themselves to death because they want more stuff, not to say that that doesn't happen already anyway, but there would be no other way to make money other than working more. Also some jobs are way more labor intensive than other jobs so someone expending WAY more calories and working way harder than another person would make the same as them simply because they worked the same amount of time, even though one was clearly more difficult than the other.

Assuming automation keep going, fewer and fewer persons will be required to work to make society function anyway.

but that's their choice, so everything is ok.


assuming the factories are of public access, it will be their choice to work in a marginal job. assuming no one wants to work in those jobs, they will auto-regulate themselves according to offer-demand laws. the only problem i see in here is those public services (road maintenance, for example) that no one wants to do, but affects the whole society directly, instead of themselves (sweeping the sidewalk in front of your house, for instance)

bump

With what Marx (and others) called "labour vouchers". For the reasons I'm gonna expose below, I prefer to call it "labour record".

Labour vouchers do look like your idea of a labour-based money: they are a certificate of the work-time (and probably not only time) accomplished. But labour vouchers are not money, because money is a commodity, that is, a product destined to be exchanged.

An easy way to figure it out is to imagine a society where the only scarce product is cloth. In such a society, the amount of cloth everyone is entitled to could be decided according to his height. Everyone would then have a "height voucher", which obviously wouldn't be money.

oh my god what a brilliant idea!

why we still using money if we could use labour vouchers instead? does labour vouches have an intrinsic issue or something?

We will use the labour vouchers comrade. After the Revolution.

why didn't the urss use labour vouchers?
or they did?