Why are you all so sure that in the future the whole world will be horizontally organized...

Why are you all so sure that in the future the whole world will be horizontally organized, and people will make things strictly for their use (and not their trade-ability) without monetary remuneration and that everyone will live happily ever after because of this?

we can dream

That litterally not at all what we belief.


No, making things for the sake of making is fun.

nah

Depends on what you think horizontal orginisation means. If it means no hierarchy, then no. Im not an anarchist, I only oppose unjust, unnecessary hierarchies, such as a state.

Only when all innovation is dried up and perfect knowledge is had, is that possible.

Because once you start it'd take a special kind of stupid to go back to wage slavery.


Why?

That's what anarchists want though?

Anarchists often want horizontal orginisation

I dont want horizontalism, only bottom up.

Also some anarchists oppose any and all hierarchy, and im a marxist.

Anarchists want Anarchy right away. Marxists think that to reach Anarchy we must first go through socialism and DoP. The end goal is still communism (lack of state, classes and money) which is in itself anarchistic. In the eyes of Marxists, Anarchists want to go from A-D while skipping B and C.

There'd be nothing left to do or improve on. All problems will have a solution.

Sure. What does that have to do with communism?

I was referring mainly to the "strictly for their use" and "everyone live happily ever after" part. Someone clever is going to figure out something better, start trading for gain and cause conflict.

you have no way of proving that, by the time communism is achieved we could very well be an entirely different species.

Nobody besides orthodox Marxist dialecticians are 'sure' of this.

And a lot of us aren't utopian either (w/r/t 'happily ever after'), we just believe that a better alternative to capitalism could exist.

Gain what exactly?

Whatever in excess the other person desires for it.

Seems pointless. Why not just beat him up and take the secret formula? Or trade for it, give it to everyone, and leave him disappointed and friendless?

That'd be the conflict. What if this applied knowledge he trades makes him a ton of friends? Even bigger conflict.

All anarchists except the crazy primitivist ones want bottom up organization. That's basically what syndicalism means.

No one thinks any of that. Anarchists oppose unjust hierarchies, not all of them. No one thinks people will make things strictly for their use, that's so inefficient. There are various ideas for remuneration, which would be necessary for some types of work (like washing dishes), we just oppose the wage system as it exists now. We also don't think everyone will live happily ever after. Liberals seem to think that every Utopian idea is dumb and shouldn't be followed because there's no way it would all ever work out to plan. We see those ideals as something to strive for, but acknowledge it won't be perfect.

Daily reminder that libertarian marxism is best marxism

How would it make him any friends and not just earn him the hatred of everyone around him? Besides it'd become worthless to him as soon as he traded it to someone unless he had some way to protect his intellectual property because they'd share.