International Socialist Student Union

fuckin walked into that one, didn't I?

...

Come the fuck on.

easy there, we're talking about subgroups and sects, not whole new organization

Agreed, I'll check it out. As for idpol and SJW, this is an issue we should discuss more. I personally don't want to just shoo them away, but at the same time they are far from ready to be included.

I'll be back in a few minutes, hopefully some progressive things will have popped up by then.

nonsectarian bro. We don't plan on catering the group towards anyone in particular.

kek'd

but for real happy to help at my UK university.

if there is enough interest from people willing to discuss ideas and organise, Skype group chat could be an option?

Primary goal should be to dispel bourgeois lies from textbooks, specifically for classes like sociology, economics, and history

5 MILLION KEKS

I want to join but don't have Facebook. ;_;

kekkers

...

The logo is ass. Don't be so obviously commie, you have to hide it better.

Wise words:

youtube.com/watch?v=6-T5ye_z5i0

Facebook is just the beginning, I plan on making a twitter as well. In fact I (or someone with more experience) may be able to create a website for us, but that's going to take time and money to upkeep (which I'll have at my uni, iirc they give something like $500 each semester to every club).

Something along those lines. I'm unfamiliar with groupme, but I'll take a look at it and hopefully we'll be able to transfer to a serious conversation there. I'll keep this thread for updates and for those interested that are just finding out about the union.

Definitely should be included, as mentioned earlier.

not anarchist enough t b h

Yeah a website would be brilliant. Perhaps a blog feature through log in for comrades who want a space to express their views. That kind of discussion on the website allows us to sustain the worldwide element of the society and make it into an effective tool for communication while we organise on a local level in our universities/colleges.

this tbqh fam.

The average human has been conditioned well enough to instantly recoil when they hear or see anything they think is communist. You have to slowly lead them into it.

...

...

Please consider this, normal people is extremely biased against anything that reminds them of communism.

this, you need something boring like a plant or a bird

On the other hand it will get people's attention, and commie imagery is still not as hated as Nazi stuff. Putting a swastika somewhere makes you a social outcast, Hanmer and Sicle may get you smug smiles.

Put a bird or a plant on there and people will think this is a mask for something esoteric or fascist. I mean, putting blue sky on a flyer causes people to think you are some Jesus hippie or scientology.

Plus commie aesthetics are fucking cool and you'll get all the LARPers (no idea if that's a good thing)

...

Looks like the Fist - or maybe the whole logo thus far - has to go. Suggestions fam?

Agreed. Anyone here good with web design? I can look into buying a domain in the future.

Take the star and laurel away, I guess.

This is originally why I went with the raised fist thing, it's not 'directly' communist. Besides that, many black student unions use it already. But hey, this should be decided as a council.

That said, I'm looking into groupme and skype atm. We'll have a good place for discussion in a few minutes hopefully.

Everyone on Holla Forums should watch this video.

ditch the star (sad face but probably necessary), keep the laurel and put maybe a red rose in the middle instead of a fist? idk

No hammer and sickle (despite my previous post), no laurel wreath or wheat wreath. Shit is just too tankie for normies and they will immediately think about the 300 gorillion.

Yet it has to be communist. Star is good. Fist is good. Maybe a more modern, slim design?

Agree so fucking much.

No rose, no SocDem shit pls.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the star. I mean, fucking Converse has a star. It's an unbiased symbol for normies

fair comment tbh, my bad there.

What about a waving red flag? We could try something along the lines of Antifa's logo.

Circle with a red flag and maybe a book to represent us as students?

I rate the book idea actually. I'm gonna endorse that.

I wish this to be true, but unfortunately, no. Especially not Eastern Europe.

That's not a good thing. Or you'll attract edgy teens.

I would even go as far as changing the name. Change it to something like Students for Economic Democracy, Students for Democracy, Students for a better Future, Students Against Austerity etc. Although I don't think a name change is necessary, the logo definitely needs to change. A star can be okay. But no hammer and sickles or grain.

It works for Mozambique.

I'd highly advise not to use anythin AntiFa related. I also think waving flags are ugly, it's like yo dawg I've put a flag on the symbol of your flag.

Just my opinion tho

What about we keep the circle, slap an open book in the middle and maybe sneak a star in somewhere, and have the writing along the bottom.

Agree with this. Flags in flags are … not cool.

I would prefer to keep the name, we shouldn't shy away from calling ourselves socialist. The word is much more accepted now tbh

This doesn't sound like a bad idea, I'll work on compiling the suggestions so far to see what works and what doesn't

I used to be an edgy teen, there is nothing wrong with it if the organisation is good. If it values theory and political action that makes sense, it will get the teens to read theory and evolve a value system that's based arround intelligence and not edgyness.

If the organisation is founded on the right premises, it will convert the edgelords and not let them take over.

What are its goals?
Is it only for university students?

Yeah I think it's important to keep both the international + socialist elements of the name - simply because there are already an abundance of SU groups revolving around austerity/democracy and I fear we won't stand out enough to actually recruit. I think the worldwide element of this is something we need to push for it to be effective, because most SUs have at least one party affiliated Socialist Society already - mostly here in the UK linked to Militant/SP

The problem is that you also want to attract normies who would normally not be attracted to such symbols.

Some even do like the symbols maybe, but fear bad personal reputation to be associated with a too obvious communist group.

It seems to me that what we should look into right now is to gather a few more people to the group, maybe send feelers out across to other left-wing corners of the Internet. Once we get a decent following on the Facebook page we can look into organizing, delegate roles, elect a president, etc.

The first step should be to gather people into one place, and the easiest place would be Facebook. Once there we can far more easily organize.

Sounds good, but I'm still sceptical about the book, gives too much of a book club impression.

I think a compass would be great, too bad the GDR kinda ruined this for us.

Think the main purpose should be educative, and also an outlet for debate and discussion largely free of sectarianism. Harnessing the ability to communicate globally within seconds and trying to translate that into co-ordinated direct action in our communities, our lecture theatres and our universities on a whole.

I guess the main audience here is students, but I'd like it to be as accommodating as possible

How about this for a logo?

Are high-school students welcome too?

my design proposition

What would the difference be from normal socialist youth organizations?

Don't see why not tbh.

I'd like high-school students to be more than welcome. Whether the numbers are there for you not to have to join up with your nearest college campus for events and discussions is another matter. If anything I think that would be beneficial to high-schoolers.

I'd love to find a way to include Anarchist symbolism, but unfortunately once you include black it kind of makes it look like we're just anarchists, instead of a broader coalition of anti-capitalists.

I'll follow it then, I have absolutely nothing leftist related to do other than shitpost here and I think this might be pretty nice
Thanks for making shit like this

Highschoolers suffer the most from mcarthyist brainwashing. They are forced to take an "economics" and "use government" class

*US

we got twitter presence yet?

could be a lot more far-reaching if we do it right imo. Most young socialist stuff is also *awful* digitally, we're already talking Facebook, Twitter, website - it will create a much larger audience.

one reason is posts like this. Most socialist youth organizations are tied down to a central party that is sectarian af. Well, they are here in the UK anyway. I think a broad coalition would attract people outside of those small sects and serve our cause better.

...

We don't even have youth wings here, not for my demography atleast
The main socialist party is socdem now, and other parties are too insignificant and disagreeable ideologically with the exception of a single party that has no youth wing at all as far as I know

That's right, true commie should know nothing about economy, all he need is take orders from the party leader

this

no, everyone should be economically literate, the problem is that American "economics" classes are just pro-market propaganda.

Most socialist youth organizations have this too.

That's a good thing, since they can be trained to further the socialist cause in the future too. But the thing is that a lot of socialist parties are sectarian or bad, as you've said. I'd see this as a good thing only in countries which don't have good socialist youth organizations.

So how long till we form a militia?

Here's another, more "concept" than complete.

Mildly related, I plan on advocating fitness and mental wellness. Gotta have them gains, don't want to be a bunch of shrimpy socialist do we (image-wise)?

This. Most teachers (at least in my country) are disgustingly illiterate when it comes to political theory - if you get one high school student to read a single book he can BTFO the teacher easily and gain respect from his classmates.

People's ideological consciousness is also shaped in high school. When someone is already a lolbert, liberal or conservative in college he is mostly beyond saving and will be resilient towards logical arguments. High school students are clay tho

Make a union for kindergartners tbh

I fully endorse this logo. We've even got black to satiate the Anarkiddies.

I was a lolbert in highschool and college fora few years. I turned socialist afterwards. Those things happen, fortunately.

wot

wtf did you do? Blew up your neighbors garage with a hellfire missile because it violated the NAP?

That's really good

That's really bad

Made it better

that's like, ur opinion man

I r8 m8 8/8

1917/1917

Can push the book a little bit upwards so the bottom corners do no touch the circle? This is aestheticly triggering

Should we define some objectives for the organisation itself when we get a group chat going? In agreement that it needs to stand out from other youth socialist orgs in some way shape or form.

I just said stupid things. ;_; Like saying that women shouldn't vote because they vote left often. I said it while taking a train… So other people besides the ones I told have probably heard.

What if I for instance became a socialist leader… I would have to say that I was right wing in the past… Feels so bad. ;_;

Also, the trail of the star coming out of the book can't be white. It just can't. You either need another color combination of the background or make it less pungent

This. I think we should start actually organizing and delegating roles asap. Anybody who is interested should follow the Facebook page so we can get a bead on how many people are getting involved initially.

m8, people change, don't worry

No we do not want to be that. If we're fit and dress decently not only will we look more presentable to normies (as opposed to crustfags or fat autists) but we'd get more qts which would help a lot with various anons sexual frustrations.

it's not where you came from pal it's where you're going, people's views change over the years.

Thanks. This is somewhat reassuring. Things like the Nazi past from Farage leaking out makes me scared that the same would happen with my past libertarian views. ;_; It makes me fucking paranoid sometimes.

Tbh looking dignified is a huge part of these kinds of things. Even some of the most radical people have been taken seriously because they projected an image of dignity, charisma, and class.

Malcolm X is a perfect example Even though he was a dirty idpoller

Improvements to the logo will come in the future. For now we need to actually organize and get some stuff done.

Everybody fine with GroupMe? Looks like it's for phones, which isn't optimal but I have work in an hour so that lets me stay in contact I guess.

Definitely. Making sure our clothes fit good and match well along with being in decent shape would accomplish this.

And Malcom was based and would have gone full red if he wasn't killed

Some way of staying anonymous would be preferred, since not all leftists here are in countries with freedom of assembly etc.

Tbh a logo like this would be good enough. Keep it simple.

Then they will think we are nazis, m8

Alright this is top priority guys.
What should we use to talk that is anonymous? I'm not sure what to use, googling probably isn't going to find the best one tbh

Holy shit, never saw it that way.

I'll do an internship in a month at an organisation that's related to US lobby politics in Europe (young leaders and shit like that). They will cancel me when they see I'm in something like that. I'll just not give a fuck.

Take a look at: tox.chat

qTox is an okay client

forgot to make this one, think it looks gud?

i'll check it out

Top kek

signed up, seems good, everyone get in on this

okay Tox looks like a good way to go about this, though there isn't a mobile version from what i scrolled through so far.

Of course, what do you guys think?
tox.chat/

wait should we use qTox or uTox, or does it not matter?

I downloaded QTox, think it's the full version instead of the lightweight one

Is there also a non-nsabook page or something more official? I dont have an account other than a dummy one.

...

ID for groupbot i set up:
56A1ADE4B65B86BCD51CC73E2CD4E542179F47959FE3E0E21B4B0ACDADE51855D34D34D37CB5

new to this, hope it works

do we just post our Tox IDs on here and add each other then? I'll let one of the founders create the actual chat itself, simply because I only jumped on this thread recently. But let's all add each other and get some discussion going tonight!

this is muh tox ID, add me guise

56A1ADE4B65B86BCD51CC73E2CD4E542179F47959FE3E0E21B4B0ACDADE51855D34D34D37CB5

...

put your personal tox ID on, we'll all add each other and create our own group chat instead of using that groupbot thing

Yeah, we can either add each other or try joining the group with the id here

id thing here
623AD20A81545F1D4D0F8C386D9B426E5D5FBF5AEAA69832024C7888A57AC0021FF299B189D5

BD4879C2827D6FA8856ABFFDED685BD42C22C0D7429D783184E798C84C445934E3875C88C57D

I tried joining that Groupbot thing, it's a universal code (wiki.tox.chat/users/groupbot) and really confused me haha, think user IDs and adding eachother will be easier

for some reason it says you're already a friend…

oh snap that's that groupbot code which messed me around earlier, not my actual ID, see - just added you

Alright guys I have to work at 4. I'll be on tonight to organize further. For now lets just get this chat thing figured out.

LONG LIVE THE ISSU

my first semester of college starts up in a month, any advice for recruiting for the ISSU?

Do you have a place of organization that isn't Shitbook?

ITT: plans that will fizzle out in less than a month.

sure there will be plenty of discussion to be had about recruitment, especially as like you said, semester starts very soon. We'll need literature, stalls, an active website on the go and all sorts if we're going to make a real go of it. Obviously first semester will be tough as we're only just starting up.

Download qTox, no doubt we'll be discussing there further.

Viva

I think it's incredibly important how clear you make it from the outset that this is anti-idpol–how the only meaningful identity is class. You would not believe how quickly some of these retards can dilute and subvert a leftist organization.

...

cant use tox tbqh fam, suprised we arent using discord or something

If you're starting from scratch then you will want to find some like minded people. Convince a few to join one on one. Once you're together you can organize, start having meetings, and begin a concentrated recruitment effort. That will include some pavement pounding, hand out pamphlets, put up posters, etc. Good places to do this would be near poli-sci, sociology, philosophy, or other social science classes. Try to make connections with other groups that may contain people who could want to join. Establish a friendly relationship with black student unions, youth socdem wings, and the like. They may allow joint activities and they may allow you to come to their meetings to recruit people into cross memberships. There are also bound to be commie profs at any uni, so talk to them, they may be willing to lend a hand.

It's non-free software

aw nuts.

The dude who I presume is one of the main organisers here as just added me on qTox, but he's out at work until 9PM eastern.

Wat do

Holla Forums nearly established a Nazi colony in Africa, even contacted the Namibian government. I'm pretty sure we can pull this off of those retards can get that far.

Environmental issues are not identity politics related however, and only vaguely related to class, yet it is still the biggest issue of our time. Are you implying that it should not be part of the program?

Sure, I'm an eco-socialist myself. I don't see how attention to environmentalism conflicts with anti-idpol.

Wait, wtf? Is this true?

didnt the namibs tell them to fuck off though

LOL VICE did an article on it

vice.com/read/white-colony-in-namibia-773

Top fucking kek

Why you hate us, Vice?

btw is anyone else actually DLing qTox? atm it's just me and one of the main organizers

I'm having some trouble, at least trying to do it on my phone.

9F3766F6737FFB20310E8602E2D90416478C807E92B2936D3EE5634F128A6F4149B3EE816123

I want to get in on this

Use your personal ID, dude (by clicking on your profile pic on top right, you'll see it come up then) - we haven't got a group chat on the go yet just waiting for more numbers and that GroupBot thing (the ID you posted) is really confusing.

Yeah I think qTox (the client we're using) is only for Linux, OS X and Windows - not mobile.

Add'd

E3F237911FA420C2DEF873FA6BEF3B235C310D2564277C7D6F3740509922F469E956642690D9

not sure if I'm doing anything right

6766B35888902153F8D8F5558D24ADF16691AE68CD04F6DF08CF2ED9DC9AF13777ECCE981148

Pls add.

Learn to use the groupbot newfags

okay faggots listen up:
add groupbot at this adress:
56A1ADE4B65B86BCD51CC73E2CD4E542179F47959FE3E0E21B4B0ACDADE51855D34D34D37CB5

then send groupbot the following message:
invite 7 leftypol

its also highly reccomended that you make a nickname for your tox id at: toxme.io/

This allows anyone to look up your id by your nickname. For instance: mine is prickly_cactus

And what sort of NSA spying program is Tox now?

its peer2peer. No middleman. Absolutely safe to use if you use a vpn or something with it.

Idk what's up but sending "invite 7 leftypol" to the groupbot isn't doing anything.

Feel free to join #ISSU on rizon irc

check group invites you might not have noticed it

Is it open or closed-source?

I JUST DID AND MY PASSWORD STARTS LITERALLY WITH GUL-ACK

top fucking kek

tbh I think the consensus is we're gonna use the IRC channel now loool

qchat.rizon.net/?channels=ISSU

webclient link^

This should be a sticky tbqh.

you got it

grats on the sticky faggots

hmm it looks like maybe the sticky actually makes this less noticeable

how is it a union if you only want it to be educative and to a platform for debate like said
you need to have even some general goals
something like demanding free and not privatised univercities and that education is a right not a muh privilege
or removing businesses from the pursuit of knowledge

it's good

I think if we can get a large enough first we can shift from educate to agitate later

We are going to come up with goals, we're just starting to get organized. This idea is literally only several days old.

Literally what the fuck is the point of this.

detroit commune was way more organized than this on day 1

Is there a list of locations/colleges where unions are already set up?

No this all just started. There isnt even a website yet.

...

:^🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀

Serious question tho

Most old fuckers are too entrenched in their ways
Uni students may be one of the few ways that leftism has to grow anymore

Why the gold? Just make this part white as well.

red-white-black combination is related to nazis, while red-gold is related to communism.

kek

this is my ID thing

4BDA986768CA32A79B9A3C7D784DCCDDCE676E52BB79924B4D5EDE7FFB66E66C2B01F2184492

add me

205F6BD6D057EB81C8ADCF4394223E9D1AF2A025189975C0E83559D7C545A76837502E11C00E

We've moved to IRC comrades
>qchat.rizon.net/?channels=ISSU

Right from the get go declaring a dogmatic stance on certain specific issues is THE way of making no one take your left-wing enterprise seriously.

Define yourself in the vaguest terms possible and let your criticism of gun control and SJW politics speak for itself.

So only rich kiddies or debt slaves can be a member of this kool klub?

apparently it's open to highschoolers too

Poetry

...

ircfags a shit

Isn't that the same group of people that gave us Anfem poster and her whipped bf?

And you're surprised they're shit?

sad!

forgot your shitposting flag faggot

lmao

Another highschooler here, I'll be into distributing stuff around my school or whatever. Let people know about it.

if i like it on normiebook all my normiefriends will get offended and ill never have a qt gf, sorry

1. Facebook page✔
2. Logo✔
3. ????????
4. Socialism

Most of the discussion has been going on off leftypol.

...

I think I remember reading an article that said self-proclaimed socialists get laid more often.

dropped
socialistinternational.org/

Alright, I'm downloading Tox, I'm interested in getting this shit started.

I wouldn't take those articles seriously anyways lad.

thats because in america socialist = socdem

don't DL Tox, we bailed on it. Go to the IRC

My point still stands. Detroit was mostly off of Holla Forums too

Where's the IRC?

absolutely BTFO

#ISSU on rizon

what does this mean? english is not my mother language, what happened with the qtox stuff?

Can I make us a candid?

it means they moved on to the different platform

Not a lot of activity. :(

there's only 8 people in the chat right now

D I S C O R D
I
S
C
O
R
D

and no one is saying anything

they're scared of being gulag'd or they're afk

What's the best mobile irc client?

Fuck it I made a candid.

Just go to the candid god damn it. It's nice and organised.

dead project

Get rid of the laurel and red star, it looks too tankie and will scare off anarchists and socdems, but keep the fist and pen. Most student unions I've looked up have this or something similar as the logo. Put the fist in black, with the background red. If you want, put the name or initials somewhere on there.

If we can't even do this; than we might as well just kill ourselves.

...

there was no point in keeping a corpse on the life support

What's a candid.

a shitty app for reactionary 13 year olds

this shit would have succeeded if you didn't abandoned qtox

why is everyone saying this is dead?

Seriously? I just got back from work, came to see what's up. Look like some good stuff was compiled in the riseup pad.

These things take more time than it takes for you guys to make shitposts and threads. Like said, get rid of this defeatist attitude.

nigga you dont even understand what you're advocating.
Qtox is just one of many tox clients.
It's called Qtox because it was developed with the qt gui system.

This, literally wtf. What possibly could have happened in the last couple of hours that warrants totally abandoning this?

Before we get too carried away with this, this is all imaginary until we actually get these clubs/unions going, or if we convince already present socialist student unions to join. If this international union has no members, is it even a union?

Why would we care about idpol? Many universities have progressive/socialist unions already established, and if we want this thing to grow, we have to have the support of these established unions, and it is up to them who gets in and who doesn't. What we can choose is which union gets in. If they want in, or if we want them, simply ask if they think capitalism is the root of the issues of racism, LGBT rights, Feminism, etc. If they agree that it all comes back to capitalism, let them in. If not, they're liberals and have no place here. If we get too dogmatic about this, we will exclude the already established student unions, which will give this thing the critical mass it needs to become a real thing that has influence.

why does this happen?

The revolution doesnt happen overnight guys. Plus, semester hasnt even started in most (or all) places.

stickies make it hard to tell if the thread has a new post on the catalog

I go to a privet bording school, yes call me a class traitor but i had no choice in the matter but i fell that if i engage in subversive activity's like distributing pamphlets i may be expelled so uhh… ya i dont quiet know how to organise resistance in my situation any suggestions

Wait until college. It's usually very easy to start a student organization, or join an already established one.

Before you take too much action, try and form a socialist club at your school. If you mention that you want to form a branch for the ISSU, you'll sound pretty legit, and will be much more likely to be accepted (wait until something is established, like the website or facebook, in case they want to look at something).

This gives you the authority to spread pamphlets, put up posters and whatnot. Otherwise, the school will take them away and you will get in trouble.

you can't submit encripted messages via qchat, that's why qtox is better to organize an alt-left and probably para-militar organization that will be undoubtedly sabotaged by the CIA or by poltards.

i think he means he goes to a privately funded university, not a private high school or w/e

This is important to remember, but in the mean time we can still put together a manifesto and put some infrastructure (website, etc) together.

Once the school year starts we can all go about organizing at our individual schools, ane keep each other updated.

lmfao Holla Forums BTFO

we're still talking on the IRC

To those just joining us now, we are mostly discussing stuff in the IRC here: qchat.rizon.net/?channels=ISSU

Plan on meeting sometime around 9 am or 10 am EST (around 3 pm for those across the pond).

We may need to organize into subgroups to tackle each task, which I imagine the qTox messenger thing may be useful for. This will allow us the most focus and best productivity we can get with the numbers we're seeing so far.

Hey, for an idea that just popped in my head yesterday, I'm glad to see the progress we have made. This thing can be a reality, we just need to act on it.

What day?

whoops, forgot to clarify: tomorrow. I'll be active throughout the week at that time, hopefully we can maintain activity. There are already quite a few people interested, to the point that "shifts" may occur (or something of the like, where some anons quit as others join).

Sounds good. I think that we should use tomorrow as an opportunity to brainstorm and jot down ideas that show a decent amount of support. Afterwards we can set another day and we can go over the ideas and positions we recorded in detail and vote on whether or not to adopt them.

this is a conservative school in a conservative area the minute i mention the word socialist i will automatically be discredited but i suppose their is still hope considering their are some international students who may be a little less chucked full propaganda than the Americans

heres my qtox id: 59123B6DA903128212FF2D01E86F1C26E431E1463F9D71BBEC278868DF8339086C76D4C86362

are we planning on meeting on the IRC?

why does america sound like a dystopia?

Probably because it's been one, for a long time.

well in america when someone asks what communism is in school the reply is that it is an authoritarian system where one man has absolute power and also the privet sector has almost no accountability in the USA

I agree with this, sorta. Some ideas are already supported, and simply need a means of execution. We should use the IRC forum for general discussion, follow the Riseup pad for scheduling and conceptualizing, and organize individually on something like the qTox system for working together on projects. Leftypol will support us with people interested in the organization, if we can begin to lift this off the ground and exist with enough presence to be recognized.

why was FDR's second bill of rights never passed?

;-;

Jesus fuck I am not waking up at 6am in LA for this. Any way to record the discussion so I can read it later? Still would like to be involved if this actually comes together.

ebin

all the conclusions we reach RE: the manifesto will be on the pad for reading afterwards

Shouldn't we organize on tox?

I'm a bit late to the party, I see.

hullo guys

meant to be having a manifesto discussion in the IRC now

rizon.net/chat/#ISSU

==Meeting currently underway.== Notes can be found on the riseup pad here: pad.riseup.net/p/ISSU

Discussion taking place here: qchat.rizon.net/?channels=ISSU

Currently we are working on the manifesto and website, progress today will be affected by our numbers.

This reminds me of (new)SDS. Had fun with that, but it looks like the organization has fallen apart. Not surprising seeing as it was made in reaction to the Iraq/Afghanistan wars and most of the other anti-war groups lost steam fairly quickly. I like that this is more explicitly socialist. One of the people that came to our SDS meetings was also a member of the Democrat's group on campus and tried to push us in a pro-Obama direction. Fortunately she gave up fairly quickly. Still was a fairly small liberal group on my campus.

NEXT MEETING: SATURDAY 20TH AUGUST - 12PM EST (4PM GMT or 5PM CET)

We will be bringing refined points for the manifesto to the meeting to be voted on. As soon as the Mission statement and/or Manifesto is completed, we will be working on contacting other socialist groups (such as those on revleft, reddit (certain subreddits), and so on). A forum is also in the works, and will be further developed during the meeting hopefully.

So what are you guys ganne study first?
Or will it just be constant organisation of stuff that wont happen?

so far the consensus on the IRC seems to be that the international union will function as a network so that unions(new and already existing) can organize together and have a bigger presence on campus and off.

So you guys are going to recruit actuall people on compusses? Okay, but have you guys decided yet what you guys are going study? Like if i an ignorant student was recruited by one of your guys then what for study can i expect? Will it be some contemporary socialist stuff? Orthodox Marxism?

that is up to you and the leader of the group. It's supposed to be a broad tent organization, with no specific ideology aside from anticapitalism and general leftism.

I haven't read every post, but in the UK the Marxist Student Federation exists already, you guys should contact them. They organize Marxist and Socialist societies across the country in universities.

marxiststudent.com/

I thought the group was nonsectarian :^)

Well if so then working with existing organizations shouldn't be a problem, eh?

Update

pad.riseup.net/p/ISSU

qchat.rizon.net/?channels=ISSU

We have decided that if this is to be a permanent fixture, and not fizzle out immediately, we must have our own forum to allow for more people to participate, and to allow for us to divide into groups. Right now we are deciding what the domain name of this forum will be.

Here are the options:
strawpoll.me/11020713/r

strawpoll.me/11020713

sorry wrong link

Judging by how things seem at this moment, each chapter is going to have a lot of autonomy to organize themselves and any actions they want to take. What we'll have in common is that we will all adopt the manifesto and maintain contact with each other to keep tabs on what's going on and co-ordinate activity.

We may also put a reading list together down the road.

This is not Marxist, this is roleplaying.

Throw your grandeur desires away and join your local communist party, work from bottom-up, study your material conditions and create an strategy that is adapted to it. Jesus Christ this is badic Marxism.

The thing I hate the most about this board is how Idealistic some of you can be while sounding Marxist, how you live in your own bubbles where you critize others who dare to act and to compromise themselves.

Join your local C.P. (Communist Party), join your students union, work towards a common, coordinated and strong strategy that can face the cuts in education and the ideological battle in the minds of the young people, thats where th battle starts, not with a fucking facebook page , ffs. The FB page comes after you create a solid, tangible organization, not before.

For many of us there is no Communist Party and the student union on campus is entirely dominated by Repub and Dems and the socialism/communism theory is wholly misunderstood and misrepresented.

Also you act as if you can only be in this or the other group.

Me and the other people at the FB page can promote this after the ball gets rolling a bit. I would at least prefer to have the manifesto thing done, and I can provide some assistance with that if needed.

Good to hear. We will be voting on the points to include in the manifesto on saturday, and will have the mission statement completed. A few of us are working on writing parts for the manifesto individually to review during the meeting, if you are interested in participating.
Otherwise, we will determine an outline (based on the mission statement) for promoting the group at Saturday's meeting. After the forum is up, we are going to begin reaching out to other online groups like revleft, reddit (i know), and so on to spread the word.

...

Many colleges already have a 'progressive' or openly socialist group, so there is no need to establish new ones. The most important part of this is working with socialist groups or students unions that already exist, and getting them to communicate with one another and organize together.

Exactly my point, but this is not the way, comrades.

than what is? How should we organize?

All those options are pretty bad.

If you find a better one, you can put a link and price on the riseup page.

This guy is right. Which is why doing what is suggested in is a good idea; connect existing organizations or movements, don't just try and start your own, fresh from the top down.

That's currently what we're trying to do. A forum is in the works to serve as a platform for connecting everyone. We're looking to announce and open the organization to students and their clubs when that's ready. The manifesto and mission statement are in the works so as to let them know what we're aiming to do with their help.

...

...

lol this is the exact mindset of marxists who tell people not to waste time with memes and social media and distribute pamphlets instead

after sucessive decades of failure you'd expect socialists to be more ready to question accepted knowledges and the alleged results of usual tactics, but apparently not.

christ

...

This. Also the wheat on the side has to go, it screams of old-school, half-the-population-are-peasants communism

That translates into up to 38 chapters m80.

my country's CP (KKE) is a fucking joke.

let's face it, unless the 4th is established and we all agree on a common front instead of arguing about stalin/mao/wherever each of us draws the line in the sand, no serious change in the system will ever happen.

Trotsky is shit too. I'm fed up with Bolshevism and its derivatives. The Marxist left has been running in circles since the revolution failed and the only tendencies that have evolved since are too fringe.

i personally think trotsky does not deviate a bit from marxism-leninism, the revisionist one is stalin. he established the whole cult of personality, revolution in one country, no elections till i die, purge everyone that disagrees with me bs that lenin was also against. I even disagree with trotsky on many things, but I identify as trotskyist simply because i'm an anti-stalinist

but all that is in the past, so these discussions are just marxist circlejerks in 2016

Admiting to yourself that Lenin was wrong without becoming some meme anarchist is an important step of maturing as a leftist.

where do you think lenin was wrong?

Well for one thing single party states never turn out well.

But the party is nothing but a platform druze, having 10 people argue 10 points of view from 10 different parties is no different than having 10 people argue 10 points inside the same party. The party is there to vanguard against capitalism and be the bastion of revolutionary thought and politics within society.

Self-management and self-organization is ok in everyday life, in the workplace for example i'm all for it, but self-organization in state matters is a stress the average person is not eager to have in their lives. most people just want to live their lives

In the sense that the party can't be an instrument of historical change, it can only serve historical necessity. The zig-zags of Soviet policy are proof of this. If you try to create the material circumstances necessary for Socialist accumulation and expansion you will inevitable be left with the party as an autonomous ruling caste, incapable of forming long-term alliances with any class, feeling constantly besieged, and getting the worst possible deals and results from the different sects of the economy. The khulaks were not wrong in acting the way they did, because it's the Bolshevik who forced themselves into the meme position of telling big peasants, industrialists, businessmen, labour unions and finance that it's in their best interest to work for their long-term destruction.

If you want to seize power representing a class, this class has to be there, first. You can't make it out of thin air or exploitation of everyone else. The russian revolution needed an alliance with the peasantry and the petty bourgeoisie against the aristocracy, and then work in the opposition of a new liberal order.

See for the current logo. It's still a work in progress, and I believe we have someone studying art taking a stab at it atm.

Meta-question guys, on Saturday we'll be having another meeting (see ) and there's a chance the skeleton of our new forum will be online. Should I make a new thread and have this one deleted, or will a post do for announcing it to everyone?

yes but the party is not like some closed up elite that people are barred from joining, the party is just the representation of the people's interests. the point where the party becomes obsolete is when the conditions are ripe for full-blown communism, and of course the party should theoretically dissolve itself peacefully then since, being communists after all, they realize and accept this inevitability.

I realize that this is how it's supposed to work in theory, but in practice it typically becomes an oligarchic institution that tows a specific line. This is especially dangerous in the context of a centrally planned economy, where the government is already by necessity sprawling and has a top-down structure.

Also I know I'm going to catch shit for this, but I would argue that if we want to maintain ideals like freedom of speech, consciousness, assembly/association, and political freedom, then we will have to allow liberals and liberal parties to continue existing. If you believe in equal rights to political participation and petitioning of the government then you can't have a single group with a specific ideological line totally dominating the political process.

If you're unironically parroting slogans like this in 2016 there's no point in talking to you, because it would be like thinking I can talk people out of a cult. I think not even the Bolsheviks from the early 20's until Stalinism would be able to claim, with a straight face, that the party represents the people's interests, because they're first of all representing a class that is largely inexisting and mostly already absorbed within their ranks, and second because threat of political influence from other classes lead them to shut down all mechanisms of popular participation in politics. The whole "well but everyone can join the party!" is ridiculous also because the threat of purge and the job opportunities that comes with being a member were enough to instill discipline.

lol nigga please. This isn't Leninism, and it's definitely not Marxism.

The fact that it was like that historically doesn't mean it's the way it should be.

As for allowing liberal parties, by accepting that liberalism itself is a valid form of ideology you would undermine the validity of the redistribution of wealth, since you'd imply that it was just a random event that happened because the party came to power and not the inevitable progress of society as dictated by DM.

Marxists do accept liberalism as having a historical role and are not for redistribution of wealth. You haven't read the basics.

I don't think that you can really have democracy without giving everybody equal right to political participation, and you can't have that if the system is dominated by one ideology or group of ideologies.

38 chapters with 1 member each wow

You realize we're planning on recruiting more people at each individual school right?

yes, but it has no role to play after socialism

are you high?

socialism doesn't mean democracy. democracy implies the average joe knows what's good for him and can't be easily manipulated, which is of course not true. a vanguard party is essential to impose socialism, if it wasn't you wouldn't need socialism in the first place.

Which is why almost every socialist before the USSR advocates for democracy right?

I'd rather live in a liberal democracy than a "socialist" dictatorship. As far as I'm concerned if you are just going to replace capitalist oligarchy with another oligarchy then there's no point.

ye, except that this new "oligarchy" represents the interests of the people, doesn't accumulate capital, doesn't exploit the working class, and is not closed like i mentioned before. no one is barred from joining, no one is born into it

damn you're not even a marxist, i hope you enjoy your liberalism in whichever republic you live

and of course doesn't fuck the earth with imperialistic wars, global warming, geoengineering etc

Worker councils are the best way to reach the political actualization of the DOTP. The USSR utterly failed in that regard. The all powerful Vanguard to lead the working class also implies that the vanguard will be infallible.

...

What ensures that it will represent he interests of the people? And if anybody can join, then what about people who are opposed to socialism? If so then what's the point of the vanguard? If not then only the people who tow the party line can hold political power, which creates an oligarchy, and there has never been an oligarchy that hasn't abused its power.

so your argument against leninism is "muh human nature"?

self-organization works on a local scale, but cannot be the way affairs of the state are handled

Why would it not?

those are enemies of the people, they're in goli otok breaking rocks

it's not an oligarchy when ANYONE CAN JOIN

My argument against Leninism is that it relies on an oligarchy not acting like an oligarchy. Also putting a segment of the population in a position of near-absolute political power alters their material conditions and relationship to the means of production. Even by the laws of DM doesn't that mean that they will inevitably act in rational self interest and abide their power? The whole point of socialism is to remove vertical power structures so that nobody will have the capacity or motivation to subjugate their fellow man.

Because there somewhat of a historical precedent of people abusing power once they have it.

Right, as long as they tow the party line. So basically the only people capable of influencing the government will be people who already agree with the government.

So your version of socialism has no freedom of speech, conscience, association or political activity? How is this liberation?

It's not a separate body of rule, it is composed of the people. The councils would vote for delegates or whatever, who would eventually become members of the Party. Instantly re-callable. The purpose of the state in this case is to ensure defense and wellness, in the sense of pursuing the people's interest at the time (in the USSR, it was state programs that brought the peasants out of illiteracy and doubled their average lifespans). The State needs to be capable dealing with things large scale, rapidly.

I disagree. I'm not even asking for self organization, worker councils can have representatives but I don't believe in putting all my faith in one part.

If someone has a way of which they can exercise force to benefit themselves, they will make use of it.

Anyone can join, but would they be getting the same leverage in decision making as higher-ups? Absolutely not.

Tbh I don't see what purpose the party fulfills after socialism is established. If worker's councils and local communities are electing representatives and delegates then why does the party need to be involved at all?

You miss the main point. They aren't an oligarchy since the party is composed by the people itself. It's not a ruling class, they are representatives that are elected.

there was also historical precedent of slavery before it was abolished. this isn't an argument

You mean socialism? Which is bad how exactly?

My version of socialism is one that molds people's mentality into what it should be. I wholeheartedly believe that after 200-300 years of socialism things like racism, sexism, nationalism, religion etc will have become archaic relics of the past that everyone mocks. Until then though, the average uneducated individual should be protected from reactionary propaganda. If you think he shouldn't, you're deluding yourself

The average person simply doesn't want to have to deal with affairs of the state on a daily basis. I firmly believe that, and in my opinion that's a reason why the average joe let socialist states fall into capitalism again even if it meant they had to buy their state-provided homes from the government, they'd lose free education and healthcare etc. They took that simply because they just wanted to go on with every day life. So to think that people will actively participate in government every single day is naive

If someone does that, they will not get elected into office again. All key positions in the party should be decided with elections, hence why i oppose stalinistic dictatorship

But everyone has the chance to become those higher ups, since those higher ups get elected. Again, councils should have the power to remove even the general secretary from power. The reason it did not happen in the ussr is because of stalinistic reforms

Which is why I said the worker councils could have representatives. Lenin agreed with most of Rosa'a critiques of ML but excused it away "cuz we agrarian nd sheit"

Socialism is only truly established once the world is purged of it's bourgeois factions. The party is an element of the state, which is mostly necessary for organizing the revolution,as the country surely will combat other states. I agree that the party isn't too necessary after worldwide socialism is established, for then all production is geared directly towards people's needs. The state (party) only needs to exist to effectively direct production towards oppressing the bourgeois for so long as they exist. Then the state (and the party, perhaps) may begin to wither away.

Setting up national or local subgroups is not splitting; its just fucking practical. Do you even know what an International is?

Different places have different existing organizations and structures, different rules about how to operate in universities, different political climates.

Keeping these subgroups as one International is key, but having local sections is vital in order to actually operate.

Smh the lack of theory from someone claiming the Read a Book flag; you know that flag was designed as a /freedu/ flag - its for people who actually want to understand revolutionary theory.

You need to fucking calm down man, holy shit. Humor is the most revolutionary medium.

Ah, the classic "I was only joking" response to being shown to be talking shit. Brilliant

Oh the classic "I am the edgelord fear me" response to humor. Leave this board please

Is this post supposed to be ironic or did you miss the times where Zizek explains how comedy is often used to reinforce the ruling ideology?

zizek has said many times that jokes (often vulgar ones) are used to create bonds between people

Lol you can read it like that if you want m80

Edgy.

I'm not particularly impressed so far (not having USSR stance is the essence of self-defeatism in Left), but you are really going over the top here.

Establishing your own (heretical and revisionist) reading circle is a workable approach. Though I expect some eventual Posadism taking root. It's not that different from simply joining local Party without understanding who and what they are.

Why can't I speak Greek? I knew they were good …

R-right.

Do we have any state that turned out good? Because down that road Somali lies.

wew lad, careful with that edge

Use a quote. I don't even know what you are talking about.

Besides, there is no edge. Icepicks are piercing.

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

E D G Y

Somebody start a new thread.

My options are beyond shitty. I have two communist parties here, one is 100% true Stalinist with an absurd ideological purity and call everybody revisionist. They are totally isolated and have interior structures not unlike religious sects, binding families to the organisation socially.

The other one has an average age of 67.

So i could either join a Stalinist version of scientology or a bunch of mummies. I'm sure that's not gonna be a total waste of time…

You should see if you can enlist the support of the mummies for the ISSU.

Quality posting.

I'll start a new thread if I can figure out a way to make this one go away (sage only?). Don't want two of these floating around.

I vote Stalinist. Apparently we are drowning in Stalinist parties, except I can't find a single one.

Btw, do they really call themselves Stalinist?

Wait for bumplimit? I think it's 350 here.

Its cycled, it won't reach bump limit. Learn2chan lads

Okay in that case I'll start a new thread for the meeting tomorrow in the morning sometime. Thought today was the 20th for some reason…

MLPD has Stalin as a key part of their ideology. And I'd feel really uncomfortable joining, the way they peer pressure people, have the same chairman since 30 years, etc

I don't know why being utilitarian towards Stalin makes you a defeatist. Shit is in the past. There is nothing wrong with being a ML but you have give it to people in small dosages or else you'll just be a LARPer.

Why do you think there are no right-wing organisations that has an official stance to Hitler? It's because only the left has this weird obsession with what some people did 90 years ago in an agrarian society that they add an -ism to their name and imply this ideology has any sort of relevance in 2016.

If you start a new thread, tell the mods to un-cycle this one, or you're gonna end up clogging the board and confusing people, they'll end up posting in both etc.

Germany? You should have at least two more: DKP and KPD.

Which ones are the mummies? One of them had was some sort of Marxist education going in Hannover, IIRC.

KPD was outlawed in the 50s and the DKP is practically the successor organisation. A few years ago, there was a tiny party calling themselves KPD again (Marxist-Leninist) with like 300 members but I have no idea if they still exist.

This logo is nice.

When is the meeting going to be? And will it be in an IRC?

They also got called KPD-Ost, right?
Anyway, found them: k-p-d-online.de/ Still alive.

If those are the mummies, then - yeah. Join either of them. They are sufficiently Stalinist ML.

Right-wingers are cargo-cultists. Of course they don't have any sort of consistency or coherency. They don't need ideology to provide practical solutions. It's there to LARP on a grand scale, like Reich did with Aryans. To distract people. To tell them stories.

But Left actually uses ideology. It is needed to understand how to make shit happen. And to make it happen, you need to learn things. To understand how things work.

And so people get this "weird obsession" for the same reason we have physical laws named after dudes who died two millennia ago. And you can try telling me, that those laws do not have any relevance today. I'll have a good laugh. You need to put labels on things.

Like the law of Archimedes is.

Pretend that you are going to fight with someone, and he promises that he will treat you nice if he wins, provided that you do not bring any weapons to the fight. What will you do?

But the question is not people. People (who will be organized) will get offered practical solutions, without "Stalin said so" or "Lenin tried it and it worked" (unless they like Lenin or Stalin already).

The question is you personally. Do you want to learn anything? Because this is the logic that says "since most people think that Earth is flat, I shall not learn anything that contradicts it".

Soviet Union was the greatest success of Socialist movement. If you are pretending that it wasn't, you either have a very Utopian idea about Socialism (i.e. "it is effectively impossible in my lifetime and I should not even try doing anything about it") - which is no different from SocDem (Venezuela), or some cargo-cult nonsense a-la Posadism. And in the latter case you'll be lucky if you don't actually get to pull anything off, because result will be Makhno's Free State/Cambodia (AnCom/LeftCom).

Moreover, USSR had at least 5 different stages: War Communism, NEP, Planned Economy, Bureaucratic "Socialism", Perestroika. That's 5 different kinds of Socialism, each different from modern realities and different from each other. There is literally no excuse for anyone interested in Socialism not to learn anything about USSR.

Meeting tomorrow Saturday 20th - 12PM EST (4PM GMT or 5PM CET)
Link to IRC here: qchat.rizon.net/?channels=ISSU

Here's a banner idea if anyone wants to play with it.

use this as a logo

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wasn't bunkerchan meant for everyone ?

Dammit, I won't make it. Maybe the next one m80s

It is, #ISSU are being retarded thinking there is some bunkerchan conspiracy to take them a peg down.

Everyone on bunkerchan (pretty much) posts here anyway, its not some kind of opposition

everyone on bunkerchan that posts here is one or all of the following:

and you'd be surprised how many fall under the "all" category

Which one am I?

Also semi related I think this is hilarious
never change, comrades, never change.

shut up bunkerite reeeee

Fixed the color of the logo

So who will write the manifesto ?
My vote is for any Hegelian Marxist or nechayev-ist here

I'm working on it right now.

These are all forms of narcisism and I don't know why they are so wrong.

I thought this was a chan…

Define.

Looks lavely gomrade, good work.

I feel like we should further subdivided into high school and university chapters the high school people can focus on educating people and converting them wail the uni people focus on more direct action stuff as well as organizing

MEETING @ 12PM EST (4PM GMT or 5PM CET)

see for goals of the meeting. Chat can be found here

That'd be cool if half the people active on irc weren't banned. The paranoia is strong

only one person is banned, fuck off bunkertard

I'm pretty sure you banned c0nker too. That makes two, which is half the people on the channel.

Sadly, a lot of normies don't have a favourable view of AntiFa. It's the whole violence thing.

...

Hey, I was thinking about starting some sort group at my high school in association with the ISSU. Anyone have any ideas about how I can do this? Anyone willing to start it with me?

Dropped

don't wanna shill for him but prickly dindu nuffin tbh
bunkerfags were being rude and despite that we let some stay

we're in the same position tbh
I suggest you join something that will let you push for reforms so you have the options to make clubs, over here we have the students' parliament which could be useful for that
Also join the IRC, we might have some idea how to help you out

So were you a mole for Holla Forums all along :^)

You autistic piece of shit

Why don't you fix your board instead of this faggotry?

Nice raid you fucking Holla Forumsyp

another autist, great. kill yourself

Which board? I have barely even been involved with this ISSU thing.

#anarcho, you spanner.

...

>>>/anarcho/

...

I mean the neocities page still needs work and I need to cycle and unsticky some of the stickies. I've legit just been lazy with the neocities page and also working a lot lately, tbh. But, what else needs to be done with the board itself?

Why don't you faggots use the damn council thread if you want work to be done that I don't already have on the to-do list? Or better yet, put in some work yourselves :^)

Can you not read retard?

I havent been on in a while did something happen?

Which is your favourite DTRASH release?

what ?

I bought their whole collection so I haven't listened to everything yet, but so far I'm a big fan of JUL!E D:STROY and 64Revolt

64revolt is pretty cute. I like DK Dance and Babylon Disco too.

the ISSU is not dead comrades! Holla Forums's electronic sabotage did no long lasting harm.

No but your management did.

Eyyyy

We gud?

we lost the more detailed version of the manifesto, but that's it.

since Holla Forums kiddies keep raiding the chat we continue this on Tox until their thread dies

urgent update
the irc channel now requires a key to get in, message someone that has the key on tox or irc

Im ruined and i have the key

just organize at your campus and stop focusing on social media and stuff. Just go under a generic name at your campus if you want to be independent. The most important thing is irl organizing, not whatever this is.

I thought we're a union. Not the Illuminate

I dunno bout dat. That's a pretty tall order.

kek
I knew I used the right words there
you lads always take the bait, don't you?

Who's taking the bait? Holla Forumsack scum

btw we got a dropdown menu as well now

Sure fam.

I didn't even do anything, I left before that happened

bump

I say we just move to the forum. It's just easier that way.

fuck off shill