How can hipster califaggots ever compete
Worlds first risc-v linux development board is here!
Evan Gray
Justin Myers
You guys don't know how to use a switch?
You don't need two ethernet ports to use this as a router...
Jonathan Phillips
Because RISC is the future and has been since the 80s.
It was the standard in the 90s but WINTEL popularized legacy CP/M and PC technology instead.
Connor Hall
Yes, because they suck. C programs have to be locked up so they can't hurt each other. That's the reason for Unix's existence. C programs already hurt themselves a lot but they've given up on preventing that.
The Lisp machine.
bitsavers.org
bitsavers.org
"Operating system" means the code included on the machine when you buy it. There's no distinction between the OS and the applications.
Lisp is the main language, but you can use any other language. RISCs drag everything down to the C level. Lisp machines raise the level of every other language. They inherit the garbage collection and runtime checks of Lisp.
If there's one thing which truly pisses me off, it is theattempt to pretend that there is anything vaguely "academic"about this stuff. I mean, can you think of anything closerto hell on earth than a "conference" full of unix geekspresenting their oh-so-rigourous "papers" on, say, "SMURFY:An automatic cron-driven fsck-daemon"?I don't see how being "professional" can help anything;anybody with a vaguely professional (ie non-twinkie-addled)attitude to producing robust software knows the emperor hasno clothes. The problem is a generation of swine -- bothprogrammers and marketeers -- whose comparative view of unixcomes from the vale of MS-DOS and who are particularlysusceptible to the superficial dogma of the unix cult.(They actually rather remind me of typical hyper-reactionarySoviet emigres.)These people are seemingly -incapable- of even believingthat not only is better possible, but that better could haveonce existed in the world before driven out by worse. Well,perhaps they acknowledge that there might be room for someincidental clean-ups, but nothing that the boys at Bell Labsor Sun aren't about to deal with using C++ or Plan-9, or,alternately, that the sacred Founding Fathers hadn'texpressed more perfectly in the original V7 writ (if only wepaid more heed to the true, original strains of the unixcreed!) In particular, I would like to see such an article separate, as much as possible, the fundamental design flaws of Unix from the more incidental implementation bugs.My perspective on this matter, and my "reading" of thematerial which is the subject of this list, is that the twoare inseparable. The "fundamental design flaw" of unix isan -attitude-, and attitude that says that 70% is goodenough, that robustness is no virtue, that millions of usersand programmers should be hostage to the convenience orlaziness of a cadre of "systems programmers", that one'stime should be valued at nothing and that one's knowledgeshould be regarded as provisional at best and expendable ata moment's notice.My view is that flaming about some cretin using afixed-sized buffer in some program like "uniq" says just asmuch about unix as pointing out that this operating systemof the future has a process scheduler out of the dark agesor a least-common-denominator filesystem (or IPCs or systemcalls or anything else, it -doesn't matter-!)The incidental -is- fundamental in dissecting unix, much asit is in any close (say, literary or historical) reading.Patterns of improbity and venality and outright failure arerevealed to us through any examination of the minutiae ofany implementation, especially when we remember that onecornerstone of unix pietism is that any task is really nomore than the sum of its individual parts. (Puny tools forpuny users.)And speaking of revealing patterns of abuse throughobservation of detail, has anybody considered that unixgeeks might be Adult Children or Survivors or be permanentlyIn Recovery? Perhaps they were sodomised by an awk at ayoung age, leading to a parodoxical attachment to the agentof their humiliation? If we could persuade them them tospend all their time attending pop-psych workshops in thewoods ("Fire in the John"), beating drums and invoking theshade of Dennis Ritchie, we could keep them away from theirkeyboards...
Dylan Peterson
A graveyard. Because that's what's left of their bullshit today. Nobody uses MULTICS, Lisp machines, VAX, mainframes or bullshit like that any more.
Plan 9 had some good ideas and that's why it still has a pulse today. Same with BeOS and RISC OS. But these frauds? Fuck 'em.
Adam Roberts
UNIX weenies like UNIX because they don't know anything about these operating systems. The real bullshit is shills telling you not to learn things because it makes their shit OS look bad.
Plan 9 is a "gray hair on a wart on a mole" that still makes you use tar to copy directories.
BeOS and RISC OS do have some good ideas.
You want to talk about fraud? The UNIX "geniuses" have not invented a single new idea. They invented some shitty programming languages like C, awk, and bc, but none of those languages did anything new.
Section 30.02 of _Unix Power Tools_ by O'Reilly & Associates says ... /ispell/, originally written by Pace Willison ...but hey, I was there when Pace ported the ITS SPELL programto C. Sure I am grateful to have a few reminders (^Z isanother one) of bygone glories around, but let's give creditwhere credit is due! Legend tells of a Chinese Emperor whoordered books burned so all knowledge would be credited tohis reign. I guess the subsequent generation of scholarswere a lot like the Weenix Unies of today.
Yesterday Rob Pike from Bell Labs gave a talk on the latestand greatest successor to unix, called Plan 9. Basically hedescribed ITS's mechanism for using file channels to controlresources as if it were the greatest new idea since thewheel.There may have been more; I took off after he credited Unixwith the invention of the hierarchial file system!
We long ago resigned ourselves to using Unix, and with itwe've resigned ourselves to its odd syntactic idioms.We've all long ago resigned ourselves to using TAR to copyfiles. It no longer seems a travesty, only a wart.In the midst of all this resignation, only unix-haterscauses us to stop and wonder, where we would otherwisemerely give up and move on.I'm pausing to share my wonder with you at this gray hair ona wart on a mole. (Please, no informative replies.)% cd /adoc/ruble/src/xloadimage-3.01% (cd /project/pagemill/utils/xloadimage-3.01/; tar cf - . ) | tar xBpf -tar: directory checksum error (0 != 4451)% cd /project/pagemill/utils/xloadimage-3.01/ % tar cf - . | (cd /adoc/ruble/src/xloadimage-3.01 ; tar xBpf - )%
This has indeed puzzled me about FSF. Here is an organization with incredibly lofty (IMHO misguided, but lofty) political ideals, and apparently no technological or engineering ideals whatsoever. It's as if there were a shite cartel charging high prices for shite, and a counter-culture grassroots movement agitating that shite should be free. For those who want shite, I guess it matters.This is an insult to shite. At least things can grow inshite, while everything dies in U***. Both stink.
Evan Perez
No, the reason is because YOUR shit OS is so irrelevant and bad that nobody ever uses it anymore.
you never needed to do that in the first place. Try cp -r
What particular ideas are those?
also,
I thought you said you hated RISC? Or are you only referring to the OS?
Really?
Pick one.
Owen Brown
I'm guessing you don't actually know much about Plan 9?
man.9front.org
Henry Harris
I can respect anyone who has a passion for technology and does what he likes doing.
You are a zealot. No one likes you, not even Lisp engineers, because you're giving them a bad name.
If you were to become and engineer and implement a Lisp machine, you could talk about that. That would be fun. You bitchin' though, is not very interesting.
Ethan Murphy
ah, so Plan 9 does not have this?
Interesting..
I can assure you that any other modern implementation of a Unix or Unix-like OS has this feature.
In fact, I just checked, and it's not just a GNUism. GNU has it, FreeBSD has it (and macOS by extension), OpenBSD has it, NetBSD has it, and even IllumOS (OpenSolaris-based) has it.