So when are we getting kicked out ?

someone made a thread on the admin's board >>>/sudo/4078 you can chime in your 2 cents

>>>/sudo/4104

Well that's alarming. Blatantly made-up boogeyman bullshit from the people running the site. This is making me think Holla Forums really is no longer of use to us. Thoughts?

Oh boy here we go.

We (just for example) will probably be framed as shills for what is grabbing pollyps attention at the moment, and then purge'd. Welp, it was a fun ride; and if it indeed does happen I'll miss a lot of shitposting faggots from here And thanks for the being the best BO, BO

I'd be content to move to bunkerchan

if bunkerchan wasn't so shit

Holla Forums won't go away just because 8ch is dying. We can move to a backup site like Bunkerchan.

What complaints do you have about Bunkerchan?

is it still hosted in australia?

The UI is clunky.

8ch dies when it dies. We've had the bunker and other sites as backups for a long time before the latest sperg-out. Business as usual until it proves otherwise.

IDK. Does that matter?

Well, that's imageboards for you.

I think that Holla Forums would take a real beating if it were to shut down before we got a chance to organize a migration. On the other hand, if we migrate preemptively, I don't think there would be many negative consequences.

At least they are not sending you in prison for denying crimes of Communism. **Or setting you on fire.*

Why would that be? And what is with the paranoia? Worst comes to worst - there is this bunkerchan abomination.

This:

We'd shed some newfags and a lot of polyps who never bothered to read what is right in front of them. Good riddance on the latter at least.

Stating that "we" will migrate, however, implies that this place will no longer exist. You can't enforce it any other way. Even if you do kill leftypol, because that's what's being suggested here, someone could just make another until this place finally eats itself. Why bother pushing something until we know for sure what's happening?

8ch and even halfchan look and work better than bunkerchan. It's bare-bones coding with no understanding for design or utility. Hell, I still can't even figure out how to change the theme there.

yes. the legal and regulatory rules in Australia are not conducive to free speech or privacy. the owner would legally be required to maintain a certain level of logging and could be held responsible for contented posted by the users. when the site was first launched it was hosted in Australia and the hosting provider completely blocked all tor users and some vpn/proxy users by simply dropping all packets.

isn't it just vichan?

I've never understood this mentality. What I've observed is that on the occasions where Holla Forums is down for a day or two, bunkerchan remains pretty much a ghost town. This seems to me to be evidence that even regular users would give up if Holla Forums was suddenly destroyed.

This just sounds like drama for drama's sake.

I'm not going to do anything suddenly. I'm just afraid that the new Holla Forums admins are behaving erratically. I want to gather information right now.

If we end up needing to move, I might see about changing the board software (either communicating with the lynxchan dev to improve it, or switching to something else).

That would be a problem. I'll keep that in mind.

If it's down for a day or two, perhaps people are waiting for it to come back up? Just a thought.

That so? Every time something rumbles there are thoughts of shutting this place down and it's getting annoying. What's always ignored is that it would be the board owner making that decision, not the userbase.

Then that's all that matters. The idea of this place suddenly shutting down because of some bullshit pinned to the top of the board pissed me off.

It'd be better to do it now, so there won't be any problems if shit hits the fan.

As the BO, it has annoyed me as well. However, I think a lot of past drama was really forced, and I also thought 8ch had potential to actually grow in the future. Now it seems like the site admins themselves are promoting a /gghq/ mindset, which could really fuck things up for us in a way that past problems couldn't. And it's pretty much proven now that 8ch has no potential to grow in the future.

I won't do anything if there's a big uproar obviously, but imageboard democracy is impossible, so it's going to come down to my decision eventually. And I don't think a lot of people here are terrible attached.

I'd imagine a fair amount of the posts (all?) on Holla Forums that they interpret as paid shills from CDR or the Elders of Zion or whatever are actually just members of other boards like Holla Forums who go over there occasionally to have some fun triggering them (which is often as easy as just posting some real-world info which goes against their worldview and therefore must be Jewish propaganda).

literally all of the "CTR shill" posts on 4/pol/ were blatantly obvious troll threads, but autists ate it up anyways.

Tbh it's probably Holla Forums trolling Holla Forums

The admins and codemonkeys of this hole have always had a screw loose, that's no big secret, and there was that leak not that long ago that showed how fucking incompetent they were at data security. This place has always carried risks, but we've put up with it because bunkerchan is not leftypol, simply put. If you want the userbase to move, there has to be a better place to go. If you want to start developing that – great.

If we moved to bunkerchan, I would make some changes. For one, I would rename the main board to Holla Forums, and probably get simpler default CSS. I would bring over the stickies, banners, wordfilters, and so on. I'm not talking about forcing everyone to move over to bunkerchan as it is. If we did a migration, it would literally mean moving the entire Holla Forums board onto bunkerchan.

Very interesting that free speech is not the simple act of being able to say whatever you want, but it's "freedom from outside influence". Freedom of speech is this hallowed right that must be defended, but the way to defend it is apparently to stop "shills". This isn't specifically said, but it is inferred. A shill is determined by being against the grain of thought, and "as a community" everyone is required to be vigilant and wary of shills.

I mean, I agree that there are a lot of people out there who wish to take hold of communities and turn their narrative around, but you don't combat that by actually taking away freedom of speech.

The issue here is obviously us being framed as "shills" that need to be stopped to protect free speech, but I really think the best and most successful way to do that, and for the ideas of this site to be lost forever to however worse an example for the right wing Holla Forums can be, is for us to leave.

They want us to leave so their board doesn't have anything against the grain, but the worst that can happen is what is already happening; accusations and shitposting.

I don't think we should leave nor there is a reason to.

There's still the problem of bringing a horse to water and making it drink. Leftypol has inertia behind it. You'd need to end this place to cement the move. Eg. lock the board with a big announcement and a link. Polyps might follow, but it's better than losing everyone.

I think it would be a good idea to start importing stuff just as a precaution, if possible. If you resolve outstanding issues, as already mentioned, and even made further improvements, then there would be no reason to remain here.

Now you've clarified things, it's not sounding so bad.

Christ, you melodramatic faggots. It's just an announcement that the site owner is in favor of freedom of speech. There's no call to ban any users or boards.

Yeah.
It sounds like a reaction to CTR. Anyone who isn't a legit paid shill or an extremely proactive troll most likely has nothing to worry about.

It is truly amazing that something of this magnitude of LARPing could come straight from the official administration of Holla Forums. This fucking shithole cannot die soon enough.

pls bo pls pls pls pls pls not bunkerchan pls pls pls you have no idea how faggy they are

What if leftypol started a patreon to host and develop a new leftypol website?
It would work like this:
some of the donations will be used to host the site, and the rest of the donations will be used to set bounties for improvements to the site, and then users can contribute to the project and get compensated for their work.
I think this is a fair and collectivized system.

It's like polacks keep and cultivate opinions that are so stupid and odious that they're already not upheld by the vast majority of people but are also constantly in danger of being seen as ever more irrelevant or being watered down by still reactionary but less extreme views. You could almost say that they're 'endangered'.

Holla Forums are conservationists and they don't even know it.

Well that certainly adds to their ideas of tradition and 'culture' needing to be upheld; since they are intrinsically superior, but can't exist naturally.

Really they just need to feel under attack 100% of the time. If jews didn't exist I'm sure they would invent them.

This tbh >>>/sudo/4164

Why would anyone believe that CTR shills would bother targetting a small, dying internet imageboard that is mostly a community for Nazis and other reactionaries?

This sounds like the pansiest shit I've ever read.

BECAUSE Holla Forums IS LITERALLY THE WHITE LIBERATION FRONT YOU FUCKING DEGENERATE CUCKLORD

IT'S NOW OR NEVER

This image is so fucking dumb.

Hotwheels is a leftist. GG at least for the first year, was mostly left-leaning, outside of the Holla Forumsyps.

You get called a shill on Holla Forums for acknowledging the Holocaust happen so.

So you fagboys couldn't hande the bantz afterall?

hey BO, will you fucking de-mod Prickly_Cactus already? he is the biggest problem this board has, no joke.

BANTER STATUS
HANDLED [ ]
NOT HANDLED [X]

When she fascist but the booty too fat.

...

That's why they're the women you silly goose.

We've had invasions since for ever.
Though IMO the reddit type ones have increased lately…

As long as BO doesn't let the shitposting go rampant, everything will be fire.

Please stop spreading misinformation.

Fredrick Brennan is a Ron Paul-esque libertarian. He said so himself.

Jim is a Republican with socially liberal views. He is pro-capitalist and supports the troops, but is not a stormtard as he frequently makes hashtags on his Twitter against racism and anti-LGBT discrimination. His wife and kids are brown skinned Filipinos.

Ron has similar views that he picked up from his father, but is not as interested and informed in politics, news or economics. The only political news he finds interesting involve free speech on the internet, SOPA/PIPA, free software vs. open source, and anything else related to computer software and cyber laws. When you guys accuse him of "starting a false flag to reign in power" or "preparing a purge," he has no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about because he is ignorant about political history, and thinks you guys are whiny conspiracy theorists. Educate, don't verbally attack.

t. newfag

How do you know it's made up?

pepe and Holla Forums are also women in that pic. is it satire of the rest of the site from our own board though? looks too autistic and stupid to be serious.

There is no difference between man and women, so it doesn't matter what gender they are.

...

Yeah, you can tell because of the images used for the Holla Forums users. Those are our memes, which make no sense outside of the board.

where's the proofs

I thought pol occasionally used that pic of the soviet soldiers as actual anti-communist propaganda on their own board. then again… yui.

>>>/gamerghazi/

Christ you sound like an enormous faggot.

What are your complaints about them? It's true, I have no idea what it's like on bunkerchan, but really it just seems to be a dead board right now.

It's obvious fearmongering that has typically been used in the past by nutcases like Acid Man. It's a bad sign.

Do you have a complaint that isn't some kind of IRC drama?

Correct The Board is real, and have turned their attention to chans now.

Drop some quality proof then boiiii

that he gets butthurt and bans people arbitrarily isn't an IRC issue.

you faggots are pathetic

As demonstrated by this post, Holla Forumslacks have started lurking ITT because of this post:
>>>Holla Forums7108878
Yes Holla Forumslack, I know CTR is real. I have actually banned a couple of people for posting CTR talking points here in the past. I don't really know or care whether they got paid to post it. I doubt Hillary Clinton's SuperPAC is spending thousands of dollars to try to convince a site full of Nazis and pedophiles that Hillary is the best.

If CTR really was trying to D&C this site, then the easiest way to do that would be to make everyone paranoid and get the mods to start banning people left and right. Which, incidentally, is what happens on Holla Forums all the time.

Are you the anfem who posted in the feedback sticky?

Don't forget there's also endchan.xyz/leftypol/

Let's all move to 16chan

people literally get banned from bunkerchan and the #bunkerchan irc for "talking shit about bunkerchan". Also they openly promote totalitarianism and that should not be acceptable.

this is probably the funniest OC Holla Forums put out

I support this

I've seen nothing but bad news and drama from those sites. Is there a reason you think they'd be worth moving to, and any different from 8ch?

I suspect they have a casual attitude to that sort of thing because they don't actually have an active website. I would make sure everyone agreed against petty bans before moving there.

I take that back.
God its so awful. It takes so long for every page to load and the homepage of that site straight up eats up the entire cpu core my browser is dedicated to.

Can't tell you about 16chan's userbase, but Josh and the software are both based.

Hey BO, CTO of bunkerchan here. I'm willing to migrate the stuff over,

Fuck off prickly.

I claimed the /bunkers/ board. A Holla Forumsack claimed Holla Forums and put a Hillary ad at the top.

pls don't flood it with traffic I'm not in a position to moderate it for a while

please dont fall for his irish tricks bo

all IRC fagmasters should be kulak'd tbh

not a poltard, and pol is fucked. A guy on /newsplus/ posted a article on it, and linked me to this thread. They'll influence major sites and sites that have any real say, and even if this site has a small say, they'll try to influence it.
8ch.net/newsplus/res/10690.html

Google it, their name is practically everywhere. Really - do you not know they'll go for major influence centers (which this chan isn't) to major opposition centers (which this chan by a landslide undoubtedly is)? Think like an angry grudgeful old woman with money grabbers and do-gooders under her - "those people said mean things about me - let's make it so they don't". A movement on image will try to censor what most smears that image. It's been noticed on reddit: reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4w4lqz/hillary_correct_the_record_shills_are_flooding/

gotta admit - I would hate to be a pol or leftypol mod - shit must be headache inducing

The trick is to already be severely depressed and disillusioned with the state of the world so that this kind of stuff wont phase you

Josh is a mess. Never mind.

I think there is some concern about IRC drama and things like that effecting the board moderation. What sort of role would you be inclined to take in moderating a Holla Forums board on Bunkerchan? I don't want people doing revenge bans or anything like that. I've already had to delete two volunteers because of it.

It's okay if you don't put your ego into it or get emotionally invested. The worst is when someone is posting stuff that pisses you off, but you aren't sure whether it should be banned or not.

Only banned people on IRC. Three people Prickly_Cactus for shit talking bunkerchan where ever he goes and insulting the admin. ComradeVac for driving every conversation to veganism and insulting the admin. Paint(goods) for being a general nuisence

I haven't banned anyone on bunkerchan.org other then spam bots. I take a backseat role and make improvements to the frontend.

sounds like you reached adulthood. good luck and good job

sounds like you got it in control. not to take things personally can save you from alot of headaches. If it gets to you take a quick break or two, thought you probably already know this

...

*though, my keyboard sucks

:^)

Insulting the admin shouldn't be a bannable offense
And I can't stand the CSS, can't you just use the same one we use here?

It isn't.

I have and its called "infinitynow(yotsuba b)" in the drop down menu.

>>>Holla Forums

...

Since you're here, how do I select it? No matter what I try, clicking the option, refreshing the page, etc it doesn't change.

kek Holla Forums BTFO

its been on my to fix list for a while.

smh

New laptop. fam

I can understand 16chan with Josh fucking everything up like he did here on Holla Forums, but what have you got against Endchan?
Endchan supports flash, and has a 350 mb file size limit as opposed to Holla Forums's 8 mb.

...

Gottta admit, 350 is pretty good. I could upload the entirety of the vaporwave album I've been meaning to share for a while.

Bunkerchan and endchan use the same fucking backend

...

Fascists just don't get political freedom, like it isn't something they understand fundamentally. You guys are seeing a telling mind blindness that really taps into why fascists are so reviled by others and why nuright autists seem so incredulous about that fact

that's why it failed

What GG was is mostly irrelevant.
It got co-opted from the very start and turned into controlled opposition.

A nice emotional, intense discussion to be had over controlled topics under controlled media by controlled people.
At it's core the whole "gamer" identity crisis suffers from a very insidious contradiction.They WERE created.

So when their identity originates on the consumption of certain media and certain goods, and they start "rebelling" against their feeders, in only gets so much pathetic.

"The Poptart business is doing things we dont like! This is intolerable, we "poptarters" must organize a protest and demand they stop doing it, sternly"
"Should we stop buying poptarts? Maybe pirate them?"
"WHAT!? NO ARE YOU EVEN A POPTARTER? YOU DONT EVEN SUPPORT THE POPTART MAKERS!!"

"We will flock to the social media/ezines where large-media-conglomerates-owned "publications" will capture our audience with fake pleasantries and fake-opposition AND NOTHING ELSE!"
"Anyone doing anything else is no true poptarter as the large-media-conglomerates-owned "publications" will ratify."

I want this to be a thing.

Holla Forums is a shitty platform, but Holla Forums isn't salvageable and /r/socialism has its own slew of problems

Us jumping ship would just deprive socialists of having a pretty valuable outlet for discussion

You are correct for the most part, but there was also another element or two to it: The first being the effect it had on independent developers and artists. It'd be more fair to say, rather than people who like poptarts, it was about and for the workers who produced poptarts. And of course, the complete demystification of how the media works to protect private interests.

GG had all the potential to become a worker's movement. It was, after all, a revolt against the exploitation happening at the hands of the ruling capitalists and their media henchmen. It's a shame the left didn't take advantage of it because they were too up their own asses about it being "just videogames".

no

I am not worried about Holla Forums shilling. You guys are awesome.
The incoming shills are going to be paid and from CTR. Even Holla Forums should pay attention and understand that CTR will be playing tricks.

...

Nobody will be kicking you guys out. You are welcome to stay as long as you want.

The announcement is just a warning that paid shilling is likely incoming and we need to be aware of that.

Well yes, fellow poptarter.
For you see,the poptart creators work tiredlessly to design new poptarts for us.
Using our own ovens and THEIR RECIPE is STEALING.
You are stealing from the rest of us poptarter that wont get to see new designs!!!1!1! For we know the poptart business gets it's revenew from design and not distribution,obviously!

If you wan't to cook your own poptarts you need a license, a written permission that you can use your oven and your ingredients to cook according to a recipe!
Otherwise you are no true poptarter, you just want to SEE THE INDUSTRY BURN! If everyone could cook their own poptarts WHY WOULD ANYONE MAKE NEW RECIPES!?!
Also you are hurting the many aspiring young, independent poptart designers *big-eyed-puppy.png*
How could you ! You filthy art-hating, fascistic,parasite, freeloader, communist, PIRATE … b-b-bad person!!! LEAVE MY POPTARTS ALONE!(It's all I have)

Not surprised tbh :^)

...

what makes you think "paid shilling" is happening?
Arn't you aware that all the "racebait" and "sjw" shit is from Holla Forumsacks?

Holla Forums is a too fringe. no one is going to shill to a small site full of pedophiles and fascists.

I wasn't here for a while site wide, wanna know more about CTR

When Holla Forums was legitimately shilled ( and fell for it) for Trump, any dissent, even neutral , was shilling.

When in Holla Forums any elaborate(that cannot be hand-waved with an infograph) criticism of socdem/fascism is either paid shilling by the joos or you are some filthy (sand)nigger/spic/chinaman that is shilling on behalf of their "race".

Holla Forumsacks concept of reality is so fragile it doesn't survive any contact with actual-reality in any form, or with any other view on reality for that matter.

I have no concrete opinion on racebaiting and sjw matters.

Okay lets hope so.

Dissent and shilling are normal on imageboards. The problem is groups like CTR coming along with teams of professional shills (paid) who have no interest in imageboards.

CTR's current target may be the Holla Forums type board, but if CTR is successful then other paid groups will popup to begin attacking other views too. Its a slippery slope and we need to identify it as a problem before it blows up and engulfs everything.

Im against the general idea of paid shilling, not any specific group.

Judging from the smug pollack comments maybe we should stay just to spite their fascist asses.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?! HE WHO CONTROL THE MEMES CONTROL THE WORLD!!!

I will make my say. If we as the Holla Forums annons and tripfags should jump ship, I will join. But seeing as this announcement is a warning we should just in case prepare for the worst if it does indeed happen.

Bunkerchan would be nice.

Is there any way to contact the board owner if shit goes tits up? I'd happily join anything that is guided by their hand.

Good to know.

r8

0/10

The point is to have all the boards on a single chan. I just put the chan names there to denote which part each staff will have control over. A single staff for /get/ and /ref/, one for Holla Forums and /bunker/, and one for /luna/. Also, Holla Forums just really struck me as out of place on a leftist board. We have random boards for that.

Well if the admin of GETchan wants to migrate to bunkerchan. All he have to do is give proof and we'll create the boards.

We had a discussion with Che (board owner). If we do migrate Leftypol staff will get /nuleftypol/ The bunkerchan boards are staying.

My USSC dream will be like the following :-
A proxy chan that act to bring all leftists chans together with out the need of magriton

With the USSC itself showing the thread source if its from getchan or bunckerchan etc….. and keep the posts there but act only as a proxy and a link between the leftists chans of the internet

can it be done ??

That sounds more like Bunkerchan absorbing the other chans than a real merger.

i really hope that i never have to see alex jones with the words "class wars" ever again. this image has frightened me and i will likely never be the same

Haven't you browsed getchan? Its dead.

Yes if getchan was using Vichan or lynxchan instead of kusaba.

So is Bunkerchan. And that's not my point anyways. Why should Holla Forums want to just become a part of Bunkerchan rather than having real control over our board? We've been servile to Holla Forums for so long. Why should we just bow down to Bunkerchan now? I say we move to a different domain, rename the chan something neutral and axe the boards that become pointless. Why should we have Holla Forums /left/ and Holla Forums on a single chan? That makes absolutely no sense.

Who is this Holla Forums you speak of?

Who exactly wants to have control over the board?

Migrating to Bunkerchan wouldn't be freedom for Holla Forums. We would just be exchanged from one set of hands to another.

no just really slow.

Because

Real control doesn't exist. You're at mercy of the board owner and volunteers

why?

Bunker lacks political canotation

What is archiving for $100 alex?

No. The bunkerchan moderation teams has only 3 people, Me (hands off), hoxha (hands off) and jny(MIA). The leftypol staff will be taking care of /nuleftypol/

But we are not migrating anywhere:

Someone got overenthusiastic. Someone else got paranoid. That's it.

So would be move to mod-controlled board or any other board. I thought people here understood the difference between basis and superstructure.

Unless you radically change board (some sort of decentralized p2p system) you will always have "set of hands".

This.

Well I created a leftypol board on Bunkerchan.org and transfered it to che

So its up to her when we move.

BO MSG ME THE ACCOUNT NAMES OF THE VOLUNTEERS SO I CAN CREATE THEM NEW ACCOUNTS

Bunkerchan.org/leftypol/

Okay well, let's see if they come. I can see no reason they would be coming to 8pol instead of 4pol. To Holla Forums everything they don't like is a shill.

aren't it a thing already?
I'm from periphery of capitalist world and piracy is pretty widespread here.

FIRST

What I really like about bunkerchan is how it's all dark and black. It makes me think I'm really in a bunker.

how about allowing tor users to post?

I swear I enabled it. Let me check again.

But is there any actual evidence of that whatsoever, aside from ? It doesn't strike me as real likely that CTR would bother with a board that's the last place on the internet where anyone's mind could actually be changed, it'd be like trying to shill for liberal ideas on stormfront.

back in my day we had one theme and frames and one chan and we liked it

Wait have we been having board council meetings this whole time and no one told me?

that should read "aside from an increase in posts that don't fit the Holla Forums orthodoxy", got interrupted editing and then forgot to finish before I posted

It's less about changing the minds of those that post in Holla Forums and injecting a counter-narrative into a place where otherwise opinions might reach a general consensus. From a psy-ops perspective, you don't want the opposing view to have any sort of undisturbed nexus of meme opinion generation, otherwise to the neutral it might appear that their POV might have some merit. It also distracts them from focusing all of their attention on anti-hillary efforts because what time they could be spending sifting through emails they're instead arguing with a troll on the internet.

This is one of the site admins explaining the message. What do you think of his explanation, Holla Forums?

That's good. Even if we don't migrate right now, we got the backup system more thoroughly fleshed-out.

I don't think it sounds unreasonable. Holla Forums is a nexus of /r/thedonald posters and Holla Forums, what, THE leftist meme generator? Either way CTR would have a vested interest in shitting up 8ch.

plus what I said

Like it matters. What are you going to do?

my bad m8 it wasn't enabled for some reason.

Is it feasible to use any of this for converting population to the Dark Red Side?

What makes you think they're coming? Do you have insider information?

I don't see the reason to panic.

If you are feeling paranoid, put somewhere on top

IN CASE OF 404 REGROUP AT BUNKERCHAN

and that's enough.

Fug.

yes, theoretically

I posted the whole report
plus some extra. I think I have more PDFs and stuff on Meme Warfare but I have to look for it

Honestly I rather like Holla Forums; I lived in China for 10 years and really enjoyed the aesthetic of communist propaganda while I was there. Ive even got one of those little red books from Mao's era.

Theres no reason to panic - I wont be deleting this board or anything crazy like that.

Be careful arkid, Holla Forums might think your a red :^)

lol timestamp on that red book?

lol, one aphorism I still remember

it's a shit book, tho
boring as fuck

I was closely following S█████ since he launched his campaign last year and was going to vote for him until I saw the primaries were rigged against him. I switched to Trump in early March after getting redpilled by a friend on a road trip. Im now for building the wall, but I still enjoy studying leftist ideals and thought. I actively read and post on both Holla Forums and Holla Forums. Take what you will from that.

Timestamped

The book is basic, but it does a good job at laying out the foundations in an easy-to-understand format. Chinese is my second language and I can read/understand 99% of the content in the book without trouble.

Basically your anti-esstablishment tbh.
Fair does….Whats your ideology :^)

Looks good to me

I've got an English version of the same edition as that one, although mine's smaller (vest pocket size.) Surprisingly well made little thing.

Trump is staunchly pro-NSA and pro-Patriot Act though. He has publicly exclaimed that Snowden, Assange and Manning deserve to be punished "under the fullest extent of the law" for being traitors and Russian spies. I thougt you liked free speech and government transparency.

The guy is a fascist dictator like any other politician.

Ive never thought about what "ideology" I am. This is the first time someone has asked me. Thinking about it, I guess pluralism and philosophical anarchism describe me best.

Yeah they are built to a high quality for how small they are. Printed on good paper, and have good craftsmanship too. The people in charge of making them must have been proud.

Thanks for the clarification.

The NSA and patriot act seem to be here to stay regardless of who wins, so Im not going to stress about it.

Snowden is likely dead as of a few days ago (there is speculation that his deadmans switch was activated)
Manning is in jail basically forever.
Assange isnt even a US citizen.
These people are interesting, but their fate is not going to change substantially when either presidential candidate takes office.

I like free speech and see Trump as the stronger candidate.

I like transparency and see Trump as the stronger candidate.

Currently my biggest issue is TPP and Trump said he will oppose it.

I also study taoism and cynicism extensively.

The main issue with the wall is that it doesn't really address any sort of root of the problem. People will still try to come to the US because it's still in their interest to. Building the wall will only make it more dangerous and deadly for them.

Trump's wall will never stop illegal immigration. There are so many other ways people will immigrate illegally.

I support the wall because its a massive infrastructure project and proposed highspeed railway. Ive got hope that it will be like Roosevelt's new deal.

And not building it will only make it more dangerous and deadly for.. US

but trump got mike pence as his VP who has praised the TPP on several occasions and even hilary has claimed that she's against it now so he's probably full of shit when it comes to these things though trump seems like the funner candidate honestly if i were american i'd vote for him just to see what he does and how much he fucks up though seeing him with nukes seems kinda scary

Clinton only changed her mind after S█████ called her out on it and made it a big talking point during the primaries. If you believe that she is actually against the TPP, then ive got a bridge to sell you.
Pence was Pro-TPP and probably still is, but Trump will keep him down.

oh yeah I forgot mexicans were inherently violent, thanks mr Holla Forums

doesn't matter who wins the election, they're both going to do more or less the same thing

It's not like renogiating trade deals is gonna fix anything anyway.

illegals are more likely to do illegal things

snopes.com/snowden-pronounced-dead/
You sure about that?

not really, if you're in a country illegally for purposes other than organized crime you try to stay out of trouble as much as possible to avoid being deported.

I'm pretty sure I've already seen them around.
They're kind of weak.

Yeah, I highly doubt that.
There's nothing about Trump that screams he's a social democrat. He's towing the party line and doing supply side economics now.

Less New Deal, more 700,000 Bunkers