I think I checkmated Ancaps

Noise pollution is aggression?

Yeah if I buy the area surrounding your town thus creating a property line perimeter in which you have to pay me for crossing do you honestly think Helicoptering(i know its not a word leave me alone) zip lining etc are viable options to travel unmolested? Don't you see how this is clearly violating people's rights?

Best way to trigger ancaps is honestly just showing them how the entire history of private property and capitalism violates the NAP

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Can't do that, because that would break the NAP. it's equivalent to evicting someone from your property into a pool of lava. if it doesn't present an undue burden, you would have to take them out of your property where they chose. the exception to this is if there is no terra nullus or accepting property accessible anywhere, then you can execute you. also, if you own all the land on your landmass, you can evict them into the ocean, or into space, or out the airlock. it's simple really.

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This doesn't make sense, they automatically get thrown back in, otherwise charging for transit would be redundant because everyone would just temporarily trespass.

Also if said land was a mile, there would be no excuse not to send them back from whence they came.

This works much better with the starving a city plan from

I'm sorry maybe you missed something. I'm not throwing you back into a pool of lava I'm throwing them back to their own community

yes, it is. you can't shoot someone for having a conversation, but if the noise is sufficient enough to reasonably inpede your operations, such as operating aircraft, shooting guns, throwing parties, or telling people to unionize, then they are breaking the non-agression principle. It's been established by the UN that loud noise and sleep-deprivation are forms of torture. if you haven't already homesteaded the air with your sound before they moved in, then you'd be breaking the NAP, and, they still couldn't shoot you unless you were like using sonic weapons, but they could force you to stop, ask you to submit to punishment for continued commerce, and exile/euthanize you if you refuse to submit, or euthanize you if you refuse to stop the noise.

fucking kek'd
good b8 m8

you're sending them back to territory which they contend they cannot survive in, and it seems reasonable they can't since their property has been surrounded by a hostile owner. you are required to release them where they chose.

no, they can only do it once, after that point, they've either payed the fine, which means you're getting your rent, no big deal, or they've already been exiled, and you can now shoot them for breaking their exile.

They can survive I;m not stopping them from growing their own food

awoke from nap = broke the NAP

By whom? The anarchy enforcement team?

Listen you little europoor Statist, we Americans believe in something called individual choice. it may not mean much to you, but we recognize individuals rather than collectives can best determine how to optimally live their life, so if he says he wants to be on the outside, he gets to be on the outside. that's how it works, kiddo.

If you shoot your gun at someone in self defense for violating the NAP, the disturbance caused by the gunfire is the responsibility of the person violating the NAP.
that said, you can't shoot someone for making a loud noise, Jeez, why do you think we don't have a concept of reciprocity? if you shoot someone for making a loud noise, you are a murderer, in any system. lethal self defense is only allowed if you fear for your life, or property value exceeding $50,000 USD for every year of quality life the perpetrator can be estimated to have remaining.

councils of justice that will form from the common interest a community has for fair policy. you're welcome to ignore them, but then you'd be excluded from the rest of the community, which would be extremely detrimental in most cases. you can then act how you'd like, but it wouldn't be ancapism, because you'd be breaking the NAP. and if you hurt the property owner with your action, the council of justice would come after you and arrest you for violating the NAP, assuming the property owner was part of the council.

This is seriously some top tier retardation/banter. Can't tell which.

Who enforces the NAP?

yes, this valid. ideally though it would be more structured, a council of justice would issue a $50 fine or something, and your neighbors can contest it, and a court system, form by the mutual self interest for arbitration and fair judgement of complicated disputes, would determine if the noise was disruptive or not, or violated clear posted guidelines their community voluntarily agreed to.

The council of justice is an attempt by the community to form a government, the council of justice are breaking the NAP!

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Wow first and foremost I'm an American, Second off I'm no Statist. I'm an individualist anarchist more in the tradition of Goldman, Tucker, Spooner etc. I recognize the rights of individuals over the collective. This doesn't mean "lol businesses do whatever they want property rights willy nilly".

I mean seriously do you think every Anarchist before Rothbard (and yes I do consider Rothbard to be an anarchist Holla Forums can blow me) was just fucking stupid? Do you? Do you think Bakunin, Kropotkin, Tolstoy, Makhno, etc. were just huffing paint fucking their sisters going "derr derr I'm a big dumb retard I'm gonna make a philosophy!!1111!!"

Does it not occur to you that maybe they had valid reasons for the ethics they proposed? Ethics which went undisputed by Anarchist thinkers for well over a century? Opposition to wage slavery, rent, interest occupancy and use. These ideas existed for a fucking reason. They understood how they are essential to human liberation and maintaining the freest individual in the freest domain.

So the tl;dr of AnCappery is: It's capitalist government but it won't get big, getting big violates the NAP.

Sounds cyclical to me.

life have value, look it up kiddo:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Life_Value_in_the_US
we shouldn't be afraid of using the great efficiency of the market to determine how much life is worth, Markets always achieve the optimal distrubition of resources when capitalism is allowed to run free.

anyone can, as long as they are party to the complainant. as most of the world is organized by local community, a local council of justice would be formed out of mutual self interest in most cases. fontier justice though is still justified.

nope :^)
Governments claim all land in their nation as their jurisdiction, and don't have you sign a contract.
In ancapism, all the land under the jurisdiction of the council has been properly homesteaded, and everyone, or the original owners of the homesteaded property and noise volume will have signed contracts. People new to the community how have bought property or permission of residence in the community would have agreed to inherit these contracts at that time. this is why the NAP is great.

cry more crypto-statist.

capitalism didn't emerge, it always was. Capitalism is the inescapable law of nature. you work to make stuff or you die, it's always been that way. human nature is innately capitalistic.

life have value, look it up kiddo:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Life_Value_in_the_US
we shouldn't be afraid of using the great efficiency of the market to determine how much life is worth, Markets always achieve the optimal distrubition of resources when capitalism is allowed to run free.

I SHALL GLADLY SACRIFICE MY LIFE FOR THE ALMIGHTY MARKET

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Feudalism is capitalism
Slave society is capitalism
Socialism is capitalism
Communism is capitalism

TIL that when I say that I'm anticapitalist it's not because I'm against wage labour and the imposition of the commodity form, but because i don't like people working to make stuff

I've said this situation would basically never happen because of the complex and nebulous interactions of large communities for mutual benefit, and a scrouge mcduck scheme to passively siege someone's property would be beyond the means of nearly anyone. but I'm just humoring you leftists by saying "what if", and the answer is, they would have to starve. boo hoo. it's their fault for not homesteading enough land to provide for themselves, or forming communities with contracts that allow negotiated mutual entry, or buying property with a bullet in the contract guaranteeing continued access outside the city. if all that fails, then yes, some things are more important than living, and that's not doing harm to other people by coercing them. Coercion and theft is always wrong.

what a surprise, Lenin was a hypocrite who knew work a necessity of life. just like all communists I guess.

yes, indeed, and any serious ancap knows that there is a of justice to carry out when the revolution comes, just listen to Hans Herman Hoppe. We must return stolen wealth and property to the rightful owners, from whom it was deprived by statist activity. hundreds of years of activity means basically everything will have to change hands. but remember, this isn't a statist redistribution, from those with much to those with little, but a justified redistribution, which may in many cases take from those with little and give to those with much, and indeed, increase inequality. if the line of inheritance becomes too muddled with transactions to follow, you will have to just form a lottery and invite the proper heirs to make claims.

I've written out a general recommendation for transition, from the status-quo to voluntaryism and NAP before it goes:

this is a good start.

what a surprise. Holla Forums got royally BTFO by me, and they stop responding. Just another day on Holla Forums. someone should screencap this thread and post it to /liberty/ and /r/anarcho_capitalism so we can laugh at you.

You do know what socialism is, right?

What's to stop me from buying land surrounding your community and charging you a fee to leave?

So your final say is "you would die", wrapped in a trillion handwaves, and you consider that BTFOing us?

nothing, and it's your right to own and maintain land, and collect rents from it from my productive use of it. Private roads are great. but really my community would be so large that you would be circumscribing so much land, hundreds and hundreds of miles, owned by so many people, you couldn't afford it. I've also signed, as part of the contract when I bought my house, a clause that says I'm guaranteed access outside of my city, so I would sue the seller for a private jet or my money back.

But a guy who owns the land around the city could charge you for that.

as opposed to what? using his homesteaded property for free, i.e. theft i.e breaking the NAP?
how do you get the money to maintain the roads in socialism?

Yes?

Money doesn't maintain roads. Workers do.

workers starve if you don't pay them.

You do know that the term 'capitalism' was created by leftists to describe the widespread system of wage-labour, right? In other words, it has a specific meaning and you can't just take that and attach a completely different one to it like "hurrrr capitalism is when people make stuff"

…actually let me rephrase that: you CAN, but in doing so you sound like an ignorant douchebag. If you're going to shitpost on a lefty board, at least use the right terminology.

They also starve if you trap them on their property.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_voucher

ok so those first posts were fucking hilarious and I thought it was a local shitposting, now I can't tell if he's trying to troll the shit out of us, or an actual ancap showed up or what
no, actually, this definitely cannot be serious

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Why not? What's stopping you from restricting air space?

kek, flawless.

Fucking perfect

you'd need to homestead it by making use of it for productive purposes. If you own an airfield, then you can restrict the airspace for the safety of incoming and departing aircraft. if you build a giant butterfly net, then that too is homesteading the air.

The responses this person has left in this thread cannot be serious. No I refuse to believe it.

Also

Irrefutable proof that Ancaps are Fascists who just haven't come out of the closet yet.

Nothing is sacred or safe from their mammon-worshipping talons.

Warlord? you mean the non-agression enforcer? Warlords don't exist in anarcho-capitalism because that would violate the non-agression principle.

100% troll confirmed

first the ignore you
then they laugh at you

wtf i hate stalin now
we /fullanarchocapitalism/ now

The true checkmate for aynclaps is that society is based on
Who gets to decide where that line of violation goes? Usually one has to weigh different freedoms against one another, who gets to do that?

thanks for the laugh, user

Nothing. Expect those fees would need to be profitable(extremely low) in order to be productive.

ancaps showing their ignorance once again

This is just complete bullshit. Up until about the 1500 hundreds most land (that wasn't owned directly by a ruler) was owned by the commons and communities decided upon its use usually dividing it up for the the use of different families. Why are ancaps all ahistorical retards?

Because otherwise their ideology doesn't work
Have you read Hoppe's 'Theoretical History'?
demos.org/blog/12/31/14/hans-hermann-hoppe-libertarian-theoretical-historian

Dear god. It isn't even neo feudalism by default this anus actually idolises feudalism.

Ancaps are now lower than facist in my mind. At least facists try and pretend their arguments have some empirical basis.

These praxelology, theoretical history retards literally just pull stuff out of their ass.

At least phrenology or whatever could be convincing to a weak mind, this is just next level retardery though

You see, this is how I know you’re either baiting or utterly ignorant of the conceptual/historical framework of capitalist property law.

Your whole division of rightful/coerced property claims is next to null because the very system of propertarian distribution is predicated on coercive action. Property is a function of the State—in accordance with propertarian schemes derived from (actually, in the case of Anglo common law, quite literally identical to) feudalism.

t. property lawyer

But good luck with your shitty revolution of taking money from starving children and giving back to the poor, expropriated trust fund beneficiaries.

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I'd buy air and charge everyone for breathing.

For reference, here's a story about landlocking and easements that's pretty amusing

reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/2o3g9g/neighbors_stupidly_caused_themselves_to_be/

reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/2ooy1x/update_my_neighbors_caused_themselves_to_be/

reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/4dci57/update_my_neighbors_caused_themselves_to_be/

what a shitshow lmao
In ancapistan they would have been gunned down

Ah, ancaps.

JUST FUCKING END THIS!

Holla Forums Hates Ancaps ans mush as Holla Forums does.

Just Stop Ancaps, just hide or burn your books and forget about this whole thing, Imagine if a revolution were to take place, The fucking Commies and the Nazi scum would be chasing us before they kill each other.
I can see that happening.
This is fucking awful.

what if decide to not enforce the NAP and just get some strong communities to band together and start taking over all your shit?

What stops your band of thieves and murderers from killing, and stealing from, each other?

Nothing, hence why everyone needs to be prepared for a firefight at all times. Don't take the dog for a walk without your grenade launcher!

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Fuck why doesnt OP in that thread just let them have a wee bit of fucking road.

Did you read the part about the self-landlocked asshole leaving his car in front of the gate, what a baby.

idk, because 'mine'. to be fair the neighbour sounds like an asshole too, but he should have just offered to rent them use of it for $50/month or whatever

o im laffin

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There are no private means of production in the federation comrade.

Hey, I didn't know Gorbachev made Russia more socialist.
constitution.ru/en/10003000-02.htm

op why waste your effort trying to checkmate a meme ideology

milton friedman and ayn rand are both dead, and they're like the only two kinda notable people to ever take ancapism seriously

I've heard this a lot of times

So it's okay, as long as it only happens to a few people?

as opposed to breaking the NAP and committing THEFT?
Why is it greed to protect the land you own, but not greed to want to use other people's land?

Best moments of this thread

why even try? i mean ancap are just memes that in the end will just say nice strawman