What's the best way to avoid mansplaining?

Hey Holla Forums I'm a man and I'm an Intersectional, Radical, Marxist, Eco-Feminist, or Ally if you prefer, I've read different preferences on that matter. I'm also sex negative.

In my natural predilections even before I was educated on Feminism I didn't tend to speak over women or trust women's judgment or input less. I had three older sisters and I believe this had a positive effect on me.

However, I am a scholarly person and read a lot and tend to have a lot to say about most subjects. I make it a policy when discussing Feminism to speak with the voices of women I have read rather than my own reasoning, but I've read a lot of women, and not every woman I might speak to necessarily has an excellent education on Feminism.

So it becomes slightly excellent, especially if you start talking about radfem stuff, women will say, who are you to tell me my feelings might be the product of harmful patriarchal inculcations? And I'm like, no one, I'm referring to this thing I read over here, and I could be wrong, I'm just saying this and such a thing could be excellent. I don't know how I might approach that differently, I feel like that's as yielding and appropriate I can possibly be. Yet I'll get some remarks, rarely but still sometimes, about mansplaining or like analytically trying to invalidate someone's feelings, which are both things I spend active thought trying to avoid in all such interactions. I also actively pay attention to the fact that conditioning gives me more power in all conversations and so I use yielding qualifiers on everything I say and make sure to give women time to speak and listen carefully to what they've said before responding. At the same time, if a woman is saying something that is a textbook patriarchal inculcation I will be more certain of Feminist theory than of their experience. Am I wrong?

Maybe that's the best men can do, maybe I can't talk about Feminism without having that effect from time to time. I remember I used to wonder if there was a way I could carry myself on the street to appear less threatening. I have a threatening physique and I would worry every single time I passed a lone woman on the street that if I walked with ordinary confidence and happiness that I might seem like a threat, or do some unconscious thing to reinforce the idea that women tread through male space. Maybe if I lowered my shoulders, my head, arrange my gait to take up less physical space. Eventually I realized that I simply am a threat, that this is the grand inheritance my ancestors left for me, that I'll never know the ways in which my power makes me harmful to women, and that by this mitigating actions I was just trying to absolve myself of responsibility for rape culture, but I am responsible and I am not exempt. "That I am not a bit better than the meanest on Earth, that while there is a lower class I am in it, while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." My Feminist education doesn't absolve my moral culpability, at least I feel that way. I don't have the right to signal to a woman on the street not to be afraid of me, she has a right to be afraid of me. I'm afraid of me.

So maybe it's like that? It's just not in the realm of possibility to care about this subject and be aware of my muh privilege and power and yet still not suffer from it from time to time? It's just, I don't perceive it, I feel like I'm doing everything right, and I don't understand where people are coming from if they say that about me, it just feels like some kind of conversational trump card that's aside from the intellectual core of the disagreement. I mean, naturally I can never say I'm not mansplaining, I don't have the epistemological position to argue that. Yet I can know with absolute certainty that I'm personally not speaking from a place of thinking my judgment or reasoning are superior. I speak calmly and without a desire to be "right," just reiterating experiences and analysis I've read from women in the hopes that they will be useful.

Is there more I can do to avoid this problem?

Even our resident Anfem shitposter doesn't make such obvious bait.

Nice try tho

Simple. You cannot avoid what does not exist.

Spoken like a true bourgeoisie white male.

First of all, why are you spending significant time debating feminism with women? I'm asking seriously. How do you end up in those debates, why do you place yourself in their path, and what do you get out of it?

I'm not saying you shouldn't debate feminism with women at all. But perhaps the time could be better spent debating feminism with men? Or discussing feminism in a non-debate way? Or debating one of the many other important topics in the world?


No, you can't, because none of us can know that about ourselves. First of all, because there are psychological layers to us that we don't have muh privileged access to; we can only infer them just like we infer other people's mental states, indirectly, and with uncertainty. And second of all, this doesn't just depend on your own mental state but on the other person's and on the culture and context, and there is always uncertainty there as well.

such low quality bait
just let the thread die out

Because that is exactly what leads to the exclusion and then ultimately the subjugation of women you fucking pig. Men get to talking about feminism and all of a sudden everything is feminism fault. Women deserve our right. Women deserve to be payed the same as a man. And for you to suggest a man not discuss feminism with women is sexist as fuck.

fuck u.

I am Greek Worker so am a prol PoC. Check your privilage.

HAH. Please, do not try to claim to be PoC because you tan easier and have kinky hair. And it is arguably the Greek thinkers that ultimately led to capitalism.

...

thanks based mods.

Greek thinking didnt take that turn, did it. Im glad your people are being replaced by real PoC workers.

not greek user, just stating a fact

why does feminism trigger you so much?

Because this board is full of sexist white boys.

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There are many sexist women who are uneducated about what feminism is. I call out women on their sexist behaviour just as much as men, and I also talk casually with both men and women about feminism often. Not sure why you would think otherwise.


Usually one of two things happen: someone says or do something sexist and I call them out and start a debate, or the conversation naturally turns to feminism as a topic and I contribute. I put myself in those situations to learn and to stand up for feminism. What I get out of it is happiness that I am contributing to a good cause.


I really don't understand why you would say this. Sure, people could always spend their time doing something else. He probably does not revolve his life around feminism or having trouble talking to women about feminism. He came to a feminist-friendly sub and asked questions about feminism. What do you want? If you want examples of other things I often discuss with people it's veganism, the refugee crisis, racism, homophobia, the U.S. election, the Palestine/Israel conflict etc.


While I do agree with what you said, I think what he meant was that he has read tons of book about feminism and sometimes when you talk with women, who haven't read anything about feminism, they believe they know more about feminist concepts than him, due to them being women. A woman might then say he's trying to mansplain feminism to her. He wants to avoid this and is asking advice.

…this is bait, right?

It's kinda sad that a post like this pretty much has to be bumplocked. Leftypol just really is not the place to have this discussion.
But I don't get why you phrased your post like a question. It seems like you have some pretty consolidated and (fairly) well thought out views. When phrasing it like a question you make it seem non-committal, which is kind of a cop-out - an easy way out so to speak - when what you're really asking for is challenge.

Also, I'm responding here to what is pretty obviously bait (the intro sentence makes that painfully clear), because the content is actually sort of interesting / debateworthy.

With that being said, (and with a preface saying that I honestly have not read a lot of (read: any) radfem theory) I think that when 'accusing' people of mansplaining (The "conversational trump card" you're talking about) they're falling for the usual trap in social analysis of using a something that is meant as a social / societal analytical tool as a analysis tool in a *specific* situation.
Mansplaining is used (the way I understand it) as a descriptionary term for something that happens in some general vague sense, and not in cases. As in, mansplaining is the general societal disregard for females in feminist discourse by males, rather than being the case where a man told a woman how her experience is.
Am I wrong about this? Where - or from whom - does mansplaining as a feminist term have its roots?

oops, didn't mean to flag, am not that other guy

nah it's just a way to misdirect criticism made by men about feminism.