The Veil is Lifting

httpz://googleprojectzero.blogspot.ca/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html
httpz://meltdownattack.com/

Other urls found in this thread:

theregister.co.uk/2017/06/09/intel_sends_arm_a_shot_across_bow/
windows-arm.com/index.php/hw-news/1096-windows-10-on-arm-laptops-coming-from-samsung-and-xiaomi
arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/microsoft-pushes-for-a-more-modern-pc-with-vr-project-evo-and-arm-support/
theverge.com/2017/12/5/16734402/windows-10-arm-snapdragon-laptop-hp-asus-lenovo-hands-on
datacenterknowledge.com/hardware/red-hat-bets-data-centers-are-ready-arm-servers
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-08/microsoft-pledges-to-use-arm-server-chips-threatening-intel-s-dominance
developer.arm.com/support/security-update
gist.github.com/ErikAugust/724d4a969fb2c6ae1bbd7b2a9e3d4bb6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_card
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macOS_components#Classic
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_binary
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Tramiel
archive.fo/RGPpS
people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/shadow-asiaccs15.pdf
archive.fo/gDphe
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

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Good thing, but the first benchmarks shows 2-3% decrease in performance in the W10.

i think it's only going to get worse. intel's answer to this is going to be to shove even more botnet in their chips.

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Normies stopped using x86 ages ago gramps

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Normies use smartphones/tablets not stoneage tier computers

There are 1.5 billion x86_64 computers in use right now, and the PC market growth is being driven by more powerful laptops. The "Post-PC" meme was investor PR because it was not expected that the PC market was going to experience anymore significant growth after the start of the 2010s. It never had anything to do with PCs "dying" a Smartphone is never going to replace a PC. There are more Smartphones on the planet because Smartphones are cheaper and more expendable, and a single person may upgrade to a new Smartphone every year while keeping the same PCs for roughly 5 years at a time (A full hardware cycle for PCs in the industry is generally considered closer to 10 years in many cases)

And nobody is going to switch to an architecture that has virtually no security auditing in comparison to x86. Please enter reality and stop LARPing

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Windows is proprietary so we do not actually know how much security auditing it receives compared to open source OS' like Linux, so your already non-sequitur already makes no sense. Get bent LARPers

i love this board

x86 is tumbling down the same path as Java and Flash.
There's literally no advantage in using x86 other than you have more performance over ARM at the cost of crunching more TDP.
too much SAP? sanjay?

I bet you're masochist enough to like those little incermental performance intel does which only holds us all back from breakthroughs.

Google will wreck the shitty market now that they'd been making stuff that's cross compilable on multiple architectures with portage. This enables a good fucking game among architectures.

A $50 android tv box comes with 3GiB DDR4, supports h.265|VP9 at 1080p60 comes with a cool qwerty and gyro remote. All that with passive cooling while PCs or even laptops in year 2005 can't do the same amount of "non-retro" entertainment.
Stop thinking x86_64 userbase care about architectures. Majority of people want cheap stuff that just works anywhere and don't have the time to build their own PC gaming console. Even a 4K smartphone can be way cheaper than a 4K compatible PC. That gaymer monitor would even cost as much as that 4K phone that can work interoperably with smart tv's and other phones.
Not only that they're expendable but also efficient. You can use and bring them anywhere and anytime unlike on PCs where the only time you can use is if you do desk work or during break, go home, or is some hikki or homebased prog.

8 Single Precision Instructions Per Cycle is not "Efficient". ARM would have identical efficiency problems as x86 if they made ARM as heavily pipelined
Users do care about legacy compatibility, part interchangeability, and software upgradability. Which Smartphones lack

Indeed, now if only they would make a architecture more effeicient then (((ARM))) and not backdoored everywhere.
OHHHH that makes so much more sense now. They must be the ones putting zeromq into ffmpeg.
It's also full on botnet and spying on you 24/7. Unless you are offering a alternative the user can control then you are pandering to the general web browsing crowd who doesn't care about architecture. I don't care about architecture either, but I want to control the hardware I purchase lest something like planned obsolesence with apple batteries happens.

No most users care about what Microsoft and Apple tell them to care about. They eat up the latest shit no matter how painful it is.

Samsung, HP, Asus and a few others are bringing Windows 10 laptops to the market.
CromeOS has always been there.
Now there are rumblings about Apple coming out with a laptop powered by their A11 chip.

x86 has jumped the shark.

*brings ARM Windows 10 laptops

Except nobody is buying Chromebooks, even Windows ARM laptops have been commercial failures. The average normalfag is retarded, but even they wouldn't want to spend their hard-earned cash on a literal Facebook browsning machine or a version of Windows that can't run their favorite games. the only delusional one is you and if you really want the success of alternative architectures to rely on herding normalfags then you need to get fucking bent you retarded LARPing piece of shit

Great, I'm gonna install Photoshit, MS Office and muh games on one of those.

The patch for Meltdown will fuck over enterprise users, but the generally population won't see a difference in performance. Pretty much every modern CPU architecture is vulnerable to specter.
Only thing I see happening in the short run, is AMD gaining some marketshare in the enterprise market. In the long run, it all depends what the big three do going forward. Whatever happens, we're all fucked anyway.

Still werks just as efficient in mobility and being a RISC isn't all disadvantage, it's a completely different architecture. ARM and other arch just doesn't care about the desktop market yet because the phone and server market is very solid.

Smartphones come with warranty which is what pure FOSS will always lack unless it is red hat shipping some sort of expensive enterprise android but red hat is suspicious as their logo
After the warranty is expired, it's probably beyond repair and no one have enough pajeet support in android as windows. Smartphones evolving a lot is a good sign that the market enables performance competitions among disparate tech companies or OEMs.

China is profiting in the other end of a stick but you get the hardware at a reasonable price. Open it up and search the numbers on the stickers and pcb. Or steal the source code on some Shenzen public /index or factory.

This. pretty sure Windows will try to integrate into Linux now that they have systemd. What if Windows had some contract with intel to only shill and produce x86? They'll crash together, if true.

Programs always follow the userbase. Give it time and even your OS will follow the userbase and provide those services in Linux.

No sense bringing logic and reason into this. LARPers are getting a field day with this one and the next few weeks on here will be the same 2 or 3 retards shilling for PowerPC and ARM Laptops that want to lock you into an ecosystem harder then the average Smartphone OS because they have mental gymnastics to perform over why they need to hate an architecture for no reason

Expensive SURFACE laptops have been a failure.
Once Samsung, HP, Asus and all the other shitslingers start pumping cheap ARM laptops with the Windows sticker on them in to Walmart the normies will lap them up.

Candy Crush? Facebook games? Shit like that will work fine.
Actual gamers will stick to x86 and their home built machines. But their options will slowly diminish as the industry moves on.

Call me a larper all you want. I don't use windows or x86 so I couldn't give a single fuck what happens.

Fine, don't bring your delusions or cancer here though, actually too late, it's impossible to discuss any kind of technology here without you sacks of shit activating SHUT IT DOWN mode for Holla Forums wrongthink
No they will absolutely not because they have no reasons too. Its too big a risk to take when, like you said, normalfags don't care about the architecture, and companies like HP are more than comfortable pushing out low-powered Intel Atom and Pentium machines for low price points because Normies actually expect their software to run.
Grand Theft Auto V is the best selling video game of all time, it's 70GBs in size, and the majority of its sales have been on some x86 machine, wither thats consoles or on PC. the original versions accounted for only 30 million of the total 80+ million sold. It just goes to show your sheer disconnect from reality

You mean how companies are trying to get x86 emulation on ARM? I will believe it when I see it working flawlessly. When Apple switched from Power to x86 they tried it as well and lets just say it wasn't exactly smooth.
I like them, not because I am a masochist but because I am a GPU programmer. I still enjoy Moore's Law performance gains.

Also its not entirely the fault of Intel but rather the fact that whenever they release a new architecture they have to make sure it supports legacy code.Nvidia (and AMD) doesn't have this issue to the same extent because of the way GPU drivers work.

Whenever anyone gets too close Intel lawyers start looming, we will see.
theregister.co.uk/2017/06/09/intel_sends_arm_a_shot_across_bow/

It would never have gone anywhere anyways because emulators can't magically turn 8 SP IPC into 32 SP IPC

windows-arm.com/index.php/hw-news/1096-windows-10-on-arm-laptops-coming-from-samsung-and-xiaomi

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/microsoft-pushes-for-a-more-modern-pc-with-vr-project-evo-and-arm-support/

theverge.com/2017/12/5/16734402/windows-10-arm-snapdragon-laptop-hp-asus-lenovo-hands-on

More profit in ARM. And any chink fab can make an ARM CPU. Why be at the mercy of INTEL/AMD and pay their markup? Microsoft and Apple will tell normies what to buy. And they will buy it. They always do.

The whole industry is not games. Maybe someday you will grow up and realize that.
Keep your hand in the sand and stay mad.

I look forward to seeing absolutely nobody buying them then. Normalfags will see a less-portable Smartphone

Companies don't give a fuck who sources their chips. They want to close you into their ecosystem. And you're defending them because of your cognitive dissonance against a computer architecture

And you dare tell me to grow up, hilarious'!

You better fucking hope these flop if you really don't like Jewery, fucking kike

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How am I defending them? They are coming.I have no control over it. You can keep denying ARM's growth and think x86 will be forever that's fine. I am the one full of cognitive dissonance sure.

Hopes and prayers lel. Ya keep HOPING that computers don't get more and more kiked. See how well that works out for ya goy. ARM gives them to much lock-in power,top to bottom botnet, and massive profit potential. I am sure they will totally pass that by.

Became an investor please, I would love to see you go bankrupt from your complete lack of foresight

All that will happen is that these ARM laptops will dissolve into another segment of the Smartphone market. There is a good reason x86-64 is the main architecture used for workstations, gaming PCs, and servers. I really don't think you understand how the industry works

It's herd mentality actually. Very easy to understand. Jewgle says go this way and the entire industry goes. Now if only they would all give up legacy vidya and keep a x86 machine for the legacy. While everyone switches to something like RISC-V.

It's not herd mentality. Engineers use x86 because of its instruction density, servers use x86 for legacy compatibility and performance, game consoles use x86 now because it eases burden on developers who use x86, along with gamers in general as well as workstation users, because of x86s superior performance

Devs want you to buy ARM because they want to lock you into their ecosystem and they feel like they can sell you on battery life. But you're out of your fucking mind if you think these toys will ever replace actual PCs

Holy fuck you are dumb.

He has to feed his cognitive dissonance somehow because Holla Forums told him an architecture is botnet

SoCs replaced the x86 server market years ago. Do you still think the big servers still use xeon? They don't. They roll out multiple and scalable SoCs and implement MapReduce.
Even neural netwerks follow similar practice.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say no, the largest server providers on the planet like Amazon and Microsoft are not rocking Snadragon 320 server racks

Straight up delusional. This is the most Pajeet thing I've read today

Google is way beyond its market play. How can cucked companies even compete?

This.
How can Microcuck and Shitel ever compete?

Just stop please, you clearly have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

A product that Google offered companies like Samsung as a way to enable them to compete with Apple in the smartphone market.

PCs? Like desktop PCs? Who the fuck still buys desktop PC other then gamers? That market is a shell of what it once was.

Most of the low end bigbox store desktops are just laptop-tier boards stuck in a big hollow box. Everything is moving to (((cloud))) computing so the thing on your desk in the office is just a thin client now.

Google and all the other big cloud players are all dipping their toes in to non-86 archs because power and cooling costs.
datacenterknowledge.com/hardware/red-hat-bets-data-centers-are-ready-arm-servers

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-08/microsoft-pledges-to-use-arm-server-chips-threatening-intel-s-dominance

x86 will forever control the server market if you think energy costs will never rise.

Yeah, the server gods will definitely use highly scalable Xeon to make the strongest housefire.

Google offered android free of charge and made internal competitions among OEMs to:
a c c e l e r a t e
No one's stopping the train except salty x86 faggots.

That was early last year, and it never happened. Because Intel Atom exists on the low-end and ARM experoences identical scaling issues on the high-end to x86

Please just stop

Okay Pajeet I'll switch to an Allwinner for my next host

So now that you guys are actually angry with this x86 fukushima incident can you PLEASE start petition to open up ARM mali GPU? I don't think libv will be able to write entire gallium library on his own with recent paranoia attack and now is the chance to change ARM's mind on laptop market strategy

uhhh can't we just, y'know... recompile whatever software we need into arm? :thinking:
and i'm sure there isn't too much inline stuff

Most smartphones/tablets are x86 now too.

really? Most? then where is arm making their money off of?

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Mostly rasperg pis. ARM is dwindling pretty rapidly in every other market.

lel, no. Wish it was that easy to switch between architectures. Why do you think companies have entire teams that are responsible for different platform versions.

You do know some ARM versions are vulnerable to both Meltdown and all are vulnerable to Specter.

There is no mainstream phone that uses x86.

Image scaling? lmao. You have to stop.

You can but various engines and other legacy crap are dependent on the CPU instructions (games).
Google ports apps on both x86 and ARM although x86 doesn't usually have the best support.

my pineboard is not affected by spectre as it does not employ branch prediction too deep into pipeline (A53).

Some processors that are affected by Meltdown are actually only leaking system registers that do not normally contain secret data. For boards that store cryptographic key are not affected by meltdown.

developer.arm.com/support/security-update

I'm still trying to write my own PoC just in case ARM is lying tho. Bit more tricky than my x86 dual core as there's no clear documentation on how deep in the cache does gcc's flush intrinsics actually clear

Ah, yes, just like how everyone uses chromebooks nowadays

Well at least it seems like they are good at consistently finding zero days that fundamentally change how some softwares are written

Oh shit guys, none other than fucking Cloudfare, with their computationally intense workloads and massive industry dominance, is switching to ARM based systems. x86 is clearly done for now!

Of course it won't, but you are a fool for thinking its going towards an ARM-centric paradigm.

PLEASE FUCKING HAPPEN

Or

How is auditing those binary blobs coming? inb4 you larp as a trisquel user

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corporatism is not capitalism

It was in 2012 (steam on linux), stop wearing diaper you underage

That's the joke.

I thought the joke was

I feel like I’m already seeing it. Could be confirmation bias but I was in a fairly large subreddit and it gave me a “too busy” error, also YouTube errored out on me a couple time today too. This was all on a corporate network with a ton of bandwidth.

Tell me when the nigger rape veil has lifted and the people of the world are ready to exterminate niggers.

Historically haven’t white people killed and raped more white people then anybody else?

that's true for every race, but brown minorities have overtaken us in raping white wimmin per year in many places, and that's a bit worrying

Or, alternatively, they do this and go back further and further and "find" new security problems with old chips, then slowing them down to "fix" the problems so you have to buy new chips that are 100% secure botnet.

I-is M68k affected too?

The ones used in Amigas should be fine.

It's funny that Holla Forums pretends to be more educated but still parrots clickbait headline numbers.

Sadly Cortex A17 are, which means the C201 is affected too, so no freedom respecting machine to migrate.

We should exploit these security holes to break DRM to liberate documents and sofware

I'd like to see different architectures flourish but I don't think it's possible mainstream until we have a transparent compatibility layer in an operating system, which might be difficult. I'm talking like, so you install some *nix on your RISC-V machine and invoke an x86 Windows binary and have it just work. While it would be nice and technically possible with things like qemu and wine, I don't think we're there yet and you simply cannot migrate from 1 hardware system to another without either !) porting everything or 2) maintaining comparability in some form that is transparent enough. In addition to this it ALL has to be ubiquitous which is just a pipedream at this point, like you'd also have to go the other way and say have a method of running RISC-V POSIX binaries binaries on x86 Windows and whatever else.

No matter what there cannot be change without significant improvement or a compatibility bridge. The best examples I always point to are video displays and their input options, remember the times when things like HDMI and displayport were new but everything still had component input, it's necessary otherwise people wouldn't migrate. The same is true for hardware platforms and the pairing of software, unfortunately there's just a lot of factors in software that are hard to account for in terms of compat.

I want to see that girl's caboose

I'm trying gist.github.com/ErikAugust/724d4a969fb2c6ae1bbd7b2a9e3d4bb6 (the Spectre Example from the white paper) on a P8400 (Librebooted T400) and I get either get "Illegal instruction" or it fails to get the secret string.
Does this mean my lolis are safe?

Good enough.

Literally retarded.

That was my thought as well. How can we use this to liberate stuff. Hack game consoles, phones, tv boxes to reclaim them as our own.

My other thought was to the JS whores of the Web: "I told you so".

No. It's because your CPU doesn't support the rdtscp instruction, which that example uses for timing. As a quick hack you can alter the code to call rdtsc(); instead of rdtscp(&junk); in the two places that do it, and sometimes it'll work, but erratically. Try playing with the CACHE_HIT_THRESHOLD too to see how it affects it. Sadly this does not mean your system is necessarily more safe, it just probably needs to be targeted in a different manner.

Oh cool that's markup. Those two functions have double-underscore prefixes.

quite possible, as most people these days only just use desktop replacement laptops for their daily driver while laptops are mostly inupgradable which makes sense to make use of SoC.
the devs will eventually leave x86 and adapt RISC.
Apple and armfriends will bring the fininishing blow to push (((pajeetwindows-jewtel))) shitty(literally) "portable market that never evolved" into its final death.

Oh, don't worry. They prepared ahead of time with systemd and other such bullshit. You think anything happens by mere coincidence? THINK AGAIN

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Literally shit computer. Worthless for gaming and worthless for working. What is this? A facebook(tm) machine?

I'm on LTSB 2016 and haven't got the patch yet.

I did try the rdtsc that was suggested on the comments but I always get the ? guess even after modifying CACHE_HIT_THRESHOLD. None of my computers seem to support the rdtscp instruction, probably because they're 10+ years old.

normies don't care. if the success of MBP is any indication, i'd say they actually prefer glossy.

Are you compiling with GCC and with -O0? It works some of the time on my X200T.

I'm much more enamoured with the TrackPoint personally. Or a mouse when it's set up at home.

I did. I'm trying again and the first result is always 0xFF and the second best is usually 0xFE, with the rare 0xFD.

Interesting. What's your system? I found around 90-100 works best. This is on Debian Stretch, and with Libreboot (shouldn't matter).

This is highly likely since they've legitimately been doing that forever.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_card
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macOS_components#Classic
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_binary

I'm getting excited.

I call bullshit.

From elsewhere:

Note:
Meaning, this is literally nothing.
It really activates your almonds that bugs nowadays are given a catchy name and a logo. I call bullshit and I call problem-reaction-solution style fearmongering.

Debian sid on a Librebooted T400 running Linux 4.14.0-2-amd64. I've tried setting all values between 60 and 300 to CACHE_HIT_THRESHOLD and I still get nothing.

this is a problem with side channels caused by meme tech like branch prediction and caching, it wasn't even remotely surprising.

Spectre a CUTE!

More likely scenario:

You have to go back.

You mean 50% decrease in performance.

(((certain workloads))) are unaffected

I ran benchmarks on muh gaems after the Windows patch rolled out and nothing changed

Gee, its almost as if the majority of software isn't constantly read and writing to kernel memory! Intel can go bankrupt tomorrow for all I care but this bug simply isn't going to effect the majority of users. I think its safe to say that the year of the Threadripper server is here. Hell, with this level of parallelization from Threadripper I'm looking forward to the next supercomputer number 1 in the Top 500 to use AMD chips

All (you). Never mind the other thread. Do us a favour and kill yourself you shilling, bootlicking, corporate pr spreading, tech-illiterate, mentally ill libertarian.

Also:
Nice sources you got there.

Feco if nutzi

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Where does it say that? I guess knowing how to read is not needed to be the x86 white knight.

The C64 is the white man's PC.

k

its at times like these I wish Holla Forums had IDs

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Tramiel
(((C64)))

good goy

Richard Stallman's a Jew.

Glad you see my point

IDs are for fags and I intentionally change my ID every post on boards that have them.

They're desperate, that's for sure.

Sure you did, kid.

Checked your botnet double width dublos

Not to get too tin-foil hat here, but I think the new processors that have this "fixed" will involve an inaccesible shadow stack that holds the real stack being fed to the processor while we only have access to a virtual stack for debugging purposes.
archive.fo/RGPpS
I also think these new lines of processors will have very strong DRM and that all new media will start using it.
A technical paper on shadow stacks:
people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/shadow-asiaccs15.pdf
I can't upload to pdfs because I'm a torfag.

I posted the results in the GG thread on Holla Forums, it was GTA V

I didn't want to post them here because you retards would just cry propriatery botner something something

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Thread isn't about fixing x86. It's a hopeless cause, a dead-end closed-up architecture of botnet and endless bugs. Anyone that still wants to cling to it is a cuck tbh.

Semi unrelated note
Most normies outside of redditors don't seem to know about this yet.
To illustrate the point, talked to a gaming fag a while ago and he seems to think everything will be fine and Microsoft and Intel will get everything fixed and this won't be a problem.
When the reality sinks in or the news breaks and performance starts to suck should I pick up the hardware they'll be dumping?
I'm picky about what gets to go online so they'd amount to little more than being controllers, media centers, emulator stations.
But I'm in a college town and I see a lot of MSI, Alienware, Asus gaming laptops around.
Or should I wait for more development in Power, arm etc.
And pick up what comes out of there?

(((Tramiel))) was only the guy holding the chains on the dev team. They're unpozzed.

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.. until kike tramiel destroyed it.

Any idea when buster is going to get the patch? Sid and stretch have it.

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Christ on a bike
Look what the Meltdown fix did to a server at Epic (devs of shit-tier freemium shooter) compared to 2 unpatched ones.
archive.fo/gDphe
epicgames.com/fortnite/forums/news/announcements/132642-epic-services-stability-update

He seems to be far more intelligent than you are since games do not need to access kernel memory multiple times a second like servers do so as far as that goes there will be no difference whatsoever

Its only servers getting hit like

Fuck, I guess they'll need to buy some new Intel CPUs to compensate.

I really do hope server admins start showing Threadripper some love now as a result of this shit. Threadripper makes a hell of a lot more sense for servers Meltdown or not

buy new intel-aviv cores, goyy!

Epyc you mean.
AyyMD couldn't meet demand even before this shitshow.

Hopefully they can start ramping up production now that they have a lot more back orders to fill no doubt

Please forgive my lack of knowledge regarding the subject at hand, but are Qualcomm Krait CPUs known to be affected by these here specific computing hardware design flaws?

Qualcomm has said some of their chips are vulnerable, but has not specified which.

Krait is based off of A15, which according to ARM is vulnerable to both variants of Spectre. It also appears to be vulnerable to a less severe variant of Meltdown which ARM does not appear interested in mitigating.

but it's only possible because of capitalism

ancap is meme-tier ideology

the internet was a mistake, bring it all down

Or C finally accomplishes the whole point of its existence and is a portable language, all you have to do is switch a few compiler flags and it'll compile for the motorolla 6500 or x86-64, winblows, mac, linux, plan9, Intel ME and so on.

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as x86 is in fact x86-64, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, x86 plus AMD64.

Au contraire, it's only possible because of the state.

Do these exploits affect DEC Alpha64 processors?

Look man computations per watt is what matters in the data centers. If one cpu drew 2 kilowatts that would be fine as long as it does more with those watts than a number of lower power CPUs with the same draw

Mawaru Penguindrum came out seven years ago.

Give it up, nerds. Your /salt/-white meme systems are DoA.

FUCK THAT VIDEO

FUCKING CRINGE

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That doesn't seem like an argument to me, there's absolutely nothing here but pathetic evasion, as expected from ancap mongs

not an argument

Here let me help:

Wrong ancap does not mean laws dont exist and that people dont enforce them. There are prisons, security forces, judges, etc.

I guess you could say the industry is locked into the x86 ecosystem.

That's a state. That's literally a state. That it's privately owned means that it's a collection of authoritarian regimes. Suharto's Indonesia is such a place, one family owns prisons and judges and security forces.

You don't get to pretend it's not coercive force if it's owned by a handful of families instead of "the public". I also find it laughable that you don't see how our current "state" is just such a group of judges and prisons and security forces owned by a select group of families.

Wrong.

The existing state is not owned by anyone. Kill off any of the top 10 families and everything would operate about the same.

If it was owned the state would operate for their profit and would operate entirely differently. The United States government spends trillions every year. The richest person has adding up their total assets only around 100 billion.

Private ownership of the United States or any government would be incredibly profitable for the owner. The fact that we dont have trillionaires is proof enough anarcho capitalism is not the current configuration.

A person is free to do what they want with their own property. A business owner can fire all the employees. A property owner can evict those on it. A slave owner execute his workers, etc.

It is not initation of force to operate with your own property as you see fit.

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go be a sheep somewhere else

except only the private and secret families have control over everything. authoritarian state is cuckoldry at its finest.

nu uh. ancap seeks recognition and transparency in order to actualize the NAP in the first place.
people don;t e

*don't even know they're using ancapist services.
ancap seeks to replace this world's occult cabal ruling.

... just reclaiming humanity once and for all. if you guys still don't agree with ancap then you all deserve a dystopian life but it won't happen. it's like those killrooms where secret families torture poor souls for several days. you are all fodder to the kabalists.