Systemd Just Broke a Million Lines

2.3 MB, assuming it's libsystemd-shared-[version].so, but fair enough.

That's 50 times bigger than my /sbin/init
I use sysvinit

Feels like I'm watching the special olympics tbh.

Somehow OpenRC was easier to manage ( for me ofc ) than the systemd. And gentoo dnscrypt default was worked out-of-box while arch didn't. I also couldn't properly debug that shit from journals on systemd. It was basically voodoo programming.

Pics related.
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek should be a big enough red flag to any pro-systemd faggot still on this board.

He probably got recruited during year 3, possibly 4, during a research project.

Everyone who's not a nigger on this board and has to run an OpenVPN client on his SystemD box will understand what a pain it is to avoid DNS queries leaking to Google and your ISP. On runit/OpenRC it just fucking werks.

Now that's what i call bloat.

Feels good to be part of the sysvinit masterrace

Come one guys.

$du -sh /sbin/runit
644K /sbin/runit

ayy lmao

The "software crisis" is alive and well.

This is what Dijkstra said about it.

Lines of code by OS, including userland
OpenBSD: 3,500,000
TempleOS: 100,000
Urbit: 30,000

Yet you now need a million lines of code to boot a 16 million line kernel.
Linux will become inscrutable to all in time.

While Linux is bloated as fuck, please don't misguide others with the 16M figure. Unless you do make allyesconfig or allmodconfig with all modules loaded, you'll only use a minuscule fraction of these 16M.

This is a decade old meme, though it's became true for some MS product what came up with this first, in one of their their research.
youtube.com/watch?v=eXcFA_JvBOg

Also UEFI is more "bloated" while still almost nobody mention that as a problem.

I used debian for a couple months, and had to go back to slack.
what happened to the days of sysvinit, gnome 2, firefox 3?
why is software getting worse?
I swear debian with pulse would leave my system idling at 60, now its at 40.
I don't really like compiling my own packages, but its the only sane option left (and gnu autotools, qmake, cmake, are all shit).
linux was like Alexandria but its turning into mecca.

Why not just condense it to one really long line

The init system doesn't start the kernel, and most of the million lines are outside the init system.

It's exactly like the critics said, a stealth take over of Linux. This is why you can't believe what anyone says.

Oh sweet summer child have you not been keeping up with systemd?
freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/systemd-boot/

literally nothing. just download those pieces of software and compile them. boom all the sudden its a decade earlier again

but the guy on the screenshot says actually reasonable things

Reasonable things are no match for a four-word rquote summary

It broke much more than just that.

Gentoo is beautiful for this reason.

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 40K Feb 12 2017 /sbin/init

Whatever.
I'm just glad it's so fucking easy to remove it from Debian Stretch nowadays.

I thought less lines of code was better. Are they actively aiming for bloat or what?

Why?

Even Linus has voiced fears about Linux bloat and maintainability (at some time he said that he is terrified that one day there will be a regression and nobody will be able to fix it because of the byzantine nature of the source)

What do you need this for?
> du -sh /sbin/openrc-init20K /sbin/openrc-init

minix :) it works well even on your motherboard in the background as a nice little backdoor (intel me)

alpine linux, minix 3, void linux, vector linux, linux from scratch, ,2013 knppix maybe?

Whoa! Be careful throwing du around, that's expensive nowadays.

More lines are better when you glow in the dark.

Read that as "Systemd Just Broke a Million Times". Didn't strike me as odd.

Alpine is only viable for small embedded systems because most software (more classically graphical software) is a nightmare to get working on alpine. In particular, a lot of packages assume a bash-like shell which is not the case in alpine. There are several other issues related to that.
Minix is decades away from being viable.
Vector is just another name for slack.
LFS is not a distro.
2013 was 5 years ago.
Void qualifies.
So does gentoo.
GuixSD would also qualify but it's a broken piece of shit.

That rule only applies to proprietary software like Windows since Microsoft doesn't need to care about making their code portable or necessarily readable to anybody but their employees

In the free software world, all code has to be human-readable to an extent, and portable, so free software tends to have many more LoC vs proprietary software. Its partially why IBM and Microsoft had their differences in the 90s

Nice bloat faggot
$ du -sh /sbin/openrc-init12K /sbin/openrc-init

That's odd. Shouldn't Debian (and Ubuntu?) have the same problem? They use dash as /bin/sh. Alpine does package bash, just outside the base system, right?

All the system utils needed to boot a system only need a POSIX compatible shell. But certain user programs like awk expect a bash enviroment and all its quirks.

Underrated post

I read it as "Broke a million lines" with the interpretation that one of their changes broke a lot of software.

Look who's talking.
$ du -sh /sbin/init0 /sbin/init

You retard, that's a symbolic link in the place of the init system.

...

install Slackware

It's trash tbh fam. The normal paradigm of a slackware user is that they install the entire install image's worth of packages because dep resolution is not slack-like enough.

All that was needed is a microkernel, or even exokernel like in Minix3 that is used in your intelme trojan botnet integrated in your pc and enabled by default.

Because I found out it is easy to remove systemd from it so I didn't need to use a fork if my only reason for doing so would be getting rid of systemd.
What are other benefits of devuan over debian?

Oh. Hi, Rustfag. I can tell you apart now.

You're like a baby.

$ du -sh /sbin/init-1000G /sbin/init

Anyone tried bedrock linux? Could solve quite a few issues if it works well: get init from any distro you like and software from anywhere else; get an unpatched kernel with heavily patched packages; compile shit from gentoo when you can, get binary packages when you can't; install from a different distro when a package breaks, etc.
This means you can have arch userland packages with debian kernel, drivers and X, and gentoo's openrc. It also means you can use nix or guixsd's reproducible config for everything that works and use something that isn't broken for the parts that aren't broken.

stali,
suckless linux

sta.li/

Typical for large C projects tbh.

What's wrong with you bad goys? systemd is a wonderful improvement and brings many many good things to you're linux experience.
suckless.org/sucks/systemd

can someone add init systems to here?
softwarecrisis.miraheze.org/wiki/Linecount

Right? They should definitely rewrite them in Rust!!

I'm a fellow rustacean, btw :^)

Posts aren't rated here.

ewontfix.com/14/
troubleshooters.com/linux/diy/suckless_init_on_plop.htm
git.suckless.org/sinit/

Away with you, faglord.

...

github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage

News
(Oct 27, 2004) TCCBOOT is slashdotted.
Introduction
TCCBOOT is a boot loader able to compile and boot a Linux kernel directly from its source code.

TCCBOOT is only 138 KB big (uncompressed code) and it can compile and run a typical Linux kernel in less than 15 seconds on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4.
bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html

Do you know what systemd does

Nobody knows for sure

I think it doesn't compile the kernel yet, although TempleOS has something like that

Systemd is this big because they are trying to make Linux do something it was not meant to do. If the kernel wasn't crap, they wouldn't need systemd or anything like it. There would be more functionality with millions less lines of code.

the "1 million" includes documentation, there isn't actually that much C code in the repo.

Can you explain please?

Let's get it clear, we need a microkernel-based OS with declarative package management and easy-understandable init system that does one thing. I'll come up with a name.

like that is already running on your pc in the background with remote access features? (minix3)

That's literally GuixSD with HURD.

guixsd has a huge chunk of systemd copied into it.

also it isn't usable.

I think they're aiming for 6 gorillion lines of code.

Openrc ~15k loc vs systemd ~400k loc. We could collect the loc counts for consolekit and others that got replaced by systemd. I'm sure we will end up with significantly less loc than systemd's mountain of bloat.

Making the thing too big and complicated for a full audit is the actual goal.

That and subsuming more and more of Linux until there's nothing left of it, at which point RedHat will dual license Systemd under the GPL and probably a Solaris/Plan9(old)-type license. Cap this.

And they won't be updating the GPL version ever again after said event

First they came for the init system, then all of bootup (muh fast reboots) and eventually they will release an emacs clone or something along those lines too.

Welp time to switch to OpenBSD.

It's "progress". They can't leave something well enough alone. Everything has to balloon-up to consume all the resources of developer's latest & greatest hardware rig.

What are you on about? They are specifically anti systemd, they use their own init system written in guile called shepherd.

no...

github.com/wingo/elogind

That's logind and back when shepherd was called DMD, no updates for 3 years.
Are you sure this is still used?

Yea it is still used by things like dbus and consolekit.

Well shit, I was wrong.
Time to shame OpenBSD into being a microkernel and putting coolpkg into base.

I got the logo tbh

why do we need binary log again?

Why are we ignoring alternative standard c libraries?

Why do I need python to report its status to init system?

You can make anything sound dumb by explaining it badly.

What don't you like (((progress))) goy?

OPENRC MASTER RACE
$ du -sh /sbin/openrc
44.0K /sbin/openrc

artix linux is my new love

pls halp

at what point does systemd fork and just become it's own operating system?

when linux stops being an insecure joke. oh wait, that's why systemd has so many modules to work around it.

because binary logging is easy to filter and sift through. there is literally nothing stopping you from using syslog transports, but then again the people bitching about journald are the same retards who don't know shit about log management outside of maybe logrotate.

alternatives to what? most everything systemd does is pretty much world class in linux and generally has a much better ui and ux.

you don't need python, but it's helpful because using signals or checking if everyone is dead or not in a cgroup slice is a shitty ass way to tell the init what's going on, especially with complex forking daemons.

What do you mean by this?

linux doesn't have a capability-based security system so it's hard to have a daemonized service like systemd not fall into potential confused deputy problems.

i believe systemd devs made some daemon to mock something up on top of linux. hillariously enough it wasn't added to the systemd git repo because of autismos bitching about a multi bazillion, "bloat" bullshit.

I'm loosely familiar with the capability security system when the GNU Hurd team were evaluating it a few years ago. Do you know much about other kernels with capabilities? Can you tell me about the L4 kernel capabilities.

I only understand it theoretically. I pretty much only deal with linux.

I think freebsd has capsicum for capabilities.
I'd talk more but it's almost 2am here.

Night night sweet puppers

Let's talk dependencies then...

...

logind is systemd though

Runit and Dracut work just fine for me. Not sure I understand where this tool is coming from.

That makes me WANT to use it on some anti-systemd vendetta.

Why don't we make our own init system?
inb4 i'll make the logo
Obviously we would write it in Rust. No unsafe blocks allowed.

I would unironically use it as long as it's stable and has sane defaults, like mounting the EFI variables as read only by default and making you edit the parameters in the bootloader to mount them with write access.

I wanna make the logo.