ITT tankies and anarchists be nice to each other

youre a fucking retard

I didn't really believe when they said that some Marxist posters were cultists, but now I'm seeing the Cult of Personality here.

Constitutional socialist democracy is the only way comrades.

What if i told you that the act of solidarity and cooperation between 'tankies' and anarchists completely destroys any argument against anarchist and libertarian socialists practices thought?

I'd tell you that you're fucking retarded.

not all marxists are like that m8, in fact most MLs ive met are quite critical of stalin to an extent

what if i told you uniting to fight a common enemy is more important than separating because of some stupid ass historical bullshit?

kurds are shit

Those struggles are obviously as relevant today as ever. Anarchists were consistent enemies of communism in the last century and they've shown no signs of stopping thus far. Sorry you've been brainwashed and all, you might want to consider not copying the standard Holla Forums line and think for yourself instead.
I'm a Marxist, that means my views are largely in line with the theory of scientific socialism. I felt pointing their names out was necessary because most "Marxists" here are actually anti-communists. Sorry I bruised your ego.

we totally can unite until we have no more use for anarchists

This

"Anarchists the are biggest enemies of Marxists"

They were purged every single given time for a reason. Anarchism is an unachievable utopia.
By Leninists, by Trots, by Stalinists.

Stupid ideas completely out of touch with reality. Antifa are useful idiots of the big capital like in Germany. Bored youngsters from rich homes who burn off the steam by beating random proles.

can we all agree that this guy goes in the gulag

the world isnt the same as it was during marx's or stalin's times, and capitalism has gotten a lot more powerful since then. only an alliance between anarchists and marxists can successfully destroy capitalism. being ideological dogmatists gets you nowhere

you forgot to use the nazbol flag fucking fascist

Cooperation between two historically and theoretically opposed groups for the common goal of one group is essentially saying that the people are fighting with are correct in their assertions. If an anarchistic group can successfully fight ISIS and protect the gains of the revolution at the same time, while not falling victim to having to do all of that through a state, then what exactly is the tankie argument against them? You are basically saying "ya, lets fight together" while at the same time decrying the system the people you want to fight with have established, a system that is not only functioning fairly well in war time but does so outside of the state apparatus. So then, why be a tankie at all if what you want is right in front of you shooting ISIS in the face?

The people who want to ignore history are typically the ones who have the most answer for. And if it happens over and over and over again, its not stupid or something to be ignored its a pattern that repeats itself.

This is actually worse than being reactionary, punishing our current left for deeds of the past that are in no way relevant form 80-100 years ago. Sins of our ideological forefathers should not be passed to the current left.

absolutely.

this is why libertarians and nazi can successfully cooperate and fight leftists, but we cant do so to fight against them.
the world isnt the fuck same as it was anymore, anarchists and marxists have to unite if they want to survive.
until porkies are removed, the disputes have to be set aside if you want the revolutionary left to be even remotely relevant

There obviously can't be any alliance, number nuts. A given territory can't have a state and be stateless at the same time. Granted, anarchists do have a proven track record of establishing states but even then they just used it to attack a socialist regime. Get a grip on reality man, most people here vastly prefer Makhno and his autocracy to the proletarian Bolshevik party. If they support anti-communism in the past there's no reason to expect any changes in the future.

People like you are the reason that Franco won in Spain.

Problem solved.

what analchilddies were even doing useful in spain other than raping clergy - priests, nuns and monks and then shooting christ statues? srsly

che was a stalinist idiot tankie and personally would shoot any anarchist larper
i swear revisionists should all have been banned

Famrade, how can you be so based?

People like you are what turned an exploding Soviet economy into a stagnating capitalist wreck. I'd almost want to see another market "socialist" revolution just to see you guys kiss more IMF ass again.

They are basically the only reason why Franco didn't win the coup in the first place tbh. CNT-FAI stopped them dead in Madrid.

Keep hatin' :^)

This

Your ideology is retarded but you have a big hearth and good intentions

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

I agree. However, in order to do this Marxists must be willing to embrace there own libertarian tendency's, otherwise they cant be trusted. Ive worked with Marxists in the labor movement, they are all good people but they also know that Marxists arnt doing shit anywhere anymore (And if they are, its all for show, most Marxists ive know have left actual Marxist organizations in favor of anarchists ones due to petty politics and power grabbing withing the organizations) so they get involved with anarchists because they actually are trying to do things.

IF you actually want to work with anarchists, you must recognize that what they are doing is actually legitimate and is working, and if thats the case there is literally no reason to be a tankie. If you had any idea of the history and arguments of why anarchism is supposed to be shit and cant ever work, then you'd know that. But i dont expect tankies to know anything about history, as they are tankies.

My Stalinist Weltanschauung says we work rehabilitation. In Siberia.

There has to be some common project for us to work on. Otherwise we will nitpick each other ideologies.

I'd hate to burst your bubble, but Lenin heavily relied on Anarchists. Some converted to Marxism, some died fighting for Bolsheviks, some switched sides and died fighting against them. Trotsky kinda had a hard-on purging Anarchists, though.

We aren't. Those of us that actually know history. We are somewhat critical of certain practices, because now we have more experience and different circumstances. It's easy to say "purge the Eikhe-Yezhov faction before they get out of hand" or "demote Khrushchev" or "disband the Party after war". Doing it is another thing.

Yeah. I'm very agreeable in that respect.

Argh.

kurds are shitskins who should have perished rather than those poor gayreeks/armenians/assyrians

just look at germany who do you think is biggest islamic state supporters?

Except I still need central planning for industrialization. Otherwise Constitution (as part of Superstructure) will not be worth a damn - basis needs to be changed. If we do not do it, we will follow the road of Venezuela and every other state that stopped moving forward and fell back to Capitalism.

Comrade, we are going to build agrarian socialism, none of your industrial shithole building.

So then form an ML party, get elected to the legislature, and push for central planning.

I'm perfectly willing to work out our ideological differences peacefully, because fighting can only hurt both of us.

I can work with this.

Why don't you want to work out differences before the Revolution?

Probably because that just gives porkies and their useful idiots time to solidify their own position in the system further.

We have all the time in the world to figure our own differences out after the revolution is over.

Because that is going to be an endless debate. No matter what there are always going to be people who are convinced that central planning, market socialism, or anarchism are the best option. These issues can be worked out fairly easily and peacefully after constitutional socialism has been entrenched, but if we don't join forces before that then we will always be locked in perpetual struggle and unable to fight porky.

Oi, hands off retard. This is not a shitposting flag and your meme is ass backwards.

Foreign Intervention.

Explain how that works.

Because I don't see things going somehow better, when we are running low on food and ammo, Capitalists troops are marching towards us and someone stalls the decision-making process.

hey buddy we here in germany have had enough of kurd shits ogay

turkey should take them back

Your OC is truly awful. Any retard knows the EU pays Turkey to house refugees. Making shit pictures in paint changes nothing.

it's not my oc ya dip i saved it from krautchan

this is where most of this board should fuck off too due to being so fucking kc tier

Oh great, so retards have infected KC with cancer, and now they want to kcmod here too. The fact you thought it was worth saving is even worse.

We could find a common ground with minarchism

How is that even possible?

He's probably some flavor of trot and everyone hates them, judging by how often they split they hate themselves as well.

What would stall the decision making process is us fighting with each other before we've triumphed over porky.

I will be nice to them when they don't try to slaughter me. Thanks!

FEL>PCCH

I'm a Leninist.
I believe Stalin Ruined Everything.
I also don't believe anarchism can work without transition.

mutualists are anarchists, so duh.

I dunno, but that ain't a bad idea tbh.

It's not the worst idea and better than shitposting the same arguments at each other.

fuck off

your waifu is shit and a liberal

What's happining here is what happened to Holla Forums.

You fucks just had to have your tankie memes.
Now autists are taking it seriously.

happening* fug

Fuck.

Flag offed.
Plz no bully.

...

...

Sectarian anarchist reporting in. Fight me you fuggin stadists

This basically happened but with refugees from revleft and reddit. I Guarantee that the vast majority of marxists on here are from these two places.

The only reason why this works in rojava is because Tankies have absolutely no authority there.

What's wrong with establishing autonomous Anarchist regions alongside a socialist state?

The problem is that these autonomous regions can threaten the legitimacy of the Socialist State, and perhaps vice versa. There would be constant attempts by both parties to undermine the other, most likely culminating in armed conflict.

I like you Yugo

You seem like you are ready to actually get shit done

this is why freedom requires vigilance.

I wouldnt

Yes.

I believe that in order to defeat capitalism, anarchists and tankies must work together. If we are able to defeat the armies, the reactionaries, and their guns, planes, and bombs TOGETHER. Then I believe that we can co-exist. That being said, a revolution will probably not happen in our lifetime. Or ever if the overpopulation thread is correct about even a quarter of the things they are talking about

You masterfully articulated ideas I've thought about before. Well done.
-
The idea that tankies, libsocs and anarchists can't cooperate and form a solid state together is based on the idea that the three groups have different goals. That's simply not true, unless your goal is "my super specific breed of socialism" and not "socialism, happiness and prosperity". In which case fuck off.

for the record I haven't seen any sectarians among other libertarian marxists

Marxists aren't MLs and MLs aren't Marxists

Ive always said this. Even Holla Forums and Holla Forums have a common cause and many great reasons to work together until the capitalist beast is slain. The election cycle is always so divisive, especially so in America.

I like all this talk about non-sectarianism, but how are we to reconscile the different ideas of leninism and anarchism? Our ideas of how revolution is to be done are entirely different, our ideas of what a post-revolutionary society looks like is entirely different, how is it even possible for us to work together unless on small protests every now and then before any kind of large scale revolutionary action?

Is it really worth it to stick to the anarchist/marxist labels any more and expand to a more general socialist? I don't see this quite being something we can expect us to do as we all have such strong critiques of each other.

Could we meet at the middle ground of libertarian marxism and it's sub-ideologies? I honestly think this is a pretty good idea, but I want to hear what others have to say.

I think that the best solution, rather than trying to reach a compromise that would inevitably satisfy nobody, we should look into essentially carving up territory. Like I said before, a country can be divided into regions, with each one capable of becoming an autonomous anarchist region or rejoining the socialist state via popular vote.

I like you, yugoslav. How are we to expect the antangonisms that existed between anarchists and marxists in every other anarchist/marxist revolution to not happen in this one?

No

But tito was a fascist

You don't, obviously. The disagreements go far deeper than just strategy, the two philosophies are simply 100% incompatible with each other. Our proletarian socialism merely studies what course the revolution is taking and follows it accordingly. Anarchism rejects this and seeks to impose it's own regime, historically in the cases of Bakunin and Makhno by a small group of revolutionaries.

But why is theory what defines all of our actions

Why can we not do what I mentioned in my first post

Wew lad

Do people really take this falseflagging bait seriously here?

Can we not do this either?

What I said has as much to do with theory as practice. Even if there was any such thing as a "middle ground" philosophy we could agree on (there isn't) it wouldn't matter as we are in the dominant position and have no need to make any concessions to you. Before the first European war Marxism was the most broadly popular socialist theory, it will take up this position again. Those who refuse to take part in party politics will simply be ignored by society in favor of those who don't. People don't give a damn about your ramblings for a brighter future, they have immediate problems they need solved. Have fun burning down buildings in the meantime though.

It wasn't bait, most people here just aren't socialists.

Libertarian Socialists were the dominate group, not marxists. Marxism today has been reduced to nothing but socdem organizations or impotent "revolutionary" groups. The only movements of any note libertarian socialist movements.

I don't even need to put forth any sources for this one, it would be like quoting a book to prove grass is green. Every literate person knows you're wrong. Marxism may have been corrupted by various pro-bourgeois elements like Bernstein at the time but it was still largely the dominant socialist theory in the years following Marx's death, just read any text written at the time.

I am glad you've drawn the line between libertarianism and Marxism for me though as everyone else is (rightly) laughing at those who call themselves libertarian Marxists. As soon as we rid ourselves of the anti-Leninist cancer infecting our movement people will be able to more plainly see how totally opposed anarchism and Marxism are. Relevant article below.

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1906/12/x01.htm

They literally had to move the internationale from Europe because they were afraid the Bakunists were going to take over.